Who said anyone had to keep doing it? If your or Sheri's methods work so well, then doesn't that mean you've only had to do it a few times? Am I correct, or are you being a hypocrit? But ya see, you agree with humiliation(at least a litte, it's obvious by your post), and some see that as bad as spanking. They say it's bad for the child's self Esteem.

Zero a parent guides the life of a child to teenager is full and alot goes on , try to think alittle bigger Zero spanking is a chosen style of parenting with certain results, I mean really how many parents sit down such as Bec's ma and say i have this gift here how will i raise her and go over there childhood and heal aspects of there childhood and seek to change the course of an entire family..who speaks out very candidly about the truth of abuse of spanking for those who don't know..dude she is trying to help you, befriend you,
I really insist you be resepctful of her, it shouldn't be difficult with your upbringing I'm sure your mother taught you to resepect the ladies........

I'm a ladies man. Up untill I fell in love that is. -_-


Please explain to me how I am disrespecting her. By disagreeing with her? That's all I've done.



So your opinion is truth or fact, and mine isn't? And I've lived through being spanked and have experience with it? If you have lived through it also, and you have been affected by it, I'm sorry. But all that shows is it depends on the child. What I HATED was being talked to or my parents trying to discuss my behavior with me. It was too boring and didn't do anything to stop me from doing those behaviors again. All I'd here was "Yadda yadda yadda ya" LOL. But when spanked, I was like "I better stop doing what I just did".

Calling her a hypocrite is disrespectful IMO you can disagree we expect youto disagree who cares if youdisagree Zero but you don't have to insult her to do that.....

Zero you hve nothing of any consistency or length to base a awareness of parenting on, granted you say it didn't harm you, you have no idea what it is like to be raised with love and kindness to be valued and treated as an viable part of the family, your posts say that , you were only a few years ago not hit... I have lived both ways I went from an abusive enviorment to a non abusive unhealthy parenting to healthy ....so has others who have posted...You are just trying to convince us it didn't bug you your upbringing and you know it may be true Zero but that is one thing to say that it didn't affect you but that is rare if not unheard of.....You yourself said you weren't reading anything you know the best way to parent and thats that and i bet anything this is how you were parented my way or the highway , Zero you show us exactly how you wre paretned, a kid of 8 can tell how one is being parented based on the behavior of the kid its not rocket science........You are asking us to agree with things that are absurd.....its almost the same as saying jump off a bridge becasue Zero says so it won't hurt you...

And telling me this is any more respectful than me calling her a hypocrit? Especially when the only thing you know about my child hood was that I was spanked. You're trying to tell me my parents didn't express love? You gosta be kidding me now! I was spoiled(Let me point out that it wasn't too much before you jump on this as well).


And there's nothing wrong with calling someone a hypocrit if they are one. I said IF her methods must be used more than a few times, then she is a hypocrit for asking me why I must use spanking more than once if it works so well.



No I'm not. I'm telling you the truth. It didn't.



Bull crap. You show me where I said "I know the best way of parenting so I'm not reading any of your posts".




So all kids have the same personality and will act the same when having the same parents? No. Not everything a kid does can be blamed on the parents. That's silly. Kids have personalities as well, how dare you try to act like they don't. That saddens me.



No, it's like saying: "Zero, even though you had a great childhood and you like how you were raised, you should hate your childhood and feel deeply hurt becase you were spanked just because Sheri says so."

Why do you want me to tell you my childhood was bad because I was spanked, when that's not the truth at all? It's obvious that's what you want to hear, because I'm telling you the oposite and you seem to dislike that.

Zero its not possible to raise kids the same way as people we grow and change , the oldest complains becasue the parent was so strict the youngest has no concept of a strict parent.... very common. whats different the parents perspective has grown to embrace what she has learned....I constatnly revise my parenting and each child is unique but no one needs to be hit that is poor parenting skills in my opinion or laziness call it whta you will but if you are gonna take the time to have children take the time to understand them.
Its no joke children are the future..i didn't say your parents didn't love you Zero you want to go getting ghetto about this. I said how can you possibly know what organic parenting is and you don't admit it you just don't know...try adding i don'[t know to your vocabulary it will serve you well.....Reread your posts you'll find my memorie is good.....

Umm Zero I can't say my methods work..I haven't had to punish my child as yet...come on she is barely 7 months old...what kind of nut freak would punish a baby??? And at what part makes me become a hypocrit??? do tell Zero?? And when I mentioned hulimation ...I didn't say I agreed its the best way..especially hitting your kids in front of others to see....it may have worked but that dont make it right...gee Zero do you honestley just GLANCE at my posts??

