One source of disciplinary practices and beliefs that has rarely been examined is religion. An individual's religious beliefs often provide a guide for human interactions in general and parent–child interactions in particular . Religion has been a source of parenting beliefs in the United States since its Colonial days and in some denominations American Christians are admonished to use the Bible as their most important parenting manual (e.g., Fugate, 1980). Despite the reticence of researchers to study religion as a possible determinant of parenting behavior, parents themselves often readily acknowledge the role played by religious teachings in helping them make child-rearing, and particularly disciplinary, decisions. Indeed, some parents use the wrath of God as a tool for disciplinary control, threatening their children that “God will punish” them for their misbehaviors (Nelsen & Kroliczak, 1984).

Of all parenting behavior, discipline is particularly conducive to the influence of religious teachings, because it is often through discipline that parents teach their children moral and social norms (Hoffman, 1983), issues that typically fall under the province of religion.

Corporal punishment is only one among a range of techniques parents use to punish and discipline their children's misbehaviors. In their attempts to secure compliance, parents reason with, withdraw privileges from, and issue time-outs to their children. Given that parents correct their young children's behavior as often as every 6 to 8 min (Minton et al., 1971) and that corporal punishment is used on average less than once a month with young children (Straus, 1994), corporal punishment constitutes only a small portion of the discipline parents use on a daily basis. The religious difference found for the infrequent behavior of corporal punishment may extend to parents' preferences for the techniques they use on a more regular basis.
We predicted that Conservative Protestant parents' more frequent use of corporal punishment is indicative of a tendency to use power-assertive techniques in general, including yelling at or threatening children, to obtain children's obedience.Two specific dimensions of misbehaviors that may elicit differences among religious groups are the type of misbehavior and whether or not the defiance is escalated. Parents have been found to use discipline techniques differentially for three types of misbehaviors, namely prudential, moral, and social (Catron & Masters, 1993; Gralinski & Kopp, 1993). Prudential transgressionspose a danger or threat to the child, whereas moral transgressionsinvolve harming others, violating the rights of others, or negatively affecting others' welfare. In social transgressions,children fail to act in accordance with their surrounding social system (Smetana, 1997; Tisak & Turiel, 1984; Turiel, 1977). Following from their tendency to use corporal punishment more overall, we expected that parents with a Conservative Protestant affiliation would find all of the misbehaviors as more deserving of corporal punishment than would parents of other religious groups.



The vast majority of U.S. parents use spanking and other forms of physical punishment (Graziano & Namaste, 1990; Straus, 2001). Studies indicate that parents who physically punish their children generally believe that this method of discipline is appropriate, effective, and sometimes necessary (Holden, Coleman, & Schmidt, 1995; Holden, Miller, & Harris, 1999). Concerns have been raised about the use of this discipline method because it has been shown to be associated with a number of behavioral problems and antisocial behaviors in childhood, adolescence, and adulthood (Eron, Huesmann, & Zelli, 1991; Farrington & Hawkins, 1991) and because of its link with physical maltreatment and abuse potential in some families (Chilamkurti & Milner, 1993; Crouch & Behl, 2001; Gershoff, 2002a, 2002b; Straus, 2000).

Adults who have been spanked in childhood are more accepting of the use of corporal punishment



Is there another way to parent........

I have always taught my kids about karma. We discuss spiritual topics alot. I know that parents will brag about their kids alot. I know my childern are not perfect (believe me, I know), but I have been stop in resturants and stores a few times and have gotten positive remarks about their behavior.

So you don't punish then?????

I think spanking is appropriate, when there is a bad behavior issue at that moment(when they're not listening to your warnings) just a quick swat not a beating of course. Some kids need other forms of punishment though like restriction from T.V. or video games, it worked on me.

Ma y I ask what you were hit for and how did it 'work" arty???

They do get punished. They are older now, so grounding is working well. When they were younger I did give my son a swat, JUST enough to scare him. He was about 3 and was running for the busy parking lot. I only did it so he would remember it for a long time. Yes, to this day I feel guilty. He did however scare the begeezies out of me. I guess it was more of a reaction. Fortunately, my daughter saw the whole thing. I don't think I had to correct her for anything the rest of the day.

So you hit your child once??? thankyou for sharing that....

