I've always been fascinated by other peoples' outlooks on the various theological and historical information and beliefs over the decades, especially those that are out of the ordinary.

Recently I have been reading accounts and treatises for the cases of Angelic Possession, the capricious and ultimately malignant nature of the Heavens, which is directly contrary to popular belief spewed by the Abrahamic Faiths (Christianity, Islam, Judiaism).

So here I present you with a new challenge: the case of Angelic Possession, and the information regarding such things. What is your take? Are you just going to refute it as irrational, radical thinking? Are you going to dismiss it as evil and patronizing towards your belief? Or are you going to be a pure skeptic and question both the validity of THESE arguments, the arguments of the Abrahamic Faiths, compare/contrast the two, and make your own conclusions?

Again, I seek to establish an intelligent conservation.

Thanks for participating.

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Dark Angels & Gnostic Philosophies

More to come later

Hmm. Another interesting topic. I have to run right now ... but I would invoke the Neoplatonic writer Iamblichus at this juncture. If you can find an online version of De Mysteriis, especially Thomas Taylor's translation, then perhaps you might find a lot of points of interest. Also, perhaps a google on the word "theurgy."

Cheers,
Rosencruez

Perhaps in this case I am bound to not say too much but ...

... at one time there was a group known as the Knights Beneficent of the Holy City ... or the Elus Cohens (Elect Priests). They were led by Martinez de Pasqually, who was said to be a disciple of Emanuel Swedenborg. They were very much into ritual magic, specifically a type of "theurgy" influenced in part by Iamblichus and the Neoplatonic school. Curiously, their goal, in part, was to evoke through ceremonial magick the visible presence of Jesus Christ. It is said that on occassion they succeeded in manifesting "la Chose" which is French for "The Thing." Martinez's main work was known as the "Treatise on the Reintegration of Beings" and is pretty rare to find an English translation. (I personally found it rather dull but it is said to be a coded book of ceremonial magick.)

Martinez died abruptly on a trip to Haiti. One of Martinez's more prominent disciples was the Marquis Louis-Claude de Saint-Martin who wrote during the French Revolution under the pseudonym "The Unknown Philosopher." He preferred a type of Christian mysticism known as the "Way of the Heart." His disciples passed on an initiation amongst certain "Society of Intimates or Friends" and later this was revived during the French Occult Revival by Papus as the Martinist Order. A different disciple, Johanne Baptiste Willermoz (if I remember how to spell it correctly) took up the "magickal" or "theurgical" rites involving the attempt to manifest the visible presence of Jesus. This type of magic was passed on in the Strict Templar Observance and eventually the Rectified Scottish Rite. Various people in the 20th Century attempted to revive the Elus Cohen but eventually abandoned it ... although some claim to work the system to this day. It is one of the more curious rites out there in ritual magick.

For any brothers of the order who see this in print, I wish you well ... and it's just a very cursory overview.

Before the Flambaux,
A frater

Perhaps sooner than later would be advisable in matters where you claim to be fascinated by other's outlooks on various subjects you care to post, but fail to contribute to personally.
If it is an interview you seek please ask, as some have done already. Rather than asking for opinions or observations on a topic and at the same time incorporating reference links in support of the topic to which you seek personal contributions on board.

So, in keeping with that, "what is your take" on this subject of Angelic Possession?

Hmm. Okay, the actual links talk about something slightly different than what I was thinking they'd be about. But then, it might be the same thing, depending upon who you think the "Unknown Superiors" are.

My take on "Angelic Posession?"

I am skeptical about it at best, and perhaps I love the concept at worst. Again, I had to run off to work so I didn't have alot of time to discuss the matters above.

First of all, let's take a look at the Luciferian Model -- that we are Children of Lucifer (the Father) and Earth (the Mother). God--Angels--Heaven are the "evil ones" who are trying to destroy our lives.

Lucifer is supposed an extraterrestrial entity -- he changed DNA from apes to develop Humans, etc, etc, etc. . . . lots of boring history.

BUT -- let's take a look at the logic and rationality behind such histories. The very notion of Lucifer being our father is a little far-fetched -- him being an Exterterrestrial entity, chainging DNA, etc -- all extremely vague arguments.

