mmm which part? being crucified upside down or Peter denying Jesus three times?

If you are referring to the crucifixion part, why do you think I said "according to tradition"? I never said it was the soild truth.

and your welcome Astronema.

Edit:
-- See, you shouldn't be so quick to jump at people

You are correct Pandy. The symbol of the upside down cross was also ( and still is ) a holy symbol, for this specific reason, but, much like the swastika, was stolen and perverted by other religious means ( Aleister Crowley).

There is no mention of this in the bible of course, but it was brought about by the scholar Origen, who remains one of the earliest scholars of Christianity.

Lord of the Rings, for one. Thats a pretty good piece of literature... Theres also stuff like the Mahabharata. Hell, do you believe the "Holy Quran"?



Really? No one before that thought that killing was wrong, or anything of the sort, hmm?



Yes, of course. There were no laws and morals before the ten commandments



Thats a whole seperate argument, one which you can not prove either.



If its a matter of belief, you can not say absolutely that the prophecies have been fulfilled, nor can you use that as an argument to support that theres anything actually holy about the "holy" bible.



Well, first of all "There shalt be no other god before me" was a pretty common one! Another fine example is the ancient greek law system. It was quite clear that they viewed murder as an act against the law (They had punisments for murderers...)]

So, now, wheres your proof that something like the 10 commandments could only have come from god?

GS

I am not going trying to be rude, but the only reason some people like these nordics is because they are white looking ängelic"beings", remind me of the annunaki in some ways. Thats why i said instead of ugly greys, The anti christ will have nordic looking beings (annunaki mostly) around him - when he makes himself known.

MAC

Ok well even if the Nordics are bad. There's still something I have to say. But I'm taking it out of my diary so it's personal. But I feel I really need to show it to you. It's from the bottom of my heart. It truly is. but anyway will begin now.

Thu. March 30, 2006
Dear Miracle,
Just now I've been thinking. You know that there's this one saying in the bible. "Forgive Us Our Trustpasses As We Shall Forgive Those Who Trustpass Against Us". Well I was just thinking that even though yes the fallen angels and the devil are bad. But they still are God's children. I think. And even though they are evil doers I'm sure that God and Jesus as well as the angels and archangels love them unconditionally. Even though they have commited hidious crimes against humanity. Well Miracle this is gonna be quite hard to say. But I forgive them. All of them every single one. Even the devil himself. Because just like every human on this earth. They are still my brothers and sisters. And like God and Jesus and the angels and archangels. I love them all unconditionally no matter what. Their my family. Even if years ago. They went over to the darkside. They still are my family. And I love them all unconditionally. I hope they can hear me or read what I am writing. Cause it's true. I love everything. Even the lifeforms that are considered as drones and aren't considered as living because they don't have a soul. I still love them. They are after all my brothers and sisters. I hope they still love me unconditionally no matter what. Even if I turned onto the light side. Because I feel the same way about them. So it's only fair that they would love me back. Because I'm their sister as well and I love them. I love everything in the whole entire universe(s) bad or good I still forgive them and I still love them unconditionally unless they don't want to be fair. But even if they don't I still love them unconditionally no matter what. I still forgive them. I believe that people or different lifeforms at that. Can change from their ways all they have to do is ask God and Jesus for forgiveness and forgive those that trustpassed against them. And than after doing so. They are ready to begin the process of healing. And new understandings. And a brighter future. With people or lifeforms at their side. Watching them grow in their understandings. And become a changed race of beings. So given that the devil and his followers can ask for forgiveness from God and Jesus and the angels and archangels. All they have to do is have the want and the need to change from their evil ways and wrong doings. That's all. But it's all up to them. I can't make the choice for them they have to make it for themselves. But even though right now at this point in time their on the darkside. That will never change the fact that they still are and will always be my brothers and sisters. In this great big family. And I'll still love them all no matter what. I'll still love love everyone of them unconditionally. Even though they are on the other side. I still love them no matter what. And even if they decide not to pass over to God's side. That's ok. Still nothing will ever beable to change that fact that I love them. And that they still are no matter what my brothers and sisters. I just hope this well saying this doesn't make me a bad and evil person in the eyes of God,Jesus, and the angels. Because I really don't want that.

