I'm sure your mother loved you. I think it is very loving how you stand up for her.

Without hesitation yes? We obviously have two different perceptions. The only thing I know to say is that just because something creates a desired outcome does not always mean its right. The hand of another might have conditioned me to behave in the desired outcome through fear of it but it was love that taught me right from wrong. The hand of another never instilled love and value, the kindness, patience and love of another instilled every value in me. All the best to you.

Star do you think there is a difference between fear defined as love and unconditional love?????

Sherri

Yes I do, the two are not one in the same. Unconditional love is the purest love that knows no bounds, limits, restrictions, or conditions. It is what we came from and will return to and what we must achieve in this life. I believe if one wants to grow in unconditional love and have it within than they must first lose fear. Fear drives love away, seperates us from it, seperates us from ourselves, makes us believe what it not true. I do not believe true love could ever be accomplished through fear. Fear is a condition and love is not. Just my thoughts.

Very well put Star , do you think parenting in fear as opposed to paretning in unconditional love (to the best of your understanding) would create differnt children??To you and I the answer is obvious but for those that it isn't a factor what would you say?I ask you because you are fair in your posts and seem to see both sides alot clearer then i do so if you don't mind answering i'd appreciate it.

Yes. That's exactly why generalizations usually fail. "The same fire that melts the butter hardens the egg."

I was kidding--earlier in this thread you indicated that religion was somehow responsible for planting bad ideas in everyone's mind, including the minds of non-churchgoing drunks. I was applying the same tactic.

Exactly. I was never like this untill I reached about age 17, when I was able to choose my own path and how I wanted to be. My mom hates when I talk about violence in front of her. She has always taught me to treat people like I want them to treat me, and I agree with her, but there's one difference, she's a very sweet person and has a hard time defending herself, I myself will do it with all means necessary. If you try to kill me, I will kill you first, if I am starving to death, and have no food or money, I will steal for it.


You got that damn straight.



If we all evolved from one cell, then it all can keep going back to the very first form of life that had intelligence, what did it learn from? How can one learn from someone else, if that someone had to have learned it from someone else also? There has to be a start to it all correct? What about the first person to start the basics of language? They learned to speak on their own, and if not, then someone down the line had to have taught themselves, because langauge did not always exist.

All that doesn't matter, all I'm trying to say is that we can and do become who we are not only by what our parents teach us. When we reach a certain age, we have the intelligence and ability to forget all of what we learned and be completley different.


In my opinion, our parents don't have much to do with who we are as adults. Some of the greatest parents have kids who become murderers and pedophiles, etc... But I do agree, that when a parent does something very horrible to a child, something that can't be easily forgotten, it will and does have an affect on the child when they are older. And believe me, spanking is not one of those. It taught me right from wrong, and I knew damn well what I wasn't suppose to do.

Zero why does your mom need to defend herself????
Who spanked you then if your mom is non violent???? Something seems off here Zero.....

Why are you advocating for the use of corporal punishment of kids or do you just like talking with me lol???

We often equate fear with love the same hand that hits also hugs imagine the message that sends A child may grow to think anger and hitting is love especially a girl she may find herself in a relationship where the husband beats her and her children.....One must be very sure that spanking won't affect the bigger picture, It is often best to err on the side of compassion and love. A serial killer is taught its not natural......

You think spanking is violent!


Why does she need to defend herself? Well crap man, let's be real. Someone sooner or later will come around who will give you sh**. It's life. Be real, girl.

We are all different and so are children but in my opinion, Yes unconditional love versus fear makes a difference in children. I had a few people spanking me and it was tiny moments of unconditional love by others that made the biggest difference in my life most certainly. Spanking might seem like a small off hand thing in the bigger picture but it is these things that create different people and it is these things that have a ripple effect and change the world.

