Forcing children to go to church is just like making them go to school. It installs discipline and good behaviour. Plus, all religions (well, most of them anyways) teach good morals. Sometimes it is bad to let a young child make a decision or question.

How can you compare it with going to school ??

believe it or not i was raised a southern baptist , goin around askin people if they knew if they would be goin to heaven when they died,quoting John 3:16 "for whosoever shall call upon the name of the lord shall be saved" this ws called soul winning.........

Too many people, faith is more important than school Asking them to pick their faith will be like asking them to pick whether or not they want to go to school...

and have you considered why "faith" is so important to many people, frog?

"It installs discipline and good behaviour"
translation: it programs them to function within the parameters of the society, and obey the authorities placed above them.

Sorry frogie I have to disagree with you there....Schooling is far more important than going to church ...a child NEEDS an education..to make a better life for itself...you get futher in life with a career and a good education than you would just dropping all and going to church...faith is not more imortant...you are the 1st person to state this..I havent heard this from anyone in my life before...even those who are religious fully and stongly believe in an education....take PA for example..he has his faith but he is now studdying real hard at uni...I dont think he would give that up

Frog..all I have done was disagree..you say faith I say education..you shared your views I have shared mine

I was just thinking about it more....

If you didn't send your kid to school and had them chose going to church a lot instead...what would they gain from it??? Full knowledge of the bible?? How to become a minister?? thats about it...what else will they know about..reading, writing, maths, english..history ect..they wouldnt have a clue and be made fun of and called dumb all their lives...they also wouldn't be able to get the job they dream of either...how anyone would deny a kid an education is beyond me

I say you do need to start with education just so the child can understand what faith is then let them decide from there. I would hate myself if I forced a cild to do something they didn't see as vital to there own faith if they choose one. I would encourge them to contune learning show them how it could deepen their religous faith to know more about how to do and know things.

I do think it's important for a child to learn all about God...which is why I had my child baptized into a christian church....but I also know that once she goes to school..she will still learn more as they have religious studies at school...but to make a kid pick its faith over school is so wrong

while i do think it is vital to have soom kind of faith you need to learn how to have faith what it means how to keep it or deal with temptation and lets face it real life Money in a word today there are few ways to escape the over bearing dollar. You won't get very far without it unless you know how and to do this you must learn how to survive 9what berries are poisonous?).

I wouldn't make it choose it's not like that I would encourage school while accepting any choice my child would make.

I look forward to my child going to school to see how well she does...but what frogfish doesnt know is that its against the law to keep your child away from school mark my words it sure is...but its not against the law to keep your kid from church...why do you think that is??

We berries are poisonous LOL

I hope no one takes this the wrong way...but those who dont think school is more important...must not have done very well in class and failed a lot..IMO ,--make note its my opinion lol

the words you quoted were fixed
It may be illeagal but i'de rather be arrested then make my child feel guilty like my parents did.

Frog do you think as parent s we need to groom for Religon too????How are the morals of religon good???just asking for clarity frog.....

My parents did chose faith over education. They pulled me out of public school and homeschooled me. And trust me, homeschooling is a joke. I was taken out of school in the 8th grade and put into a homeschool program. I never received an actual highschool diploma and I had a 4.0 grade average in public schools with the ability to go to college with any scholarship I could have wanted if I had kept it up. I lost all of that and was told that I would go to Bethel (where all those lovely magazines are made) and serve my god. All that did for me was insure that I would leave my home as soon as I turned 18 and leave the faith that I was raised in.

Children need the interaction that school provides, the structure, the knowledge of how to properly write an essay and all those other things not to mention a good education. I am not saying it is any more or less important than faith but if faith is shoved down a child's throat they are sure to run the opposite direction. Whereas most children understand the importance of an education as they get older.

School is important at a basic level in order to establish grounds for speech I myself plan to go to college I've got accepted and everything i hope any child i have does the same but will not force them to do anything they don't believe in

I fully understand you...but if you child said no to school...are you telling me you wouldnt find a much easier and nicer approach then just giving up?? Wouldnt you want your kid to do so well???If your kid didn't go to school and learn anything..it would be complete hell for that kid...he/she would get teased for years and the mental abuse would most likely destroy him/her..have you even thought of this? remeber there are ways to encourrage your kid without using force

No I would not give up easily but i'm not going to force them
I would try to tell them that learing is essential to being better at life

and not everybody who doesn't go to school is teased for life.

And doing well is really a personal perspective based on what you Believe to be well

Tenque i homeschool This is my first year and it isn't to isolate or confine my boy from the world i live in a very educational rich area literally everything is at our fingertips...I also have many educators as friends they have been instrumetal in helping me understand the journey, i will home school until high school My boy will have his high school ecxperience, our case is differnt i have a extremely bright child who couldn't get what he deserves our schools suck. and i want to expose him to many philosophys not just one or two...this summer he will take a program on cultural studies I think tolerance and diversity are very important..I agree a child needs to have friends and interaction with the world around him....The socialization for us is no problem(you just have to count it in there are ways I have made it happen) we have so many possibilitys getting quite time is our issue..... I hadn't heard of home school horror storys but I guess they do exist. Now a days many colleges have alternate path ways for home schooled kids and many colleges seek them out don't give up.i know several adults who were home schooled and i can tell you in the best situations you have some amazing people, no one will argue that hands down that home schooling as far as academia is superior to school you have nothing but time and the child is getiing one on one attentiion someone sitting there helping them work out every little thing my son is 8 he is excelling and he was testing in the 98 percent when he attended school.....He was not challenged..I agree school is very important...the people that i know that home schooled have all attended IVY leagues its very common. but I'm in California and there is a home school movement here...

Thanks for the responce its a fair one...

