Jonb, I was just wondering if you could do another experiment regarding dust and orbs (assuming it has not already been done before), where you purposefully put a few specs of visible dust or dirt grains on the camera lens, just to see what it looks like while knowing for sure there is a bit of dust there.

Then hang some dust by tiny threads exactly 12 inches from the lens... ha, ha.

But seriously, do you think this is a feasible idea?

I feel I have to say something. Anyone here at UM who has read some of my own threads knows that I am a firm believer in the spirit world. We actually have an annoying entity in our home, which I have posted about, but that is a whole other subject. I think it was about a year ago now that I posted about my cousin's wedding photos. These photos were taken by the mother of the bride with a never-before-used disposable camera. When the photos were developed, in one photo my deceased uncle (her father) and our deceased grandmother were both clearly visible in one photo. It was a photo of the bride and groom at the alter. On one side of the bride the spirit of her father was standing just behind and to the left of her, on the other side the spirit of our grandmother stood just behind and to the right of her. There was no mistaking who they were. ( It is a long story that I've posted about before, but my uncle had died of cancer just a few days before my cousin's wedding and he had told her to please go on with the wedding as planned, that he would be there in spirit. At his death bed he told us all that my grandmother's spirit was there to guide him Home.) We all believe that my uncle's spirit remained just long enough to attend his daughter's wedding and my grandmother remained with him during that time.

The point I'm trying to make here is that their spirits did not appear as orbs with smiling faces. They appeared as somewhat see-through versions of their former selves. If spirits have the ability to appear as themselves, why would they ever have the need to appear as little circles in a photo? This is just my own opinion, of course, but orbs really do not make sense to me as a form of spirit visitation.

Impressive history. It would be amazing if you could show us the photos.

Once in the asylumcam forums, some one asked what is a ghost, I mean, why they show up dressed, etc.

I am no expert, but, I think that the ghostly images that some times show up in pictures, etc, are a kind of energy. I mean. I believe our spirit/soul is energy. This energy is bound to us, to our body. When one dies, this energy is freed and it keeps the appearance of its last instance, I mean, it keeps the shape of the actual body, cloths, etc. Its something really hard to discuss.

In my opinion, I think that there is many forms of spirits, they way they appear. Maybe an orb is just a portion of this energy materializing. Since no one EVER could collect a sample of ectoplasm or anything related to ghosts/spirits/apparitions, it will be very difficult to prove something, so what is left for us is the choice to believe or not in the orbs or any form of ghosts.

PS: Alisa, ehehe I know I promised to post a pic that has ONE reddish orb but I didn´t yet.
I will try not to forget to post it after I get home. Tho I don´t believe its a real orb, I will show it to you and you decide.

Cya!

To All My Detractors,

Just to reiterate some points.
1) Yes, orb phenomena can be attributed to natural causes, i.e dust etc.
2) Not all orb phenomena is dust etc.
3) Why is it on investigation you can be in a dusty room and yet capture nothing, but return an hour later and you have something. Does dust `cloak` itself in invisibility. Why do real orbs move against draught, and often appear around a group during a seance?
4) Why is it that I can generate through meditation a spiritual entity that has all of the familiar characteristics of an orb, together with mist and orange balls of light? If this is a trick (I`ve given you the links to the pics) please explain how I did it according to your rationale, or do you might concede that I might have something worthy of further investigation?
5) REAL ORBS have an anemone like pattern which is quite separate from dust etc, that exhibit none of these characteristics.
6) The REAL ORBS I generate have the same pattern and characteristics, so there must be a common denominator.
7) My research has identified the structure of REAL ORBS, and the fact that the same orb on a continuous investigation can be identified again and again. Surely dust can`t do this?
8) The comments I`ve read `poo pooing` virtually all orbs seem to be based on personal opinion rather than from subjective analysis. As I have said, nobody anywhere actually disproves paranormal orbs, but instead keep showing non orbs such as dust etc. I am in agreement with you on that, but please try and come up with something meaningful.

JonB - Everytime you add comments, the more I suspect that you don`t actually know what real paranormal behaviour is. The `spider`s web` assumption was a real howler!

It`s interesting that no-one has been so far able to answer my questions without trailing off to some link which repeats what we already know about dust!!

Regarding scientific opinion. I have offered to replicate the generation of my own meditative orbs to a number of `serious` scientific bodies associated with the paranormal. To date, nobody has taken me up on that offer. Well, it doesn`t fit to what they already know - does it?
If people want to live in ignorance and superstition that`s up to them. But I will continue with my research and will eventually have some kind of scientific moratorium on what I have discovered, and on what I can prove. Just chill out a little, and open your eyes.

Awaiting your responses to the points raised.

Chris

Chris........Have you seen what you believe to be spirit orbs with the naked eye (as opposed to captured in photos or film) when in a non-meditative state? In your opinion why would some spirits appear as orbs and others appear as full-bodied apparitions? I'm just curious as to your take on this.

Alisa, I think you should take a look at the last photo in the link I´m providing. It is an amazing orb photo.

Ghoststudy

Look the last photo in this gallery. Its 2 orbs hovering and they cast shadows in the background. Worth taking a look!

Cya.