I would simply tell another to try other ways, seek them out dilligently. Put these methods to work first. These methods might be harder and more time consuming but what is lost if they work? its a big rat race for parents. many parents feel like its not realistic to ponder such things but such things shape the world, they always have. I want the world to stop saying spanking is insignificant in sight of all that is going on. Spanking and every little thing you do is significant. Everything is. Yes, my situation is different. I survived abuse but let's not ponder the line, let's draw the line.....

Bra from your perspective not mine. I love life Zero....so your mom spanked you but is non violent ...Can someone explain this to me...lol


Zero If you look for villians you will find them. its all in your persepective, it creates your life experinces..Trust me on this Zero i've been here awhile....

I already did. But you lack understanding. I told you that spanking is not violent.

Violence is shooting, stabbing, punching, kicking, killing, etc....

And spanking is none of the above.


Are you trying to tell me my mom is violent JUST because she spanked me regardless of how sweet she is? Come on, now. Don't be so damn silly.

Zero spanking a child is up their with pedophilia as far as i'm concerned, you are hitting a child , a little one , a child that has no means to defend himself, its the same as kicking a dog or torturing the cat.. its cruel and to say that it isn't shows you lack iunderstanding...

LOL!!!!!!!!!!


Equal to pedophilia? How sensitive were you as a child? If being spanked would mess you or your kids up as bad as being molested then my God I feel sorry for you when reality checks in.


You aren't hitting them, you're tapping them on their cute little booty.
Same as kicking a dog or tortureing a cat? LOL! Ok, if that wasn't a joke then I'm sorry to laughing... wait no actually I'm not. You are the most sensitive person I've met in my life.

Being spanked doesn't even really hurt. Kicking a dog in the ribs is a total different story. Wouldn't it be more sensical to say spanking a kid is like spanking a dog?

Thankyou star, i stand with you STOP SAYING SPANKING IS NOT VIOLENCE...Ask the child that has been spanked i to see the bigger picture the world will indeed be a better place...

ZERO would you hit an animal???would you?????

Ask the child that has been spanked? Ok, then ask me.

My answer:

It's not violence.


Would I hit a dog? Depends. If you knew anything about how to train a dog, you'd know you have to tap them kind of hard to get them to listen. You have to simulate a "Bite" from another dog. Watch the dog whisperer.

What are you comparing it too?????What were you spanked for, I don't trust your ability to differentiate between what is harmful and what isn't a common quality of spanked kids......
so you weren't resentful at all never once mad or thought it wasn't fair , never wanted to get even???Zero you are scaring me.....


I have a dog and two cats , I have also raised dobermans I never hit them ever, because even a moron knows your dog will eventually turn on you ...just like many humans.....

Well, I think you should look into dog psychology. You don't abuse the dog, you simply simulate a bite, getting them to submit to you as their pack leader. Look up Cesar Millan (sp?). I watch his show almost every day and he works wonders on family pets.




No, when I was spanked the only thing that went through my mind was "Ok, I shouldn't be doing this". Why am I scaring you?

Cesar Millan

Oh for cripes sake Zero are you kidding me is this another one of those times you are f###ing around....i trained dobermans dude do you know what a doberman is.......that guy you are watching is full of .....Boy i hope you don't have a dog....

LOL, I can't believe you. If you'd watch the show I bet you'd be like "Holy sh!!". The guy works wonders. You obviously know nothing about dog psychology.


Am I pissing you off Sheri?


EDIT: By the way, I linked to one of his websites above.

I have 3 dogs. They all listen to me as well. If they are on my bed or another place I do not want them to be, all I say is "Down." and they get down. If I say "Out" they will leave the room.

Dobermans are the most difficult dogs to train and i managed that with no hitting and no milton to mess things up[....hyper has cats big cats (caracal) he would not be following miltons show lol..... I have alittle dog right now i have him becasue he was a biter and wouldn't listen to his old owner they were gonna put him to sleep , i asked them to give me a chance first.from my doberman days i corrected the behavior over a few weeks guess what i never hit my little buddy thats his name and he is the sweetest dog now, his old owner said he had a defect that no one could correct, he was always hitting him , imagine that.Stop hitting an animal knows if it can trust you or not.....

