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Hermetic Hermit
Polytheistic Origins of YHWH

For decades, scholars have tried to penetrate the Bible's story about Israelite monotheism. According to traditional interpretations of the Bible, monotheism was part of Israel's original covenant with Yahweh on Mount Sinai, and the idolatry subsequently criticized by the prophets was due to Israel's backsliding from its own heritage and history with Yahweh. However, scholars have long noted that beneath this presentation lies a number of questions. Why do the Ten Commandments command that there should be no other gods "before Me" (the Lord), if there are no other gods as claimed by other biblical texts? Why should the Israelites sing at the crossing of the Red Sea that "there is no god like You, O Lord?" (Exodus 15:11). Such passages suggest that Israelites knew about other gods and did not simply reject them. It seems that Israelites may have known of other deities and perhaps various passages suggest that behind the Bible's broader picture of monotheism was a spectrum of polytheisms that centered on the worship of Yahweh as the pantheon's greatest figure.

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Elohim

Elohim is a Hebrew word related to deity, but whose exact significance is often disputed. It is the third word in the Hebrew text of Genesis and occurs frequently throughout the Hebrew Bible. In some cases (Exodus 3:4), it clearly denotes the God of Israel. In other cases (Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.), it refers to the polytheistic notion of multiple gods. In still other cases (Genesis 6:2), the meaning is not clear from the text, but may refer to powerful beings. In most English translations of the Bible (King James Version), the letter G in "god" is capitalized when the first meaning is implied, but there is no distinction between upper and lower case in the Hebrew text.

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El (god)

El is a northwest Semitic word and name translated into English as either 'god' or 'God' or left untranslated as El, depending on the context.

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Henotheism

Henotheism is the belief in several gods or supernatural entities, while ascribing supremacy to just one. It is derived from the Greek heis theos, "one god", or kath heno theon, "one god at a time", and thus is also called "kathenotheism". It was coined by Max Müller in the nineteenth century to describe aspects of early Hinduism that he believed were attested to in the Rig Veda. Henotheism is similar but less exclusive than monolatry because a monolator worships only one god, while the henotheist may worship any within the pantheon, depending on circumstances. In some belief systems, the choice of the supreme deity within a henotheistic framework may be determined by cultural, geographical, or political reasons. While some religions, such as the early Israelite beliefs, have been described as "monolatrous" or "de facto monotheism", they may also be understood as henotheistic.

Henotheism in Israelite Beliefs

It is generally uncontroversial that many of the Iron Age religions found in the land of Israel were henotheistic in practice. For example, the Moabites worshipped the god, Chemosh, the Edomites, Qaus, both of whom were part of the greater Canaanite pantheon, headed by the chief god, El. The Canaanite pantheon consisted of El and Asherat as the chief deities, with 70 sons who were said to rule over each of the nations of the earth. These sons were the national gods worshipped within each region.

More recently, M.S. Smith's synthesis of the Hebrew religion in the Iron Age has put forward the case that it, like those around it, was also henotheistic. The discovery of artifacts at Kuntillet 'Ajrud and Khirbet El-Qom have arguably shown that in at least some sections of Israelite society, Yahweh and Asherah were believed to coexist as a divine couple. Further evidence of an understanding of Yahweh existing within the Canaanite pantheon derives from syncretistic myths found within the Hebrew Bible itself. Various battles between Yahweh and Leviathan, Mot, the tanninim, and Yamm are already attested in the 14th century B.C.E. texts found at Ugarit (ancient Ras-Shamra). In some cases, Yahweh had replaced Baal, and in others, he had taken El's roles.

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Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


Genesis 3:22

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.


Deuteronomy 10:17

For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward.


1 Kings 20:23

And the servants of the king of Syria said unto him, Their gods are gods of the hills; therefore they were stronger than we; but let us fight against them in the plain, and surely we shall be stronger than they.


Psalm 82:1 * 82:5-8

God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

*

They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High.

But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.


Deuteronomy 32:8-10

When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye.


Deuteronomy 32:8 (Dead Sea Scrolls) Deuteronomy 32:9-10

When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all mankind, he set up boundaries for the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.

For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye.



user posted image

Jesus Son of the Most High

Luke 1:31-35

And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David.

And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


Luke 8:26-28

And they arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is over against Galilee.

And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils for a long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.

When he saw Jesus, he cried out, fell down before Him, and with a loud voice said, "What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You, do not torment me!"


Luke 6:35-39

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.

And He spoke a parable to them: "Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into the ditch?
Dark Bloody Wind Goddess Haruka
wrong section should be in Spirituality & Skepticism just move it there
Hermetic Hermit
QUOTE(Dark Bloody Wind Goddess Haruka @ Mar 23 2006, 11:53 AM) [snapback]1117448[/snapback]

wrong section should be in Spirituality & Skepticism just move it there


I do see your point but I disagree.

