I thought this might be an interesting topical evolution to the self sacrifice thread that has been revived in this forum.

Would you murder someone in order to save someone you love?
(edited to define the question to allude to a situation that is not to kill someone else in a loved one's self defense. But rather, outright cold blooded murder if it would save the one you love.)

If one would die (suicide) to save someone they love, and that is a choice to sacrifice a life, would one also commit to taking the life of someone else in order to save that same loved one they were willing to murder themselves for?

What would you do and why?


*edited for clarity. Thanks for the thought PFlack. *

I would kill to save my children....I would die to save them....god himself could not save anyone from me who ever harmed my children...

I would only kill for defense of life and that would not be murder, so no I would not murder another.

The second part of it I.F. when you said murder, I can't be sure it would be consdered murder, but - I would have to know exactly what was going to happen. If your innocent, and you kill someone to save someone you love, your not really murdering anyone. If you have love, you wouldn't be sensless or careless about that individual. It's basically, what you might call the enemy of course. To have a practical, reasonable definition for that person you have to kill, they would most likely have to be loveless, senseless, emotionless, evil ect. I know I wouldn't call it murder.

So, would I kill that person, yes- I would, but there is suicide in order to save someone else, and there is 'death before dishonor'.

yes i can say if my son was harmed i would murder to save him and i wouldnt even think of other ways to help him i would just do what my instict says and thats kill... im not a mean person but when it comes to my son or anyone i love i will do what needs to be done to help them and if murder is what needs to be done then so be it... i love my son sooooo much and i would do anything for him!

thank you PFlack for giving me the opportunity to realize I should have clarified my question was not regarding a scenario where one would have to choose whether or not to kill in defense of a loved one.


Rather, my question was intended to illicit replies as to whether one would cold blooded murder in order to save the one they love!?
After all, per the other thread that asks about self-sacrifice, that too can involve cold blooded murder only of ones self, rather than another, depending on the circumstances that would necessitate making such a dire, irrevocable choice.

This thread question is intended to illicit the level of commitment one has to the idea of that aforementioned "loved one", on the other side of the coin. Murder of another, rather than of one's self.

That is definitely against my religion.
He who does not love good more than his mother, his father, his sister, or his brother cannot be part of the kingdom of God.
It is also my personal belief and what is in my heart.
If the purpose of taking a life is not to save an intended victim from losing their life, then it is evil. To do so would be that person considering the personal desires and emotions of themself as of more far more value than the right of another to be even be alive.
It is inequality at its most extreme.

i would die to save my girlfriend, any time any day, and if anyone meant harm towards her i would also get rid of em, im way to protective over her lol

i would not muder someone because of the person i love but then i would try to save the person

Would I murder another person to save someone I love?

Depends on what they did to me personally.

If they irritated me in some way, then sure...they get an axe between the eyes.

If they haven't done squat, then...its really none of my business is it?

Everyone I care about is perfectly capable of taking care of and defending themselves.

I would never murder someone else to save another persons life. God decides when we live or die, and he would not give me the path to take someones elses life. If someone was going to kill me, I would not try to kill him first either. I could not live knowing I took someone elses life even if it meant saving myself. However, self sacrifice is much different.

yes, in a heartbeat i would a person for someone else

if someone tried to kill a girl I loved, I'd be sure to take them out by any means to save her, but I'd only take out the person/s trying to physically hurt her, and try not to get anyone else hurt in the process.

Oh I do so love "what if....?" questions.

Whenever these come up, it makes me think of little kids telling each other how that would be big brave heros.

While we all like to think that we would respond in "X" fashion in "Y" crisis, no one knows how they will truly react in a given situation until such situation actually arises. And then, you won't have time to think, only react.

I have a strong suspicion that the question posed is nothing more than a moral booby trap. "lets set up an extreme situation, and see how people will respond". tee hee.

The original poster is asking if we would commit the illegal act of murder to save someone we love, but defines the situation so that it is not in defense of the loved ones life. So, what are you asking? would I go out and kill a random person to save my wife or daughter? What an assinine scenario.

As I stated on the other thread, I would have no problem dropping the hammer on anyone who would attempt to take an innocents life, whether I knew to target or not. In my book, if someone is attempting to take anothers life, you have to use every means at your disposal to preserve the life of the almost victim. Is it murder? By a strict dictionary definition, yes. But, in a legal definition, it isn't.

