You need to back up a bit and try to comprehend the article and this thread if you want to make on topic posts.

Maybe you have a friend or relative that could explain it to you in a way you will understand. I have tried to, but you are having difficulty understanding basic ideas from earlier in the thread. I don't like to be rude, but you don't seem to pay attention and then you get belligerent when people try to help you understand.

DAMNIT your just fueling his fire!

I am not close minded, but I need more proof then teenagers stories.

Maybe you are the one that should realize that you are wrong.

Mind_Freak, I completely respect your reasoning and intelligent approach to the topic. There is nothing wrong with being a skeptic, which I think you clearly are. I like to think of myself as a skeptic too, but in regard to telepathy I am convinced. At some point (if not now) there will be a preponderance of evidence. When that happens you will have nothing to apologize for.

You are in no way a skeptic. To say that gives skeptics a bad name.

I'm not a skeptic... Oh, no matter how many times I say it you still will think of me as one...
I'm not... I'm just not gullible...You can't categorize me with others here... I'm in a category by myself. There are certain things I beleive, and certain things I have the potential to believe, but am not quite there yet...

BTW:
Skeptic:
One who habitually questions or doubts...


^ I don't continuously doubt things. I question things that raise my curiousity, or I find to be unlikely. As far as I'm concerned, anything is possible. The truth is, i just want to be sure. That's it, no questions. Just sure. And with the evidence backing this stuff up, I can't be sure because there are many factors involved. I don't like being wrong, so if I'm going to say I believe in something, I'm gonna do everything in my power to make sure it's true first... It's really not that hard to understand... I'm not a skeptic. I'm Mind Freak.

LoL eric your the one who doesnt believe anything outside his pikit fence!

BTW we are all atleast a little close minded to say you are not close minded is only a representation of your close minded attitude.

I can believe with proof. Something you don't have and never will. Imagination is a wonderful thing.

Yah uhm these thoughts of belief dont take place in my imagination. You use imagination as a metaphor for me playing games like a little kid, I am not.

We know you are a kid. Kid's have imaginations. Or are you going to lie again. Like the other one I caught you in.

hehe Triad hasnt had a chance to talk because Debunkers have no point! lol

Decided to side step my post. Figures.

Debunkers take the 'bunk' out of things... That's what they do...

Good thing this isnt bunk

Bunk fits it quite well.

I think I hear a little bird chirping?

Yeah its saying X man.

I have spent a good part of my life educating myself...and with that said..I used to think if I learned enough, I would figure this whole thing called life out. But, thousands of dollars later, I realize that I never was close to the heart-felt and soulful truth of having the beginnings of wisdom until I began my spiritual journey in earnest. My personal NDE and OBE's have taught me more in SECONDS than I ever achieved with a decade of school. I may be able to have a decent paying job , but to have peace in my heart and soul is worth more than anything.
It ain't about the money
I suppose it fit me because I was a curious learner who loved to learn, so I took advantage of my abilities.

I can say that education opened my intellect to the varieties of life and the various phenomena that occur, and my mind is more open after having learned a lot about nothing much! I really know NOTHING and I definitely overpaid for my education. Ha ha!

I don't equate intellect with enlightenment. There must be balance between the intellect and other aspects of the self. You may not have even been alluding to that in your post, I just wanted to add my 2 cents.

I will leave with a personal favorite by Huang Po:


Blessings

No offense, Turtle, but in my opinion, that quote does nothing but suggest that you stop using your own mind and logic. But by doing that, you're leaving it open to all kinds of bogus beliefs and theories, and accepting them.

Would that same quote be used as a word of advise for someone who is seeking their dream job? No! That would be saying: "sit back, do nothing, and let it all land on your doorstep without trying, nor questioning it". It doesn't work like that.

No worries Tornado, I never take offense to posts, especially ones that are written in your elloquitte style.

I agree with you that you leave yourself open to a whole pile of bogus claims and beliefs, which can leave you more confused, but only if you give them sustenance.
I tend to not attatch any form of belief or disbelief to anything and merely them them be for what they are, an idea or thought that has no bearing on me personally, unless I allow it to.
Your inner intuition, when you trust it, allows you to separate the meat from the bs.
When you learn to trust your inner feelings, or what I call resonances, then your path is opened up to new ideas and thoughts.
The maxim, to know thyself, rings true and essentially is your goal. To know yourself is to know all.

