Your children are blessed for that. If one has undertaken just the visual research of the implements used in torture of the faithful (and others) during the Medieval Inquisition and the advent of Ad exstirpanda by Pope Innocent, one may better understand how that self same inspiration in godly service could carry over into the domain of corporal punishment of the faithfuls generations of children.

Bec's Ma I am deeply sorry for the abuse you endured as Star you are a beautiful person also who is a great voice in breaking the cycle of abuse and having the courage to admit and share your storys, As star said that is the first step towards change, My heart justs hurts thinking you went through that, you are a fine mother Bec's ma and she is very fortuante to have you not only will you love her you are an expert on forgivenss truly i admire you and Star, gosh i just was treated good and am passing it on( by wonderful grandparents) I can't thankyou enough for your story too and i know it will touch someones heart who maybe wouldn't understand the damage to raise their hand to their child.....

Hehe, Definitly there is structure and 'consistancy" in guiding my 3 boys (22, 12, 8), I talk with them that is it and it is effective, As Micheal and Hyper both said (very good posts they artiiculate much better than i) Starting from the beginning you lay the foundation of love and you will never need to do anything more than talk....Its about the awareness you have of them as children and your role in that meaning I see myself as a guide not superior or all knowing I learn more probably then my kids do...It isn't rocket science......

interesting link IF it seems to be what a religous person thinks paretning would be like without the ways o fthe lord", becasue ther is no truth to the study on the secular side i have a 22 year old raised in non violence of anykind.......and a 12 and 8 year old....


Child abuse has been linked with many severe and intractable psychological and social problems, including borderline personality disorder, dissociative identity disorder, suicidality, substance abuse, sociopathy, and violence (Herman, Perry, & van der Kolk, 1989; Johnson, Cohen, Brown, Smailes, & Bernstein, 1999; Kluft, 1996; National Research Council, 1993). It is also strongly correlated with serious medical illness among adults (Fellitti et al., 1998).
The interpersonal protection model proposes that abused children do not internalize adequate images of protection because their caregivers did not protect them at crucial moments. As a result, they lack a template for developing self-defense behaviors, and this deficit may underlie most if not all of the long-term effects of child abuse. It follows that a core treatment task is to help abuse survivors develop effective internal images of protection.

The vast majority of clinical symptoms associated with abuse survivors correspond to roles in the unsafe constellation ,Anxiety, phobias, hypervigilance, excessive control needs, loneliness, mistrust, feelings of betrayal, and fear of intimacy characterize the unsafe child. Self-injury, suicide, victimization of others, and a grandiose sense of personal evil correspond to the uncontained aggressor. Passivity, difficulty setting limits, disregard for personal safety, and a tendency to be revictimized reflect the inadequate protector. Patients with dissociative identity disorder, a condition linked to severe childhood abuse, demonstrate terrified children, violent persecutors, and confused protectors as their three most common alternate identity states. Depression—a frequent problem among abuse survivors (Bifulco, Moran, Baines, Bunn, & Stanford, 2002; Briere, 1992)

The [physical or sexual abuse] survivor has great difficulty protecting herself in the context of intimate relationships…. The idea of saying no to the emotional demands of a parent, spouse, love, or authority figure may be practically inconceivable. (pp. 111–112)

Abuse survivors tend to see people who challenge their boundaries as dangerous aggressors, even when those people intend simply to make a request, strike a negotiating stance, or express disagreement. If survivors do not feel strong enough to counter effectively, they feel violated. This is especially likely when challengers occupy a social role with greater real or perceived power........

Call me BM if you like LOL
Thank you for understanding Star...The difference between you and I is...if that woman that was married to your dad had of told me the same thing as she told you about your mother...I would have smacked the rotten taste right out of her mouth...how dare she say such horried things...just because she is a christian, does NOT give her the right to say that about someone dead mother....did she think God would reward her for her ignorance?? There is a such thing as respect for the dead...
My own mother after turning christian said the same things about us...she told us if we didn't get saved all of her own kids will go to hell....this didn't go down to well....I am NOT saying ALL christians are like that...only some take it too damn far


Sheri I was only too glad to share my views...I even give money every month to help the NSPCC cruelty to children fund....I hate seeing kids get abuse of any kind
My dad was brave enough to stand up and say IM SORRY I REGRET IT ALL..I ONLY WISH I COULD TURN THE CLOCK BACK I respect that from him....and he too has told me to never lift my hand to Becky...actually he begged me not to and he did the same to my brother...in a way he wants to make it up to us...and he doesn't want us making the same mistakes as he did...who could blame him???

