No she wouldn't go on and on about it if she was making it up...she feels so strongly about the whole thing...I have spoken to her lil boy Matty...and he is an awsome not to mention smart kid..he adores his mom...so she must be doing something right

Zero i speak from personal experince, i have been in both shoes, for the sake of privacy I prefer to not share my story on UM. You just have to take my word for it........you are correct I have never nor would i hit my children or my pets or step on bugs or swat flys etc etc......

Never kill an insect?

interesting.

what of lyme disease?
even without transmission,
the thought of a tick burrowing into my skin,
is not a pleasant thought.

what of west nile virus?
some types of mosquitos carry it,
some don't.
Few that can do,
and yet would you risk disease,
to spare a "little fly"?

Protecting oneself is fair play.
But suffering is uncalled for.

Hyper it was a joke lol i was actually gonna put i don't tear the legs off of a ant, i don't go out of my way to harm things if at all possible ....

don't mess with the ants......

Sherri, you tell me to take your word for it. Well then take mine for it. I've been in both shoes as well. As I've gotten older my parents woudln't spank me. At the age of about 13,14 or 15 years old is when they stopped spanking me. And once they stopped, I'd misbehave more. They'd try to sit me down and talk to me, or explain things to me... all I thought was BOOORINNNNG. I'd think to my self "Psh, yeah right, if all I get when misbehaving is this boring talk, then big deal?".

well maybe thats just because you are a delinquent?

I mean, anyone who would say something like "I'd kick my mom in the nuts", is a pretty hardcore micreant in my books.

You got that right lol or no missing wings off of butterflys either lol

Zero you need a group hug UM gives you a group hug LB....


How much were you hit and for what?????They quit at 13 years old so a few years ago??? don't you have a sister???did they hit her too????

They never spanked my sister. And she's a total b!!!!. XD


Go figure, eh?


-pushes you off-

I don't do group hugs.


JMPD, kicking my mom in the nuts is quite fun.

It was a metaphor, you seem angry.......do you work??/do you have plans for your future?College?????

Zero never indicated he would be anything other than a great, loving father. I'm a great, loving father who spanks, and Zero will probably be similar

It's not mellow to take a crap either, but that doesn't mean mellow people don't crap. Pardon the vulgarity, I am simply appalled at how readily you people try to confuse every issue.

No Zero, don't you know their theory is a more important source of information than your life?

well wall, you do know the significance of n=1, don't you?

Oh yeah, I almost forgot.

You can't think for Zero.....Zero is capable of thinking for himself and for all you know...once the time comes Zero may seem things differently...

I agree with you JM.

Zero
Deuteronomy 21
18) If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19) Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20) And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21) And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

JM are you ready to do some Bible justice?

Well I did just get a truck load of stones delivered. I was going to use them for the rock garden, but.....

No, care to enlighten me?

Zero effect and the wall effect J/K.Wall you probably didn't put any thought into the effects of spanking , If a parent is saying I"m a great parent and i hit my children and a parent that has nothig to learn not possible , you are talking to a parent alot of parents on this thread and a few that aren't ...How do you derive worth and value from a system?????

Its actually rare to meet a parent such as yourself one that sys a great father hits their children hmmm.....I have parented for 22 years i learn everyday i grow everyday, I have much to learn... Are you really a parent or you just a freind of Zero's??????

lol

Don't twist what I said. I said, I am a great father and I do spank. But I don't speak in a lot of generalizations such as the one above. And I don't go around evaluating other people's parenting unless their little darlings' conduct is forced upon my attention in some way.

I've not only thought about the effects of spanking, I've felt the effects of spanking. Don't presume you know more about them than I, because I'm a veteran of some good ones.

And I don't go around evaluating other people's parenting unless their little darlings' conduct is forced upon my attention in some way.

Why are you on this thread then Wall????? If you have something to say for the merits and effectiveness of corporal punsishipment lets hear it, so far you have posted its not against the law Okay So??????And that you use it...and because you have said spanking isn't harmful no supporting evidence just your opinion correct?????I asked how do you derive merit and value from corporal punsihment , how are you coming to this conclusion??????

From all the times I spent bent over the couch or mom's lap on the "receiving end" of the issue.

