So far its a good read. Alot of detail makes it kinda hard to imagine someone just imagined this. But you never know.
Anyone heard anything about this book from a skeptic perspective?

And does this not only explain genisis but evil itself?

And is christianity based on the bible heresy?

It would help others if you would give a link or some information on this subject.

The Apocryphon of John

That one link just lead to a summary of it. The one i read is 18 pages long. Wish I knew a site that had the whole book.

Is the book a gnostic work?

This is Gnostic. It was found at Nag Hammadi [sp] in the mid 40's.

Ya its gnostic. Didnt like the end part. It went from detailed mysticism then by the last page it starts to read like a fantasy short story.

Cant wait for the Nag hammadi 2 to be translated. Anyone know if its older or newer than the scrolls we have translated now?

My understanding is that it is late 2nd century and is described as Gnostic mythology. Really don't see what bearing one mythology would have on another mythology.

Link

I thought it was; and no the Bible isn't based on heresy. The gnostics were half pagan half christian. You can't take any of their works completely to heart. They were a bunch of mystic pagans who then heard about Jesus......now, they believed in Jesus, but they couldn't accept everything of the Jewish and/or the Christian religion because they already had their own set of beliefs about a superior being. So, they adopted Christ as their savior, but they viewed him as just another presence of God or a God being, just like many other supernatural experiences or people that preached contrary to the Bible. Basicly they thought every religion was correct and it was just another aspect of the superior being they believed in........this resulted in things that at first glance sound Christian and have many truths in them about the Saviour, but then contain many, many, other things that go against God, the word, the Bible, and all the truths in the Jewish and Christian scriptures.

The gnostic stuff is not correct on very much of anything, including the Apocryphon of John. That work is incorrect, it goes completely against the Bible and against the words of Moses. Moses learned the first five books from God himself and the apocryphon of john disputes the word of God out right and even claims that what they call the chief archon (they expect people to believe that's the god refered to in the bible) made the flood and didn't even warn noah. THAT IS NOT TRUE. God created the flood to wipe out evil from the corrupted earth so it could start anew, and he did warn noah and instruct him to build the ark.

Here is a quote from Ap of john:

And the chief archon repented for everything which had come into being through him. This time he planned to bring a flood upon the work of man. But the greatness of light of foreknowledge informed noah, and he proclaimed it to all the offspring which are sons of men. But those who were strangers of him didn't listen to him. It is not as Moses said, They hid themselves in an ark, but they hid themselves in a place, not only noah but many other people from the immovable race. They went into a place and hid themselves in a luminous cloud. And noah recognized his authority, and she who belongs to the light was with him, having shone on them because the chief archon had brought darkness upon the whole earth.

THAT IS UTTER CRAP!!! Like I said, they had their own idea of a superior being, and they tried to belittle the REAL GOD by continually claiming he was evil (in many works, not just ap of john).....they thought there was a superior female being, who was above the REAL GOD. The gnostics tried to make God look like satan, which he ISN'T! The damn gnostics in ap of john even claim that the REAL GOD, was the one who sent fallen angels down upon the earth, WHICH ISN'T TRUE!

"And he made a plan with his powers. He sent his angels to the daighters of men, that they might take some of them for themselves and raise offspring for their enjoyment.:

FALSE! They try to say the REAL GOD, who made the flood to kill all also sent angles down to take the daughters of men. THAT IS NOT TRUE!!! GOD, THE REAL GOD, didn't do that.

Don't believe anything the gnostic works say! The REAL knowledge of GOD is in the Bible, it is in his word, his REAL word. Genesis is the truth, the gnostics are full of crap, attempting to spread lies.

For goodness sake, they try to say an archon (which is pretty much their way of saying demon) is what the lord is, that ISN'T true.

Plainly anybody who knows God could easily see the evil deception the gnostics are tyring to get across here. Don't believe them, their doctrine is false. But the doctrine of the TRUE GOD, which is found in the Bible, is the way. It is the Light, the Truth, the Salvation.

you done preaching yet?

Why? You have a problem with it?

Essence,
You would be very naive to believe that some of the books still left in the New Testament didn't also have a great deal of pagan mythology in them. Parts of the Revelation of John of Patmos is copied verbatim from much earlier Zoroastrian mythology, with only the names being changed, Michael for Ahura, and Satan for Ahriman.

Why is there no fiery hell in the Hory Torah Jesus endorsed? Why is it only in the New Testament there are all of the (Greek) demons bothering people. Why doesn't the Old Testament say Satan was the Serpent in the Garden. And what changes the obedient Satan in the book of Job, to the enemy of God in the New Testament in an obvious imitation of Zoroastrian dualism?

The answer to all of these questions is obvious. In order for their new religion to survive, it had to be as popular as the pagan ones it had to compete with for members. So all of these Pagan ideas were "added" to the "Jewish" teachings of Jesus.

So to pick out the paganisms in Gnostic gospels, but to conveniently overlook them in the New Testament books, is a classic case of "the pot calling the kettle black."

Well said DC.

Bad gnostics, trying to confuse even more the poor heaed of the xtians...bad bad. :rooleyes:

DC, you don't even know what your talking about, for one thing your an idiot who thinks satan was good, 'nough said about your credibility.

My answer as to why hell fire isn't mentioned in the O.T. as punishment, would be because the hell fire punishment doesn't take place until judgement day, nobody dead now or anybody who will die before the great judgement will be burning in hell fire. The talk of the fire in hell is only in Rev because it is the punishment at the final judgement; why the heck would the ending be at the begining?

And there is nothing in Job that shows satan as someone who works for God! For one thing, God clearly doesn't even know why (figure of speech) satan is in his presence, or even in heaven at all since he clearly asks him why he's there and not on earth where he was banished. Another thing satan does which if he worked for God he wouldn't do, was temp him. And i'm not talking about when he tried to temp Jesus, he does it in Job by tempting the Lord by claiming the only reason Job loves God is because he has so much......a servant of God would NEVER do that! End of story, and if you think differently your a morron. Don't like to resort to any type of name calling, but the truth hurts, sorry.

It's funny how people who don't know God and think there's no punishment and there won't be any hell.....always claim the O.T. never says satan was evil. The fact is, if the O.T. hadn't mentioned satan in the first place and shown him to be an evil entity there wouldn't have been any mention of such a thing in the N.T.

The O.T. clearly shows satan as evil, and an O.T. work that was left out of the Bible (Enoch) has verses in it that when translated show that the evil rebellious fallen angels are reffered to as "satans".

DC, you need to wake up and get your head out from between your legs.

Just about everything else was prophesied in the OT so why not the mention of hell? It not an important concept in the Christian belief?




The times I agree with DC are few and far between and this is one of those times.
At least he has a head to think with......

Satan good? who thinks satan is good? Theres an angel called Satanail in Judaism. In christianity Satan is evil. But in Gnosticism the Archon while not technicaly evil just ignorant would be the bad guy. No satan though and no the archon wasnt a fallen angel.