Hi,
Yes, I have (and do) see orbs through the naked eye quite often in my home. The strangest one yet seen was delta shaped, as opposed to the normal grey semi-translucent ones that I have experienced. These are seen through normal eyesight and without being in a meditative state.
The question always arises concerning manifestations. Why are many simply `orb` shaped, whilst others (more rarely) transmute into a human or animalistic shape. Also you should add, why do you sometimes capture EVP without any physical manifestations?
The answer I feel is energy.
A good example was filming one night at a location when I saw through my naked eye two orbs break up into a myriad of tiny sparkling lights. These lights then formed an outline of the lower half of a man wearing baggy trousers and large shoes. The energy got as far as the knees and appeared to become unstable as it then broke up and disappeared.
The camera revealed on inspection just the two orbs shooting up from the ground. I believe that the spirit energising didn`t have enough strength to go further and that`s why it ended. You often read accounts of witnesses seeing part of a human anatomy but never the whole image. I have also witnessed a full apparition where the spirit appeared completely normal - as it were; and for all intents and purposes looked quite real.
As in life and in death, there are those who are stronger than others. The `orb` is the simplest physical shape to make regardless of the potency of the `owner` to develop it into another shape.
As we are talking about mental strength and not physical strength, it presents a whole raft of challenges to our understanding of them. Some of the best manifestations have occured in former mental homes, and these cases are well documented on the net.
In my collection I have a whole bunch of pictures that are not orbs, but derived from orbs, if you can accept that the orb is the first stage of manifestation. I will put some up shortly for you and others to view.
Hope this has helped.

Chris

Chris! Hi there!
Have u seen the orb in the link I have posted before ur last post?
What you think it is? Is it real?
I made many photo tests, photo shop enhancing and could find any thing wrong. The image seems no hoax.
Do orbs cast shadows like that?

Hi All,
Here are four very interesting pictures.
From the left.
Metal Sculpture Next To `Spiritual` Copy In A Day Centre Previously Run As A Convent School Run By Nuns.

A Wider Picture With A Little Girl Sat Next To The `Birds`.

Two Pictures Taken In Celler At Old Peoples Home. Both Show A Light Pattern That Looks Like `sparklers`. (Note: These pictures were in a celler covered by smoke alarms. If they were fireworks the alarms would have been sounded.
These last two pictures are like the energy I saw that was attempting to transmute into a human body.

Chris

PS: Orbs were also captured before and after all of the above were taken. A coincidence?
As I have repeated. I accept that digital cameras can capture normal anomalies, but they can capture different shaped anomalies as these examples illustrate. Just one last point. The `bird` photo`s have been examined by a photographic expert and (pro-photographer) who ruled out shadow or camera error. If you compare the two birds side by side you will see they are slightly different.






[attachmentid=24564][attachmentid=24563][attachmentid=24562][attachmentid=24561]

Hi Feanor,
Very weird photo`s. Both are white solid discs that cast a shadow. I wonder under what circumstances they were taken, and what was in the background behind the photographer. These need to be answered before I can make a judgement. But they look very interesting indeed, but orbs do not generally cast a shadow.

Chris

Here are mine that I have produced about a year ago....

Hi NME,
When you say produced, do you mean that you made them? If so, why?
If these mist anomalies are `man made`, then cigarette smoke is the easiest to do it with.

But how do you create the pix I have offered for analysis, and also the `meditation` pix??

I spoke about the differences between `real` orbs or `dust` orbs. I said that real orbs have a `sea anemone` pattern, wheras dust etc, are either quite flat or bisected. I have included two separate event photo`s. The first was taken at a very active cottage, whilst the latter was taken at the former convent childrens school. (The same as the `ghost` bird picture).
The third pic shows(look across the lower part of the door) an outline of two hands outstretched towards the handle, and just below a bended knee shape. Apparently a former elderly resident at an old peoples home used to try to get out from the home in her wheelchair. She wasn`t quite in her mind, and tried persistently to escape.
This picture was taken a shortwhile after the old lady`s death.
The last one is even more interesting. This way taken at a ruined country house which had early connections to the church. Can you see a figure in the doorway? Definately a pair of feet. You may need to run this through a photo editor.

Chris


[attachmentid=24573][attachmentid=24574][attachmentid=24571][attachmentid=24575]

I made them to basically recreate how easy it is to pull off such a hoax. Not meaning yours are fake at all or anything. But, the way that I have made them are from smoke, and if there are places where smoke can not be used, then I use aerosol can or hairspray to create it.

However, this one, I did not create. The is supposedly the Blue Lady.....This one was taken at Salem Lutheran Cemetery by Chad Miller, lead investigator of " Ghost Lighters Paranormal Research Team"..... which is the same place as the pictures that I have taken with dust orbs.


Thermal Imaging Website: Courtesy of our great UM Site Moderator " FluffyBunny"....Thx FB!
http://www.bullard.com/thermalimager/pictures/index.asp

This is a picture that my girlfriend took of me in my little brother bed. Note by my left arm a faint red orb.



This pic was taken with no flash, you can easily note this cause the image is a bit dark. No reflection on the wooden bed too.

Alisa, Chris, what do you think?

Thanks for asking and for providing the orb! I find it intriguing that this is a photo taken without flash and during the day (I assume). I performed the "local equalization" function from my photo program which I think shows the orb is spherical (my opinion).



I also notice what seems to be more of the red material the orb is comprised on you, Feanor. Also, is that double-strand-looking streak of light part of your shirt, or the anomaly?



To me this material is likely a relaxed, unfurled orb.

Thank you for sharing, Feanor. I believe it is a spirit orb. And the picture of you is very handsome.

Jonb, I did not realize you had done the dust photos, sorry. Now I have had a look. Another impressive idea from you! But I must admit that I have seen this type of dust floating stuff showing up when my camera flashes, and yet I get only one or two orbs, or maybe none. Does only a fraction of the dust get reflected--does the flash have to hit the suface of a piece of dust just right? (I am not being facetious).

Also, is the photo of the room full of orbs the exact photo that was taken as depicted in the other photo where specks of dust are visible in the flash? And did you purposefully billow a bit of dust, or was it just room dust?

Are there any more control photos or other examples?

Thx Alisa!

U have awesome eyes. I never had noticed that streaking thing in the botton of the tshirt. Creepy!

Very interesting! And yes very helpful as it has answered some questions for me. Thank you.

Here is another example of an orb that correlates with spirits.



The size of the orb-headed figure beneath the huge colorful orb, is about the size of an adult human.

My theory is that the huge orb belongs to this figure. As I have pointed out before with the farmer photo, the spirit figures I am fortunate enough to photograph are usually accompanied by a large orb. In this photo I see at least one head with a hat on it about 3 feet above this figure. I don't know why his head it up there and an orb is on his shoulders, but it is makes an interesting statment.