Well there you have guys. For those of you who are wondering who Miracle is. That's my diary's name. You know how anne frank named her diary Kitty. Well I named mine Miracle because I'm a Miracle Baby.

Any Thoughts?

McKenna:

I have read several of your posts, and you sound very undecisive on what side you will choose. I have bad news, you will have to choose a side. You will not be able to stradle the fence until the TRUE Messiah returns. Revelations 3:15-16 "I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or else hot. So, because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth". When the time comes you will have fight against these evil forces even if we end up dying violent deaths. What's worst...dying a thousand deaths or living for eternity?

Where are nordics thought or believed to be from? I've heard different stories from different people, some say they're Venusians and others say that they're from a cluster of star systems. Either way they're very beautiful. ;D I think the only way i would be frightened of them if they were to come for me is 1. Being caught offguard and taken against mah will and 2. They'd be so daggum tall compared to me! ;D [Darn mah 5'1"ness ]

But back to your entry, McKenna. That's what i like about you, you have a very forgiving nature- just like mah mom. So you make me feel close at home, how's that for a compliment?

You're right though, everyone deserves a chance at life no matter who they are or what they've done. That doesn't make them one ounce less of a person. Amen to that, sistah! I don't think that you would be "punished" for forgiving the fallen angels, devil, etcetc because you still have good intentions:: to be peaceful!!

So there's mah two cents on the topic.

--//xo;Ace

Read what i wrote...

Nope i don't believe in the Quran... and come on you bringing "LOTR" into this.



No one can win either side of the argument, its all about belief



Lets see the ancient greek law system, when someone kills a fammily member, you are allowed to go and kill the murderer, and then so the murderers fammily member would kill one of yours, because he is allowed also and this would continue, read about it - wow.



My heart.

Heh i was going to say that.

That's a very good compliment. yeah I still have good intentions to be peaceful. And besides I wanna be fair. And if I had to pick one side over the other. That wouldn't be fair. So i'd rather not pick between sides at all. Because that way everyone bad or good. Would get the same thing. So it would be fair for both sides. So when the time comes for God's War against the devil. I will choice not to have a side. I'll just go about my own business and watch everybody fight and watch the world go down because of peoples carelessness. I'll watch each side battle it out at the side lines. I know this might seem wrong to you guys. But that's my choice. That's what I'll choice to do. And if my life is in danger because of the choice i make. Then so be it. At least I will know in death that I died for what I truly believed. But if both sides chooses not to kill or hurt me then so be that too. Still I'll remain civil and sideless forevermore. The only two hopes I have are that both sides will beable to come to an understanding and forgive each other and start anew and bright future for tommorrow's children. so that they wouldn't have to grow up in a world of so much negative energy. I also hope that if I am to die that my diaries would be saved so that my spirit and legacy will live on forevermore like Anne Frank. And if I live than that's ok as well. However, I still choose to remain sideless. Because it's only fair to both sides and to me. That way everybody will be happy. I'll just be a person without a side if I live. Or a spirit neither living in heaven nor hell nor stuck on earth. I'll be free to rome the universe(s) and be free.

I forgot to meation one other hope that I want. I would like to read to both sides what i said about forgiveness,unconditional love, etc. And if they say so who's side are you on. I'll tell them that I remain sideless forevermore. And if they say why to that I'll tell them what I told you guys in post 560. And then I'll leave it to them to decide what they will do with me.

Any Thoughts?

read post 560.

Why not? Both Islam and Christianity have their roots in Judaism. Allah and Yahweh are one in the same.




Gee that does sound pretty immoral....let's consult the bible to see what moral advise it can give.....