For what it's worth, I do spank my kids, and don't have any plans to stop anytime soon. I'm not religious, I spank because I know it works from my own experiences as a kid and as a parent. And I won't even make the excuse that it's a last resort; if my kids are misbehaving they get one warning. After that they get the punishment they earned by not listening to the warning. If people have a problem with spanking--well, it's a free country and nobody's forcing them to use it, are they?


Wall this is your words.....I was concerned then and am now on your ability to or understanding to differentiate IMO of course, i'm being truthful I don't mince words.... I have posted many studys on the harms you also were insultive If you want I'll get the posts...So My question is why are you posting on this thread becasue it isn't to raise your awareness and any suggestions well you know your posts. You can pull the wool over your eyes all you want you are still within your legal rights to do this for now your parenting will show itself down the road for gond or naught...so if you really have something to say, some real evidence great but if not I'm moving on ....all the best to you Wall

Actually she wasn't twisting anything you did say you where a great father that spanks his kids (poor kids) and hitting is just the same thing...wow I'll bet you are soooo proud of that? Tell me how would you react if someone else took it apon themseolves to SPANK your kids...and spanking dont just mean a soft lil tap..some like to go over the top...so..what would you do? I mean if you so believe in it you may not do anything right?? Or is it just ok for you to hit them and not others..and by others I mean grandparent, aunts, uncles...teachers even??

I so laughed at you trying to tell me you have mellowed out...tell me something..so does this mean you are well over the age of say...40/45..or like my dad when he mellowed out with age..50???...I'm in my early 30's and I dont think I have...cuz I know i have a lot to learn...but maybe you are special?



OHHHHHH I forgot to add...tell me...when you spank..do you see much of a change after the kid has wiped its eyes from the tears?? does this spanking WORK??? Did it work for you as a kid?? If that is so then you must have only had it done a few times.....I mean I find it HARD to believe that your kids never ever everrrrrrrrrrr play up on you again...LOL...its obvious your spanking aint working if you have to KEEP IT UP

How do you know the kid cries when spanked? I wouldn't. I'd just stop the bad behavior and go about doing whatever else.

forget it sherri, you are just wasting your breath. They will continue to beat their kids, and their kids will grow up to beat their own children. The cycle will continue.

JM so many have told me that maybe its time I listened Thankyou for caring

Spank, not beat. Ahhh, forget it. They'll still see a tap on the butt as abuse. Why has humanity become so sensitive?!

Zero i don't even do yelling, firm but not yelling.......Zero you NEEDED to be spanked at 13, 14, 15??????

Sheri, I'm truly sorry that being spanked hurt you so much. But listen, at least I'm not like you, I actualy became who I am today because of being spanked, and it never had a negative impact on me.

Talking never worked for me. If I didn't want to hear it, I'd just go off into a daze and pretend I was listening.

This has gotten a bit much...


How dod you know they don't??? For petes sake my brother as a lil kid used to cry just as my dad took his slipper off...he cried at the thought of it...kids will cry its a fact
SO...you would just STOP eh Zero..wellllllllllllllllllllll alllllrighty then..so you must of only ever been hit 3 maybe 4 times in your life huh?? after all you are more or less claiming it worked............Did it only work for that moment..and soon you where back to playing up again?? my money is on the last part LOL played up as much as you liked...for all I know you prolly still do...teenager can be more of a handful....when I say teenagers I don't mean them all..I am not trying to be ignorant I am just saying is all



Right she is just wasting her breath..after all they well appart from Zero cuz he don't have kids yet but those who do hit their kids...(BTW spanking to me is just another word for hitting whether its on the buttocks or not...smae thing IMO) will continue to do it and i'd dare say wind up regretting it in the long run when their kids turn on them when they are old enough..it happens..not all the time but it still happens...and they will only have themselves to blame...so let them..and then their kids will think it's ok to smack their own later on in life...thank gawd I didn't feel that way


*cough I told ya before too cough*


Beat, spank & hit all the same to me Zero and I don't care what anyone says it still all boils down to lifting your hand and slapping your kid..you can sugar-coat it in any way you like...its still the same...hopefully you wont do it when the time comes.....Do you or have you ever owned a dog?? If so have you hit or kicked your dog?? If not then why hit some lil toddler?? or infant??