I have slightly brightened the photo on the left because it was too dark to be seen at the size I am posting. I have brightened the crop on the right quite a bit. If anyone wants to examine the originals, let me know.

Is this the best we got are orbs..... I mean out of all the research that we have been trying to do and now we are back to dust orbs. Where are these ghost pictures and does anyone have anyreal pictures? Or, are we still going by a few simple orbs and thinking that that is a good explaination on ghost.

Well, considering you make such a great song and dance out of orbs, I sent you a number of straight questions concerning orbs, recent non-orb stuff, and the stuff I can generate.
Yet you purposely have so far refused to add comment to them.
That also applies to JonB, although he has offered some interesting stuff into the debate.
You talk about `research`, but all I read from you is a bunch of negative statements and no substance. I even added non-orb photo`s which you appear to have overlooked as well.
What are your views say on the `ghostly bird`? Is that non-spiritual also?
Will you now answer the questions? We are supposed to be on the same side aren`t we?
My thanks to Alisa, Feanor and Earthchick that have added to the debate.
Alisa - that latest orb piccy shows the outline of two recumbent figures in the background. Were they statues or suchlike, or part of the manifestation?
Forgive me if I sound argumentative, but your last statement seems to indicate that you haven`t even bothered to look through the threads properly.

Chris

Well, then you need to be more specific, as in listing what type of camera, the type of file you used and so on. We can not go based off of a photo like that because anyone can simply say that is a double exsposure. I did not overlook or avoid your pics, those photos are not that impressive to me. It's always the same thing over and over again. Orbs this orbs that, doesn't anyone have a real good picture regarding real ghosts if your guys have all this infromation on ghosty, where do you get the info from, or are they just theories?

So can you answer one simple question, what facts or source do you use to prove that orbs are spirits?.... please, no conclusions.
So far, I have not purposely avoided any question, but I do believe that I should not encourage you to urge you on to something, or that would mis-lead, so I should not say or comment if it is negative..... Right?

You can thank the people who agree with you only because they agree with you but I simply do not believe in orbs, but instead, my goals are to find ghosts.

Just like you have a unknown white mist, which can be duplicated. Heck, I don't even think mine is that impressive though it is unsolved and I have a bright bluish-purple mist while using a white camera flash. And, this was at a known place to be haunted, with numerous people on different occasions catching this blue mist known as the blue lady.....

Also, as far as I can see, do you even filter your EVP readings? What software do you use?

I`m sorry, you must have missed the reference to my article on orbs - another link you appear to have skipped over.
Regardless of what type of camera do I use - how could I generate orb activity through meditation. With you being the official orb sceptic you must tell me how I did it.
Are there `magical cameras` out there that can do this?
Stop trying to hide behind vague and woolly minded statements and actually analyse them. I don`t think you can, and the more you add to this debate speaks volumes about how you see yourself, but not how others might see you.
My point on this thread was to say simply, that all orbs aren`t dust. Neither are they created using trickery or skull-duggery. But if there is something there that you feel might explain this phenomena - my meditated orbs, I will actually respect your opinion. I`m sure my questions are awaited to be answered by others here.

Chris

No, I did not miss that. First of all, it does matter a lot what type of camera you use and if you don't understand that, then your claims are not credible to me, but that should not even matter to you because only you know the truth. Cameras with the flash being too close to the lense will always capture orbs being an object will always reflect back towords the same direction. I don't think that I am at all vague and hiding when I tell you I don't believe you, and please forgive me on that, but I mean that by meaning that is that there are many claims that are exactly like yours if not better.


You seem to skip my question to you.... regarding my blue mist which is blue during the flash which captured the surrounding in white flash?

...Smoke is too easy to create..... real ecto would look like this.....

And still, before making claims, what proof do you have that states that orbs are spirits?

Here's a link to law enforcement officers thaty organixed their own paranormal research team.... and they are a joke. I know the lead investigator for that bunch of cops and they are coming out with their own show. All they talk about are cops, but all their pictures are of orbs.

http://www.phenomenapolice.com/

Well, you have answered all of my questions by not providing answers. Thankyou.
For my part, I couldn`t care less whether you believe or not. I have experienced these things and have taken the trouble to record on film and camera my experiences. When you are in a spiritual connection with someone that used to tread this earth then it is a wonderful feeling and experience. I feel sad for you that your prejudices cannot allow you to open up. From experience, people that hold your extreme views on the paranormal generally shut down activity during investigations. That may be the reason why you cannot reach out and experience what myself and others have felt with the paranormal.
One day you will be there yourself. Will you be no doubt strutting around thinking you are still alive because there is no `after death` experience, or will you be eating your own words?
Also glad to see you hold the police with such high regard too!

I`m sorry if any other viewers to this forum have had to put up with this debate, but the point I wanted to illustrate is simply that those who reject the paranormal have always the cop out of `scientific research says`, but they have no answers. Here is a prime example, and it doesn`t make me any happier.

Chris

LOL, no need to feel sorry for me. Just do some more research. I am open, just not to what you have said because I have already gone through this orb deal. I once believed in orbs, and if you pull up all my posting from the beginning of my membership to UM, I was very much a believer. I based my conclusions off theories and what I can apply from logics, instead of making up theories.

As for you, you can not answer any of my simple questions either, even with your confidence in your beliefs.

I do have high regards for the police, but should you get special treatment or something? No you don't. You bleed, eat, sleep just like anyone else.

You see, there is much more to the paranormal than orbs, but guys like you whom are stuck on orbs being everything, when do you have time to go validate for yourself what's real? People tend to spend too much time on theories and not enough time on field research.

You and I are not that much different, but what I want to do is get pure evidence and provide undebatable evidence that once and for all proves that the paranormal is real. But so far, what have we all provided..... nothing more then a few orbs.