I gave him a swat on his diapered butt. It wan't hard at all, but both of our feelings were hurt. He is almost 11 now and he still remembers. We have discuss occasionally through the years. I think in the long run he and I both learned a lesson and I think we are closer because of it.

Nova, In your opinion can you parent without punishing and can we as a humanity evolve to that??What is your thoughts on that?

For getting too rowdy with my bros in the house. I see a quick spanking like a mother lioness snapping at her cubs briefly to get their attention, when she's in no mood for disruptions. Its about respect, not fear of the mother but fear of her wrath.

My parents used corporal punishment, but my father preferred to instead deal with respect. i was taught from about 5 that respect is earned, and as such i had to earn it. silent treatment being the abscence of all respect, and i received alot of lectures on what it takes to be a man. please, this isn't as bad as it sounds, because it taught me to behave, and respect my father, not because he was telling me to, but because of the actions i witnessed perform to secure me a childhood. these lessons treated me like a young adult, and as such i am the man you see today. He was taught by his father, and i will teach my child in the same way. i wont punish with spanking, but i will teach him/her to respect others.

Arty so your mom used corporal punishment out of iimpatient, will you be doing the same as a parent?

I think everyone needs to be corrected sometimes. Don't we all get out of line once in a while. If our friends and loved ones do not correct us, doesn't karma?

I think that disipline depends on the child and the parent. Childern will learn from their environment. (tv, movies, everywhere they go) I think too many parents need to spend more time with their childern. Like growing a garden, playing outside, camping, etc.

I'm not sure about a time when disipline won't be necessary, I think that adults need to come to a point where they do not need to be disiplined so the childern can learn from them. Just a thought, good topic.

I have found that if I treat my kids resepectfully they treat me the same, i have no problem there, i have 3 boys, talk about rowdy at times, That is boys I have provided outlets for there energy, hitting just seems extreme......Glacies how will you teach your child resepct????

Yes. I love my mother deeply. We have a close relationship, I can talk to her about anything.
Kids need to respect their parents, those occasional spankings taught me to be more respectful, especially at perticular moments. I'm not at all resentful, not an itsy bit.

3 boys? I'm sure your patience are tested at times. I am becoming more of a believer in positive energy. It may sound extreme to some, but i have been experimenting with sending positive energies. I read about the water crystals and positive thoughts. I wanted to do my own experiment with water crystals and a microscope, I decided to try it with just sending positive thoughts to people.

Good points Nova, spending time with a child has served me very well, a bond grows and a freindship, I don't think of myself as my childrens disciplinarian, i think of my child as sort of their life coach, for lack of a better word at this moment, i know that I am the the world through there eyes, I also know they are gonna mimic me literally......I love the garden analogy, what does it take to make a garden grow?? care for it and it will care for you literally, a child is no different IMO......I actually do think we are growing in respects to paretning my generation most every child was beaten on grounded, ignored, love with held verbally abused, now we are not so sure it is the best way to parent.....

simple. to be a man, or woman, you need to have respect, respect for yourself, and respect for others. when you misbehave, or disrespect you lose both, and that is what i will stress. how though? I helped to watch and rangle my youngest brother, and i found (maybe it's different for your own child) that honestly talking to him, calming him down, and talking about the argument worked well. though i haven't had to deal with a full out sugar induced super tantrum, i think i'd like to abstain from corporal punishment.

Nova , truthfully rarely is my patience tested... i love your ideas i think we will ahve more of this organic parenting, i was once like you and started to take classess and try out different things and i have found positive methods make positive kids and a happy household, the kindest thing people say to me is their is tons of love in my home...so on the karma idea you allow life to give its consequences, it alwsy dose doesn't it, Often i think parents get to impatient try to force unhealthy consequesnces...I allow life to help me also.....i'd say your parenting organically.....

My stepmother and grandparents were like this. Of course in the case of my stepmother it turned into abuse. My grandparents were "old fashioned Christians" as they say. They found nothing wrong with a good spanking. Sometimes they would pull your pants down in front of everyone and others you might get back handed in the face.

Same thing with my step mother except the spankings led to punches, and than throwing things at us and than hot food on our heads, etc... She said she was teaching us and did because she loved us and did it to bring us up in the way of the lord. Although this was an extreme case I find a pattern. You see the people who abused me and were spanking me were themselves abused.