AHA so your parents HAVE tried to talk to you and you where too ignorant to listen so you left them one choice to hit you huh?? Zero...tell me something....if you are talking to anyone and giving them advice...how would you feel if they couldn't be bothered to pay attention?? would you just get pissed off at that? It's not easy when you try and talk so someone and they dont listen..so if yuo did that to your parents, the spanking did NOT work..cuz you still showed lack of respect by NOT listening...when you should have

Let justice prevail!

First I want to say this is a very good and interesting topic. And I will admit to not reading all of the back and forth debating simply because at the moment I don't have time but I will go back and read all of this because it is a very good subject. But I would like to give you all a story to think on from my own upbringing.

I was raised by a Jehovah's Witness family. I was taught from a very early age that if I disobey my parents then I am disobeying God and will therefore receive punishment from him as well. That kept me being a very scared child. I remember anytime I stepped out of line asking my parents if God was mad at me. As I got older and began to think for myself, anytime I questioned anything that was told to me from the church I was shunned. They told me I lacked faith and needed to be closer to God. Finally my parents put me in homeschool and put locks on the doors that required a key to open even from the inside so that I was basically locked inside my home. I was also spanked though not to any extreme and it was only used as a last resort. They also stopped spanking me after a certain age when it became unappropriate. Spanking then turned into grounding or taking away certain privelages. When I turned 18 and they no longer had any rights to that form of control, I moved out as quickly as possible and left the church. I haven't gone back since and do have a sort of...avoidance...towards the Christian faith in general. I see it all as a means to control people's actions as my childhood was controlled every step of the way.

Since then I have had to grow up on my own. Having not been allowed to think for myself and having everything controlled, from what I wear to what music I am allowed to like. I was not allowed to go to college as it would take away from my chance to serve God, therefore I am having to work towards that on my own now as well. It is quite difficult to have to learn who you are and what you like in your 20's, when you have your own family to raise.

So having said that, Honestly the spankings, groundings, time outs, etc. were very small aspects of discipline in my childhood compared to the mental and emotional anguish caused from the church teachings. I do not blame my parents for I realise they were doing what they truely believed was best for me. I do blame the church which is nothing but a controlling cult.

As far as how I discipline my own children, I only use spanking as a last resort (and it doesn't work at all on my youngest daughter). I prefer time outs and taking away things like television time or sleeping over at friends houses, etc. as a means of discipline. I think you have to decide what works best for you and for your children. And as far as religion goes, I am personally still searching for my own, and am going to let my children find their own way in life. I refuse to control how they think and perceive things...

I can not remeber if I ever said HI to you....
If not then

Welcome Tengu to the UM Forum.

Heard similar stories before about JW's


We have all had a good laugh at he expense of our local Jehovah's Witnesses, probably even had a good story to tell about personal experiences with the JW's at your door, or even had a good joke to tell " What do you get when you cross a JW with a Hells Angel? A JW that comes to your door and tells you to fu*k off." That is about as much thought that we give to this group, but unfortunately it goes much deeper than that, there are stories of ritual shunning, destroying families, abandoning children and allowing children to die instead of giving a life saving blood transfusion, and the real sad part is that this a religion/cult that was started by a convicted criminal named Charles Taze Russell in 1879. The scary part is that fifty years ago there was fewer than 100,000 Jw's, now there are several million, which makes them the worlds fastest growing cult.

Jehovah's Witnesses

Well said Zan..
Welcome Tegue, I'm sorry to hear of your story I have certainly heard things but I had no idea, Please read this thread there is alot of good info on the effects of what you went through, personal accounts Bec's ma and Star have been very gracious in sharing their storys and how they have turned around and stopped the process of abuse, its a cycle and each can end it , there are many ways to guide a child that donot involve corporal punsihment and in the long run your children will be better for it...


Zero, One word dude DENIAL.......... :ph34r:Aren't you JW too Zero??????or considering joining?????

my favorite funny for the jw's is to ask them to wait a moment, then get a glass of ice water. I throw the water over them, tell them they "are really baptized, now", and that "if they come back, the next time it will be urine." they never come back. Try it, it is not only effective, but a very amusing method of asserting your civil rights!

Gid, very funny, After reading tegues heart felt account I will look on JW's alot differntly take adiffernt approach no not throwing ice water lol.....