Even last night on Ghost hunters, they debunked an old theater regarding the soccer ball sized orb. Many people said they visually saw an orb with their own eyes, streaking across the ceiling of the theater. Later on, TAPS found out that it was caused by a can sitting by the window, and cars driving outside below on the street reflected car lights onto that can which deflected onto the ceiling.

If you really do meditate and create orbs like you say you do, why don't you record yourself on camera with raw footoage...while doing so, and during that time, also have a EMF meter nearby and see if anything pops up on camera. Better yet, try capturing an orb when there is no flash on.

Maybe you'll get something like this....


and have you taken the time to rule out ball lightning? The reports on this phenomena are worldwide.

http://www.amasci.com/tesla/ballgtn.html

BALL LIGHTNING does not look like "lightning." Instead, it usually appears as a mysterious glowing sphere which drifts horizontally through the air. It is typically the size of a grapefruit, but sometimes appears as small as a pea, or as large as a bus. It sometime hovers at a few feet or tens of feet altitude, but can also bounce along the ground. It usually lasts only a few seconds, but sometimes persists much longer. Various colors of "BL" have been seen, sometimes it changes colors, and sometimes it has internal structures such as glowing layers or moving sparks. Sometimes it disappears silently, other times it explodes with extreme violence.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/Members/ad.johnson/text/bl.htm

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20020209/bob8.asp
Not many people get to see ball lightning, but those who do never forget it. Imagine a glowing orb suddenly materializing in front of you, possibly sizzling or exuding a bluish mist and an acrid smell......

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s520317.htm

http://www.padrak.com/ine/ELEWIS3.html

http://www.physicsweb.org/articles/news/10/2/6/1

here's 50more links on it....

http://dmoz.org/Science/Earth_Sciences/Met...Ball_Lightning/


and some more.....
http://www.livescience.com/forcesofnature/..._lightning.html

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040917.html

http://polarmet.mps.ohio-state.edu/~bdaye/balligh.html
Ball lightning (boules de feu or foudre spherique; Kugeblitz) is the name given to the mobile luminous spheres which have been observed during thunderstorms. A typical ball lightning is about the size of an orange or a grapefruit and has a lifetime of a few seconds. Compilations of eye-witness reports of ball lightning have been published by Brand(1923), Rodewald(1954), Dewan(1964), Silberg(1965), McNally(1966) and Rayle(1967) among others. Visual sightings are often accompanied by sound, odor, and permanent material damage, and hence it would appear difficult to deny the reality of the phenomenon [as Humphreys(1936) has done]. In a letter to the editor of the London Daily Mail, Morris(1936) described an unusual incident in which a ball lightning caused a tub of water to boil:

Let me know if you need more... I have hundreds of these links....

And that even including the swamp gas, because you might not live near swamps.

And my dad is buddhist for over 60 years now, most of my family is too..... have practiced meditation for most there life. They even do so to lower their blood pressure from 160 down to 145. But no one has heard of them have heard of them doing any such as create or summon orbs.

Even the Nazi's that went to Nepal and Tibet in search of the supreme being could not find such. They were known as the "SS".... and part of their struggle to creating the perfect Arian Nation.

Kiss your thought of my narrow minded-ness good bye.

If you ignore this, then you are indeed the one that is narrow minded.

I think that both of you, Chris and NME have good points and are being rather civil despite the ire that this type of debate can stir. It stirs in me, too.

I particularly resonated with what you said here, Chris:



I thought NME maintained a non-abusive stance on his firm skepticism and was trying to be fair. Good debate, I think.

As for the orb/figure photo, Chris, there are no statues or anything like that, so it is my belief that whatever you see, is a spirit figure(s). I see a body with an orb head. The body is fairly ragedy, but it looks like its left knee is bent and its foot resting on something. I see one main head floating a few feet above the body. To me this photo is very clearly paranormal (to me).

It has been challenging to expose myself by putting out my spirit photos that I hold dear, hoping to thrill some people who see as I do, or intrigue some who don't see it but are interested nonetheless. I also feel a twinge of fear of ridicule and rejection from the few who don't see it and lash out.

It seems to me that ridiculing someone with a different belief system is easy. Accepting another's differences and respecting them is challenging and commendable. And admiring another for their difference is truly transcendent.

I give of my evidence freely and with good will. I believe Chris does the same. I want to share the wonder that I have found from my perspective. I hope you can see it from my perspective and experience some of the joy it has brought me. If you can't, fair enough and by all means say so with civility.

havent been looking at this thread properly because to be honest it was annoying to read!



sorry feanor but this photo was definately taken with a flash, reflection of the eyes and the very shallow shadow of the left side of your face outline tell me this. scooobydooobydooo!





yes the 2 photos are from the same example, and i shook off a jumper which was particularly dusty from where i had been doing some work with insulation, just so i could get a lot of dust.


not sure if any more examples are needed, apart from these 2

This one shows the range at which dust is illuminated from a side on view, and how dust looks with normal focus compared to how the actual photo looks, you can see different shaped bits of dust they appear circular because the lens projects a circular blob of focused light onto the sensor/film. the film or the cameras sensor is always square, which is why we have square photos ( i guess circular ones would be too weird and hard to develop)
you can see the effect of the light the circular lens produces on some extreme wide angles, eg Fisheye Images look at the ones with the black outline. this is the whole circular projection of the lens.

anyway, some dust will not be circular because the shape may be too non circular, to show what i mean i took a picture of a Half moon but made it totally blurred. it is almost circular but its not quite because half of it is darker than the other.


One point i have to make incredibly ridiculously clear is:

If orbs are considered spritual energy, how do they emit energy, presumably they would emit energy in the form of light, because of how many photos there are.

If they produce light energy then WWWHHHYYYYY must we use a FLASH to Illuminate this energy?

