religion explains nothing. It provides stories, that people take far to seriously that results in them doing the very things all the various religions tell them NOT to do.

Again, religion proves mankind is comprised mostly of IGNORAMUSES.

And if the stories are true?.....

use some reasoning skills, zero..... sheesh.

Saying that is ignorant. I wouldn't say that about all the religions either and it's not really the religion itself to blame but how it is used.

The people determine how it's used.

don't make excuses dnb.

Excuses? You're confusing me.

Yes. Ultimately, it is the people who determine how it is used. But when we have politics such as our president who campaign their agenda's as good deeds of god, that is wrong. Religion has no place in politics(In this country atleast) because it is only used as a tool for support and control. If I were a Christian, I would take that as an insult.

1st of all Blue...IMO there was NO Adam an Eve, who could have known that these people existed..who was around waaaayyyy back then to tell the tale, the Eden reporter?? come on it's a load of baloney..well at least IMO it is...I may believe in God as our creator but I believe he let us evolve...and we all didn't come from Adam and Eve, there is no proof to back that story up either, and it dont even make sense, the whole-- they lived for hundreds of years malarkey...sorry but it just doesn't add up, nor does it make sense. God created what began evolution, therefore he created us along with the good the bad and the ugly but hey I am not slaming your belief, you are entitled to it, what ever floats your boat.

I said what if. It's a hypothetical question. Would you apologize to all those you've called ignorant?




Uhhh..... are you sure about that? Ever heard of a study that points to the conlcusion that all men alive right now came from one man. It is very possible.


And another thing, why couldn't they live for 100s of years? God couldn't make this happen?

If people were not ignoramuses wrt religions, they would not be "using it in ways it was not intended".

Not only is it easier to follow a superstition and be ignorant of understanding, it is a sign of ignorance if one can not even follow what they claim they follow!



and which stories do you think are correct, zero? what is invalid in the rest?

being ignorant is to be absent of understanding. Where is there a need in apologzing for identifying that the majority of humanity is ignorant? IT IS IGNORANT! Humans know very little, but like to think they know so much. As the line goes "If you knew half as much as you think you know you would know much more than you really know". When I say "hmanity is comprised mostly of ignoramuses" remember that this is not a binary separation of people into two groups, but a reference to how each individual is vastly ignorant in many areas.

I am sure about my own opinion YES Zero...that Adam and eve story is one of the biggest far fetched stories of our time and No God did not make this happen...if God had of wanted more and more people to live after Adam & Eve he would have just created more..but he didn't..we ALL evolved...now I believe in evolution and I don't care if you think its wrong....can you seriously claim you are smart enough to prove evolution wrong?...I don't think you could..no offence

Ya know blue Hypers posts are some of the most intellegent posts so far, you have just missed that buddy....


No blue Religion doesn't teach of responsibility it teaches to be dependent on illusion, to have faith no way is religion a practical guide for everyday living.....lol

Dude, I'm not saying evolution is wrong. I'm saying there is a scientific study that suggests that all men alive now came from one man.

1st of all I'm not a dude...2nd of all IMO <--look and understand that ok...we didn't come from just one man...remember IMO

I agree with you on the political issue. In a free society, religion should never be in bed with politics. Bad marriage

Zero I stand with Hyper humanity on the whole is ignorant, in my opinion its by choice too...I'm actually considering it may be in the water (privat joke between myself and Hyper) lol.....I see one of the biggest problems is when so many will kill to to be right, Its absurd to actually think that wisdom would be in only one place , alittle research expels that myth......Of course this is IMO

Excellent Hyper...One of the only sensible things I have read so far...appart from the posts from my fellow Berris

so you tell God how it goes now, eh? How do you know what God was thinking when he made man. Also, it never says how much time went by between the making of man and the fall of man. Can you seriously claim that you have enough insight to prove Christianity wrong? I don't think you could either. For you chose this world and God gave it to you. You rejected God and he let you walk away. What you believe could is just as possible as what we believe.

so two humans that could have very well been evolved thousands of miles from each other yet somehow coicendently happened to be opposite genders and breeded and made more humans. Can you really say that evolution is a force smart enough to make a male and female right next to each other so they can grow up and breed? Evolution doesn't make sense like this: Where did life come from? If from single celled organisms, then how is it that they just happened to evolve next to each other. Also, if all organisms formed in the water, wouldn't the earth be populated by just water creatures? There's alot of assumption related to evolution that many just acredit as fact. I dunno. I'll go for the thought that we all came from one man that God created. Yep thats more logical to me.

Also if you look for lies, you can be totally convinced that you've found the truth. The truth shouldn't sway to what people want in life (liberty from God) but it should hold its ground. I will hold my ground for I believe the God speaks truth.