Than as an adult I found that everyone I knew at church gave their kids a "good whippin" from time to time as they put it. The preacher even did a sermon on it and found it to be in the way of the Lord to give spankings. But you see I couldn't do it. I could not tell my children I loved them and hit them. I could not tell my kids I was teaching them by inflicting actual physical pain.

As for the bible and taking up the rod....this was done thousands of years ago when children were slaves and so were women. As we now know children are people too.
My children are not my property to do with what I please they are gifts of life. They are human beings with feelings and if we are to treat others how we want to be treated than do we also want to be beaten when we make mistakes? Does it give someone else who is wiser the right to take up the rod against us? I never learned a single thing from being spanked except fear. My children get into trouble but I found other measures more worthy of a human being and you know what? They aren't afraid of me. They tell me everything without fear that I will physically hurt them. They trust that I will not hurt them and we have a great and wonderful relationship beyond words.

I do not see the need for hitting.

Well we as parnts determine if they have sugar or not....Awesome in respecting yourself you will respect all others, Kids so respond to positive reinforcement it makes paretning a joy, my motto why do i want to stress myself out whta purpose would that serve???I try to keep things natural....I also think if we model self resepct a child will emulate it.....

I'm glad for you. I think that child-parent relationships are sometimes out-of-whack. I love my mamma too. She has really always been there for me, and I hope that I can live up to her as a mom for my kids.

I would just like to add that all kids are different and what works well with some doesn't work well with others.

The question is: what are we raising our kids for? The answer is: to become adults in the real world. In the real world there are consequences for not following the rules. Children need to understand that there are consequences for inappropriate behaviour...but the consequences need to fit the behaviour. Some children do well with having things explained rationally...others don't. If the child listens to reason and accepts it well...that's enough. But some children are more headstrong than others. My personal opinion is that spanking is usually an ineffective consequence.

Star thankyou for sharing your story i read it with tears rolling down my cheeks Gosh you have turned out to be a beautiful person Many children of the abuse you had have become our leading voices on the end of abusing, i agree many who abused were abused themselves, maybe somewhere someone will read your story and re evaluate thier parenting ideas.... I have never hit or punished or shunned or ignored or took away things or threatened them or verbally assaulted them, they enhance my life and are gifts , I am touched by your heart felt post......

Sheri, I know you know exactly where I stand on this topic.

There is no justifiable reason to resort to physical punishment or some type of intimidation of a child, an adolescent, or a teen. If you have been a successful parent and socialized your child then your words and the way in which you articulate them will be more than efficient.

Wow joc i think that is a good point . What are we raising our children for??? To have the best possible life experince possible , to walk in happiness and love of life, i actually asked myself this and still do often just check in from time to time.....To kknow they are a viable part of the whole to beneifit themselves and humanity .......

Thank you. I'm teary myself, it still hurts me deeply. I suppose that is why I am very heart felt about ths subject. I hope people that read this keep in mind that there are many books out there that offer alternatives and they WORK!

I read a book about giving your children choices when ever you can. of course certain things like wearing your seat belt you must do but giving them choices instead of knit picking them to death and it worked with my kids. I was pretty amazed with that adjustment as well. There is info out there....I just wish everyone would try instead of simply saying nothing else works before they try. Spanking is easy being dilligent in others ways can be a journey but well worth it. Thank you for the post.

Thankyou Micheal, yes i know we stand united on this important topic, It sounds so easy the way you state it and i can tell you first hand it is...there is no need to punish no need at all.....

I don't think of myself as a "parent" either. I am also cheif human to 5 cats (my 4 legged beasts). Thanks for the story Star, you really are a remarkable person.

Star as you said there is plent of alternatives i was looking or them once and they work just s you said, so many resources, I felt as a parent it was my responsibility to research and understand the role i was taking on and have an objective , i felt it wasn't somehting i would just wing it or follow the 'popular method, i have over the years asked for expert advice too, its a work in progress parenting and i have found being flexable and open and natural has helped alot, ....I definitly ruled out religon as a guide to parenting I felt it would impede and cripple my children.....make the life experince very difficult and hard when it didn't have to be.....

I think if people would think of their childern other than pets and pay more attention to them that your world would be a little sweeter!!