Evolution has already shown the steps; I don't think any "DNA tamperment" was needed in order for Humans to have "evolved" into our current state. Then again, they could be right.

However, all that can be debated endlessly. . . . what I am REALLY concerned, and dislike, is the very nature of their model.

From reading and dissecting their histories and beliefs, philsophies, teachings, etc., I have decided to call Luciferianism a kind of "Negative-Reciprocal of the Abrahamic Faiths" particular Christianity.

The CONSTANTLY use refernce to the Bible as an indication of THEIR truths; they also utilize various Occult materials. I believe the most notable was Aleister Crowley's "Book of the Law."

This, TO ME, is nothing but mere babbling of various Occult teachings and Christian fundamentals smashed together, spun with a new thread, and dyed with different colors than previously.

If they have such "truths" then I expect to see something beyod Abrahamic books and teachings, and BASIC Occult fundamentals that permeate throughout virtually all other Occult organizations, beliefs, etc.

The very usage of a Christian model suggest the necessity to base their argument off of a previous one -- well, actually a COUNTER ARGUMENT against a largely accepted one (Christianity).

The constant usage of the "Apocalypse" as seen in the Book of Revelations suggests that they truly believe in said "Apocalypse" but instead just see it in a kind of "Negatively Reversed" light. The advent of the Third AntiChrist, the possession of the Angels, etc, how God is evil, how Jesus is evil -- I have heard these things before.

It's not that hard -- take something, change it up, type up a bunch of treatesis specifically designed to refute a Belief System.

It seems, to me, all this "Angelic Possession" and "Luciferian" models are basically just a bunch of people who are extremely unhappy with the Abrahamic faiths, and who are attention starved enough to REWRITE Abrahamic history for their own purposes.

Unlike other groups, who actually have something worthwhile, new, and INNOVATIVE.

I seek a Philosophic Revival -- something NEW. Preconcieved notions and Occult theories are OUTDATED -- just as he said Remote Viewing is outdated.

That said, any model that simply does a complex reversal of the Christian model needs serious work to convince me of anything. Where is the new facts? New beliefs? Did you construct a completely innovative principle or system that allows us to see things in an entirely new philosophical spectrum?

They did not achieve that. Merely, they are spreading their own FUNDAMENTALISTIC THEORIES, as well as copying/pasting PRECONCIEVED Occult Materials, as seen in his setion of Croweley's "Book of the Law."

Peace

Firstly, in a discussion of Lucifer and with respect to this threads topic of "Angelic Possession"; There is a vast difference between possession and reverence for the archetype that Lucifer represents. (Though there are some that envision that power as an anthropomorphic being, that is not the relative to this reply.)

Further, one may get side tracked in the study of the Luciferian mysteries as they are applied in various occult ideologies and practices if they do not research beyond the Christian Paradigm. (Note that is not a reference to the Judeo-Christian faith, as the Jews have never recognized a "devil" in their sacred texts).
However, the Bible is admittedly a composition of myths and fables compiled from the Hebrew and other texts and are translated so as to reach an accord with the doctrine that particular tome seeks to impart to the faithful that subscribe to the tenets it delineates for Christians faith.

In truth, and with respect to the spiritual/religious/magical practices that attend the Luciferian paradigm, the "energy" of Lucifer is far older than that to which that Bible alludes to as the origin of the "fallen one", from Yahweh's heaven.

*The source link included in this reply is used to condense into one source the history to which I refer, for brevity of my point .* (Link)

Therefore, while Lucifer reigns in the minds of some Christians (and others) as the deceiver, the opposer to god's and/or the Christ's purpose of salvation for the souls of humanity etc... it is a mistake to imagine those others who respect Luciferian power/traits in a religious or spiritual manner are doing so in the contemporary affects they embrace and or apply, through the advent of what was a Christian paradigm. The archetype, the power if you will , of Luciferian energies is far older than that which the ancient scribes corrupted to the intent and purpose of re-writing the histories for their own purpose, when the power itself is unassailable and immune to the insecurities of men.