I agree with you. Politics should be left to God, not to Christians. The Lord conducts his business while we do what we are told. So, no, religion should not be mixed with politics. Its great to know though, that God confounds the wise and breaks kingdoms apart by whom he chooses.

You know Zero it has been said that one that recognizes their incompetencies need no apology, and when one is ignorant of their own ignorance, then they may need an apology to justify their ignorance, diguised as knowledge........

a long time ago i conducted a research paper discussing how the Jews relied too heavily on God to get them out of the concentration camps, isntead of taking care of their situation on their own. There are many authentic quotes saying "We knew God would save us soon" or something of that matter. I think this shows that fervent worshippers place too much responsibility on God rather than on themselves.

DUDE, that's funny because last time I said something bad about humanity, you told me I think too negative.

An agnostic I know at work had her god-daughter pass away on her. Tragic, to be sure. Comfort I gave her.

However (and I let it slide when she said it - you don't say this to a grieving person), having never really cared about God ever before, suddenly she's angry and crying and saying - how can an all-loving God take the life of a baby child.

Curiosity, believe it or not, it happens. A lot!

So any person who ascribes to a religion is an ignoramus in your opinion Great to see good ol' fashioned tolerance is still going strong!

Sheri - where did you get that from? That is completely wrong. In fact, Christianity, more than any other worldview has responsibility as a central theme.

The first step in Christianity is ACKNOWLEDGING YOUR BLAME! You cannot be a Christian and not first have said you are full of blame for every action you ever committed.

Aknowledgeing your blame for what????I'm talking about reality and paying atttention to things tha treally matter, like ending didvison, intolerance, caring for the planet we call home, so much time is put into debating stuff that isn't important, like is this scrip means this or that, waht does it matter what does matter is we aren't peaceful, we solve conflict with violence, the majority treat themselves as garbage,how does that help anything ???thinking you are sinful, thinking you are less then???Thinking one part of nature is more superior to another I'll tell you we have a humanity that are ignorant and no desisre to change anything, Few feel responsible for anything.....

NO PA christianity isn't about responsibility...........

Having lived my life as a Christian for the past 6 or 7 years, I can tell you responsibility is a central theme to Christianity. As opposed to the first 19 or 20 years of my life living with myself as my own God and not facing responsibility for my actions.

Feel free to disagree all you like, that fact won't change!

Regards, PA

While I'm not going to disagree with you on the topic of separation of church and state I will however totally disagree with you on the reasons why. I don't feel your god is controlling anything and from what I've heard about the way it does things, I'm glad it isn't running the show.

PA is absolutely right about this. It is long term statistically proven that religious people turn out to help others individually and in large groups more than any other types of individuals or groups.

He is correct that this is an absolute fact.

That is not a fact. While they have been known to help groups of people throughout history, nonxians have also been known to help large masses of people too. In fact the greatest defenders of our planet at this moment are the secular groups. The religious are to busy picketing for their causes.

seeing as that religion had no part in the murderous deeds of both Hitler and Stalin, its safe to say that intolerance isn't based solely on religion. Its based on hateful people, which goes beyond religion. Taking religion out isn't going to make the world better. Thats a foolish idea that history has stamped out and somehow has liberally been brought back to life time and again. How can you end division? There will alway be hateful people. There will always be people who don't agree, thus divide from each other. Thats senseless to say that religion has anything to do with it. Christians are in tuned with reality, yet deal with it differently that others. Why is that so bad? And Christians do pay attention to what really matters: the ones you love. The poor. The meek. The widows. The brokenhearted. The oppressed. We do care, you just havn't opened your eyes and looked for it. All you see is a nasty stain on the past that doesn't even surpass the good that true Christians have done.
We do care for our planet, but we also know it will meet its demise just like the world, for the world has done terrible works within it. How else can it be cleansed except by fire?

I know you're too proud to comprehend our humility but just try for a second. A Christian doesn't think less of himself, he thinks of himself less. We profess that we are sinful, for we know that we are not perfect in either wisdom or power. And that allows us to see God, for he is perfect in both wisdom and power and can do things that we can't. We think of ourself less so that we never look down on anyone that is less fortunate than us, so that we may be able to share the affliction of another that he may be eased and comforted. For if a man thinks highly of himself, how will he see the afflicted crying to him? And if a man think nothing of himself, how will he be of use to anyone? But if a man thinks of himself less, he will be willing to serve the greater at a moments notice. And the fact that few feel responsible for anything isn't because of religion, its because of the lack of good household morals that kids today feel less responsible for anything. Its because education teaches us to treat ourselves as gods seeing that we can achieve anything if we just believe in ourselves. Then we get down hearted when people die because we couldn't stop it. Then most people blame God, when at first they thought to be god in their hearts. Tisk.

what kind of secular groups help mass people? I find that kind of hard to believe seeing that Christians are everywhere, even in places where secular groups gather.