(According to Leviticus 27:29)
"No person devoted to destruction may be ransomed; he must be put to death."
(According to Exodus 34: 6-7)
"The Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation."
(According to Leviticus 26:14-22
" If you continue hostile to me, and will not obey me, I will continue to plague you sevenfold for your sins. I will let loose wild animals against you, and they shall kill your children."
(According to Hosea 13:16
"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

......its not sounding particularly moral. Despite the commandment "thou shalt not kill" we have yet more instances...

: Num. 16:35, Num. 21:6, Deut. 32:39-43, Psalms 135:10, Isaiah 66:16, Jer. 13:14, Gen. 38:7,10, Ex. 22:23-24, Num. 11:1, Deut. 28:15-28, Joshua 10:10-11, 1 Sam. 5:9, Psalms 136:17-18, Hosea 9:16, Amos 2:3, Ex. 4:24, 2 Sam. 6:6-7 , and 2 Kings 5:7 . Lev. 26:7-8, Num. 25:4-5, Num. 25:17, Deut. 20:16-17, Joshua 10:40, Ezek. 9:5-6, 1 Sam. 15:3,18 Also note: Ex. 32:27-28, Num. 21:34-35, Num. 31:7-8, Num. 35:19-21, and Jer. 48:10. And God supposedly killed the righteous along with the wicked : Ezek. 21:3-4 and killed a large number of people simply because they couldn't control their curiosity about the contents of the ark of the covenant : 1 Sam. 6:19-20.

When he wasn't promoting "the death penalty", our bible says that God favored the following:
He mandated unlimited punishment for limited sins: Matt. 25:46. Also Rev. 14:11 and Mark 9:43-48.
He takes credit for creating evil (as well as GOOD), Isaiah. 45:7.
He deceives: Jer. 20:7.
He delivers a holy man ( JOB } into Satan's hands: Job 2:6.
He is not omnipotent or all powerful: Judges 1:19.
He made false and unfulfilled prophecies: ? In Gen. 17:3, 8 and Ex. 32:13.
God told Abraham that he would give to him and his descendants all of Canaan for an eternal possession. But Acts 7:5 says, "He gave him ( Abraham) no inheritance here, not even a foot of ground. But God promised him that he and his descendants after him would possess the land, even though at that time Abraham had no child" and Heb. 11:13 says, "All these people. . . did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance." The Bible itself admits that God's promise to Abraham failed.? In Gen. 35:10 God said to Jacob, "thy name shall not be called any more Jacob,Yet, Gen. 46:2 says, "God spoke to Israel in the visions of the night, and said, 'Jacob, Jacob'.? Lastly, 1 Sam. 23:12 says, "David asked, 'Will the citizens of Keilah surrender me and my men to Saul?' And the Lord said, 'They will'." This prophecy never occurred, because the opposite happened. Saul was delivered into David's hands, not once but twice.
He causes adultery: 2 Sam. 12:11-12.
He orders the taking of a harlot: Hosea 1:2.
He loses his temper: Deut. 13:17 Hosea 1:2, Judges 3:8, Psalm 21:9, 2 Sam. 24:1, 1 Kings 16:26, Nahum 1:2, 2 Kings 13:3, Ex. 32:10, Num. 11:1, Num. 16:46 , Num. 32:13-14 , 1 Kings 14:9, 1 Kings 15:30, 1 Kings 16:2, 1 Kings 16:7, 1 Kings 16:13, 2 Chron. 34:25, Psalm 18:7 and Jer. 44:6.
He is often jealous: "I the Lord thy God am a jealous God. . ." Deut. 5:9, Ex. 20:5 . "For the Lord thy God is a jealous God among you. . ." Deut. 6:15 .See also: Ex. 34:14, Deut. 4:24, Deut. 29:20, Psalms 78:58, Ezek. 16:38, Ezek. 36:5-6 and Joshua 24:19 .
He repents. Even though 1 Sam. 15:29 ( "the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent" says that god never repents, the following verses say the opposite. it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at this heart" Gen. 6:6, Ex. 32:14, 1 Sam. 15:11 1 Sam. 15:35, Jer. 26:3, Jer. 18:8
He practices injustice: Ex. 4:22-23, Num. 14:18, Deut. 23:2, Deut. 28:32, Joshua 22:20, 2 Sam. 12:14 .
He plays favorites: We are told in 2 Chron. 19:7 that, ". . .there is no iniquity with the Lord our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts." Yet, that is clearly disproven by the following comments. "For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God has chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth" Deut. 7:6, Deut.14:2, 1 Sam. 12:22, 1 Chron. 17:22, Isaiah. 52:6, Matt. 15:24, John 4:22, Gen. 4:4-5.
He sanctions slavery: Deut. 15:17, Titus 2:9.
He discriminates against the handicapped: Lev. 21:16-23.
He punishes children for their father's sins: Ex. 34:7.
He punishes bastards for being illegitimate: Deut. 23:2.
He punishes many for the acts of one: Gen. 3:16, Gen. 20:18.
He prevents people from hearing his words: Isaiah 6:10, Rom. 9:18, Matt. 13:13-14.
He orders cannabalism: Isaiah 49:26 says, "I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh; they will be drunk on their own blood, as with wine. . . Lev. 26:29 , Jer. 19:9, Ezek. 5:10.
He demanded 16,000 virgins be given to soldiers as war plunder and 32 be set aside for himself: Num. 31:31-40.
He requires an unbetrothed virgin to marry her seducer: Ex. 22:16.
He sanctions the degradation of the enemies' women: Deut. 21:10-13.
He sanctions the beating of slaves as long as they can arise at least a day or two after the beating: Ex. 21:20-21.
He requires a woman to marry her rapist: Deut. 22:28-29.
He trains people for war: Psalm 144:1 says, "Praise be to the Lord, my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle."
He intentionally gave out bad laws: Ezek. 20:25 says, "I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by. . ."
He orders gambling: Joshua 14:2, Num. 26:52-56.
He excused the sins of prostitutes and adulterers: Hosea 4:14.
He excused a murderer and promised him protection:Gen. 4:13-15.
He aided rather than punished a swindler: In Gen. 28:14-15.
He breaks up families: Ex. 21:2-4


