There are drugs used to prevent scarlet fever. A kind of antibiotic injected into the skin. Without that....there is no cure.

Even though the Pertussis vaccine causes damage, thousands more would die without it. Whooping cough is a serious disease.

Frog this is the generic arguement used to justify injecting dangerous drugs into children, no truth to it look into it. the only reported cases of whooping cough are as a result of the vaccination...many vaccinations were created after the disease was no longer a threat.

You expect any right-minded person to believe this propaganda? Talk to any proffessor of well-educated person, and you will see what I mean.

Frog , Mercury has been linked with alzheimers ( It is no longer used as a preservative in the vaccine its very clear to me that you beleive in them which is your right, not every doctor takes your position ..How well educated is one who refuses to look past ones nose.. many doctors are speaking out against vaccinations, its not rocket science its the responsibility of any parent to make informed decisions..There are few studys on the risks or non risks of vaccinations, I'm not willing to take that risk there are alot of storys i myself had a personal experince with vaccinations ...Few doctors would tout the wonders of vaccinations, many agree.....if that wasn't he case no one would be asked to sign a waver its also big money....

Many people have allergic reactions...But vaccines save millions of lives every year...especially the elderly and young. Vaccines strengthen the immune system by creating more antibodies. This fightis of diseases like Hepatitus, Tetanus, Influenza, and others.

frog alhzeimers or MS,Aids, autism, retardation, learning disabilitys, life lond allergy issues are not allergic reactions I'd want as a side effect also so many things are linked to vaccinations , but whatever you see fit for yourself has nothing to do with me....so many things have no cures I can tell I'm talking to someone that has no knowlege on the subject...

None of those have been linked to vaccinations. MS is myelin scarring, nothing to do with vaccinations. Autism is a brain injury. Learning disabilities are all genetic mutations. Nothing whatsoever to do with vaccinations.


Ha! I have no knowledge on this subject?!? Naievity will be your downfall. I can see you are resulting to false claims. You have never been to med school. You do not have parents who are in the medical field. You have never personally done any work in the medical field. Why should an educated person like me listen to you. You clearly do not know what you are talking about. You link Alzheimer's to vaccinations, when it is in fact to correlation. I would leave the medical work to the doctors if I were you. They are more educated in that field.

Frog even the layperson knows that you do not know of which you speak, Vaccines, all vaccines, are immune suppressing; that is they depress our immune functions. When we depress the immune sytem its a trade off and in this case of vaccinations we are trading our immune sytem for some pretty serious diseases..They don't prevent anything that is very obvious year after year when people run for their flu shots against the next killer flu.....the best defense for anything is a killer immune system put time in that nutrition excersice.......

Vaccinations are politically motivated non-science, whose users are often interested in injecting lots of vaccines, the concerns aren't generally about the effects. there are few studies that are funded towards the safeness of vaccines . and the obvious ineffectiveness of vaccines to prevent diseases is shined on. Its a fact that natural infectious diseases have beneficial effect on the maturing and developing immune system, ( a life long immunity)yet this is often either is ignored or buried. It can not be said that these substances are safe and that is never more evident then when as a parent you are asked to sign a waiver......When my son had a adverse reaction to the DPT shot it was a doctor that candidly told me to not give any more vaccinations, and it was a doctor that pointed me in the direction of research so i could make an informed decison, so this isn't a bash to the medical community, they are human also , WE often put our trust without researching , We have the right to have all the information so we can make informed decsions......thats what i stand for....

Then what's the point of immunizations? You are wrong. They promote antibodies that fight off diseases. They help out the immune system.

Yes they do...The problem is viruses do a little something called EVOLUTION...ever hear of it?


Can food prevent EBola, Ecoli, Streptococcus, Hepatitus, Malaria, cholera? Nope!

The purpose of the vaccination is to fool the immune system into thinking it has the disease thus making antibodys, I'm not gonna re-type the flaws with this go back and re earlier posts.......Its Russion roulette becasue it compromises the immune system ( on kids babys most are getting series of vaccinations before 2 years old they are still developing) and it doesn't last for example say you have immunized against say diptheria and there is an out break your but is getting diptheria its as simple as that....Vaccines didn't cure anything Sanitary health conditions did, curiousityhas already mentioned that clean water no rotten food and modern bathroom facilitys, alittle hand washing, have been the reasons for disease prevention.

How about this scenario for comparison.
Antibiotic abuse. People who catch a cold (virus) and get an antibiotic as a preventive measure to keep from getting pneumonia (bacteria).
We have all heard that this has resulted in resisitance and is common knowledge now, but once warnings about this were ignored in the USA and still are in some nations where you can buy them over the counter.
Perhaps vaccine use should be less widespread and only used where the potential for loss of life without them seems likely to exist.
Flue shots are a good example. When there was a shortage of them only those who truly faced loss of life if they were to get the flue were supposed to get them, the frail elderly and those with compromised immune systems.