You dont take a photo of a switched on lightbulb with a flash to make sure you can see it do you?
much the same way you wouldnt need thermal imaging, to feel that an iron is hot, or an acme smell device to be able to tell that this air freshner sprayed in front of the lens to create a false ghost mist effect smells quite bad!

maybe those examples arent quite the same but you know..

Seriously i have a project for you.
Go take some photos. TURN THE FLASH OFF
find any orbs? post them here.

another thing for you to do.
Buy a camera like this : http://images.google.co.uk/images?btnG=Sea...slr&sa=N&tab=wi

Make sure it is DIGITAL SLR (Single Lens Reflex - Means what you see through the viewfinder is a view through the lens, not some crappy seperate viewfinder, or digital screen.

Now i know dslrs can be expensive, but i got my nikon d70 through ebay, (just the body) for just under £400, cost £1000 when it came out.
I bought another lens which was a bit pricey too but with reason. you dont have to buy a hyper quality lens, just settle for a small 35 mm film lens, which will fit them (do research though)

I guess you could hire equipment too to test it out.

dont want to sound like some kind of digital camera door to door salesman but with this style of camera you should also purchase a flash unit, similar to this cheap old one i have :
Here
its a little slow and it eats batterys, but as you can see from these photos:


External flash pic

View from in camera( Badly lit because the batterys were low)

the flash being much higher than the lens, and the lens sticking out too reduces the threat of dust being lit up in front of the lens producing false orbs.
you can see its not perfect but its a huge improvement from what there was before.

another advantage of these types of flash is you can angle the direction of the flash to bounce off the ceiling, or to an angle that would further reduce the risk.
heres another example this one was with the flash turned to 60 degrees upward and i scraped some dust off the fax machine (yuck) and dropped in front of the lens. None visable on photo because the flash was pointed away from the lens, so no direct reflection was possible from the dust.

ok so i think i should stop here its taken far too long to write this, hope this will encourage you to hire some quality equipment and get a flash unit with adjustable angle.

one more thing i thought of was a flash diffuser which is basically just a bit of frosty plastic that sits on the end of the flash unit and diffuses the light so that it doesnt just go directly in one place with full intensity but rather helps dispense the light evenly. dirt cheap and definately will help reduce dust orbs.

these things might not totally get rid of the dust phenomena but it will definately reduce it.
ill look through some other posts and reply but right now i cant write anymore!

JonB & NME,
Thanks for your links etc and advices.
My point.
Looking at a picture of an orb or orbs as a single event does not prove (as a picture) whether or not it is spiritual. It has to be combined with other events or actions to corroborate it.
For me, that`s checking to see whether the `orb` moves with or against a draught.
Also whether the orb event is a preamble for something paranormal occuring.
Also with `orbs`, we also look for intelligence that can be determined say by an `orb` rotating around a group during a seance, or whether the `orb` reacts in the presence of people.
The pattern of the `orb` is important also. On return visits to one location we also try to verify whether an orb seen on an earlier occasion returns again. Yes, real orbs do have their own unique pattern or signature.
I will never accept all orbs pix to be genuine on face value, but unless I can identify a likely source of the orb, I would keep my opinions nuetral. After all, I wasn`t there.
So to summarise, all that you have said can fall into two parts.

The first part is that you make assessments on orbs based to your own views and opinions. That`s fine, but that`s only your views and they are no more accurate than the view that all orbs are genuine.
The second part - You keep falling back on internet links. Look, none of these links prove or disprove the existence of spiritual activity in the form of orbs. The ball lightening theory is old hat. It`s just a theory. Most are written by people that feel uncomfortable living in a world that has incidents that defy logical scientific explanation. So in order to address that numbing uncomfortability, they create new theories dressed up as fact. You have also provided links to sites that expose flaws in digital photography. I can accept all of these, but the other element missing in your views is that of true spiritual contact. That`s why we, as a group are into recording EVP and anything else that can add clarity to paranormal events. Our website has some very good examples.
So I think the best course of action now is to accept that you do not believe that `orbs` are in some cases spiritual energy. I can accept that, it`s your views.
But please don`t be so dumbingly critical of others that have a different spin to paranormal behaviour. In otherwords, respect each other.
Regarding my self generated orbs.
In the next two months I will set up an experiment where I am filmed photographing this phenomena. Interestingly, if these orbs are `dust` etc, they don`t show up on a night shot camera, but appear on digital still cameras. If there was an easy explanation, why don`t they show up on the dreaded IR camera?
Anyway, I`m off out tomorrow night with a psychic magazine. Hopefully, they will be able to verify some of this activity. I`ll update you all on the investigation with video and photographs.

Chris

Fair enough. At first I couldn't understand why you'd say this, but as I read this long post about cameras I realized how our seriously polar viewpoints could be boring or annoying to the other.



Agreed.



Assuming orbs are spirits (and I am), they do not reside in this dimension with us. How they appear here for cameras to capture and some people to actually see, I can only guess. We pass through them and they through us. So far orbs/spirits cannot be contained and studied. It cannot be assumed that they behave like anything physical does, or that their energy must always produce light.

Why are you angry that some people believe orbs are spirits? Were you always convinced they were nothing more than particulate and malfunctions?




I understand what you are saying. But I must stress that orbs (as spirits) are not physical and not subject to the physical laws of this plane. They appear on photos sometimes brightly, but are often not seen with the naked eye at the time, so their "light" does not fall within the normal context of a lighted physical object.



I still consider you sound quite angry. But I will turn off the flash and take some photos! However, all of the spirits I have captured seem to rely on light reflection to be seen. Why? I can only guess. But I don't think that this invalidates their existence.

sorry i know my posts are a little forceful or angry, but when you know somthing to be true...

I just find that the hard evidence that flash photography can effectively and powerfully light up any small particals in front of the lens, particularly with the popular compact style cameras as mentioned before.
and when this happens you get an identical effect to most of the orb photos around, i just cant see this theory continues to be valid.

i realise im not actually going out on investigations and experiencing anything, and maybe that is half of my reason for being so sceptical, if you are in an area you believe to be haunted youre gonna be pretty expectatious to capture somthing on film, and when it does you want to believe it to be behind the haunting of the place.





absolutely, apart from we can successfully re create the effect of orbs using said methods before.


will you use flash? cos thats a bad idea as ive been trying so hard to explain.