hmmmm.....

and why don't you go back and read what I edited into my post...k?

you don't have to be such a meanie.

That wasn't mean... And i think i mistook your post

sometimes it's hard to tell on forums, ya know...but I was getting this weird "meanie" vibe s'ok though, we're cool

sorry if you were still angered

This is just my opinion, nor should it reflect on anyone else’s. I haven't read all of the pages through so this might have already been said so I apologize. I believe their is a God, I just don't believe in organized religion. Who can really say that Christianity is the true religion. Who can say that the Jewish, or Islamic or Buddhist or whatever else religion, is right or wrong? It's all a matter of what you were taught and believed in. If God is an all caring God, He should not hold fault on those who were not taught in the "proper" religion.

Lets face it, the bible was wrote by man. It's supposed to be the word of God, was anyone around to actually know for a fact? There is no proving, nor disproving any religion. Man can be manipulated by anyone or anything. What makes the bible the real word of God? If you follow the bible than what makes someone not believe that perhaps, Satan has influenced whom ever wrote the scriptures into believe false information, or just perhaps all of the translations and rewrites and censorships have changed the whole meanings behind it. Anyone can read through and pick out examples for this and that, and get their own beliefs from it. No one is right nor wrong, it's just a matter of how one sees things for themselves.

Now if man wrote the bible, wouldn't he want it to be something to his liking? Religion has been used as a tool to control and manipulate people into believing what man said was right. That goes for any religion. Religion is basically, to me at least, a conformity to the society that is deemed to be the "right" way to live and worship. It's a way for people to control everyone else and follow their original beliefs.

I'm not trying to come off as saying "being religious is wrong" by any means, I just don't believe in what man teaches. It's proven time and again that man lies and manipulates, to have the public believe in their teachings. Why would religion be any different?