I mentioned the other part about humiliation for the mother who did it to her girl..yes I did work and the girl has done great and achieved better results at school...if push comes to SHOVE Zero..and my girl grows up a lil and does the same and is out of control...then I just might (key word there - might) do the same..but only time will tell...but BM WONT spank or as you like to softly put it...give soft taps on the butt.........hmmm you did call spanking lil taps on the buttucks....well if I where FOR spanking..in order to create an impact on my misbehaved youngster..I would not just softly tap them..it would be a lot harder after all what kid is going to learn a lesson from tiny lil taps...if you are going to do something do it right<<--plz note above I said IF meaning IF I where FOR SPANKING but I AM NOT

Tell us something Zero...did your mom and dad spank you more than once in your childhood??? where you spanked a lot? ohh this should be intresting..do tell

I say I don't know alot of things. I never claimed to know or not know what organic parenting is. All I'm trying to tell you is that spanking is not nearly as bad as you say it is. At least it wasn't for me. And you act like I'm lying when I say that.

Was that directed at me or Sheri?? or both?? you never answered my question Zero in my previous post

Sheri. And what question? You guys miss alot of mine pretty often. No biggy.

EDIT: I never even noticed you posted again. I'll reply later. But firstly, I never said that you thought it was the best way. Just that you agreed with it to some degree. I forgot your child was that young, and no I don't see any reason to punish a child that young. And I ment soft/firm tap. I wouldn't slap hard enough to cause a bruise or anything, now that would be wrong. I wouldn't use a belt either.

I asked you in my previous which you still chose to ignore...how often where you spanked?

And Zero please point out where you have asked me a question..you will find I DID NOT ignore your last post towards me....if you bothered to look you would see I did respond

I was spanked when I found a new bahvior that I wasn't suppose to be doing and wouldn't listen to other methods such as talking with my parents about it... BOOOORING.

I didn't say on this topic BM. I said it is often that you and Sheri in other topics are asked questions and don't answer them. Sheri is famous for this.

It's hard for a man to see it from a mothers point of view...the mother after all did experience giving birth, she did 99.9% of the work to bring a new life into the world....so it's hard for you to know what that's like...but when you see that you yourself have actually created your own lil Zero..you will still be amazed and for all you know you just might have a change of heart once you see and wittness the mirical of birth...don't say you wont cuz you don't know as yet

I used to be FOR spanking and then some...I thought there was no real harm in it...my mind soon changed when I gave birth...what can I say, other than..it happens!!

No, you would just have to demonstrate a familiarity with basic norms of politeness.



They won't need to, as I discuss it with their teachers myself...but nice try.

Well if I don't respond to one of your questions Zero..I don't do it in badness..I like to address all questions...after all if I want you to answer mine, it's only fair I do the same...so sorry if you feel on other threads I have ignored you...I didn't do it intentionally Next time you notice this...please let me know

So ok you where spanked but zero for the 3rd time..how often??

Good job you are not living over here or in the UK..cuz if you told their teachers you spanked or hit your kids in any way at all you would be taken up for it...and the social servies wont listen to..."Ohh but I only give them tiny lil taps" LOL that don't wash with them...if you don't believe me..look it up for yourself

I am polite to those who are polite to me...if you are polite to me I will be polite to you simple as that....for all you know I may wind up agreeing with you on other issues...just not this one...so don't go judging me on this ONE issue

I just told you how often! I don't count how many times.

As many times as I found something new to do that was a bad behavior. They'd try talking to me about it, rarely ever worked, and if it didn't and I did it again, SPANK. And spank = always worked.

Why in the world should someone know or give a damn about organic parenting, whatever that means, if they are perfectly happy having been raised with the, er, inorganic kind? You ever heard the saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it?"

If you had to be spanked a lot Zero then it must not have worked....this is what I am getting at

Actualy no. It did work. If I knew not to do something, it was probably because either 1:

My parents told me before hand

or

2: I tried it and was told not to do it. Did it again and was spanked.

After that, I wouldn't do it again.


I guess I can say that other methods don't work. My parents had to tell me things over and over and over again. Never got into my thick skull.

wallflower got it right. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It's good I'm not living in Fallujah too, but I don't see what point you are making. If I wanted to live in the UK, I'd move.



I haven't been anything but scrupulously polite, although my patience is being tested by the general arrogance, presumption, backhanded insults about our parents, and pseudo-intellectualism that is being offered as "argument." You are being not only impolite (which may be accidental) but, as far as I can tell, deliberately provocative. I don't think much good is coming of this discussion.

Zero i asked you if you had a choice in the way you were parented would you CHOOSE spanking....YOU ACTUALLY said YES......you said you couldn't of been raised better...now Zero forgive me if i'm not buying it......