In general though I will say this to anyone that reads it....

Listen up folks...spanking is not the answer...your kids could wind up hating you for it...you don't want that to happen...NO parent does...there are other ways...but the most effective way is showing love and lots of it...my dad shows it to his grandkids and they favour him out of all their relatives...and I do mean ALL....they hate leaving my dad...although I recall back in the day my brother and I would be the opposite and couldnt wait to leave him lol but he has changed...and changed for the best...My neices cry to get back out to him again...that's the kind of relationship every parent wants with their kids...not one that will make their kids grow to hate them

Too busy to read anything.

No, your kid puts his hands over his ears because he doesn't want to listen. That can easily be learned by yourelf. Don't avoid the question like Sheri always does, answer it. It's hypothetical, so let's say it does happen. What do you do? I'm being honest and I'm curious as to what you'd do.

Riiiight, so you know how to have PERFECT little kids that don't do anything considered "really" bad? Not even once? Come on now.



Let's say what I described, is the first bad thing they ever did, therefore, a sign that this behavior needs to be changed. What do you do?


QUIT SKIPPING AROUND THE GOT DAMN QUESTION, LOL.


Let me tell you one thing I believe to be 100% FACT. There is NO ONE way of parenting that works for all kids. Spanking DOES WORK for some kids, and other methods may work for others.

Zero i have never been in that situation, I also said if i was i would of sought out therapy, I would not hit my child or put him in the closet or tape them up or the other methods that were used on you, it would only compound the problem.......I'm sorry Zero i do not condone hitting for any reason, we are talking a child here.....its heinous to think of hitting a child that I'm here to protect and keep safe, the one person this kid learns about life from learns to trust and i hit them I'm afraid I'd be a monster......A childs foundatins are set very early, by the time he reaches kindergarten the stage is set for behavioral issues if he has had corporal punishment somehow some way he will act out.....IMO

yes Zero a coping mechanism for his enviorment something is wrong in this childs home.....

You are severly closed to any one else's opinion on things. And I must note to you, there are many other factors in the way a child acts than what goes on at home, sorry to break the truth to you.


Like I said, no one way of parenting fits all. I know plenty of people who were whipped as a kid, and turned out very very nice and wonderful people. Explain that to me, if according to you, it's so horrible, and makes you a monster.



Another thing, you only speak of what you DON'T do when parenting, you never speak of what you DO do. So, if you REALLY want others to learn a good way of parenting, why not start now. Let me ask you, how do you correct your child when they do something wrong?



From the very first time I could talk and understand words, words never convinced me to do anything. You coud tell me anything you wanted, I wouldn't listen. And must I note, this had nothing to do with the way I was raised, my sister wasn't like this at all. I guess I'm just hard headed. =)

I can not answer since i do not have a child (and thus the history of said child) to say.

Perhaps I should tell you the tale of Electra and Calista to demonstrate exactly how the history is so critical. I see you have an understanding of this to some extent though since you stress how yourself and your sister reacted differently to your parents.

So, after the crispy critter recovery period, did you learn to listen next time someone said; "Don't stick anything in that light socket son!"

Wry humor, gotta love it. Besides it's getting a bit hot in here so I thought a little levity would do a body good.

Mind the voltage

Zero i have to and just on this thread someone asked me just that question and Bec's ma answered it...I say all the time I talk to my kids and my kids don't do things that are 'wrong' I used this style of parenting from the get go, i have truly had no issues that would warrant beating a child, then convincing him he deserved it...appartenly there are those cases as in yours and as i have said in the end you decide how to experince your childhood, will you be spanking your kids too if you choose to be a parent and what 'wrongs' warrant this in your opinion????

Well then why bother to respond if you cant be bothered??