The majority of the members of those secular groups who actually do something are members of various religions.
You cannot get involved with even some of the most obscure secular charities without falling over a Quaker usually. For some reason the more secular they are the more Quakers seem attracted to them.

People of good and loving spirits are most often attracted to some sort of a relgious group. It is in their nature. Birds of a feather and all that.

Katrina had more religious than secular groups there to help, and the ones from the secular groups who plunged into the filth were most often members of some religion. For instance, my Catholic husband volunteered and went inside a secular group and the local high school and college prayer groups went there inside of secular groups.

How many non-religious people do you personally know who went?

Be that as it may. Personal knowledge and personal emotions do not change the fact that world wide the vast majority of those out there helping others are people with some type of religious beliefs. It actually is a statistical fact, whatever the cause of it might be.

Xians are within secular groups but they aren't helping the group in a religious way they are contributing in a humanitarian way.

I could have sworn that you were talking about religious/xian groups in particular as a singular system. These groups today are out picketing against the rights of their fellow man.

When we put them into a religious catagory and look at their accomplishments as a whole we see very little. When they involve themselves in secular groups, things get done for the purposes of humanity not necessarily for some god.

proof please? perhaps statistics. Your response seems like a very agenda biased accusation by which you havn't provided strong ground for. If that what seems logical to you, that still doesn't matter. If you want to convince us that the religious are a bunch of hateful people, you'll need better statistics. Lets say for the last six years, how many good religious movements have there been as opposed to bad religious movements? And please don't say the bush administration because thats all political.

OK 1st off I never said they weren't an intracle part of society. Next why don't you tell me what good has been done in this respect by these solely religious groups? I can give you many examples of dangerous/bad behavior of the kinds of fundie groups I'm refering too. Those that bomb abortion clinics, lobbying against gay rights, disrupting funerals of service men, ect... And why shouldn't I bring up the bush administration? They are injecting their brand of ideology into our secular government. The right wing voted GW into office for their own ideological purposes and now look at the mess it's created.

I think I have acknowledged the fact that secular groups have the religious within them. I also realize that since most of the world is religious then it would stand to reason that some of them would be involved in secular groups.
Not all people with good and loving spirits belong to some religion. Some of us follow our own hearts and don't need a personal guide/god to make us loving and good.

Evolution wont make sense to many christians...but it does to me...



And since when did I say I could tell God how it goes Blue?? I never said any such things...and I could ask you the same...how do you know what God was thinking at the time? ohh would have something to do with what a book says?...you can't proove any of it blue...its your belief..so I respect it..as for me this is MY BELIEF so I suggest you do the same and respect my belief too ok?? I don't believe in the bible...I only believe in God...the sories in the bible sound like fiction to me..and nothing you or anyone can do to make me think likewise...this is not ignorance..it's my opinion..just in the same way your opinion believes in the whole Adam & Eve malarkey

I do believe you said this to Zero:
I am sure about my own opinion YES Zero...that Adam and eve story is one of the biggest far fetched stories of our time and No God did not make this happen...if God had of wanted more and more people to live after Adam & Eve he would have just created more..but he didn't..we ALL evolved...now I believe in evolution and I don't care if you think its wrong....can you seriously claim you are smart enough to prove evolution wrong?...I don't think you could..no offence you told us why the Adam and Eve story was a fetch and then told us that if God had of wanted.......There you told me what God was thinking.
Yes I do use the Bible. And yes I respect your belief.

What I wrote to Zero was stating my belief and nothing more...I like you will stand by my belief...but difference is what I have in science is not just a belief...its more than that..as science has proved a number of things throughout time.....the bible hasn't..but thats not a bad thing either

huh?

I don't think you quite understand how Karma works, first off there is no such thing as old souls as all souls are eternal, secondly Karma is basically cause and effect, for each action you perform there is an equal and opposite reaction upon yourself (like the old quote goes as you sow, so shall you reap).

Actually no it's .... -- You reap what you sow

Still doesn't change the meaning

But thanks for the correction

LOL no worries

No, I know all souls are eternal, and this is from experience. Old souls means more incarnations. It is just an expression, avinash.

Not quite, it's not that simple. You could have two Nazis who commit the same atrocities and each will have a different level of karmic debt. Karma is not basic or simple at all. It's a lot more dimensional than your description and a lot of it ties with intentions, etc.

Hardly. That's physics. This does not necessarily apply to karma at all.