The only Anti-Vccination theory that Iam interested in is the corallation between Autism and Vaccination's. My boy/girl twins were born at 26 weeks gestation and are now 14. They both have severe mental retardation and my girl has Autism and cannot speak. Tried eveything and been everywhere. I think if I could pinpoint an exact Vaccination that caused this disease I would be all for stopping Vaccines until we get it cleared up and safer.
Iam mostly convinced her disease is from premature birth truama and brain bleeds. Yet I keep hearing new reports about the rise in Autism in California between 90 and 95. My twins were vaccinated in 92. I wonder.

Chunga that would be MMR (measles, mumps rubella) and in the event a child did catch these they virtually go unnoticed no more deadly then a chicken pox and will give a life long immunity...

Bella excellent call on the antiboitics they should never be given to a child the immune system in order to be effective needs to be used...

Chunga i'm so sorry for what happened to your children many of us are sharing our storys to prevent another parent and child going through what many of us have becasue of supressed information.....

My son is almost 9 years old he has never been on an antibiotic, the childhood years are so important in developing a immune system which will take one through a lifetime......

^^Sorry to hear that, I wouldn't be surprised if it was caused by the vaccination.

Thanks Kid, Your Mama must hug and kiss you alot. Your such a good boy.

wait a second.. is this articel stating that vaccines dont do anything or that they are actually bad for you?

when i was four i had scarlet fever and chicken pox at the same time, but i dont think i almost died from it i didnt take any vaccines, just 3 to 4 oatmeal baths a day!

Why thankyou for tha Rambo Frog interesting we have someone who survived imagine that....

Autism rates are going up at an alarming rate. Lots of Info here: http://www.crohns.net/Miva/education/autism.shtml. It's even been linked to environmental polutants.

I'm sorry for your children and you Chunga. I know its hard. I'm thankful for the little that my son can do.

Thank You very much for the link. Iam always interested in anything new, just in case.
Iam saddened to know that your child has a tough road to walk as well. Iam also trying to see the glass as half full. Keep hope alive and I wish you guy's the best. Remember the saying... Mother's of Disabled kid's is the only club where God chooses the member's.

Intresting you don't know that diseases affect people in different virulence levels. This affirms that you do not know anything.

Good call Frogfish. The strength of a persons immune system is a matter of genetics and diet. Taking antibiotics has nothing to due with it's development.



Lapi'che

Yes I'm quite wary of vaccines too...

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm


Missing scientists..experts at fighting infectious diseases


http://www.apfn.org/APFN/scientists.htm

http://www.cuttingedge.org/NEWS/n1592.cfm



and last but not least...the beggining of Aidshttp://www.deepspace4.com/pages/diseases/pagesdisease/aidsflowchart.htm

.. You said without a vaccination one has no chance of survival against Scarlet fever, RAmbo is living proof you are in error, that was the point....Its good to see you have rethought your position.......

I must be reading all the wrong sites.. cause I have read little supporting vaccinations... all of it is fairly anti...as well as overloading the body in Mercury etc... causing lots of auto-imune problems... it's the worry of live viruses.. earlier made from from monkeys..cows..( scary thought Mad Cows... and the Yakults..the Acidopholous..etc..for balanced stomache flora is made from bovine ( cow) products...now lots of vaccinations are made using eggs ..( bird flu??)

got to look into it further.. as many of the sites I've read said it's the gov't way of controlling population.. notic how fertility is down???.....the early anti polio vaccinations..and mump and measle vaccinations are said to have caused fertility problems in females... ...
...will dig up the articles later... got to go...

I'll repeat this again. Diseases affect people with different virulence factors. You don't know anything on this topic.

Reread your posts you are defending your posts from yourself you were the one saying without vaccinations.... Blah blah the only voice on this thread that is so sure they are safe with tons of evidence and personal storys otherwise you also said vaccinations build the immune system...dude read your posts, its clear who is ....... LOL...
What are you about 15 or so?????

You do not know what you arer talking abou...I suggest you actually read about modern medicine before bashing it unsuccesfully.

Yes, I am 15...but way more educated than you on the basis of this thread.