The only reason why a kid would act that way is because the parents let it away with it from the begining and never taught it right from wrong....if and when that day comes, & Becky does this...I will know it's MY FAULT she acted this way ecause I didn't do my job right...that Zero is a FACT.....and since you don't know diddly squat aout eing a parent...why the heck would you try and act as if you know what to do?... Isn't it so easy to sit there and play such an act...gee I found it easy too....before I became a parent...I used to say people should controll their kids by a slap now and then...but when I had one myself my attitude CHANGED.....its a whole new ball game...ohh look ANOTHER FACT .....Any kid will play up on you if you let them away with it and you didn't teach them RESPECT


A bit rich coming from someone that can't be bothered to read the posts



Well said Hyper...now do me a fav and lend your knowledge to the Zero effect

Remember people it's too easy to sit and state what you would do to a child that plays up when you are not a parent and you haven't a clue what it would be like to be one....untill that day comes (if you are lucky enough) thats when you can make such statements

Zero...remember the post you made on seeing the paranormal??? remember that one huh?... NOW who where the only ones that believed you?...think carefully..i'lll ask you again...think who was it that took your side and believed you? and think as to WHY they believed you?....could it be that they too experienced the SAME THING AS YOU?? and thats what made your story all the more UNDERSTANDABLE!!!!!......see what I am getting at here??? well if so it's the exact same thing as being a parent...untill you have walked in those shoes don't pass judgement

That tip was rought to you by BM inc

You give a kid good reason to blame everything they do on their parents, you know that right? I'm saying, what if there were no signs or behaviors to correct, UNTILL THIS VERY MOMENT WHEN THEY START CLOSING THEIR EARS. What would you do?




You do know your kids can think for themselves right? Not everything they do is because of you. To think such a thing is to think you have absolute control over them, and they are without free-will.





I can't be skipping around a question if I never read any question.







I'm not looking at this from a "parent" point of view, I'm looking at it from an even more important view, the child. I was spanked every now and then as a kid, and believe me, it's the best thing I could have gotten. It taught me right from wrong. That method word PERFECTLY for me, and I garuntee it can for other people. Like I said, it depends on the child and situation, not all kids react to the same treatment. That's why this world is so unique. But to go as far as to talk so down on those who spank those kids, it sickens me.

I know i'm going to be a very patient father and i'm going to teach my kids respect, love, dignity but that doesn't make them immune from a spanking. To me spanking will be a very last resort and i'll never use what my dad used (shoes, belts, sticks). It will just be a spank. What disgusts me more is people that put soap in their kids mouths or hot chillis- this is infact dangerous and actually humiliating. To me a smack on the bottom isnt humiliating. Some kids become rebels from outside rebels and sometimes they can be beyong your control- as i mentioned earlier kids have hit their parents and it will not be tolerated. At the end of the day its my choice and its my child- but i dont like people looking in disgust and throwing judgements because its not how THEY work- everyone has different methods in teaching their children. I love seeing people overreact when they watch another kid get spanked like "Oh my God- that child should be taken away!". I've seen it happen- just because it doesnt blend in with their teachings doesnt make it any less right- if you your child misbehaves and you hug him/her- you are ENCOURAGING this behaviour.

Yep, its all a fear tactic in my mind. What better way to keep it surviving?
I was shocked when I read into the churches history. It hasn't been that long for me, I suppose I lived in ignorant bliss back than. But when you really look at the history you can definately see how the traditions of child rearing and such have trickled down.

Thank you very much.
I wanted to tell this story as it happened just recently and fits into your topic. I want people to see the fine line here. My brother and his girlfriend just had a baby.
However she already has two children from a previous marriage. Now the boys get into to trouble but my brother never physically touches them. When they come to visit here with me they have gotten into some mechievious things as boys will do but they on the whole they are great kids. Infact the older boy enjoyed spending time with me cooking and cleaning. (He wants to be a chef) I just love talking with them, they are so talented and smart as well.

Now the boys are very quiet as to their father. Some weeks ago my brother called me in a panic. he said the boys had come home with bruises and they wouldn't tell him where they got the bruises. They finally admitted that they had gotten in trouble over their dad's house and that he had spanked them with a belt. My brother was outraged and he took pictures of the bruises and called the police immediately. When the cop arrived to to the house he refused to take a police report. He said these exact words to my brother, "there ain't nothing wrong with giving kids a good whippin now and than. It isn't against the law for a father to spank his kids with a belt." When my brother told me this I went balistic. I told him him to call that cop back out there and demand a report be taken or we would call the local newspaper. The cop came back out and took the report grudgingly and told my brother perhaps he never spanked kids but this is how you teach them respect and how to be God fearing. respect? They fear their own father so much they don't even want to talk about him. My brother is currently taking him to court to end his ability to see the children unsupervised.