This is just how I see things and again this shouldn't persuade or influence anyone else

^ right on

I totally agree with that. That's way I want to give up my religion of christianity and remain forevermore non-religious(a person without a religion). Just wonder how I will get out of my being a christian is there like a ceremony or something that needs to take place in order for me to not have a religion anymore.

common sense tells me, just stop going to church.

been there done that. am still doing that and will continue to do that.

question:

the elohimes do they exist. just wondering.

Mckenna:

I truly respect your stance. I don’t agree with it, but I do respect it! However, I will say this - NEUTRALITY is not an option. It is not a popularity contest! You will either accept the ‘mark of the beast’ or you won’t. If you decide to accept the ‘mark of the beast’, essentially you have already chosen the dark side (sounds like Star Wars). lol

Seriously, I understand the thought of being humiliated, ostracized, tortured, & possibly killed is a scary thought but you DO NOT want your soul to be cast into Hell. Although many on this board will disagree with me, Hell is a real place; a physical place. It is a place of everlasting torment & constant suffering. I would not wish this fate on my worst enemy!

You really sound like a wonderful person that is just confused about events that may or may not transpire in our lifetime. Based on what I’ve read, all signs point that it may happen in the near future. Nonetheless, in the end you have to do what you feel is right - even if it means having your soul cast into the abyss!

And what I believe and is my choice that I make right now is to remain Neutral. Even if on both sides it's not an option. It's my option and that's what I choose no matter what happens to me.

That's OK I know ypu've been receiving a lot of questions

My question was regarding the Gog and Magog. Do you know who are the exact tribe of these will-be trouble makers?

and

Is there a REAL picture of Senanda?

Thanks

Your just like my cousin, you follow the same line as him if you know what i mean.
It sounds as though you also share the same view as david icke. And he's right in some ways - Religion can be used as a tool to control society, but that dosen't mean Religion itself is a tool - i mean millions and millions of people Believe in God in their own ways - are they all wrong? ofcourse not (Unless you know, your a satanist or something but thats not God thats a "Wannabe" God). Striking fear into a population is a great way to control a society aswell...

BTW Albaby since you thought there was a "code" or some clue in my avatar - i am going to find a picture that you can try and solve, its something i will talk about next

Didn't Albaby answer that already? I am sorry but if someone has the same answer i won't post it again but i will research it - i am sure i had papers on them.
and



Yes there is:



Taken from his fan site (I know its a reproduction)... I will find more recent ones if i can.



Here's one of Germain, he's on the right.



Your welcome!

Here's another point that I've had argued with me in the past...

If God, is an all knowing and powerful being, that created everything and knows everything before it happens, then why did he create the devil and Hell? If he knew that he was going to rebel against him before he was created, then what was the purpose to do it? If He knew when He created Adam and Eve what was going to happen, even though He told them not to eat the apple, that they were still going to and the whole world is the way it is because of this, why did He bother? If He had to kill off society different times just to let us go back down the same path as before, is it so He can battle the evil that He had to create? I do believe that there is a higher power out there and I believe one day we all will know the truth, but what everyone tries to push on people doesn't always make sense. Sure God gave us freedom to make choices but He already knew what we were going to do before the choices were laid before us.

People argue that we have freedom of choice for God while others believe that our destiny was already written long before we were ever born. If God really knows everything before it happens and He created the world we all share, just to kill us off? Somehow that doesn't sound too much like a great and wonderful God that the bible makes people believe. Perhaps the bible is the corruption, or religion in general. No one really knows what is going to happen, when it's going to happen, or how it's going to happen. No one can say this is how it is and how its going to be. When the day comes and be it the "anti-christ" has shown himself as the "savior" I will not believe it. If I have to die for that then so be it. If God really cared for us, the ones who did not follow the misguidings of man, He will be at our sides when the time comes, if it does...

People have been getting too worked up at all the "signs" that's been going on. Lets have a look at some things that have been happening...

Bird flu - no cure, its spreading across the world, we're all probably screwed...

Earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, floods, volcanos, tornados, are all natural things that happen, maybe the reason of increase is because MAN is killing the earth?