now in relation to your last paragraph, I will relate a brief (honest) history of what has transpired in my life.
Up until last week I may have agreed with you on that point, but too much has happened for me to now agree..
Over the course of the past several months I had become disillusioned in my current position.
I was working for a friend, and my hours were being cut.
This made me fall behind on bills and rent, which caused my roommate to become concerned and then he gave notice he was moving.
Here I was 2 months behind on my portion of the rent, a roommate moving out, and no job that could support me keeping the apartment on my own.
Since I have no personal incumbrances, other than a mother, whom lives nearby. I decided to throw my hands up and let the universe decide my next location.
Where can I be of the best use to use my skills for the betterment of others was my prayer.
I could work anywhere, do anything, so why not just approach this as a test.
I decided that i had had enough in just "finding anything" and searched deep inside me as to what I actually wanted to do.
I looked for jobs out west, for jobs that tied me back to nature, the pay meant nothing.
Everything I found that warranted me to move far away, never materialized.
Then one saturday (three weeks to go before my apartment had to be vacated), I was getting worried.
Still no place to live, still no direction was forthcoming.
Still I was not worried, because I sensed that something will come along.
One Saturday, i noticed a job where they were looking for a barn manager at a horse farm.
I used to race horses, but this was a different breed and I had no "work" experience to offer.
I applied anyway.
The guy called me a day later to arrange an interview.
I went and being empathic, noticed he too was empathic.
I could feel him probe me, and I knew then and there that I was going to get the job.
He could sense my abilities, and I could sense his, yet we never spoke of our own intuitions.
The interview went well, we left with him saying that he was "confortable".
A follow up interview was held 2 days later with the daughter of the owner.
That interview went well, but there was hesitation in her, and she left it at that would call me the next day.
I was worried that my work history frightens her, as they were looking for a manager with 2 years experience.
After I left the interview I was driving back home, turned on the radio and the song playing was "Your heading for a better life"...Coincidence... perhaps, but I doubt it.

I got the job 2 days later
It turns out that the job comes with a residence, which is included.
The Job starts on the day i have to have my apartment vacated.
Deep down I know I am supposed to be there.
two weeks ago, I would never in my life imagined myself as a manager of a 30 horse farm, but I am.

Take this yarn for what it's worth, but I believe that your path will open up to you if you truly allow it to.

Blessings

That's a nice story. The thing is, what does that mean for the people whom, like myself, are working hard and CHASING the things they want? Does it all just 'fall in their lap' if they "open their path"?

As great as your story is (and I'm truly happy for you that it worked out), I find it hard to believe that this was more than just coincidence. At the end of the day, you were looking for work. You found it, even if only part of it was through subconscious worry. I mean, you say you sensed that something good was coming. The point is, you still had to look to find the job. If you were looking, then it was YOU who made it happen. Not fate or some great higher force. In other words, you didn't just sit back and let it come to you - not really.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

I know what you mean, and yes, we also have to do our part, but I found out that when you stop "chasing" it, demanding it, forcing it, you find it.
If you force it, or demand it, do you then pick something not meant for you?
Look for signs, mine was a ladybug (in Native american terms as a sign)
Signs come to you if you learn how to identify them.

Okay, Turtle. What about this one (my own experience):

I've had a thing about tornadoes (figures ) and weather phenomena since I was a kid, and last year, I enrolled in a MST course to gain my qualifications before I attempt the meteorology course.

Anyway, May or June last year, I was on my way to Norfolk to visit the in-laws. It was sunny and still. About 20 minutes from my destination, the weather suddenly changed. There was a thick black line of cloud in the distance - kind of eerie - and the wind picked up very fast. Within a minute or so, the clouds were over me and the rain heaved down hard.

As I looked around, I noticed a white/grey 'whisp' coming out of the black cloud in the distance. I was pretty excited even though crappy weather isn't exactly strange over here, lol (I've studied the signs enough to know the difference between "crappy" and "strange"). I put my foot down and drove around the country roads to catch up with this 'whisp' until I eventually parked next to an open field with a bungalow just in front. I got out of the car to find that the 'whisp' had formed a funnel, and was working it's way down to the ground (although this never touched down) and it was no more than a mile away. It lasted a matter of minutes and I was hysterical. Passing cars would have thought I was crazy. The guy in the bungalow even came running out to see if his home was on fire because I was screaming and jumping around with excitement.

My point being; this tornado that I saw was my first (something I have always dreamed of seeing), and it was literally 3 days before I started my MST course.

Would you, personally, class this as a sign? or just coincidence? Bearing in mind that this happened in Norfolk - open, flat, farmland-type county. It's probably the most ideal place for tornadoes to form. Was I just in the right place at the right time? or do you think there is more to it?



Sorry. Just a little story I thought could be on par with Turtle's.

Very interesting story, and I believe that signs come to you in a way that you can readily understand them.