Isn't there something wrong with that picture? Even when you spank a child with a hand you can leave welts. Is this what we want to project to our children? I suppose the belt spankings worked just fine seeing how one of the boys who is only 11 years old has threatened to commit suicide after returning from his father's house. Here are two bright intelligent wonderful kids and they have learned fear before love? The worst part is that the oldest boy already saids he is going to spank his children to show them respect. its very sad to me.

I'm at a loss to understand how in today's world this is acceptable? I've heard people say if you don't spank them they turn out to be spoiled brats. Well my kids have never been spanked and they are far from spoiled. They have their moments but we sit down and talk about it and find where the problem was and what the solution was. My children respect me out of love versus fear and they respect other adults but respect is earned through dilligence not mistreatment. Other parents have accused me of being too lienent and yet their children whom they spank are worse behaved then my own. So I fail to see where the corperal punishment makes any difference in their future mistakes. perhaps they fear getting spanked again but I find that they will make the same mistakes and just lie about them to avoid the spanking. I think if anything the corperal punishment teaches them that violence is a means of gaining one's respect. Just wanted to share that.

Ohh so I have a kid that is taught to love and respect not just it's parents but it's elders and it does so for years then ruuh one fine day out of the blue it takes a hissy fit and goes bunkers and acts like a lil brat...WTF?? ok Zero i'll play along with you even though what you have just said sounds so stupid...if my well behaved child one day comes skipping along home from school lala la la laaa and ohh noo she wont do her homework and when I go to ask her WHY ...she puts on this hissy fit and yellls with the zero effect.."Im not listening na na na" ...i'll say ok fine...don't listen...put the hild into her room...lock the door and window, without their dinner and leave her there for a while...give her time to calm down...then go back up and ask her what was wrong.....and let her talk it out with me to get to the root of this out of the blue behavior......ya know what Zero....I WISH that my parents had of done that with me...instead of spanking all the freaking time...I used to think for once I didn't get spanked....I hung out with those that didn't get spanked and they wernt all that bad I used to envy them.....are you going to tell me that every kid that gets spanked thinks its GREAT??
Tell me Zero where you a happy child? did you go around all bubbly and look forward to every day? Did you show grace and manners to everyone? go on Zero be HONEST
Well thought you would say that why kick a habbit of a life time eh Zero? What makes you think that all kids loved getting spanked?......do you know that a lot of kids that do get spanked think its funny and still misbehave regardless?...ohh but they do..and i'll be you where one of them...a lot of these kids don't know what it is like to have their parents sit them down and talk to them....prove me wrong....if your parents sat you down to talk to you...well Zero you must not of listened to them....it sure shows


It only sickens you cuz you havent had it done to you....all you know is a quick smack and thats it...........See thats all I ever got when I was a kid...smacked..and most times punched......I turned out hating my father...you never bothered to read my post on that cuz you cant comment on it...so you skip the hard parts and move on to you you you all about you....well if slapping some infant makes you feel good....gawd help any kids you have....if you cant think of other ways to discipline them...I feel sorry for them already

Gee ramster how do you know what kind of father you are going to be? Can you see into the future? if so let me know next weeks lotto results and make it snappy
I thought I KNEW it all long before I dremt of becoming a parent...I believed a good slap should keep annoying kids in line...but everything changed once I became a parent..it happenes and will happen to you...when you see your kid come into the world for the 1st time ever...you will be over come with emotions you can't explain...if you dont believe me ASK ANYONE...you attitude towards parenting will CHANGE again ask ANYONE
I wont go hugging my kids for doing wrong...come on I am not that stupid.....if I fail as a parent and my kid grows to misbehave I will show disicipline but I wont slap her into next week...there are other ways....but its MY JOB NOW to make sure I don't send her down that road...so far so good and I hope it stays that way


Tell me this...why is it that when my brother used to spank his two girls all the time...why did they STILL play up on him? come on a lot of you guys think you are experts...Zero??... but when they went out to my dads place and misbehaved a lil with him too but he dealt with it a different way and talked to them.......something none of them where used to....tell me guys, WHY do they PREFER to go out to my dads place and don't want to leave?... and when I go over there myself...they never play up on him...again WHY DO YOU THINK THIS IS??? If my dad tells them to get ready for bed they jump right to it and are happy to do it.....but at home when my brother tells them (the spanking brother)..they go nuts at him...again guys WHY IS THIS?? and I am SERIOUS..care to shed light on that? if you can

Zero

Most parents I know who spank their children have never instilled any other method dilligently. Most parents have spanked their children from a very young age and this is how they teach their children right from wrong. The children and the parents don't even know another way.

