It seems that this section has been recieving more and more attention from the skeptics. I wanted to take a moment to reiterate the guidelines.



I have noticed that the guidelines are not being recognised as much as they should be on this sub forum. In case the guidelines are not clear enough;
This section is intended for discussion on psychic skills and abilities with respect to those beliefs. If you cannot respect those beliefs do not post on the sub forum

If you are a skeptic to the psi phenomenon, Please look at what section the topic is in before you reply to it.

If i have not made myself clear, or you have any questions at all, please feel free to comment.

So wheres the alternative section for the skeptics? The one that's intended for discussion on psychic skills and abilities with respect to that disbelief?

No offence to you UA, but it seems to me of late that UM has taken to supplying special "sub-forums" as you call them soley for the purpose of minorities with outlandish claims pissing in each others pockets and not having to worry about their beliefs being challenged. A bit weak don't you think ?.
Perhaps they should have the cotton wool that UM is wrapping around them taken off and not be so thin skinned ?, It is a discussion forum after all and not a mutual admiration society.

I dont make the rules, i just enforce them.


My opinion on the matter is a moot point, and irrelivant. The board was put up, and its intentions stated in the guidelines. Being a mod means making sure the guidelines are followed, regardless of my thoughts on the matters being discussed.


Indeed it is a discussion forum, I would'nt call this particular board an 'admiration society' more like a 'possibility discussion' board, where outright denial of the phenomenon discussed is discouraged.

The reason the board was made in the first place was to reduce the amount of flaming that was happening prior to the creation of it. Its a positive way to reduce the negativity, and it encourages posting by members interested in the phenomena discussed here.


There isnt one Stellar. Sorry to dissapoint, but rarely is anything quite that fair. If you wish to share your disbelief there is the main metaphysics board, but you already know that.

UA, where in the guidelines does it say that this sub forum is only for believers and discussion assuming that the abilities exist?

I'm wondering as well.

The guidelines says that criticism should be kept to a minimum, but that doesn't mean it has to be gone completely.

Nor does it say that it is a sub forum specifically for the believers...

"If you want to debate the very nature of the topics being discussed in this section, please do so on the main Metaphysics board."
In other words, If you dont believe the subjects being discussed, and wish to debate their validity, existence, or the beliefs involved, do it on the metaphysics board.


No it dosent, If someone comes up with a 'psi-flying power' by all means it should be discouraged, and criticism would be welcomed for the sake of anyone willing to try, but outright criticism on every single topic in here is discouraged. In general, the topics in here are harmless. If someone believes they can make a psi ball, or move objects with their mind, this sub forum is intended to be a place where they can talk about it and share with others without being offended by criticism, and winding up getting involved with flaming because they believe it.

Too much criticism discourages people from posting about the subjects being discussed in here. So in the guidelines where it says criticism is kept to a minimum, its an absolute minimum. IMO it should be only when its necessary due to a belief could put others in danger.


"The "Psychic Skills & Abilities" board is intended as a subsection of the Metaphysics board for discussion between members on the subjects of Metaphysical skills, abilities and psychic awareness."
Rules:
- No posting solely to criticise, ridicule or demean members
- Always respect the beliefs of others

The rules apply to the guidelines. This is not rocket science. there should not be that much difficulty understanding the intent of this board.

If they believe in what they are talking about, there is no problem speaking up on it. If they question themselves over if it's true or not - that would lie on the poster. No the people, skeptics, that would try and debunk them.



Without the threat of going back and forth trying to prove a point or explain the point, there is no room to learn or gain on this board. It would be pointless then to even have the board up without someone that disagrees.

Respect the believes of others, I am assuming that applies to all posters, and just not the believers? Equal right?



Indeed, not rocket science. Niether is making seemingly outrageous claims of powers or such. A bit of common sense should be used on both sides rather then beating the skeptics with a bat, while the believers run free. They have ESP, mind powers but not enough common sense to muster up a nice story and giving reasonable rebuts to posts?

Keep the universe balanced in comments, so the force will not be disrupted.

