What about atrocities that have been done in the name of religion?
by Rich Deem
IntroductionMany atheists claim that religion is evil and, as such, cannot be from God. It is true that there are many examples of evil committed in the name of Christianity. In the past, those who disagreed with "official" church doctrine, such as Galileo were persecuted or killed. Many other Christians were brought before the Inquisition because they were teaching from the Bible instead of from "officially sanctioned" Roman Catholic Church materials. In addition, the Crusades resulted in "holy" wars between "Christians," Jews, and Moslems. In more modern times, wars have been fought between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland and between Jews and Arabs in the Middle East. However, common to all this violence was an underlying struggle for power. Today, some people kill abortionists in the name of God. Are these people unwilling pawns of religion or using religion to justify their own evil agendas?

Humanities atrocitiesTherefore, I absolutely agree with atheists and others who say that many atrocious things have been done in the name of God, even in the name of Christianity. However, these atrocities were not perpetrated by God, but by evil human beings. In fact, if you examine the atrocities perpetrated by atheists, you find that they have killed more people in the last century than all of the crimes of 2000 years of "church" history combined. Joseph Stalin killed 20 million Soviet citizens between 1929 and 1939 because they were not politically correct. Mao Tse-tung killed 34 to 62 million Chinese during the Chinese civil war of the 1930s and 1940s. Pol Pot, the leader of the Marxist regime in Cambodia, Kampuchea, in the 1970's killed 1.7 million of his own people. In fact, the Pol Pot regime specifically preached atheism and sought to exterminate all religious expression in Cambodia.1 This last example of atheist-led atrocities by itself resulted in the deaths of more people than those who were killed by 2000 years of "Christian" atrocities. Should atheism be blamed for the atrocities of a few prominent atheists?

Jesus Himself addressed the issue of "Christians," performing evil deeds in a rather chilling prophecy:

"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'" (Matthew 7:22-23)

One should note that Jesus said that "many" people who think they are His followers will be rejected by Jesus when they attempt to claim to be His disciples at the judgment. Not all who claim the name of Jesus are actually His disciples. My guess is that in even the best of Christian churches only about half of the people have been truly born again (see John chapter 3).2 Christianity should be judged on the basis of what Jesus said and did, not on the basis of the actions of people who merely claim to be Christians. I would suggest getting the book Foxe's Book of Martyrs, which details the deaths of Christians who were killed because of their faith in Christ, in many cases by people claiming to be Christians.

How do you know if a person is a Christian or not?We cannot know for certain whether a person is or is not a true Christian (only God can makes such a determination).3 However, the Bible describes the nature of a person who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit4 (which happens at the point a person accept Jesus as Lord and Savior):

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23)

In addition, the true believer does what is right and demonstrates love toward others.5 Even non-believers can readily see who the true Christians are. Ultimately, the behavior of those who claim to be Christians but practice evil should not be a consideration in determining if the claims of Christ are true or not.

Source

As a non believer iv said many times and firmly believe

Good people do Good things Bad people do Bad things but it takes religion for good people to do Bad things

I think religion has often been the excuse of evil men. (Inquisition, Crusades, etc...)

However evil as construed in the minds of men, is the responsibility of the individual that believes itself capable and acts as that evil. Whether it be under the guise of religion or otherwise. I see evil as a disconnect from the source that acts against its own best interests.

But that would depend on your definition of religion. Often I see that the word religion is singled out as the great evil and plight of mankind. Wars murder and whatever all started because of religions, is far too simple of an explanation. Remember that religion by definition is only a structured form of belief and actions that is shared and practiced by others. Bearing that in mind then politics’ and philosophy are also forms of religious/belief as well as our government structures that are the foundation of civilization. Our believes, encompass all religions, politics, philosophy and art and if you lay blame on only one part of human belief systems while ignoring the others your are simply using it as an excuse to hide your personal biases. And as such you are denying the very core of human civilization.
Irish

I am sure that the majority of Soviets thought they were working towards a higher good. Those bad things done by good people had nothing to do with a religion.

Many American atheists do not see their contempt and endless ridicule and harassment of religious people as doing anything wrong and believe they are working towards a higher good also.

Bella, before you get your hackles up, I am saying this as a Theist. Maybe they are only returning the contempt and endless ridicule and harrassment of them by the religious. I know that I have similar problems with Christians simply because I follow another belief system. I have seen that most Christians do not see their actions in this matter as doing any thing wrong. So what is the difference?

There is no difference.
I do not believe in justifiable persecution for one's belief system anymore than I believe in reverse racism.
It is all the same, regardless of its origins.