Yes you're right all kids are different and thats why you learn who they are and than find resolution. Most parents I know simply spank their children and never once talk to them. They just figure they knew it was wrong already. I was spanked and I can tell you it surely didn't stop me from getting in trouble, it just helped me to lie about it to avoid the spanking.

One thing i've always said is im never going to be like my father...or how my father treated me...I've forgiven him and still love him dearly, he beat me with the belt often, left me in fear, hit me with shoes, a stick- you name it. Only from here and now can i say what kind of father i will be- but i do agree- maybe when i do have my child i will be overcome with love that i wouldnt dare spank him/her- but we will see...From where i stand now- theres an extreme and many parents cross the line with discipline- but i still believe a spanking doesn't do emotional or physical harm to your child. Yet if a child is truely abused, truely himilaited either pysically or emotionally then yes it clearly effects the child- but most kids that just got a "spanking" are fine as adults and infact say they probably deserved it. The thing is as they get older- if you teach your kids and be so sensetive and humble you will notice they will take advantage of this. They'll grow up seeing you as being very lenient and layed back and that they could get away with anything- and if they get caught they'll just get a "talking to"- i know thats how early teens act...I was one myself.





I think kids react differently to each "guardian". Some do co-operate and listen through talk alone and thats fantastic...Yet i've seen problem children, so have you Becs- i bet ya its so hard to control and maintain a problem child. If you can talk to a child- and they listen then they'll never even know of the word spank- but if you talk to a child- they disobey....you talk more...they still disobey...you plead...you beg...you offer candy,toys anything and they STILL disobey then what? Honestly. Some children dont "react" to talk and some parents lose control with how to stop this. No parent wants to hit their child and no parent can truely enjoy it- but Children need to understand you are their parent and their authority and if kind loving words dont change their ways then honestly what the hell will?

This is one of the best topics on this forum yet.
Truly, as I have debated this very thing with my husband. I do not believe in corporal punishment and he does. Since my son is his step-son, he does not take any disciplinary action, but often makes me feel bad because I don't do it like how he was raised.
My methods consist of explaining why the action was wrong. Making my son understand what was wrong, not giving a speech that he wont give a hoot about, but making him see clearly his mistake. Then, I'll remove his favorite things, for a period of time, depending on the wrong-doing. Like taking away the TV in his room, his gameboy, etc.

We caught him lying to us about homework, thus resulting in a very poor report card, his tv came out of the room for weeks, and his homework done every evening, twice. He realised it was his own self that he was punishing.

My son was a handful and a half, as a toddler. When he threw tantrums in a store, instead of giving him the desired toy (like I have seen many parents do) we'd just leave the store.

I've told him "You are stubborn, but you come from me, and I am MORE stubborn, the more you ask for the toy and I have said no, the less I want to give it to you, and believe me, I will not bend" So the tantrum will continue, and parents around me will give me this judgemental look like I am torturing him, but I don't give in. That would defeat the purpose.

I think I've slapped his butt 3 times in his life. In extreme cases of disrespect, after repeating something one too many times and getting the eye-roll, out of pure anger on my part, and I felt so bad and guilty. I apologized to him and told him I was wrong to do so, but explained why I got so mad.

Sometimes I can be at a loss for the right thing to do, and sometimes my husband will say 'He needs his butt whooped!" and I'll feel so distraught, because we don't agree, and I wish I could explain to my husband WHY it is not in me to do it that way.
But so far I think I have done ok, because he is an awesome child, (of course all parents say that) but he's well behaved and my boss's kid (who was here on Friday) made me realise that I've done a good job.
she is 10 and has absolutely no respect, going through employee's personal stuff, telling them to do as she says or '"her daddy will fire you"
and the parent? doesn't even notice...........

I only knew one parent in my life who did not punish her child in any manner at all. She prefered talking and that was it.
Her daughter was run over by a car on her tricycle and killed in the apartment parking lot where it had been explained to her repeatedly she was not supposed to be riding.
Not only by her mother but also by the apartment manager, who spoke more than once to both her and her mother about it.

This is on the other end of the moron scale from the physically abusive in punishment parent.