I could tell ya some real medical nightmare stories, but when I heard they were putting mercury in vaccinations as a preservative, I thought that explains a lot. No wonder Johnny can't read, they have poisoned him. One of the major problems with medical research is it is driven by greed.
One thing though, when was the last time you have seen anyone with polo or small pox. There diseases were rampant killed and cripple people buy the thousands. I don't think we should get rid of vaccines; there should be better research, better training of Doctors and a different way of funding research so we are not at the mercy of the greed mongers

actually you are the one who is wrong, or at least has no common sense. i was four years old when i had scarlet fever, when a human is four years old their immune system is quite weak because it is just being built for lack of a better word. as a child nearly everyones virulence factors are equivalent, therefore nullyfing your point

Thankyou Rambo for your input, when one is 15 they 'know it all" then they turn 30 and realize they actually know nothing, and in that knowing nothing all is possible, Ah such is the journey of life...lol

ther is no funding for research never has been, I beleive england is the only country that has done research and the little they did way back when is still used today, something as serious as injecting poisions into the bodys of babies should be taken very seriously, but sadly it isn't and many children have problems these are just a few storys there are so many, we are in our infancy of understanding the human immune system and currently have no cures to many of our mistakes, i'm with you i insist we research and stop using our children as human Guinea pigs....I think the decline in disease such as the ones they vaccinate for have been eradicated becasue of modern sanitation and clean water and hand washing not vaccines, actually any reported a cases are from the shots themselves...
Also many iof these go undetected no more serious than the common cold less and they provide a life long immunity and it worrys me how much we a s a humanity tamper with things and then have evidence that it isn't working and ignore it,.......Its a word of mouth thing now, once where someone (my eldests doctor) spoke with me and suggested i research i do the same turn......

They are better trained...and mercury is not used anymore.


You don't even know what virulence means. Humans react in different ways...Virulence varies from human to human. My immune system was very weak...I was born with stomach ulcers, acute pericarditus, and acid reflux. Humans DO HAVE Different levels of virulence at any age. You clearly do not know anything about medicine Rambo...Epidemiology for that matter.


And some know from the "beginning".


Yes there has. My dad works at UofM and his colleague his one of the US's premier prostate cancer genecists. He has funding... a lot of funding.


We don't


You are wrong there...you cannot eradicate diseases like small pox, anthrax, polio, Hepatitus, persitussis with just proper sanitation. It is the vaccines that fight them off. It is vaccines that save millions of lives in developing countries where diseases like malaria go rampant.


I doubt Hepatitus, Ebola, sleeping sickness, and others go undetected. Practically, once you get those, you are dead within a week (except for Hepatitus).

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http://thinktwice.com/s_polio.htmVaccines and Neurological Damage

Vaccinations are very neurotoxic and have been associated with many neurological disorders, like encephalopathies, epilepsy, convulsions, ADD, LD, autism, mental retardation, depression, anxiety, CNS disorders, paralysis, Guillain-Barre Syndrome, nerve deafness, blindness and SIDS. The neurological disorders associated with vaccinations are diverse and numerous. Vaccinations lower IQ as well as contribute to the overt mental disorders and neurological diseases listed here. The relationship of vaccinations to encephalopathies and neurological diseases have been surfacing in medical journals since the advent of mass vaccination programs. Autism was unheard of before vaccinations, and parallel mass vaccination programs very nicely. ADD and learning disorders in children are now being traced to childhood vaccinations, as well as convulsions, paralysis, and epilepsy. Brain damage is by far the most common adverse reaction associated with vaccinations, although their actual numbers are not often reported correctly.

List of Vaccination-induced Neurological disorders:

Encephalitis
Ataxia/Apraxia
Retardation
Meningitis Paralysis
Paralytis polio
Ms Gullain Barre Syndrome
Lupus
Hyperactivity - ADD, LD
Demyelinization diseases
Auto-immune Diseases Epilepsy
Convulsions - Seizures
Blindness
Deafness
SIDS
Epilepsy
Mental confusion - lowered IQ
Brain tumors (SV-40)
This list was generated from a variety of resources and is not, by any means, all inclusive.

The encephalopathies associated with vaccinations may range from overt neurological disease to high pitched crying (commonly seen after vaccination), which is not often recognized as brain damage. In other words, the child is just "reacting to the needle". It is "normal" to be afraid of shots. But what they are missing is the diagnosis of overt neuropathy, encephalitis or brain dysfunction, because high pitched crying is not normal. Brain damage from vaccines is epidemic and yet, doctors are slow to diagnose neurological disorders (in US) when vaccinations are at stake but we see many citations linking changes (for the worse) after vaccinations are given.

Ted Koren, DC stated, "Dyslexia, minimal brain damage, ADD, autism, allergies, visual and many other neurologic diseases grouped together as "developmental disabilities," barely existed before mass vaccination programs. Probably twenty percent of American children-one youngster in five-suffers from a ‘developmental disability.’ This is a stupefying figure Developmental disabilities" are nearly always generated by encephalitis. And the primary cause of encephalitis in the United States and other industrialized countries is the childhood vaccination program. To be specific, a large proportion of the millions of U.S. children and adults suffering from autism, seizures, mental retardation, hyperactivity, dyslexia, and other developmental disabilities, owe their disorders to one or another of the vaccines against childhood diseases." [Emphasis mine.]