War is everywhere, known and unknown, there is always a war being fought, be it for oil, land, money, power, religion? it's all the same. It's all in greed and mans belief that they are the ones who should rule us all.

There's probably a lot more that could be added to this but I'm just not thinking too deeply into it at the moment...

Oooh Nice point but think of what you said "He gave us the choice" so it is we who decide what to do with ourselves, also he gave free will to the angels as well - so they can if they want rebel against him if they want (and loose badly ) Remember there are many paths one person can take - God knows the outcome of all of them.

As for the "Anti-christ" remember it is said in Revelations that God has allowed this to happen - and that he will PROTECT his people

Ohhh trust me there not, they are very different.

McKenna:

If you are content being an agnostic - that's fine. Forums are great for sharing ideas, and new concepts - even changing the way you view things.

Some people will challenge your ideas/beliefs with facts, others, unfortunately, with threats..."if you don't do this or believe this you'll go hell"....(BTW Pascal's Wager is not a valid arguement).

Continue your journey and I wish you well.

See to a Christians view we think that you are trying to move her to an "athiests" point of view... But iam sure thats not your intentions Its all up to her in the end.

They may be seen differently now (because of the constructs of organised religion)- just as within christianity the Catholic god differs from the Mormon god, but common monotheism did originate with the god Yahweh and whether you like it or not...Allah is the Muslim representation of Yahweh.

Why do you think they are not one in the same?

nme#1:

No one is trying to oppose their "Will" on McKenna. Whether right or wrong, McKenna has the ability to make her own decisions. I TOTALLY respect that! Furthermore, because McKenna remains steadfast with her decision - no one, including myself, will pass judgment on her. I was only sharing my own personal feelings toward the whole ordeal. I wish everyone on the board can enjoy everlasting life including McKenna!

Okay Mohammed is the phrophet correct? well at the arab world at that time they had a God for every single day , so every day it will be a different God to worship - well mohammed chose to worship the moon god - allah. I am not going further!

Really? So words of encouragement are "trying to move her" but blatant threats and lies - are OK???? You're going to have to explain that one?

Oh - and just who is "we"?



Despite your sarcasm, no, it wasn't. When anyone on the forum asks for the views of others I'll happily put forth my ideas in a rational way. I don't see the need to threaten people.

Don't make me qoute myself again please... and if someone here threatened her please show me
Because i am sure that was not there intention.




I wasn't being sarcastic...

In Islam Mohammed is one of many prophets...the prophets of God in Islam include Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus, and Muhammad. Muslims believe that in about 610, he began to receive revelations from Allah that were transmitted by the angel Gabriel.



Indeed the Arabs at that time were polytheists, prior to being conquered by the muslim tribes. As with any religion it changes over time, and people bring in to it their own ideas and values and even change things to suit the local peoples. Hence the reason we have so many denominations within the worlds major religions.

So there are countless one-true-gods, however, getting back to the original arguement, the Christian, Jewish and Islamic god all stem from the god of Abraham or Yahweh.

I'm still teetering about the intent...telling someone that you support their decision but they are going to attract everlasting damnation isn't exactly warm and fuzzy is it? Or overly supportive for that matter. Is it just me or is this getting bigger than Ben Hur?



In that case happily withdrawn.

He first believed it was from the devil until his wife convinced him that it was not - and that he should listen to the voices. But you never know.

Ok did Eve eat the apple first. And than Adam. Well if she did than it's no wonder why women are the ones who carry the kid. I wonder what would happen if Adam ate the apple first. Than would men have been the ones to carry the kid. Just wondering.

Ofcourse as an atheist I would say neither

But ever wondered how many "prophets" could have been schizophrenic? Ofcourse we'll never know but it is possible...

" Religious Law of the day stated that "no man can forgive sins but God alone", and any claim to be able to do so was blasphemy, punishable by death. Therefore, the religious leaders (Pharisees) tried to kill Esu Immanuel on trumped-up charges. The real reason the Pharisees hated Esu was that the Truth he taught threatened their religious order. Note that Esu never claimed to be "The Christ", nor did he ever claim to forgive people's sins."