Thats a lens flare.

Just returned from elsewhen...

To answer the question(s) from Alisa and Chris on how I analyze a 'real orb' in photos: Its a simple process of looking at the environment how/when the photo was taken (temperature, humidity, known particulates etc etc) alongside the basic photography factors and the make and type of camera being used etc etc. Even the shape of the orb defines its 'authenticity', as JonB says elsewhere, the shape of the lens causes distortion towards its edges, a self-luminant spherical orb will not appear as a flattened lens-like shape; an out of focus speck of illuminated particulate will. All I can say again is that after 14 years - well actually me and others who were researching sussed it in less than 2 years - if an 'orb' required either the camera's flash or IR focus beam to illuminate it then it was the false product of the illumination; even the shadow patterns on the orbs were recreated by dust and moisture droplets on the flash lens itself - simple physics, light is lensed into shadow! As we were getting other types of anomaly when we were researching orbs, we did wonder if the effects were something more like Ted Serios' 'thoughtography', and we disabled the flash on manual focus cameras for 6 months (at times I was shooting with 4 cameras near-simultaneously), zero 'orbs' appeared - QED! I repeat that out of 50K images I have only recorded one that depicts a true anomalous and possibly self-luminant orb; when challenged, the Cosmic Joker - or 'Q' - produced very different photographic anomalies for me to ponder over.

I have one photo that I cannot post here in these forums due to state of undress of the lady in question (think adults mags!), which she claims depicts the spirits of her dead lovers. Needless to say it was the classic particulate orb image; and it they were real spirits then the only question is when the lady will appear in court on over 30 charges of murder or manslaughter.

While I am attracted to the Shadows (or them to me -whichever) I have seen 'spirit orbs' of departing spirits, though only of animals. In all three cases the orb was tennis-ball sized and was green in color - I didn't have a camera on these occasions, but as these orbs was self luminant to the naked eye, I have no doubt that they could have been recorded by film or digital media. I have investigated an abduction case where two 'orbs' "unfolded" into greys; the witness remains convinced that these orbs were simply a means of transport between dimensions. I've had a orb in this room (about 50cm from where I am now sitting) that expanded into a more diffuse orb around 3m across into which three reptillians appeared - I can only describe this as being something more of a portal akin to the wormhole as depicted in Stargate. Please do not suggest that I am not in tune with 'the paranormal'.

At the risk of going off thread, I'd also question why so many 'pro-orbers' seem convinced that orbs are spirit. On the only occasions I've seen and experienced a spirit orb it was very soon after the death of the physical body of an animal; to me it was the departing spirit on its way to its next phase. Chris mentions his team are also looking at EVP, but what about EIP? If spirit is indeed in another realm continuing in its previous human form; why would it also then remain in a (non-visible) minute ball for eternity? For the pro-orbers to have this belief, they are also believing in the singular life and singular afterlife; concepts which I find flawed. Spirit continues its own evolution; re-incarnation (and thereby pre-incarnation) etc prevail...

But, all due respects Chris, aren't dust particals and debree not 3 demensional?.... Well dust is not flat. So, if it does have multiple sides, light that reflects off of it could create an inconsistant spectrum leaving light density patterns in orbs when being captured on film.


OMG...LMAO... are you seriously saying that science has not proven ball lightning.... but at the same time, you claim to be right, saying that orbs are spritual? And you are saying Ball lightning is a theory, and if so then how come scientists have already found ways to create and contain ball lightning?

PS- I fall back on scientific research links because it is logical science, not make believe. if all you say about your belief as being true, then where is the physical evidence.


Nice choice of words.... dumbingly? haha.... like how you snuck that in. But so far, proof that orbs are spiritual, is as real as Peter Pan and Spiderman... Humpty Dumpty, Willy Wonka, Inspector Gadget and Elastic man.


They do show up on IR.... Because IR does not use an intense flash, on IR, the photocathode captures dust particles differently. They capture then as moving orbs that look like lightning bugs. Sometimes, they are recorded following people, but orbs really only move due to the draft or better yet, when people walk towards them by compressing or decompressing air.


So you don't give scientists as much credit as you do the psychics, even though scientists go of facts but being psychic are just claims.
What happend to logics?

Before you go on regarding orbs not being in our deminsion, do you know about the study of deminsions? Do you know what it is called. It is very interesting how you adjust your story as we go along. You sure have a lot of confidence in knowing what orbs are by all this guessing.

For example below......



I guess a shiny quarter are ghosts.... ........

No seriously, all jokes aside, but from the statement above you have provided, you were so confident, but you end it with a "Why? I can only guess.".... so how does that support facts.

Hi Shadow Wolf,
You have raised some interesting points and I can accept your rationale.
The issue here is whether orbs are spirits, and if so (as many believe) why do they appear as orbs. Like I said, I don`t believe all orbs are spirits, but equally I don`t believe all orbs to be false. I am certain that tomorrow night we will meet our usual manifestations - yes I have seen an orb turn into a bat - and no doubt I will capture some interesting footage. But if - what a dream! - any of you guys were actually present, you would feel and experience the things that we do. I don`t diss non believers, but it sure raises the hackles on my neck when I read some of the comments left by some others. I am quite clinical in my approach to this subject, but equally have mediumship skills it does help to quantify what material we have at the end of the nights investigations.
I don`t put down scientists - NME, without them many of us wouldn`t be here today, but I do feel it is sad that some scientists seek to bury anything they cannot logical explain.
One for JohnB
When (I`m sorry if you aren`t there) I am mediatating the entities appear on camera but not on video. I should know, I was there. Also, I have my views and you yours. All that you and NME do is to convince yourself of your own theories, and if that is what you believe then that`s fine. It`s not how I see and feel things. Try meditating, and listen to your inner self.
Anyway, I must fly, I have other work to attend to.
Speak soon,
Chris

JonB, NME, Shadow Wolf: Thank you for your intelligent, rational responses. You have all been civil and enlightening.