YOU ARE NOT HITTING A FRIGGIN ANIMAL. God, you definitley cannot see a different between abuse and non-abuse. I bet if someone touches your shoulder you call the police, eh?


The "touch" is a firm tap to simulate a "bite". The dog then looks to you as a pack leader, as they do in the wild. They depend on the pack leader for food, but look at them as Athority. They live a better life being treated as a dog, than they do if you pamper them and treat them as a human or child. Dogs are not children, they are dogs. If you take a calm asertive position, your dogs will listen to you. The possabilities are endless. You can teach them anything. You can teach them to walk out of the door AFTER you always, and never before you, you can stop basically any behaviors they may have that needs correction, etc...


I assure you, if you watch this man in action, you'll be amazed.

The guy has over 30 dogs in his yard, 2 pitbulls and other types of dogs, none are violent or disobedient. You'd have to be on crack to call this guy a dog abuser. Dog psychology and human psychology are 2 different things. VERY different. You must treat a dog like a dog.

did you read my posts Zero????????Zero what else establishes the pack leader ......I have no issues i get along with everyone life is a joy for me Zero, i hve never needed to call the police on anyone.Have you ever taken martial arts?????

Martial Arts?! You violent women!

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I just had to do it. I'm acting like you for a bit.

I'm talking about dogs when I said to be the pack leader.




On the serious: I'm very interesting in Martial Arts.

the philosophy behind any martial art is once you know how to fight you no longer fight , becasue you don't need to nor would choose to, you would seek to solve conflict in a non violent manner at least that is what came out of martial arts for me.......Ahimsa the practice of non violence, Do you understand.....

Sorry, you didn't get the point (again.)

What I said was "the same fire that melts the butter hardens the egg." To spell it out, spankings apparently had a dramatically different effect on me and zero than they did on Star and BM. This is to be expected. Human beings are all different--not interchangeable blobs of protein. That is one of the things that makes this world an interesting place to live in.

No I didn't miss the point, spanking did have an affect on you you are spanking children you say it wan't harmful for you but I would question your ability to discern the difference, you have no idea how you would of turned out without spanking that is the problem with your logic often a parent that uses Corporal punishment is becasue of ignorance they know of no other method not becasue its the most effective. You are attempting to convince me that spanking a child adds a flavor to life that just makes it all so butterflys and lollypops, i say spanking maynot fully develop compassion or empathy maybe not???? I think you are trying to pull the wrong leg lol ..part of being a healthy adult is knowing the differnce between things that produce beneficial results and things that don't...I think Wall we have hit a wall....

I trained in martial arts for years...kick boxing ect....and when my kid is old enough she will be going too..so that she wont ever get bullied

AGAIN

Walflower if you are hitting your kids dont be surprised if they wind up hating you in the long run

My dad began spanking and depending on his mood it turned to beating....my brother and I never have forgiven him and till this day my dad regrets what he did...we still cant bring ourselves to forgive regardless...he has 3 grandchildren now and hasnt layed a hand on either of them.....he has tried other methods that seem to work better than hitting/spanking and his grandchildren love and respect him more than we ever did........do what you like but you will be the only one who is sorry...........think of this how would you like to stand and watch someone else hit your kids and hurt them for misbehaving???? you are double prolly tripple their sized for crying out loud...all I am saying it will be on your head in the end and you wont be able to turn back the clock...once you have mellowed out a lil more it will be too late mark my words!!

Another thing ALL parents should think about...anyone of your lil kids could die from a serious accident or something...and there you will be wishing you had never hurt them in any way...I hope that never happens..you are lucky to have your kids but some day one could be gone forever and thats when you are lost without them and wish you had of treated them better.

I did too and my children do now. Its worked with my son in learning patience. They take Tae-kwon-Do like I did. They love it so much they both say they are going to take Kung-Fu after they reach black belts.