If they believe what they are talking about, they do speak up on it, which is why this board is here. If they want skeptics to try and debunk them, their topic will have a good place on the main metaphysics board. I'd like to point out that the existence of this board has not in any way shortened the list of topics (of the subjects discussed here) on the main metaphysics board.


On the contrary, i dont think i've seen a skeptical member discussing the how to's of meditation, or the concentration methods of creating certain psychic phenomena. Criticism on the topics discussed here is almost never productive other than to discourage the beliefs involved.



The beliefs of others...
'others' is a label applied to other members who wish to post on this forum following the guidelies set for the forum. If you believe criticism, demeaning, and ridecule are effective methods of communication between those who wish to share experiences here and yourself, then no, there are no equal rights.


It is the responsibility of the moderators to keep members in line, it is the responsibility of the poster to follow guidelines set by the administrator of this website. If any member makes claims that are overly outrageous on this board, it would be the moderator that comes in to correct the situation and take whatever action is necessary, not just any member who feels that an outrageous claim deserves to be shot down.



Rebutting to posts would suggest a debate on the subject. There is pleanty of room for that on the board that debates on the subjects are welcomed.

*balance is an illusion

I would just like to add a point:

What fun is it really to dis a fourteen or fifteen year old? Most posters in this sub section are teens who will realize soon enough the folly of their ways. Let them have their fun I say!

Who knows...some of them might be 'evolving' into things the rest of us simply don't understand.

I agree with UA here both in point and purpose. The forums are not unlike a TV. If you don't like a particular channel (forum) then change it! Gallagher once said, the same. He added, "The TV also has a 'brightness' knob, but it don't work, does it?!"

If you feel strongly one way or the other, then post a topic in the appropriate forum.

Let them have their Psi club, camp, whatever. Who knows, they may learn something.

These forums would disintegrate into chaos without some rules and Mods to enforce them. We would become AOL.

I sure as hell don't want that!

Im not talking about debating the nature of the topics being discussed, I'm talking about discussing the phenomena from a skeptics standpoint, rather than from a believers standpoint.



But I dont wish to debate their validity, I wish to discuss them, just like the believers are doing, except the believers are discussing it using paranormal to explain it.



Precisely. I am a member of the metaphysics board. I wish to discuss, with other skeptics, the subject of metaphysical skills, abilities, and pa.

Maybe moderators should be more interested in cleaning up the multiple threads instead. I dont know about you, but having 50 electrokinesis 30 sylvia brown and 100 astral projection really makes me cranky.

Those should not be allowed in the metaphysics main forum in such flooding numbers or existing format (ie please teach me how to barbecue with my mind...). I am here to seriously discuss the possibility behind ESP occurances and not debate the hormonal awakening of 12 year olds.

So before you tackle sceptic replies, I would suggest that following the same logic as the subforum, posts that seem to refer to psychic abilities as an everyday activity, be moved here directly.

I am content to stick to the main forum if I dont have to dodge through 100 "kinetics" just to get to one thread that actually addresses the real issue.

Thank you

I agree with you on that one.

Giving a forum to a minority of members (and I'm not just talking about the metaphysics section ;o)) just so they can jabber about their fantastical, fanatical and more often than not misguided opinions without having to worry about being opposed or challenged seems ridiculous to me.
I agree it is a pain to be under attack all the time but I was always taught to keep my mouth shut unless I could back it up.
The metaphysics section is by far the worst and I agree that it needs a good clean out. It used to be kept under control. Perhaps a "firm hand" as they say is what is needed again.

If you can do so without being offensive or overly critical, i dont have a problem with it. We've talked about this before Stellar.


If you can manage to discuss psychic awareness with other skeptics, by all means, go right ahed.

This was my next project, as soon as its been made clear whats accpetpable to the members with an interest in this forum.

Your thoughts are paralleling mine, I started here with the subforum because of the overly active 'rule bending' I plan to take some time to clean up the main board as well. I'll get to it as soon as it is possible.

Everyone learns on their own time TO. There have been documented cases of aparently 'real' psychic phenomenon, there have also been pleanty of fakes. Who are we to judge? For UM this forum is appropriate. Only the posters themselves know if their claims are valid. And in time we'll either get someone who wins the randi challenge, or they will move on. In the meantime, discussion on the subjects here is, and should be harmless.