So this is about Sananda - as you see "Sananda" wants the reader to know that he was the "Jesus" and that he was not the "Christ" hmmm well didn't Jesus in the Bible ask the disciple who they think he is, and peter said "You are the one we have been waiting for, you are the Anointed One, the Son of God" and Jesus replied "Good, tell no one", hmmm dosen't Christ mean "the annointed one" - or am i just wrong? also Sananda claims that the "Jesus" he was never claimed to forgive sin. Really, because as i remember correctly the REAL Jesus forgave the adulterous woman - "thy sins are forgiven thee"- How many times has he said that?. Booyah! lol just happy i hit them hard!

PEOPLE PLEASE DON'T FIGHT OVER THE CHOICE I MADE TO REMAIN NEUTRAL. BECAUSE THE MORE YOU FIGHT IS NEVER GONNA CHANGE MY DISSION.

SO NO FIGHTING PLEASE. THANK YOU.

its not fighting and i can't force you in anyway.

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet."

So like i said i don't really care what anyones decision is - because its what YOU personally wanted.

First of all, someone here has made a great effort to talk about "channelers", and such nonsense. Show me one time when some "source" predicted with accuracy. They reveal
nothing useful, in that vain. Of course, mere abstractions are another matter. People can invent them all day.

I do think there is a spiritual component to the Universe, but channeling is as old as the oldest profession. Seuth sayers...

But, once again, there are some insights that are gained through the assistance of empathetic persons. But, professional or charasmatic psychics are often just revealing their own insights, masking as something else.

Someone needs to comment on what was said early in this thread, regarding art. It is true, about that one statue of Washington in a classical theme, being in poor taste. But, so is a lot of art. That particular piece was removed to a museum over a hundred years ago- no one liked it. Not because it is demonic, but because it is just a lousy example of junk that someone fostered off on a naive art patron.

The use of a raised arm is normal. In classical art, arms are portrayed in numerous positions. For example, gesturing, or dealing with a wound from battle. Images below of Octavius, and an Amazon both show this.

And, the statue of George Washington looking like Zeus is a copy of one of the wonders of the ancient world- a very tall representation of Zeus in a greek temple. The Romans
made a small copy based on records, a few hundred years later. That was the basis for the ill-portrayed first president.

A very different statue conveys Washington as the soldier-statesman-turned-gentleman farmer. It shows him giving up the items of power, while his leg rests against a plow.
This was because he was referred to as a Cincinnatus, who left his plow to save the Roman republic, then returned to private life. We all learned that in school. That is good public art.

Please don't mistake me as someone who "hates" George Washington - it is the statue i was talking about not him personally, i have read great books about him. So again please don't think of that from me.

I like your style of writing... I find it amazing how this page rises up to +4 pages every day

http://www.nesara.us/pages/peace_declared.html

Notice the "Peace Symbol" on the right corner - anyone no the history of that Symbol?

Thank you for clarifying that.

For the record, I do think that there is something about the Universe that is spiritual. It is what some would call intuitive, by understanding- in the heart and mind.

I don't think anyone really knows in this life, what there is in greater domains. But, I do believe in them, because of the intuitive experiences (just a few) I've known.

I also believe there are not only different kinds of people with opposing points of view, but some who live out an agenda to suppress the belief in greater, moral things. Some people are 'evil'. I do not know if they carry out some 'counter-spiritual agenda', ordained by 'evil' intelligences, or beings, or what have you. But, I know people who are rabidly anti-anything dealing with spirituality.

My sister is a fundamentalist, but not pushy. She is the one person I can talk to, to get
that point of view in a sensible way. She always makes it sound reasonable. I have no hard and fast beliefs, other than the feeling that their is much more than meets the eye, to this life. And, some of the basic ideas about Christianity make sense.

Great way to put it man, your sister as you said are one of the very few people like that in the world. make sure you don't argue back