I was spanked as a kid, I'm fine, and I actualy know that this is what shaped me to be who I am and know right from wrong. I love who I am, and I wouldn't have wished to be punished any other way. I was the type of kid that needed a spanking, I never gave into "rewards" or "talking" or "timeouts", or anything like that.

I was spanked, I came out perfectly fine and love who I am. End of story[for me]. I don't need any statistics to tell me any differently.



A question for all who disagree with spanking kids. What do you do if your kid is breaking things in the house, holds his ears closed and doesn't listen when you talk to him?

It makes mad when I see people dragging their kids everywhere they want to go and doing all the things they what to do, because they are the adult and they said so. Why can't parents spend more time with their kids?

My best friend used to say the same things just like you Zero, she had a very abusive home life she committed suicide 4 years ago she was 4 months pregnant she was terrified she would treat her child the same way couldn't bear the thought of it...i tryed to get her to get help she had fears of others so bad she couldn't do it, she was extremely paranoid and I'd say she had a similar child hood to you...Of course there are exceptions, I don't know if you read Strs story but she has turned it around ....namste sheri'

ther definitly has to be a balance i agree

i concur, mkl.



a house is built brick by brick, it does not just appear completed.

a child does not just decide to go about smashing everything in a house on day. an attentive parent will identify behaviours that need correction when they first appear and thus such scenarios like you describe do not happen. You only face major problems if you are in the habit of neglecting things until they become too big to ignore.

Don't kids have an opinion too? Maybe parents should listen, they may learn something as well. I know I have. Anyways, kids grow up way too fast and there are no "do overs".

Sorry y'all I got some strong opinions when it comes to parenting.

thankyou hyper, this is fact, if a child is throwing tantrums the household and the people in it have contributed......i

Don't be sorry nova so do i and this is what this side is for, if we don't change parenting them who will????We start by discussing and go from there.....

Research shows that no matter what system you use, consistency is the most important thing. Spanking is effective and does work, but it doesn't with many families because the child isn't aware of what is a spankable offense or if every punishment is delievered through spanking. Likewise, there are non-spankers whose children walk all over them. The research about the history of corporal punishment is interesting, but in the end, effectiveness is determined by the adults in the child's life.

good point.

well said

Works to do what sublime???That is the question how effective is spanking in growing healthy thriving adults..... is there another way???

This is an interesting table on the subject. Contrasting the secular and religious parenting styles: Link


I remember the Biblical passage of Proverbs, Chapter 22 verse 6:
"Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it."

That coupled with 1st Corinthians Chapter 13, verse 11, "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." , communicated to me early on that a parent does their best to raise the child they first promised to Shepard through life and to the age of accountability. And when that experience comes to bear and the child is grown and able to make their own way and reflect upon the examples rendered by the guides entrusted to that childhood, they will take that which was given them through the agency of that parenting and hold to that which honors them as loving creations. And if they are blessed they will know,through the experience of growing up, or through their own discernment, that if one loves someone (Be they an ethereal embodiment (god) or mortal) they need not abuse them to prove it nor instill fear to engender respect.

Another intresting topic from the founder of the Berri Clan LOL

I have read this entire topic and weighed up everyones thoughts on the matter...you all give good responces IMO Before I give my views, please note I am looking at things from BOTH angles...because BOTH give good points and BM can't be bias


Thats great Arty....see this is a fine example of a guy that has been spanked and yet still grew to love and respect his mom and others around him...so in this case he learned from it and by the looks of it...it hasn't done him any harm and by reading his posts and seeing what kind of guy he really is...he doesn't seem to be angry all the time, he doesn't go out of his way to hunt for a fight with anyone...he seems to love life and will always hold deep respect for him dear mother


This is understandable Glacies, especially growing up in a military household....indeed your father is correct, respect needs to be earned.
Since you turned out the fun loving guy in the end of it all and by reading how you handle even the most hetic issues on here and even in a formal debate, it looks to me that you certainly know the meaning of RESPECT for others and for yourself. You too are much like Arty..you are fun loving and kind to others and I am sure you also love and respect your parents just in the same way they do you



Stargazer girl I so understand where you are coming from....I too was spanked but most times my dad went OTT and really hurt me and my brother (he didn't hurt my lil sister she was daddys lil girl) he left marks on us....we used to have to sit in the bath and bathe our wounds, I can recall my dad lashing out and hitting hard sometimes with his fist and when we couldn't pick ourselves up again...we would get it all the more as he used to think we where just pretending...but for petes sake we where just lil kids and my dad is 6ft3 and built like a tank how on earth where we supposed to get up after a few of his punches???
Gee this is hard for me to write so bare with me I need a breather for a sec!!!