Star I'm very shocked that the police officer ( god fearing) wouldn't take a report, IMO it would be best if those children did not see the father unsupervised until at which time the father gets some help, we will cringe in horror at a dog being hit but you have person after person on here saying you should hit your child... that is tragic......Good for you star on insisting your brother take a stand , that will go a long way in helping those boys...


Ramster i'm glad to see you are rethinking parenting thankyou for that.....
I would not be intereseted in a man that hit a child as many women nowadays won't either...Ramster you said I wll not be like my father interesting words from a man who didn't think spanking affected him, i would be heart broken if my kids said that, i was raised with great grandparents and i knew I had it good and i all my friends wanted to live at my house, I tested things on occassion, once it was explained to me what i didn't see,also alot of time was spent with me, it was made ery clear that i was a loved and resepected child and in turn i resepcted and adored my grandparents i wanted to live up to their message that i was an incredble person just because, i can't imagine any kid not wanting to be treated with kindness and enjoying there parents thats just b.s. actually preferring to be beat ...
shadow thankyou for sharing your story, your fight is a worthy cause show your hubby the effects of hitting on children, educate him....

Bella that is very sad your friend lost her child even in that i can't see beating her, if mom knew she didn't understand the instructions Mom should of been there or not allowed her to ride around in a dangerous area to begin with, most don't let their children play in the street ya know....


It seems as if many on here think the child guided in love does whatever he wants, that is not the case lol the key thing here is you teach what you want from them, of coure they are rowdy at times, test boundrys ( its a part of growing) At this point my kids resepect me, know they are "safe'with me, trust that i would never harm them or hurt them, many have never parented in this fashion to say its ineffective lol .Your kids become what you model very early and when you have all kinds of issues later on you have only yourself to hold accountable no matter how clever you are at figuring out how to pass the buck....You will get a whole lot more from positive reinforcement then you ever will from negative,yes the behavior stops maybe when a kid is beaten but at what price , the kid hates the parent and in that hatred acts out often in ways that harm themselves, you hit a kid you basically tell them they are valueless, they will reflect that.....

I agree. Aren't childern just small people? You should treat them the way you want to be treated yourself. I know we as adults get out of line sometimes as well.

Bella
I would think in that case it was a matter of supervision although accidents do happen.
I would imagine since the child was riding a tricycle she was small enough for the need to be supervised while playing in any area with cars.

My thoughts exactly Star undrestanding the development of a child helps in parenting also a class will take care of that......or a book if one can't get to a class, i don't agree with these people who wing parenting.......

I agree with Star on that one. A child that is 3 should definetly have supervision.

1st off all Ramster..I am sorry your dad did what he did...and I am sure much like my dad when he used me as a punching bag he now regrets it
You say that kids act differently towards other guardians..well that is true to a certain level...but think about it.....my dad was also abused by his dad, his dad used to split my dad open with a poker, my dad even ran away from home many times...as far as Londo and back...his grandfather Pat..used to beat the living tar out of my dad too....he never reacted differently to either of them both his father and his grandfather...he feared them BOTH.............so you see the reason as to why my two lil neices react differently and do what they are told by my dad is because they where so used to being spanked by my brother a lot...and my brother NEVER sat them down and talked to them...but my dad did.....if my dad had of spanked them in the same way my brother did and my brother even told my dad to do so if they step out of line....the two girls would react the same way to my dad as they do my brother (their dad)

Another thing..my mom very rarely hit us ever...in fact she talked more to us....she did punish us the odd once and a while by making us go to our room and time out...but we respected her a lot more than our dad....we listened to her more so...and soon enough she never had to chastise us because we didn't want to upset her...after all she was too nice to us..so why should we???...We answered our dad back..and he kept hitting us...we lost all respect for him...thats why we played up in the 1st place

Shadow.

I think there are many people if not most in your situation. There are many parents who do not agree on discipline. This is just my personal view but i see it like this; my children are my most important investment in this life. I want them to grow up and help others, and love others, and respect others. My fiancee has no children so it was hard for him coming in. He grew up in a spanking home as well. However we began reading together and realizing for us that we needed to set goals within the discipline but also for rewards and positive encouragement as well.