In my instance, since I follow and learned native american animal symbols my information came to me that way.
Ladybug: The Ladybug

The ladybug is a member of the beetle family. They are found in nearly all climates and latitudes. They are hemispheric in shape, have short legs and are usually bright colored with black, yellow or reddish markings. Most reproduce sexually and females lay eggs. Their life cycle requires about four weeks, so several generations are produced each summer. This ties the ladybug to the energies of renewal and regeneration. Those with this totem are usually family oriented with strong morals and social values.

The name lady bug originated in the middle ages when this beetle was dedicated to the Virgin Mary and called the "beetle of our lady." This links the ladybug to spiritual idealism and religious devotion. Past lives associated with religion or the church are common for those with this medicine and some form of daily meditation or prayer are recommended.

This tiny little beetle packs a powerful message. Because the life cycle of the adult ladybug is short it teaches us how to release our worry and enjoy our life to the fullest. When it appears in our life it is telling us to "let go and let God."

An adult ladybug can consume several thousand aphids and other scale insects within a few months. Since these can be harmful to crop production farmers and growers have long considered the ladybug a good omen. Because of its diet the ladybug often has parasites and those with this medicine need to take care of their digestive system.

The ladybug is one of the few beetles that are well liked by humans. Unlike other beetles, the ladybug stirs a feeling of joy within us. Its small size denotes a delicate and loving nature. It emanates the energy of harmlessness and can show us how to stop harming ourselves.

The shell on its back serves to protect it from predators. Its wings fold against the body protecting its soft underside. Ladybugs have keen instincts and feel vibrations through their legs. This enables them to sense the energy of whatever they touch and is another form of protection. In spite of its size it appears to be fearless. A messenger of promise, the ladybug reconnects us with the joy of living. Fear does not live within joy. The need to release our fears and return to love is one of the messages it carries.

Ladybug teaches us how to restore our faith and trust in great spirit. It initiates change where it is needed the most. When ladybug appears it is asking us to get out of our own way and allow great spirit to enter.

See what i mean.
When I first saw the job posting, in my mind I figured I didn't have the qualifications to apply for it.
It was then that i went outside for a smoke, and the ladybug appeared at my feet (minus 10 and very windy but when I looked down, there it was right at my feet.
Let go and let god.....
I let go of the thought that i wouldn't get the job, and applied....
Further I guess you could say that i was questioning my own abilities on whether I could do the job (fear).

When the ladybug again appeared to me I knew that I had to let go of the things that were stopping me......fear.

I let go and let god do and voila....

Now your story is equally compelling because i think you to were sent a sign.
Reacting how you did though I can see your education as a step in the direction you are going to go, but think your excitement tells me that your education is but a step to your true calling. You appear to be on the right path.
I can see you chasing them for a living...

Yes, I can see why people would use the Ladybug/bird(UK) as a symbol in this regard. However, all I can say is that, although I'm not one for "signs", I can understand how this can give others' the confidence to pursue something if they believe in this theory (I'm not being argumentative. It's the way I think). Right now, I see it as a placebo - nothing more, although for it to be more is a nice thought.


That's nice to know, although in my opinion, it's easy to say that after reading the story. Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative. Although I wont deny that something kind of 'clicks', if you get me?

Both stories were fun to read. Coincidences do occur, it's a statistical requirement. On the other hand there have been certain sequences of events that make me wonder if coincidence is the most likely reason. Maybe there is more to it. Turtle, your story sounds like all the planets lined up, not only that, but at the last minute. It's at least gotta make ya wonder.

Yes it does make one to wonder, but too much has happened to me over the course of the last few years to say the word wonder, or coincidence anymore.

In some ways I agree with you - not saying I'm backing down, lol - as, if I'm honest with you; there was a moment when I wondered if the tornado sighting was more than just coincidence. Yes, I've now told myself otherwise, but I did wonder. Especially when I take into account that I had always dreamed of seeing one. I've had countless dreams about them (the actual reason I discovered UM - tornado dreams thread).

Leading up to the day I started my course, I'd had doubts about whether meteorology was within my capabilities (I am yet to finish the MST course before I go onto meteorology). I had considered taking another route. But to see that tornado (my first time EVER) - literally a matter of days before the starting date of the course - was overwhelming for me. They all slid into place so coincidentally - or not?

I've said it before and I'm sure that this isn't the last time I'll say it. I'm not an all-round skeptic (if I should label myself as a skeptic at all?). I've always had beliefs in things, yet this area is where I find that logic is overtaking. But if I'm honest, the sighting was too far out - given the time that it happened.

You're right. It does make you wonder to a degree.

My maxim:
When we believe, then we will see.