Apparently I cant, because when I make a thread without being offensive or overly critical, its moved to the main forum...



I tried, but my thread got moved.

Threads get moved to the forum they are most appropriate for. I believe the thread you're referring to quickly turned into a debate. Which is why it was moved. I dont believe the thread being moved had any impact whatsoever on the discussion however, last i saw it had at least 4 pages.

In order for the forums to function correctly, there must be order. I've spent a bit of time today and last night moving threads and trying to clean these two boards up. I've seemed to do well with the first pages of both forums, you'll notice several threads that have been moved from here to there, or from there to here. This will happen.

It was moved before it turned into a debate. And why was it moved because it turned into a debate? Other threads here that turn into debates arent moved, those debating it simply get warned to stop...

I still have our PM's about this stellar. If you'd like i can forward them to you to refresh your memory.

There really isnt a need to get into this here. This thread was to make clear the guidelines of this board. I believe i've done that. If you have any more questions about the guidelines that have not been covered already, please feel free. Otherwise drop the issue.

Please do.

*enjoying this debate*

When this sub-section was first set-up it was mainly about the psychic side, not kinetic.

At the moment it is mainly kinetic topics, but lets not forget there's more to metaphysics then 'fireballs'.

The skeptics have free reign in the general metaphysics section and in fact most of the board. Tell me your lives aren't so boring that you feel the need of attacking people in this one section will fulfill you?

I don't agree with most of the stuff said in here, but I'm adult enough to bypass it or like someone else said......."change channels."

You guys really need to lighten up. Skeptics AND believers. Just because some one has a different opinion doesn't mean you can go off calling them a dumb ass, or say they're wrong.

I hate having to read topics where often times half or more of it is people saying sh** about each other. There are believers who talk sh** because a skeptic said he didn't believe it, even if he said it in a kind and respectful manner. Then there are the skeptics who will share their opinions in the most damaging way possible. You don't have to be an ass hole to get your point across. Either say it in a civilized manner or don't say it at all.

And since I know alot of you are die hard evidence fans, here are some examples:
That was an example of pointless cynicism.

That is an example of an OPINION that's all right.

So every one stop being so touchy, especially you believers, you talk like you've been violated when someone says something different then your opinion. And you 'skeptics', stop insulting peoples intelligence and their beliefs. If you have a different opinion it's okay to say so, just don't do it in a damaging way.

Cynicism? Yes. Pointless? No. I was expressing my opinion, and it happened to be cynical. Opinions don't need to be tactful or respectful. If you can't handle it, then maybe YOU should get off the forums.



Here you actually exonerate opinions. Great. This I do not mind, however who are you to decide what opinions are all right?



You know, that's kind of a damaging way to deliver your point. To further quote you, "You don't have to be such an asshole about it". The fact is, you're just expressing your opinions too, and they are no less or more valid than any other opinions expressed on these forums.

I honestly don't care about people saying sh** about each other, it's just all the whining, and all the extra reading I have to do, that pisses me off.

P.S. I'll remove that last part, I agree with you on that one.
P.S.S. By cynics I meant people that have nothing constructive to say. Most skeptics don't fall under that catagory, and that is why I said cynics.

I have never been on this board before usally like discussing Religion with others but I wonder is this a place to discuss possible phschic power you posess or talk about weird stuff that happened to you that may be phschically triggered. I am kinda lost because of the debate on whether opions matter or not.

canwe, here's the right place. This section includes no flaming but if you're in for some more lively debate take it to the general meataphysics section.

"Where turkey and steaks rule!"

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I believe on taking an "innocent until proven guilty" viewpoint and just saying that no one's really wrong. The skeptics have their points that are valid, and the believers have their points that are equally valid, although perhaps less often proven. It's just our points of view that limit us into little close-minded molds (and I mean both skeptics and believers) and don't allow for any change. I personally think that this subforum, under the right moderation and management (and a couple dozen less "i can fly can u?!" topics), will allow those unsure but curious on the topic to learn a little, and those more experienced to impart a little knowledge- all this minus flame wars, and it'll be near-perfect.

Well, sorta.

That's what was hoped for Orro.