Throw water on someone who wears contact lenses and it causes an injury and you can be sued. Times change.
Maybe saving confettie from a shredder would be better.

And take a chance of putting their eye out.........

Just ask them if they have heard the word of Satan lately and then start laughing like a demon.

That gets them everytime

People like Zero like to sugar-coat hitting for spanking

Sheri just leave it..there is no talking to them..its kinna like --> ya know??

She implied that I said spanking is a litmus test for what makes a great father, when I said nothing of the sort. That's twisting my words.



I'm in my early 30s and I didn't say I "mellowed out." I have always been an easy-going person as long as I can remember, and I still am, and I think Zero and I have conducted ourselves on this board in a much more gracious manner than your side has. That's what I said, which you changed to me "mellowing out." It's hard to believe you comprehend the issue when you can't even comprehend my sentences. I'm not writing in Chinese.



This argument can be refuted by substituting any other punishment for "spanking." It could be applied to a parent who uses time out, for example, for for some reason it never is.

1st of all if spanking worked you wouldn't have to keep doing it and..............


Ohh really?? because I understood you when you said...


but before hand you clearly said....



So which is it Wall???? huh? either you have or havent? See thing is like noraml people, they tend to mellow out when they reach the middle age...but you are in your early 30's and think you are..or is that you aren't??

Go ahead wally hit/spank your kids all you can..but remeber each time you do so..and you have to keep doing it..then it's obvious it just aint working

Oppssiee I almost forgot


Really?? How So?? Would it have something to do with the fact you both share the same views? So for you to say the same about me, I would need to believe in hitting my kid??? LOL naw I am a lot stronger..besides Zero may change his mind once the time comes to be a parent...you on the other hand.... do as you please..maybe some day they will tell their teacher at school and thats it for you...don't be surprised if that happens

Have a nice day

OMGOSH in my immature moments i have done that Zan said i was devil worshipper....It does send them running.....................

I don't care what anyone says either. I still don't see spanking as beating. I don't sugar coat it either, I say exactly what it is. Raising your hand and tapping your child on booty. Not beati

This is beating:
Slapping your child across the face.
Punching your child.
Making bruises.
Kicking.
Verbal Abuse.
Hitting hard enough to cause serious pain.


And here you are saying "Tapping a child on the butt is abuse!". That sounds pretty silly from my viewpoint. I actualy laugh out loud literaly when reading this topic.

Sheri, you have just proved to me that you really do not listen to other people's posts. You asked me if I was a JW a million times! And I always answer NO!

I'm a Christian/Diests. Similar to BM but I do believe alot of what the bible said and the stories in it. I believe the stories were possibly exagerated, but actualy did happen in one form or another. There are many things I believe in that are not mentioned in the bible IE: All things are one. We are all connected. My beliefs run deep and don't you ever think you know me. None of you have even touched the tip of the iceberg in understanding who I am.


"An aside": I've had experiences with Jehovah Witnesses. My mom has many friends who are JWs. When she told them that I was questioning some of their beliefs and things about the bible, she told my mom "Well that's good. At least he's questioning things". I've spoken to JW many times and went to their church a few times. None of them act like what I hear about on the internet.

But what I don't get is...if you believe in spanking..if you think it works best...then why would you need to keep doing it??? There is bound to be other methods that would work much better..I know what worked for me once ...humiliation of any kind...I was once humilated in front of my friends for throwing stones...I split a kid wide open....I was slapped accross the legs and dragged into the house in front of my friends...lets put it this way I never did that again....but I am not saying you should humilate your kids..all I said was it worked on me

Do you recall a thread on the bizarre section?? about the woman who had this daughter and the daughters grades where slidding badly, she answred back and was uncontrollable..other punishement didn't work...so she made her daughter stand out in the streets, holding a sign saying - I have bad grades, I dont do what I am told, I need to be taught a lesson!!!!!!!! After that the girls grades got a lot better and she showed more respect towards her mom and other, than she ever did before........now it may have sounded cruel...but heck it worked a treat...so in the long run this girl has done well from it and may thank her mom in the end.....I thought it was a good idea

I don't think i know you the last i read you were considering JW then you changed to you weren't sure then back agian I don't think you know LB but Its good to see you explore...I do read your posts....I do know one hitting you are 18 and have much to learn......