I agree one day you may have a little Zero and trust me you will make some changes are you telling me one of your I think for myself Zero agrees with everything his parents did???Zero would make no changes ???come on dude you are asking me to swallow alot here...work with me alittle...what did you get hit for??? were you positively reinforced or negatively validated???? weren't you held accountable for your parents need to hit you???? this doens't sound strange to you your parents are blaming your for there need to hit you???and you aren't religious you claimed no religion ...Do you see why i'm not biting at the bit on this....

I said it's a good job you don't like in the UK

Wally - (short for wallflower) ahem...just because you and I don't happen to agree on this issue, does not mean you should go ahead and judge me...if you had bothered to read my previous posts before hand...I did come from an abusive home..my dad not only spanked us but he got carried away...we winded up hating him..and still to this day hold a deep grudge...he says he regrets it now and wont ever lift a hand to his grand kids...in time I may forgive and forget...but I don't want my child growing up hating me...that would hurt.

I can't judge you Wally..I don't know you...and again, just because you don't agree with me on this particualr subject...does not mean you are a bad person either...like I said there could be other issues that you and I may well share the same intrest...but this isn't one of them..and no I don't mean to be ignorant Wally...if I have ..I am going to be the bigger person and say - I am sorry...I am not too big to apologize either...I never have been and never will be

You can continue to bash me all you want but I will stand up for what I believe in

So you where just spanked a few times throughout your childhood and never again since...hmmmm you are one of the 1st I must admit...but your poor mother must not of wanted to do that to you...after all she did try her best....ask your mom when you get a chance if spanking is the right way to go....see what she says

I said the same thing he did...is it really that hard for someone as intelligent as you are to grasp that not everyone is like you? That people aren't all just interchangeable, conditioned blobs of DNA?

How old are your kids Wall??

We don't bash you. That's the point: the hostility is all one-sided. We want you to work out your own issues and your own children in your own way. Yes, we may sometimes see a misbehaving child and say "That kid needs a good spanking" but we pretty much say it to ourselves--we don't go around trying to put obstacles in the way of people who don't spank, either legal or otherwise--we don't implicitly insult your parents. That's why we're not even fighting an even battle. Perhaps we aren't even having the same argument.

3, 6, and 10.

Awww a 3 yr old...don't ya just adore them at that age well ok I know you adore them all but at 3 thats when they do the funniest of things that crack you up
umm you don't spank a lil 3yrs old do you??



Who is WE?? I have found myself way before I had Becky...saying...- "That kid needs a spanking" feck I must have said it a thousand times....but when I gave birth it was different...I lost my 1st kid and was granted another Wlly...so I was SOOO thankful to have her and can't imagine hurting her at all...do you understand where I am coming from??

Gosh Wall i hope you aren't hitting those babys.......a child is a baby for a reason ......Wally i have a quetion why aren't you open to exploring parenting?????I still do I have a 22 year old , 12 and 8 year old all boys . very alive boys too lol... this is no lie I am told constatnly i have the best behaved boys when i tell them i don't do the reward punishment system there mouths drop open doesn' it make you even curious???????

You nailed it right on the head, and this is exactly why I'm going to try and ignore this topic.

I'm going to ask everyone to settle down here before anything gets out of hand. I'd like to take this opportunity to remind you all that everyone has different parenting strategies, and that spaking a child has not yet proven to be detrimental or positive to their growth. It is still considered a matter of personal opinion.

Disinterested that is not exactly accurate it has been for sometime thought to be regarded as harmful to children in the physcological community i have posted material.

Like I said, it's still up for debate. You still need to respect everyone else's opinions on the board about this.

This is the skeptical side it is for skeptical opinions correct??? why becasue i wouldn't stand for hitting a child its disrespcetful to anothers opinion, i'm missing something......

I'm not here to debate the issue with you. I'm telling you that everyone is entitled to their opinion whether or not you agree with it. So please try to be a little more respectful.

While that might seem quite funny, imagine being a child forced to go door to door and talk to strangers to tell them about god and having someone do that to you. I once had a gun pulled on me at a very young age and it can be a quite traumatic experience. These people are doing what they have been brainwashed to do. Sadly most of them don't know any better and think it is what they have to do or they will receive God's wrath.
My family no longer speaks to me. My friends whom I was raised with to be like family to me are no longer allowed to speak to me.
There are much much worse things you can do to a child that don't even involve touching them in the least. I think spanking is really a minor issue if you put it in context.

I respect that, i was asking which post have i been disrespectful and if this is the skeptics side many things are disagreed strongly with, every thread so Please define exactly what your line is so i don't cross it thankyou.