Some 40-50 years ago children were not vaccinated until they were ready for the first grade at age 6. Neurological disorders were very uncommon then. Today, children are vaccinated at birth for HiB and begin their long vaccination-journey at 2 months of age, before the blood brain barrier is fully developed. A review of the medical literature around the world will turn up many articles linking vaccinations with many neurological disorders. Before the 1940s, autism was extremely rare or unheard of. Then in the mid-1940s we began a massive vaccination programs and autism was "born". At first, it only occurred in the children of wealthy parents, since vaccinations were not free or government sponsored like today. Later autism became a disease of all classes (with government-sponsored vaccine programs). The psychiatrists had a hay-day with autism and at first they called it the "Refrigerator-Mother Syndrome". They said the mother had a "cold" heart causing the child to be autistic and withdrawn. Yet, studies did not support this theory, since many families had only one autistic child among several normal children. The point they missed was that it was the Doctor’s cold needles that caused the problem, not the mother’s cold heart.

"The strongest link was between measles virus..... http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/ne...ical_damage.htm

read this ..it's disturbing....






http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james.htm

Frog it would be just like you to tell a physics proffessor he knows nothing, or a physcologist or the other educated contributors.A man of many years versus your few, you dear boy are very disrespectful, and no you obviously are looking to sources that are out dated as we learn more knowledge is adjusted to reflect that, The medical community once said cigarette smoking was good for you , or hormone replacement one of the leading contributers of Breast cancer, now vioxx, doctors rarely say vaccines are healthy for you kids that think they know it all do though, it was a doctor that pointed me in teh direction of natural parenting using natural methods, and we are moving in that direction east is meeting west...You are not versed in propaganda and corporate greed or pharmacuetical corruption,

[quote name='frogfish' date='Mar 21 2006, 04:01 PM' post='1114762']
They are better trained...and mercury is not used anymore.
You don't even know what virulence means. Humans react in different ways...Virulence varies from human to human. My immune system was very weak...I was born with stomach ulcers, acute pericarditus, and acid reflux. Humans DO HAVE Different levels of virulence at any age. You clearly do not know anything about medicine Rambo...Epidemiology for that matter.


frog, i never said they werent different, i said at a young age they are NEARLY the same. and by the way, being 15 im quite sure the most you know on medicine is what you read on some website, or perhaps in health class... so dont tell me what i do and dont know foolish child

chicken pox lol

my cusin has cerebal palsy though

No they aren't...Read up. It's Basic Epidemiology...do you even know what that word means?



That's where you are wrong...Age does not reflect intellect. Coming from a medical family, I probably know more about medicine now than you will ever know I have probably researched and read more than you also.
Do some research...see how many teenagers have already accomplished more than you ever hoped too.


Same goes for you, foolish "adult".


Read what I said above.


The key is once....everything was corrupted at some time...the church, the goverment..etc.
The Medical Society is know much more adept and skilled to handle problems that natural medicine can never reach.

Frog you show what you know which is nothing, you are showing your insecurities though, a big clue is one who respects his intellect respects others lol (especially recognizes wisdom) Frog is making funnies ha ha ha ha ha

And you couldn't reply to any of my points? So sad.

"The key is one time every thing was corrupted".....Hello where are you living Corruption is alive and well today...I don't reply because your points are nonsensical......as i pulled out for an example with your quote.....How does one respond to posts such as these?????
I can see you might need some extra attention....

[You don't even know what virulence means. Humans react in different ways...Virulence varies from human to human. My immune system was very weak...I was born with stomach ulcers, acute pericarditus, and acid reflux. Humans DO HAVE Different levels of virulence at any age. You clearly do not know anything about medicine Rambo...Epidemiology for that matter.
And some know from the "beginning".
Yes there has. My dad works at UofM and his colleague his one of the US's premier prostate cancer genecists. He has funding... a lot of funding.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


have you seen or read about this???

http://www.siberiantigernaturals.com/pepticulcerfaq.htm

http://www.hpylori.com.au/

Thank you crystal, I guess his parents told him he was "special' and goo gooed at his imagination .......I read that a few days ago and passed on it i have been trying to gently tell him he needs to go back to the drawing board..

Great links I too have not found many sources that are in favor of vaccinations......
We have many doctors in my state that actually aren't either.....

First I want to welcome crystal sage to the funny pages.
I live in SE Michigan about 25 min from Ann Arbor.

Froggie, I'm sorry but you make me laugh. Don't try to grow up to fast.
Phydomeds are on the move. People are turning to holistic alternatives in droves. The drug companies are messing us all up and making us dependent on them. Your family isn't interested in holistics I take it. You really need to inform yourself and them of how truely real natural meds are and how dangerous some pharmicudicals are.

Curiousity that is a great suggestion