I wouldn't mind taking Kung-Fu...I could use some balance.

I took tae-kwon-do for 2 years and loved it much better than kick boxing

My dad was a boxer he is 6 ft3 and build like a brick sh*t house lol he taught us how to box as kids..so BM here was handy with her fists...but I was taught to NEVER EVER start a fight with anyone...but to only use it in self defence..I will be teaching my child the same

And what makes you think I'm not mellow? Your side is the one offering judgment and misdirected passion. Our side is the cheerful one offering reverence for our parents. Whatever other virtues you may claim, I certainly think we have you ladies out-mellowed.

Wall you strolled into this thread , advocating spanking , this is the skeptics side , it can get passionate , the way i define reverence as, in fear of something but you define this as love ....this thread is about examing the effects of spanking on a child ...maybe you have changed your mind??????Its not mellow to hit on kids, you opened yourself for critisism positng on here to begin with...many make this mistake at first lol

Ohh good gawd.....dude you are so on your own

I don't believe you when you say you're looking into the effects spanking has on kids. Why you ask? Because I was a kid who was spanked and you ignore everything I say about it. Instead you try to find reasons to say "Look, you act that way because you were spanked!".

Just because you where a kid that needed spanking and think nothing of it...doesnt mean that all kids will be the same..all kids take it differently

I'm not saying it's ok for all kids, I'm just saying it's not even remotely close to being as bad as Sheri makes it out to be. I've met tons of people who were spanked (almost everyone I know) and none of them were affected in a negative way.

True Wallflower..kids are all different...they react different towards being hit...but when they get older some are not effected and some wind up hating their parents in the long run...it's hit and miss...pardon the pun

How do you know...did you ask them? but yes I would dare say some arent but thats a chance one takes...there are better ways you know...tell you what Zero..if ever the day should come and you become a parent yourself...your mind soon changes and I am not talking about on punishment, what I mean is you see things differently about EVERYTHING in life...it surprises you just how much you look at things...you all of a sudden see just how your own parent felt...being a parent is not an easy job..but some day you will see for yourself

If the woman I marry is ok with not having kids, I won't have any. But if the girl I love wants kids, I'll gladly have kids. Most people either really want kids, or really don't want kids. I'm in between. I don't care either way.


And yes, I did ask them. I talked to many people about spanking.

Zero...in years to come your mind might change...you may grow to want kids of your own..it happens....and who's to say you wont make a great loving father??? huh?? answer that one

I never wanted kids for years..I loved my freedom..I was even considering having my womb due to other troubles of the womb...I thought my mind was totally made up...untill one day my partner mentioned he would love a kid....I still told him NOT A MISSION...2 years later I just woke up and wanted a kid...and thank gawd I made the right choice

So all I am saying is Zero...in years to follow you just might crave your own baby Zero

Oh, no doubt. My mind may change. But as of now I don't care. My mind is always changing =).

Well you are still just a young pup...enjoy your life being free and single as much as you can...cuz once you settle down thats it game over LOL but it's not a bad thing

Zero the most viable point is you have nothing to compare too, you have no reality or reference on how you would of been without spanking, so your 'contibution is pointless, You don't know and we have been pointing that out ot you in many ways, Bec knows Star knows etc etc.......... Comprende??????

And you know how you would have been if you were spanked? Or your kids if they were spanked? Then your contribution is pointless as well.

game over?

supposedly female humans are similar to female black widows, just they enjoy making the death come as slowly and as angonizingly as possible. Ahhh, the male must be quick in his action to excape and live on.

But alas, the true freedom of youth is found in ignorance.

YES hyper...I mean GAME OVER..meaning once you become a parent you are no longer just responcible for you yourself alone...lol you are now responcible for another and remain so for the rest of your days...your freedom is gone


How do you know if she was or wasn't spanked??

I don't, wich is why I'm waiting for her reply. I know for a fact she doesn't whip her kids. Unless she's a hypocrit.