Tengu it is sad the life you led I'm truly sorry to hear the things that happened to you.... Each has to walk there own path, I too came from a very abusive enviorment fortuntley for me i was removed of course i'm not the only one there are several stories on this thread. I take parenting very seriously and a child is a gift.. Its all perspective in the end anyways........

OMG I know how you feel Tengu...ok not from a religious aspect but I decided to have a baby at the age of 30..I have been with my partner for over ten long years....we both worked full time jobs and owned our own home car ect...this was our decision. My Family (appart from my mother) stoped speaking to me for several months and criticized my decision to have a baby all because I was not married. It was hard as I had to sit at home most of the time heavily pregnant and when something went wrong I couldn't go to them

My parents (well my dad mostly) forget that I am big enough and old enough to make my own choices...he forgets that he should be happy as long as I am happy. Guess what else he forgot??? That his own mother was pregnant with him before she got married...I of course threw that at him

Speaking of religion....my sister is what I call a bigot..and I detest bigots....I had Becky baptized in a christian church..I had my reasons.....so she stopped talking to me yet again...and because my mom was happy with it..she stopped speaking to her too..the nasty lil cow Especially when she doesnt go to her own church, so who is she to turn up her nose at me

Tengu..I can't begin to imagine why a mother would totally disown her child..this is way beyond me.....I am sorry you have to go through this...why can't they just be happy for your own choices??

EDIT - Do your family not understand the truma you had, once you had a gun pulled on you? I mean that would totally feck anyone up...what if (god forbid) they had of shot you and you died...do you think your family would blame themselves for making you go door to door in the 1st place??

violence perpetuates violence , spanking is violence therfore it is not the best way to discipline children, i know this first hand and have seen the effects in my own family and others as well

You are right...but I have said this a few times before 9but it was ignored) that people do react differently to spanking or hitting ...I have also said no two kids are the same

It's like this...we along with a few others are against hitting our kids..therefore have debated it...those who do spank..have ALSO debated that our ways dont work either...6 to 1 half a dozen the other, but no harm was done

psychological abuse is just as bad as hitting if not worse, i used to go to a church that told the kids if they didn't go they would go to hell and burn, on top of that they also bribed little children with cookies, such tactics are shamefull

If you think that's bad...my dad and his sisters told me that when they where young if they had of turned up late to church the preist used to slap them and then their parents used to beat them too

If my child was catholic and the same was to happen to her...I don't care who he is man of the cloth or not I would give him what for

And yes you are right...mental abuse can be a lot worse...because cuts and brusies can heal...the mental abuse stays with you

Spanking is not violence when it's done properly. I'm not going to argue the point, those of us who were spanked in a reasonable way understand this, those of you who were not will, apparently, never understand it. I don't really want to continue this unproductive debate, but I couldn't let the fallacious "spanking is violence" statement go unchallenged.

wall,

desensitization is an issue here.

when a child is exposed to something "violent" for the first time, it may well be very frightening. If exposed constantly, the level of violence seen no longer causes any direct visible distress. That level of violence becomes normed. Now a greater of violence will stress the child, but again, if continuously exposed to it, the child becomes normalized to this level.

This is the raging debate in the US over the effects of violence in movies and games.

Spanking is the same. Exposed to it, the child normalizes it.

Non-the-less, any form of hitting is an act of violence, whether or not an individual is normalized to it and thus considers it "nothing".

Umm but I was...and most times got it a lot harder too..therefore I for one DO understand..but although I see where you are coming from..I dont agree with it..but thats just my opinion...

I don't believe it to be right to teach children about only one religion
even if the child is not being told by an adult to believe they will feel odd if they don't
Trust me my parents used bring me to church every sunday till i was fifteen it felt odd and scary when I finnally told them that I did not believe in their god. in fact I feel that is part of the reason why I did leave home when i turned eighteen I simply felt like i did something to my parents by not beliving what they belived in that wasn't the only reason. I guess that when or if i get kids i will sit down with them a tell it's their choice what they are, that what they believe to be true must be true for them. if they ask about a certain religion of coarse i will try to answer with more explaination in my voice than hope. You see true religious freedom can not happen untill the viocous cycle of handing down religion stops.

I was brought up to make my own choice on religion..I wasn't tied to the one kind...I was also taught to respect other faiths for we do not know which one is the true faith...my family are mixed...it works best for us..so when my kid tells me she wants to be IE - Pegan..so be it..it's her choice and if she is happy then so am I

Unlike my father...I will show a lot of support to my child...I will gladly encourrage her and praise her when she has done good...those are the days I look forward to..cuz my dad was forever putting me down and I lacked self confidence within myself..I'll be damned if I let that happen to Becky