This is one of the oldest conspiracies in Christianity's history. Not to mention, knowledge held by "Secret Societies".

Thank you for the reply, any comments?
speaker of the house
QUOTE(Hermetic Hermit @ Mar 23 2006, 03:21 PM) [snapback]1117536[/snapback]

I do see your point but I disagree.

This is one of the oldest conspiracies in Christianity's history. Not to mention, knowledge held by "Secret Societies".

Thank you for the reply, any comments?



I'm sorry....could you give me the conspiracy again...I have A.D.D and can't read all that...also I'm not very smart so I need you to break it down all simple like. Thanks in advance.
Hermetic Hermit
QUOTE(speaker of the house @ Mar 23 2006, 01:09 PM) [snapback]1117628[/snapback]

I'm sorry....could you give me the conspiracy again...I have A.D.D and can't read all that...also I'm not very smart so I need you to break it down all simple like. Thanks in advance.


Sure, since you asked nicely.

1.)

YHWH(Yahweh/Jehovah) was at one time a tribal god and one of many gods in a pantheon, who later became(assumed the role of, through his followers) the Supreme Deity(The God Most High, The Highest).

Exodus 20:3

You shall have no other gods before Me

Exodus 20:5

You shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me.


2.)

The "God" of Jesus was not YHWH. He never claimed to worship YHWH nor did he claim to be the Son of the Old Testament God.

He was the Son of Man.

He was the Son of The Highest(The Father).

All humans can be Sons of The Highest.


3.)

The God of the Old Testament and the the New Testament are obviously two entirely different deities.


4.)

This is nothing new to certain groups.




Added Notes:

The RC Chuch created this story to sell their new religion.

The RC Church burned, tortured and suppressed any early Christian groups that knew the truth and thus proved that they do not know The Father.


Luke 6:35-36

But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.


John 8:54

Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God.

Irish
QUOTE(Hermetic Hermit @ Mar 23 2006, 03:55 PM) [snapback]1117812[/snapback]


The "God" of Jesus was not YHWH. He never claimed to worship YHWH nor did he claim to be the Son of the Old Testament God.

He was the Son of Man.

He was the Son of The Highest(The Father).

All humans can be Sons of The Highest.
3.)

The God of the Old Testament and the the New Testament are obviously two entirely different deities.
4.)

This is nothing new to certain groups.
Added Notes:

The RC Chuch created this story to sell their new religion.

The RC Church burned, tortured and suppressed any early Christian groups that knew the truth and thus proved that they do not know The Father.
Luke 6:35-36

But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
John 8:54

Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God.

I have to ask you since Jesus was a Jew why would He be speaking of a different God?
Hermetic Hermit
QUOTE(Irish @ Mar 23 2006, 03:08 PM) [snapback]1117831[/snapback]

I have to ask you since Jesus was a Jew why would He be speaking of a different God?


Are you speaking of Jew(genetically) or Jew(religiously)?

Is someone born a Muslim? Can a Muslim convert to another religion?


John 8

17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

*

28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

*

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed.

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

*

37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.


speaker of the house
Thanks for dumbing it down for me...I get what you are saying now....

But...theres a book out right now dealing with the fact that the bible is a living thing (metaphorically speaking) it has changed, grown, stories added, and stories taken out throughout the years...I guess I'm saying...what difference does it make what the Bible Says...it was written by Hundreds of different authors with variable views on the world and what was going on, translated into hundreds of different languages, and before technological wonder of the paper press, these were all transcribed by "intellectuals" who also added their own views...I'm not saying Christianity is a false religon..haven't really looked into it that much...I'm just saying....maybe we shouldn't take everything in the bible as the actual Word of God....
Hermetic Hermit
QUOTE(speaker of the house @ Mar 23 2006, 04:49 PM) [snapback]1117955[/snapback]

Thanks for dumbing it down for me...I get what you are saying now....

But...theres a book out right now dealing with the fact that the bible is a living thing (metaphorically speaking) it has changed, grown, stories added, and stories taken out throughout the years...I guess I'm saying...what difference does it make what the Bible Says...it was written by Hundreds of different authors with variable views on the world and what was going on, translated into hundreds of different languages, and before technological wonder of the paper press, these were all transcribed by "intellectuals" who also added their own views...I'm not saying Christianity is a false religon..haven't really looked into it that much...I'm just saying....maybe we shouldn't take everything in the bible as the actual Word of God....


You're welcome and I agree. The Bible has been changing since its creation, I can assure you I don't see it as the word of God.

But there are some truths left. There was more "spin" than fabrication involved.

When these truths are revealed the contradictions in the Bible begin to make sense.

For example....

Exodus 3:4 3:6

When the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, "Moses, Moses!" And he said, "Here I am."

Moreover He said, "I am the God of your father--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.

but...

John 5:37

And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

It is no contradiction in my mind.

When these contradictions are reconciled, what emerges reveals similarities and consistencies between Christianity and other Philosophies which I see as very important.

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