But kids can be cruel...if they knew of a kid that had no schooling they would tease them...when the kid grows up...they would find it harder to get through like...they wont get the jobs they want as employers do require qualifaction...what happens when they need to fill out forms ect...count money..ect...this is why schooling is very important

I have a feeling you will encurrage your child to gain a good education and I think you know a much easier way to do this..that doesnt resemble force of any kind

I agree kids can be cruel and you should go to school
I think we've all learned some valuble lessons I think this will be my last post here
bye

Sheri, this is not the skeptical side of the forum. This is for both sides. Hence Skepticism VS Spirituality. You're still holding onto that opinion? Why would the Admin make a forum that's more devoted to skeptics than believers? Wouldn't that be unfair?

And in my opinion, you're the believer. You believe it's harmful and I don't.

That is fantastic! I really wish my parents had done a bit more research when they decided to homeschool me. I do believe that if done right it can be a very rewarding experience for the child. Unfortunately many just use it as an excuse to not have to get up and take their child to school in the morning....

Thank you so much for your input to this issue you seem wise



Zero thought you where done with this topic? Did you just come back to start? FYI this is the only board that does have a place for the skeptics as well as the believers/religious folk but least you forget that there is also a sister board like it only titled - Religion & Beliefs(no mention of skeptics there) ...now do you call that fair?? As for me I dont have a problem with it

I agree i spent the entire summer before i decided to do this to prepare and understand it. I do think parents are trying to give there kids the best when they decide to home school , i can't see that it would be becasue they wouldn't want to take them to school...But I'll take your word for it....Howa re you doing now???I watched this documentary on the Amish kids did you ever see it???? Religon is sure taken real serious ..way to serious for me.....

I'm doing well. Thanks for asking. It took me a few years of being out on my own to come to terms with my childhood and not hold a grudge against my parents. I am a mother now and I know they were just doing what they thought was best for me. And in some ways I am thankful for my upbringing because it really causes me to see the world in a different light than most people. I am still strugling with where I stand on spiritual matters but at least I have the freedom to explore that on my own. And I know I will never force my children into a belief system or use religion as a way to punish my kids.

No it's not. Skeptics are welcome everywhere on these forums. Even religion and beliefs. They can start their own topics about skeptic beliefs/ideas and the believers aren't allowed to debate because it's not Spirituality VS Skepticism. It's the same deal with both sides.

I'm glad to hear that, thankyou for sharing your story, it is an inspiration to us all and a reminder that we as parents have to be alert and dillegent when it comes to parenting....You said it casued you too see the world in a differnt way a gift your upbringing can you give more detail, i always look for value in anything especially the bad or challenging experinces. its good to see you do the same...

Did you know that the real Texas Chainsaw murderer - Ed Gein was raised by a deep religious mother who forced religion on to him?



Who exactly was Ed Gein and why did he commit such atrocities?
Eddie Gein was the son of Augusta and George Gein. Augusta was a deeply religious woman, who preached the Bible to Eddie and his brother Henry on a daily basis. She warned them about the dangers of loose women, in an effort to keep them from being cast down to hell. She was a strict, hard woman, who never wavered from her own beliefs, which she ingrained into the family. Eddie's father, George, was an alcoholic, and Augusta viewed him as being worthless. She began a grocery business in La Crosse, Wisconsin, and when she had saved enough money she moved the family away from the sin of the city to a farm in Plainfield, Wisconsin. Eddie grew up shy and was ignored by the other kids at school, who saw him as quiet and feminine. If he did try to make friends, his mother scolded him. As a result Eddie turned inward and began to reside in the dark corners of his mind.<-- thats the effects his upbringing had on him...and now they have made movies based on him...the most famous of all is - The Texas Chainsaw Massacre along with Silience Of The Lambs which was just loosely based on his life

He worshipped his mother, and grew upset when his brother Henry criticized her. On May 16, 1944, while fighting a brush fire near the farm, Eddie and Henry split up and went in different directions. After the fire had been extinguished, Eddie grew concerned because his brother had not returned. When police arrived Eddie lead them directly to his "missing" brother Henry, who was lying dead in an area untouched by the fire with bruises on his head. The shy and seemingly harmless Eddie was quickly dismissed as a suspect, and the coroner listed asphyxiation as the cause of death. -crimelibrary.com


PS the funny thing about his story..he never used a chainsaw for his murders...but you know Hollywood they love to jack it up a notch

EDIT - I forgot to post up the link to where I got this info from? Its from an old forum that I used to mod in...
http://www.chasingthefrog.com/reelfaces/texaschainsaw.php

That is really interesting...
I know Micheal Jackson was raised a Jehovah's Witness. And while I don't condone anything he MIGHT have done I will say I can completely understand why he would have issues involving sexual identity and why he would be able to relate better to children. People who are raised in such an environment are not allowed to grow up. At least not to be able to relate to the world around them. Religion to me is a very scary thing...

I can understand too why MJ went off the deep end.........I agree it can be taken to the extreme and man that is way to much for me...........I don't agree with burdening a young child with those scary bible storys (they take them literal) or creep a kid out thinking some entitiy is watching it all the time, as a very young child I often couldn't sleep worrying I had a prayer above my head and "If I lay me down to sleep I pray the lord my soul to keep etc etc scary stuff for a kid.....

How about stop blaming everything someone does on their beliefs?

If we always did that, then every type of belief would look negative. Because people of all faiths and beliefs have done horrible things.

Are you talking to me Zero????? your beleifs become your behavior, its not blame its a fact, what one believes they become.

Not blaming everything only some there is a difference Zero...if you dont like it thats tough its our opinions...like it or not..religion can do either good or bad...it all depends

Atheism can do both good or bad... So?

Zero..everyone does good and bad...thats life


I just posted a horrific topic on how christians where treated..read it it will shock you...thats proof of just how bad people can be