So rational and fair and one of the best responses that cut to the heart of the matter, I feel. Your photos were the first pieces of evidence that really stirred my fear of doubt--I'll give you that. I will also give you that I now accept that some orbs must be particulate, thanks to you. But because I have had personal experience with the spiritual side of orbs, I know that many of the orbs I capture are spirits. Still, I had to do a couple of photo experiments (as well as some spirit communing) to reassure myself.

It was during the day, and I rarely capture orbs then, but I felt I must take a few photos in different places immediately, asking for orbs to appear, just to regain my 100% confidence status. And they did. And yes, I imagine my camera flash was on, so the test would not really be proof to you. But it was enough for me.

Some of my photos show me beyond any shadow of a doubt that spirits are manifesting in my photos and orbs are a part of their manifestation. But I now accept that particulate does indeed also show up as orbs and I take that into consideration now, too.

If we lived by each other, I would love to get together with you and your expertise and equipment and do tests together to see what would happen with my faith and your knowledge.

Shadow Wolf, your experiences go way beyond mine with the paranormal, and with cameras. I was utterly fascinated reading about your experiences. You have been very convincing in your arguments.

NME (I only just realized yesterday that this says "enemy" and I had to laugh--good one. )

I had said, "However, all of the spirits I have captured seem to rely on light reflection to be seen. Why? I can only guess. But I don't think that this invalidates their existence."



You also continually raise good points and are fair. I am admiting that you all are right that some orbs are particulate (even Chris says this). I used to think that it was all spirit (so you did change my mind). I still think for me with my photos, spirits make up 90%+, with not a scrap of evidence to back this up. Only my belief. I can't prove any of my claims. And just when I think I have the best photos ever that are undeniable, there are a heap of people that can't see the image, or think it is something natural, or a malfunction, etc. I don't get upset or sad, maybe a little disappointed. And I just think, wow, we all see things so differently from each other. So I go back to my subjective world where all of these cool things show up in my photos and where spirits talk to me when I am in between sleep and awake and tell me super cool things about the nature of reality that I can't prove, but believe. And I hope that one or two people see it from my point of view and then experience their own personal, subjective miracles.

Chris, I am closer to you in belief and you also have the added benefit of scientific methods and equipment knowledge. I appreciate your work and your comments. Good on ya.

Thank you all...

The Phenomena Police have posted photos with an SLR camera and no flash outside the Zamora house. Looks like you can get orbs in the daylight with no flash..................

well im glad i could share what i believe to be the only reason behind orbs, i am yet to encounter anything supernatural in my life which is probably the major backing behind my scepticism for this.



paranormal police?

id like to see those photos leslib could you post a link?

i googled the paranormal police and found only this video http://phenomenapolice.com/pppromowindows.wmv

i can say after watching this that i would be highly unlikely to give credit to this group, who seem to think torchlights and led light equipment being moved in a long shutter speed because of a cheap nasty camera that cant sync flash and a decent shutter speed together.

although i would still like to see more of them as its always interesting to see new shows.

Exactly, I seriously doubt any of their stuff is worthy. It just shows what you do for a living should not apply to what is known about the paranormal.

Here is a new image for you all.




This was taken behind my house while having a bonfire/party. Now it was a pretty big fire, with lots of sparks and ash, so what I beleive is that these "Orbs" were created by the ash in the air and the bright glowing one, a spark. It's me in the picture, and I have several others with the same "phenomenon" in them. Any takers on the spiritual sense of them? I have more; if anyone is interested, i'll post them.

Thanks for sharing this photo! I see a few orbs in it. While I understand that there is smoke and potential dust and sparks showing up, orbs are just as likely to show up in my opinion (they like gatherings, too). I believe that the bright one above your head and the perfectly round ones including those against the background of your shirt are orbs (spirit material).

I also like seeing a photo of you, it's nice. Post more if you are so inclined. I will have a closer look at them in my Photo Paint program, as I did with this one. I did not see a strong spirit image in this photo, but any of the others might contain some. I find that spirits use the physical materials available to manifest through, often using smoke or background shapes, so there is good potential for a photo manifestation.

Hi Alisa, Hi everyone!!

ok this is a subject that repeat itself over and over. Well, this is my humble opinion:

1.- you`re making an statement,"i believe that orbs are spirits" then you`re assuming that there`s , in fact, life after death. then, how can you prove that in the first place? by showing us lenticular shaped objects floating on your backyard? are they showing an intelligent behavior in its movements?

2.- If you can prove the statement number one, then how can a spirit be photographed if a spirit supposedly have no physical mass?? anything that we can see have physical mass, the light hits its surface and our eyes and technical devices, such as cameras, can capture it, then how can this be possible??

3.- have you ever heard about Gestalt theory? in a few words it explains that our brain finds the way to order the chaos in well-known patterns, that`s why we can see elephants, eagles, unicorns and other forms in the clouds, riples of water, or another natural patterns.

hink about it and i hope you find this helpfull and interesting.

later!

Hi!

I do believe in life after death. This is based on the hundreds, probably near thousand, accounts I have read from people that seem utterly sincere that they have had near-death experiences, met with relatives that have passed over, seen and interacted with ghosts of the departed, etc. You can prove it to yourself through earnest pursuit by reading as much as you can and by opening yourself up to experience, willing it to happen.

I believe the spirit orbs and spirit forms that I photograph do show intelligent behaviour and movement. For one thing, they show up in significant numbers when I ask them to. I have seen intentional smiles on the orbs. One particular spirit entity that kept showing up in my photos is Mulligan. Please see this website page of mine for the photos and read the journal entry links on this photo page to understand the interaction I had with this man.