The fact is the study provides evidence beyond chance, the percentile of chance is one in four, and this study exceeds that percentile.

To suggest that because it is about one in four is insignificant misrepresents the reality of the situation, in relation to thousands of trials (Individual human beings) in a test, in which a double blind was preformed.

Any thoughts?

It looks like BioMage is the only poster to this thread that refuses to accept the article you linked as being evidence.

He's known for being in denial of anything that goes against his beliefs. He wouldn't change his belief in the paranormal if someone lifted him off the ground with their minds.

Actually Bio-mage's responses are not statistically significant.... To be clear my effort is not to flame but rather to present the reality of the situation that the paranormal is not pseudo science.

Any thoughts?

I disagree that the "paranormal" is not a pseudo science, only in the sense that it hasn't developed to that poin yet, much like psychology. As this must be the third time I've made a statement along these lines on this thread, I'll leave it at that.

Thats because the posters here are not exactly prime examples of rational thought. Other than that, I trashed this evidence already, so why you keep posting here is beyond me.



If these people had any uncanny ability to guess those people, they shoulld really get it right almost any time. Everything else is wishful thinking. The blindfold menas nothing if they are using their alleged telepathy...yes?



Wanna try first because you jump to conclusions? Or maybe you care to to demonstrate...oh I am sorry I forgot...you can't because none of you can actually do that.

Who is the one in denial buddy?



I already saw how "good" you grasp of statistics is. Paranormal started as pseudo science but there is no need to continue as such.

You all need to lay of the super human routine and useless random statistics and help to submit something conclusive. Otherwise you can linger on this forum and gang like little kids that rebel against the world....until they "grow" up that is

Yes, it seems you automatically trash everything you don't believe in, and without regard for the truth. Then you often add insults as if that supports your belief. Those are considered bad habits among educated people.

I agree. In my opinion, an "ability" is something that is evident for a high majority of the time. You can either do it, or you can't - not do it some, or a small fraction, of the time.

I honestly don't see how this evidence shows anything more than just a few lucky guesses, and a ton of guesses that have resulted in error.

Their ability, I would assume, should be consistent with maybe the occasional error.

Being empathic, I sit down with you and reveal to you what I sense.
How many times will you deny something that is actually true...because it is so deeply hidden within you you yourself have convinced yourself to be true.
Just because you have convinced yourself, in order to hide a deeper truth, doesn't make it the truth.
When you discover how you, yourself, operate and use your ego to protect you from things hidden and locked away and address them, you will continue to deny things that at a soul level ring true.
Although the truth has indeed been revealed to you, you yourself still deny.
Go figure.
The truth is not the truth if it is become the truth to hide a deeper hurt you refuse to come to terms with.
This is why there is so much "error"

How about you stop bashing people and have a worthwhile, civil discussion. Just because this isn't the believers board does not mean you have the right to show lack of respect or intelligence. I have no regrets pressing the report button on your posts.

Report away, I didn't bash. I've seen many skeptics call believers cooks and delusional wackos. And I didn't even bash him! =)


All I said in a nutshell is that he'd deny anything that supports psi/paranormal because they don't fit his current beliefs.



EDIT: I just read what you quoted, Raven. None of it even looks close to bashing. How long have you been here?

I agree with you Zero but you being you leaves a little bit to be desired.



This is the same thing you have done about religious issues that you do not agree with.



What has that got to do with it? Not a thing

Raven's post is kind of funny really. 7 minutes later, in another thread he posted this:

Ouch! That might hurt someones feelings. lol

Only when they say extremley rude things about someone's religion. Such as how it should have never existed and things of the sort.




Everyone desires more Zero. They just can't get enough.



If you're talking about when I said "How long have you been here?", then yes it does have something to do with the subject at hand. If she was here long enough, she'd know these types of comments are common here.

Since we are on the subject, I offer a small compilation from this thread alone, of biomages insults. Just in the interest of balance.


I don't suppose these posts were reported to the mods. Raven?

^^^^

That's worse than what we said put together.

i support...

If we want to bring this thread back from the brink of closure you should look to the first post. There you will find a link to credible evidence in support of psychic phenomena.

The thread creator has stated a willingness to defend the validity of the article. If anyone has intelligent and thoughtful criticism concerning the validity please offer it. Otherwise it appears we have a general consensus that the article does offer evidence.

If believers had evidence they wouldnt be believers

March, 2004. Been active nearly every day since then.

As Seraphina says: "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."


No, they were not reported to the moderators. They are aware of this thread, though.



Opinion and picking on people are different things. If you didn't notice in a post near that, I also admitted "I am a hypocrit."