So we first set realistic goals that we like the children to achieve and we make them a part of that. We do both short term and long term goals. When the goal is reached the children are proud of themselves. They feel they have accomplished something. When the goal is not reached we discuss what we can do to reach it and we try again. This is just one of our methods. It didn't work over night by any means. Sometimes we did use rewards and over time the children just became happy to meet their goals. They even keep little charts that they like to write down stuff for the day. its been fun and sometimes its trial and error of finding what works. But the great part is that as a parent I learned to set my own goals better. They even look at my chart and remark on it... Sometimes when they don't want to talk to me they'll leave me notes saying I really hurt their feelings and their upset.

There are alot of options out there and when you find something that works besides the easy way, it is really rewarding. Kids are going to mess up. I am an adult and I still make mistakes even knowing the consequences. The funny thing is by instilling goals with the children it has taught me to be more responsible in my own life. its a process I tell you and its different for every kid and sometimes it takes every ounce of energy but I want to be able to say, "I did the best I could." Just wanted to share but I know its hard when two people don't agree on what to do. I was in that situation and in some ways I still am so I understand completely.

Right there, you jump to the conclusion that she didn't understand the instructions, instead of thinking that QUITE POSSIBLY the child just didn't want to listen.


This topics are getting old, and I know that all kids react differently to different methods, no one method works. And I know wich method worked for me. Say whatever you must about that. Call my parents horrible, say they can't parent, whatever. I really could care less, lol. I've never met one person in real life who was this apposed to spanking. Hell, most americans agree with spanking(when necessary), and if most americans spank, and it screws you as bad as you claim it does Sheri, then more than half of America should be psychos and suicidal maniacs.

She was not supposed to be there at all and she knew it.
She also knew that all that ever happened to her when she chose to disobey was another talk.
The mom was a moron and the kid was a five year old sneaky disrespectful brat.

I was sad when I heard the kid was killed and considered her mother to blame for it, as did the authorites at first. She was cleared. She was not neglectful, just sucked at raising a kid.

It's still the mothers job to keep her child away from danger...

this topics are getting old..LOL love the grammar fine don't respond...as they say...if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen<--plz note it's just an old saying

the method of beating a kid using corporal punishment never works to raise a healthy whole child, it works to create afraid defensive dysfunctional peopel its no surprise ther are alot of messed up people.....Its not inherently wrong to use corporal measures to raise a child no more than its wrong to go the route of hawaii to get to louisiana,, if you say you want a healthy kid you use methods that raise a healthy kid , its about the destination and in this case you get what you put into it.......You are being defensive and feeling picked on which is interestingly a effect of your kind of parenting its not personal against you read the studys i provided Zero.......


Bella, at three a child would not know the ramifications of the situation she was in i feel the mother didn't either and its unfortuante she learned this the hard way, it makes no sense to me to give a child a book of matches and expect them not to burn themselves....at three, this is a parent who had no parenting skills, this is not the sort of parenting i'm talking about this is the same as the parent who uses spanking as a means to teach something its ignorant uniformed parenting...you are not familiar with organic parenting.....

An excellent example of what a parent is.......Thankyou for your contributions Star

Ok, so what is it? The kid was three or five!?

"The mom was a moron and the kid was a five year old sneaky disrespectful brat."

That is dead now!
That one you are speaking of as if they earned it!? That child you condemn here, long after they suffered for their actions.
I'll pray for you.
And for any child near you.

Exactly, they do that at my son's school and he suggested we do it at home. The only thing that confuses him though is that his father and I share split custody. So sometimes I wonder what goes on at his other home...
But he quickly noticed that when he has a better week with us, we are more easy-going and rewards are plentiful.



exactly right again, we do what we can with what we have.
As for myself, I didn't have much to go on. My childhood is far from a basis to go on. So it's like starting from scratch, with no clue what to do. lol. So trial and error it has been.
But, violence was never a part of it, if something doesn't feel right, I won't do it. And that method of discipline, well. you get the point.

zero,

you are a model for victims defending the justification for their victimization.

I have heard it applied to so many scenarios, and it always echos the same base issues.

Bella dose not know a child for a child, we did not alow my hubby's mom to
to oversee our children unsupervised and it saddens me but she had this sort of mentality, if something went wrong it would be on me becasue i know better and when one knows better they do better.........not my little child.......But this is not to pick on Bella this is to raise awareness that the commitment of parenting isn't to be taken lightly nor should we carry on the traditions of our ancestors we know so much more now, its time to make changes after all these children are the future........