And I'll take the legal version. And before any of the religious among us rise up in righteous indignation: If there is a god figure that has nothing better than to keep tabs on the actions of his/her/its creations, then I'm sure that defending another is a "plus" in the cosmic book.

Scrolling up would have given the original poster a name; Imaginary Friend.

Answering, after indicting the thread as positing an "asinine scenario" and thereby attempting an indictment of those that replied, would thereby put us all in your fine company!

WTG!

Now back to reality without lamer flamers.

Those who have read the news about body parts being robbed from the dead because organ transplants are lucrative business, have already witnessed the tendency for real life desperation in action. Not to mention those who have awakened and found themselves missing internal organs, like a Kidney, which one can survive without if the remaining organ is healthy.
These are desperate measures, taken to keep either a loved one or ones self alive.

The scenario of dying to save a loved one is just as valid as positing the question as to whether one would kill someone to save a loved one.

Sorry if you took it as flaming. I was referring to your scanario, not you personally. And, if you read my response, I didn't answer your thread, I reiterated what I had posted on another thread. Sorry if you were confused.

I just find that these type of posts, the "what if?" scenarios are not valid.

And this particular scenario even less so. So you are now asking "would you commit murder to harvest an organ?" How would you know if the person was compatible with your loved one?

What is the point you are trying to make? That we would become lawless to save someone? That we would sacrifice or values when our loved ones are on the line?

So why not give us your hypothetical answer Imaginary Friend. I for one, am curious.

Homer to marge in a memorable episode of the simpson:

''Please marge ask me to kill for you''

your 5 YO child needs an organ transplant to live, only an organ from your wife will work, and the operation will kill her, so the doctors won't do it... what do you do?

just wondering...

Good question! When I read the opening post, this is the scenario that pops into my head:

I am in a room. I have a gun. There is an innocent person tied up inside the room - a little child perhaps? Or an adult? It makes no matter. Outside the room is the one I love (a parent/child/spouse), also tied up, and someone else with a gun to their head. If I take the gun and shoot this stranger, the one whom I Love will not be harmed. If I do not murder this person, my Loved one will die.

That is the scenario as I see it. No lame-ass, cop-out "Oh, depending on the circumstances, they're trying to kill me and mine, so it's ok" response. Anyone can say they'd kill someone who intends them or their Love ones harm. In a sense, that's justified. This is plain, straight out, shoot (no, murder) a helpless, innocent person to save your Loved one.

My answer to this has to be No. I would not murder an innocent to save a loved one. This person also has family, people who care for them, who Love them. Do I have the right to take that from them? Just to selfishly save someone I know? No - I do not have that right. I will lose a special part of my life, but I WILL NOT deprive others of their Loved ones. Else, I am just as bad as the one who kills my dearly Loved.

Regards, PA

not only

Hmm, lets see...we've got a choice between a monstrous little brat (don't try to deny it parents - all 5 year olds are monstrous little brats) and a hot wife...hmm, decisions, decisions...

No need to be contrite, I know exactly what you said. And you are here yet again after saying it, asking people to expound on that which you initially judged a pointless asinine scenario. That can provide no confusion in what is patently obvious.

Indeed, and as is the complexion of life/death scenarios. Thank you Anson for your observation.

And, that is a very nice Avatar. Reminds me of the old masters and the likes of Van Gogh's textures.

Brilliant!!!!

I would do anything it takes to save my child...and I mean anything

I guess I'm confused. If you were 'saving' someone's life by killing someone...that is self defense. How can you murder someone to save someone?

Oh wow. I didn't realize that this was a "members only thread". Please, oh please forgive me for voicing my opinion on an open forum. It will never ever happen again.


But just for the record, you haven't stated your position yet.

Sure, but only in a life or death situation. When it comes down to that, I'm not going to listen to rational thinking or instincts. My logic in the situation would be to simply protect those I love unless it would cause a firestorm afterwards.

Besides, once the threat is crushed, you've got no regrets because they can't bother you anymore. Apathy for the dead.

People stretch ethics and morality into places it shouldn't be, then expect it to work. Some things just come down to the instinct and need for self-defense. If you're righteous enough to sacrifice yourself because of ethics and morality rather than defending someone, you probably have nothing to be righteous about in the first place.

Unless you're looking at it from a subjective point a view and the scale is uneven, murdering someone in self defense is completely reasonable. Either way, someone is going to die. Don't fool yourself into trying to do "The right thing", because that is subjective and different for each person.