On the side, consider this. To many Trinitarian fundementalists an atheist is a lost sheep but Deists or Unitarians are both dangerous heretics who try to lead believers astray with confusion through the use of blasphemy. As a Unitarian I see the same things that you see and am spoken to in the same manner by others more often than you might think.

The words "forgive them for they do not know" have helped me keep peace many times through the years. Many of the good people of other beliefs have probably thought the same towards me at times.

LOL. We may not always agree on history, but I am with you 100% on this matter....

Its not Religion but the people who are in charge of the religions, and the people who follow them.

In reference to the question, evil men are to blame for their own atrocities. They are after all, the ones that make the decisions, not God, and definitely not a book.

It is not that power corrupts. It attracts the corruptable. It is magnetic to pathelogical personalities. So whether it be organized religion or government you always have the worst people trying to scrabble the hardest to the top.............It comes down to this. People, not religion or government are the problem.


Lapi'che

Excellent!
People are what give life to the religions that claim their god said they had right to take it away from other people. Governments...same thing.

The atheists will always have their Maos. The Catholics' their St Dominic Guzmans and the fringe will always have their Jim Jones. The Pilgrims burned many Quakers as witches. The Presbytarians had their Paxton Boys and the Methodists had their Pastor Chivington who slaughtered women and children among the Indians . Shiites kill Sunnis etc. It is people themselves and no particular doctrine or group.

Lapi'che

Very true Piney and Yel

Indeed I read you the first time. People. What do you think it is that creates those doctrines or groups so that; "Atheists" shall always have their Mao's, and "Catholics" their Saint Dominic's, and the fringe their Jim Jones, etc...?

Just as it is people that post threads that incite commentary so as to manifest the opportunity to yet again preach in their own way the "one faith" yet again and amid the diverse culture and non/religiously inclined that attends this board, which ultimately invigorates life into ....what? The faith or the people that have faith?

It is the people certainly. It has obviously and always been the people.

I would just like to point out Irish, regarding your main post, that the conflict between Jews and Muslims in the Middle-East is not view as a religious struggle by Jews there, because the Jews who came to settle that land were atheists, and even today most of them are non believers.
It could be said that the conflict is viewed as national in the eyes of the Jews, and as religious in the eyes of the muslims.

I did not know the Atheist/non-believers today, part of Israels history and settlement of Palestine. With all respect, as I am going on what we (U.S.) have been told about the history and conflict, when I ask; how do you know this is the case, given we are to believe the Jews settled there because god told them too? *wandering 40 years in the desert, etc...* <Which was actually alludes to time enough to kill off the first generation and begin , literally, with a new. (If non-believers, then isn't this a bit off as a causal scenario?)
Thank you for your consideration of my question.

I agree for the most part but not all according to the Christian Bible. I have posted this link here before:
Killed by God

Some items from the list:

The entire population of the earth at the time of Noah, except for eight survivors, in a flood. "And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth; and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark." Gen 7:23

Every inhabitant of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the surrounding plain, by "brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven." Gen 19:24 Lot and his family fled.

All the hosts of Pharaoh, including the captains of 600 chariots, who drown in the Red Sea whilebpursuing the Israelites. "... and the Lord overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea." Ex 14:27-28

TOTAL BODY COUNT (from known numbers): 314,637

This does not include the general body counts given in "whole cities slain" figures such as in Num. 21:25, Deut. 2:19-21, and Joshua 10. These may indeed boost the total figures to over six million. As they stand, the 300,000+ is well over the U.S. body count of the Viet Nam war.

Is God as innocent as you think he is?

This has nothing to do with religion. Jews view the location of Israel as their historic homeland and have been longing to return to it ever since they have been exiled by the Romans. These, as you might know, are non-biblical facts which are part of the history of the region.
How the Jews came to settle this place in first place some 3000 years ago is another totally different thing, which has nothing to do with the fact that the Jews had independent kingdoms in the place which is now Israel.

Most early Zionists were socialists (and thus athiest) and that could be seen by the seemingly un-challanged popularity of the left over Israeli politics until 1977.
As a matter of fact, the founder of Zionism, Theodor Herztel, was an assimilated atheist Jew who spoke German and baptized his two sons into Christianity (as a solution he once believed would solve anti-Semitism, before he came up with the Zionist idea).

Of course though, when the religious try to push their sanctity and religion and their own morals on those who who not subscibe to it, that is for the greater good in order to "save their souls", right?

And while I'm on the subject, I have seen several posts over the last few days referring to "American this" or "American that" from yourself and others. What gives?

I've noticed this for years now. Like "energies" tend to attract each other (not always the case of course). I agree with you that religion is not the issue. It is a mere institution and should not be blamed. That's all man right there.


I agree 100%.