I think this is an excellent question! I wish I knew for sure how it all worked based on the laws of physics, but I can only conjecture. Firstly, I think there are many things that science cannot fully explain and that physics does not encompass (or at least that I know of, maybe physics master-theorists can explain). This is my theory...for some reason the veil is thinning between this and a nearby dimension. Maybe it is that our perception as a species is evolving, maybe the other dimension is physically drawing nearer, maybe it is the sophistication of our equipment (cameras), the openmindedness of those using the equipment?

When I take a photograph with the intention of capturing spirits, they are appearing. They have dimension that is indicated by shadows, BUT, they are also as if contained within a sheet when viewed on film. I can see in my photos that the orbs are at different distances/depths, but they also appear 2-dimensional like a drawing upon a sheet (which is why orbs do not appear behind objects). It is like laying a clear sheet with a good drawing of objects at varying depths in front of the camera. Why? I guess it is the nature of having a window into another dimension while being within this dimension.

Yes, I have heard of the gestalt theory and pareidolia (do a search for my comments and threads). It is true that we see meaning in patterns. But why? Is it because there is meaning in all patterns? That is up to each of us to determine for ourselves. And I believe there is meaning in all patterns.

I found your comments extremely interesting, thought-provoking and quite welcomed! Thank you, Akiraone.

i hate the topic of orbs, if u yall wanted to know... cuz u just cant tell... is it dust?? is it a bug??? is it actually a spirit caught on tape?? is it the picture taking a snapshot of the actual flash light in the room?/? anyways, i feel like grant and lee on ghost hunters.. orbs are garbage

Hi Alisa!

I`m glad that you found my commentaries interesting!

I begin to understand how many people explores the paranormal topic and its different approaches, and i respect them. Mine is try to explain (as well as i possible can) on a objective way and if possible with hard basis the many manifestations of the "ghost phenomena".

i know that science can not explain everything, just because science is not an oracle itself, it`s just a tool that help us to resolve problems in order to get some knowledge about a part of our reallity.

Maybe this tool has no adaptations to help us explain this part of the "reallity"... ...Or maybe we are asking the wrong questions about how to use this tool in such matter.

well, think about it. Thanx for your answer!

Later!

I did.



Well put! I think that is one of the keys--we all have a different viewpoint that is valid , and when taken as a whole with everyone else's, it makes up the big pictures of reality.



Well put again.

Hi all,

Figured I'd pitch in my two hundredths of a dollar.

I get orbs all the time, and although orbs are supposed to be the penultimate manifestation in a series leading up to an apparition, I have no reason to think the location is haunted. The first time it happened, I had never heard that these annoying flares were supposed to be spirits. Cleaning the lens made them go away.

I know that few people, if any, would say that all orbs are spirits. Most believers would say some are dust or moisture, while others are "genuine." But I have not noticed anything that would help me tell bogus orbs from "real" ones. I've looked closely at my "fake" ones, and they look identical to photos offered as "real" spirit orbs.

So here's my reasoning laid out carefully:
------
1. IF these orbs are spirit manifestations, THEN cleaning the lens should not reduce the incidence of these orbs in photographs.

Cleaning the lens does reduce the incidence of these orbs in photographs.

So these orbs are not spirit manifestations.

2. IF these orbs are spirit manifestations, THEN they should be accompanied by other manifestations.

They aren't.

So these orbs are not spirit manifestations.

3. IF these orbs are different from ostensibly "real" spirit orbs, THEN they should be visually distinguishable.

They aren't.

So these orbs are the same as ostensibly "real" spirit orbs.

Therefore the ostensibly "real" spirit orbs aren't spirit manifestations, either.
------

As long as the assumptions are true, the logic here is tight. (The main rule I'm using is called modus tolendo tolens, if anyone's interested.) There's the strong possibility that I've got something wrong here, and I'd be open to hearing about it. But given my experience with orbs and the logic above, I feel safe in disregarding them until some new information is called to my attention.

Here are a few orbs and a vortex caught quite by accident in my own apartment. I invite people to look at them for features that would allow me to distinguish them from authentic spirit manifestations.

Orbs surround undead Buddy Holly

Large orb over knives

DVD Vortex

Click on images for full-size versions.

So for what it's worth, that's my take on orbs.

Thanks,

--Scott

It is such a pleasure to get such a great post and great photos!



It is all subjective at this stage as the spirit world and the physical world cannot both be measured by the same tools and in the same way. I get orbs very frequently, too, and I do not have a dirty camera lense (some photos are crystal clear and then the next might be full of orbs, then the next clear), and I also don't consider my locations to be sterotypically haunted. However, I do believe that spirits are all around all the time. As I've said before, if billions of creatures have lived and died on this planet and if orbs are spirits, how many billions would there be. So in a sense, everywhere is "haunted".



I believe most orbs captured on film (well, mine anyway) are spirits, even though orbs can be seemingly reproduced with dust and water. It is tricky with rain because I capture many spirit orbs and spirits figures before, after, and during rain. Somehow the rain/energy/? creates a fertile environment (and no cheeky responses jonb and NME).



Actually, just because two issues covary, it does not mean that they are causal. In otherwords, just because I shake a stick over a flower and it grows, does not mean that the stick shaking caused it to grow. If you cleaned the lens and then found less orbs in your second (or third, etc.) shot, this may not have anything to do with cleaning the lens. The dimensional window may not be visible at that point. It could be coinidence. Numerous possibilities exist.



I don't think this argument is even as solid as the first. Who says they should be accompanied by other manifestations? Maybe all you will get is orbs. Though I find that you can often get accompanying manifestations. But it is not the rule.



Again, who says they must be distinguishable? Perhaps part of the intentional design of our reality includes fail-safes so that no absolute proof of the spirit world can be given and that it will always require a certain amount of faith. Maybe the mind must reach a certain "ripeness" that allows for belief without absolute physical proof (this is just my conjecture). Because I wondered this very que