I'm not usually violent, but I'm pretty sure I would.
I've never been put in that position and it would bother me a great deal if someone I loved was going to die (even though I know I'll see them again).

I would as well, in the what of the moment.

a couple of years ago a girl I was dating had a stalker. When she told me... If the freak had of been in my presence, I would have ended his life, just for the emotional pain he was causing her.

intresting topic, i can never kill anyone for any reason, unless i was going to die then and there if i didn't kill him/her.

it is my belief that if one kills, they will kill another person and then another after that. bloodlust and insane killings unjustified by thier pesonal goal(s).

I don't believe I would be capable of murder unless someone were harming my children.

Never.

If there was someone trying to attack and kill someone I knew or even a stranger, I would have no problem stopping that person, and if the only way to stop them was to kill them in the defense of an innocent or helpless person then of course I would do that.

But if it was a situation talked about in the opening post.... Where someone I loved was just sick or I knew they were going to die for whatever reason and I also knew that by randomly killing another person who had nothing to do with it would save their life, I would Never do that. Killing an innocent person just to save someone else is ridiculas and wrong no matter how you put it. I would never senslesly murder anyone. Extinguishing one life even to save another is still a pointless and evil act, end of story.

^^Someone's bound to mention this eventually - I just want your opinion (by "your" I don't only mean EssenceOfExcellence - everyone, feel free to respond....). If it is wrong under all circumstances to kill one person to save another, then how does that relate to the biblical story of Jesus, an innocent dying to save us, the guilty?

Just a thought.

*note to self - stop picking on Christianity! You're not doing yourself any favours*

Regards, PA

btw, don't worry - I have an answer/opinion to this. I just want some other response's to this before I give mine.

PA if you had kids you would give a quick answer...but try thinking if someone was going to really hurt your dear ole mom...what then?

This isn't about self-preservation. If someone were going to hurt my family, then I would stand up for them. But, as my earlier post in this thread went:

This thread is about murder. killing an innocent to save an innocent. I would protect my family from a person trying to inflict harm, and if it came to kill or be killed, who knows? But I would not, even for my child (maybe I'll change my tune when I actually have kids), kill someone else's child (for example) to save my own.

See what I'm saying?

That aside, the last post I made was actually focusing on how this relates to (according to Christian belief) Jesus dying for us, not about our personal attitudes and feelings.

Regards, PA

I hear ya now get back to your studies young man *cracks whip*

It was good then, because it was God saving us. God sent his only begotten son, who in fact is God, the Living Word, to save all mankind. Jesus wasn't just a man, he wasn't me or you or anybody else, he was divine, he took it upon himself to die for our sins. It was a self sacrafice to save everyone, basicly it was just what all you other people were saying: If someone was trying to kill your family members you'd kill someone who was trying to attack them if you had to. Or think of it this way......someone in your family or maybe a girlfriend or a spouse was about to die and someone gave you a choice, either let that person die, or die for them so they can live. That's kind of like what Jesus did, he died so that everyone can live. It wasn't murder to stop a murder, it was a self sacrafic to save the whole world.

Plus, when we're talking about someone who dies and then comes back to life on the third day, it kind of nullifies the whole thing. If the person you killed would just come back to life in a few days, then there really isn't a big cosmic deal; it would just be like knocking them un concious for a few days; but the initial act would still be wrong. (killing a regular person that would just come back, not the act of Jesus dieing for us, that was the will of God, it was planned and a loving act).

Depends on who I'd be killing, if it was the person who was trying to harm the person I loved then yes, in a dead instant I would.

Yes.
If I'm holding the gun and its them or the person I love,
Then its them who gets the bullet.
And no guilt.

Well I dont believe in love. But I would kill someone to save somone in my circle (or pack).
I would even kill someone if I was hungry and they wouldnt give up there food.

But then again I am a beast. So theres no such thing as murder just survival; which means I have to keep me and those I need alive.



Never did like the Roman jesus. I much perfer the gnostic jesus. Now that Jesus didnt die for sins but came under the curse to show the way.
Not sure if he was "The Son", a son of god or a realy good parable.

I'd murder someone, for the right price of course

well when some one harms my son i decide when the person lives or dies... and if some one was gonna try to kill me its going to be them first i could be a cold bloded killer if needed.... and my son is 4 months so theres no way he can defend himself im all hes got.