The beatings didn't make us respect him...they made us hate him...even the spanking didn't do much to us either...we just grew to hate him for what he has done....I used to DREAD coming home from school, incase he was there waiting to get at me for goodness knows what....

At 6 or 7 I cant recall all I know is I used to tell my teacher I was too afraid to go home and could she just gimme detention or something...I even told the teacher I wanted to die and begged her not to say anything, incase he got me again

Now that he has grandkids of his own..he has mellowed out big time...my brother and I saw a HUGE change in him...when the grandkids misbehaved towards my dad, my dad was so nice and just had a talk to them, soon all was great again.
When we asked him how come he don't do on to them as he used to do on to us????....he told us that he REGRETS hurting us, he hates himself for what he did...even though we still turned out great...he still regrets it...............


Remember my younger sister I mentioned earlier, who didn't get hit at all hardly in fact because she was his lil blue eyed girl...she is the ONLY one out of the three of us that to this very day shows both my mom and my dad DISRESPECT and she is rather nasty and ignorant at times with them and us

My dad has learnt from his mistakes and my brother and I have learnt from his mistakes too...I sure as heck WON'T hit my kids like that at all...I dont want them fearing me and hating me


Zero you are just another example as to what a spanking can do..and you say you have turned out fine..I am not going to argue with that

But some day if you are lucky enough, you will have kids of your own...and then a whole new zero effect will be born (meaning your attitude) as it's hard for you to imagine being a parent when you arent one yourself....after all I had no clue before I became one...it's amazing how becoming one totally changes you....so when your kid puts his hands over his ears and says he wont listen to you....that would be because you havent taught him respect from the beginning...

As for me I can't imagine hitting my kid...but like Sheri I will do my best and treat her with love and understanding and see how it works, cuz when you set a kid down and talk to them and explain things to them ...they understand you more and they would the back of your hand or your fist

I remember this verse I posted just yesterday in a different thread:

Deuteronomy 21
20) And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21) And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Sheri how old are your boys?
How do you teach them the difference between right and wrong.
How do you discipline them?
Just curious

Sheri has told us she has never had to discipline them....ever

Becky's mom

Thank you for sharing that. It touched my heart truly. But look how you turned out. Just in reading many of your posts I can see how much love is in your heart. How sincere you are. Your little girl is lucky to have you.

This is a great thing that your father came to terms with what he did. It doesn't cancel out what he did but it is a beginning and a step to real love. I believe you will break the cycle. I believe you will go the distance.....you have seen the affects and felt them and once you have you can make one of two choices. Either you can continue or you can say enough is enough. Children do not come with manuals its true but are we to take the mistakes of our parents before us and keep putting them into action?

My grandparents never beat us but they spanked the crap out of us and when that didn't work they back handed us. I still remember the humilation and I grew to hate them. I never got along with them until my adulthood. I had a conversation one day with my grandmother in which she told me the things her mother did to her and I finally understood that she was caught in the cycle and it was acceptable in those days.

My father never had remorse for what he and his wife did to us. never once apologized. You what hurt the worst though? The fact that she told us our mother went to hell because she was a Jew. I let that fact slip away until my daughter came home one day and asked if my mother was in hell because she wasn't saved. The punishment religion inflicts not only physically for children but mentally is beyond comprehension. I cannot imagine how children go through life thinking this and it is acceptable and welcome.

I just can't comprehend telling my children God loves them and in the same breath saying but.....if you don't believe, if you don't follow his rules it will be an eternity of hate, burning and punishment beyond the most horrible thing you can ever imagine. My siblings and I haven't seen or spoken to my father in ten years. But now that we are grown up and have children of our own we have broken the cycle. Okay I'm just babbling now. Hang in there give you daughter alot of hugs and kisses and attention and you'll see it makes all the difference in the world. I think there needs to be more love and patience versus spankings and such.