Bella you need help How does a 5 year old take it's mom serious..kids that age are easy lead down the garden path they dont know any different.....where you such the lil saint at the age of 5?? You have clearly showed you know nothing of lil kids..and I can't get over you sitting there all smug calling a dead child names WTF?? If that happened to my child and I heard anyone come out with that in front of me...may god have mercy on their souls and I mean anyone....what happened to that lil girl was tragic

And your reasons would be? I was a victom? Damn, I guess being a victom has become a good thing!



Heh, same reason I needed a spanking. They tried many things. If I knew that I could do bad things and just get a talk if I was caught, I wasn't scared to do it. A talk, hah, big deal.



I think it is those that think that all kids should be taught the same way are the one need a reality check.

only in your case

My point exactly. Some kids actualy respond better to spankings.


Note: No one should ever HIT a child.

Zero you are freaking me out here, Hopefully you will turn it around like Star and Bec's ma .....You are evidence not to hit a kid, my heart goes out to you....

You have no idea do you...this is why you have turned out the way you have...showing arrogance in every post.....I only WISH I had of been talked to...gee Zero you must think in your lil head that ALL kids that get spanked think along the same lines as you and thats that...think again...all parents will tell their kids after a spanking....it will do you the world of good...you will thank me some day....it wont do you any harm...I have heard ALL of that crap before and it don't wash

bella I have to disagree. I never would never let my children ride a tricycle in the street without me walking beside them. I don't care if she spanked the little girl or talked to her the difference still seems a matter of supervision in my mind.

You are basically making a point that all the mother did was talk to her and leads me to believe that the child disobeyed because all the mother did was talk to her. This has nothing to do with it. Most children at the age of 5 do not understand the full dangers of a moving vehicle. It doesn't matter if you talk to them or spank them you need to be with them. That to me is the bottom line. Most 5 year olds are sneaky as you call it, they're kids. my kids were. I don't know the whole story but there is a fine line between sucking as a parent and being neglectful. They are almost one in the same to me.

The fact is that the kid was not at fault. The mother should have been convicted of negligent homicide. It had nothing to do with punishment vs. talking, rather simply neglect. You don't tell a 5 year old not to play in the street and expect them to just robotishly obey. ABC news did a story a year or so ago involving a bunch of kids and guns....these kids, 1st graders I think, were given a very indepth 'discussion' about the danger of guns...What do you do if you find a gun Johnny? Tell a grown-up. That's right Johnny...good boy.....all of these kids 'understood' never, ever play with guns, always tell an adult if you see a gun, etc. Then these same kids were immediately placed in a class room where guns were very easy to find. In mere minutes these kids were all playing with the guns, pointing them at each other, sticking the barrel in their mouths, etc.

The point is: kids don't listen. Kids don't understand. Kids can't be trusted. Kids will absolutely for no apparent reason do the most stupid things that defy any logic. That is because: Kids don't think logically. I.e. Kids don't think.

Spanking is a good way to get a kids attention. As a punishment it isn't a good one.
Hitting is child abuse and should be reported to the authorities. Period.

Tell me joc...are you a parent? and spanking is still hitting... punching and usung something that will really harm a child is completely different alltogether...abuse!!!

It wasn't the childs fault...but what shocked me was there was Bella sitting there calling a dead child names

Spanking (1) (noun)
Beating on buttocks
a beating with the flat of the hand on somebody’s buttocks, given as punishment


It's funny how the ones that are FOR spanking/beating a child are not parents themselves...but think they know best than the real parents who do know what it's like weird

Joc, you would not have guns around, as parents we have to be aware no spanking is gonna guarentee the child doesn't find the gun.....As parents we have to keep things safe for the kids own good, tha mother didn't know any better lets face it i have started a thread and a few times I have said you can't leave parenting to winging it, you should take the time to know about a child,, the development and be prepared to be avaliable and watching them, no child at five should of been playing in traffic, their are parks etc....I think it serves as an example that we know very little about parenting and we should take a lesson, we go to school to learn more about subjects very little about parenting, the one thing that is important......

here's one for all the mothers in the thread:

you have shared quite a bit about your experiences,

now let me ask you your views on verbal "abuse"?

people generalize in their language, which is very damaging in any relationship.

here is an example:
the "mother" (could also be father, older brother, nanny, aunt, uncle.....) could say:
"you stupid little child"
or
"that was a stupid thing you did"

I am sure you can all see the great differences in these statements and the effects on the one hearing them and the relationship.

input?