QUOTE(zandore @ Apr 5 2006, 11:11 AM) [snapback]1134526[/snapback]
Tell that to your God....
What a stupid reply. It comes from Ezekiel.
Full Version: Christians were persecuted for their faith!
Tell that to your God....
What a stupid reply. It comes from Ezekiel.
QUOTE(mako @ Apr 6 2006, 01:42 AM) [snapback]1134499[/snapback]
When Christians give justice to all those millions that they have slaughtered over the centuries, then and only then can they cry that they are being persecuted....until then, it is only pay back time.
Mako you can NOT be serious. Think of all the "GOOD" Christians out there Mako- there are plenty of them so you wouldnt care if they got persecuted- you are encouraging people to be persecuted for their faith and indicate it is well deserved pay back. Mako what the hell? All the intelligence i thought you had has been wiped away with such a disgusting comment- you might be a historian- but morally...you're messed up.
QUOTE(Bella-Angelique @ Apr 5 2006, 11:15 AM) [snapback]1134532[/snapback]
What a stupid reply. It comes from Ezekiel.
And Genesis says the opposite.
Often I see that the word religion is singled out as the great evil and plight of mankind. Wars murder and whatever all started because of religions, is far too simple of an explanation. Remember that religion by definition is only a structured form of belief and actions that is shared and practiced by others. Bearing that in mind then politics’ and philosophy are also forms of religious/belief as well as our government structures that are the foundation of civilization. Our believes, encompass all religions, politics, philosophy and art and if you lay blame on only one part of human belief systems while ignoring the others your are simply using it as an excuse to hide your personal biases. And as such you are denying the very core of human civilization.
Perhaps it is the heart of man that is the problem.
Perhaps it is the heart of man that is the problem.
QUOTE
Perhaps it is the heart of man that is the problem.
Irish,
Very well said. I think that sums it up nicely.
QUOTE(wallflower1996 @ Apr 5 2006, 12:08 PM) [snapback]1134601[/snapback]
And Genesis says the opposite.
If you read Ezekiel it explains that that was wrongfully added into the teachings. If you are going to go by a book you have to use at least what the book says about itself.
QUOTE(Bella-Angelique @ Apr 5 2006, 11:15 AM) [snapback]1134532[/snapback]
QUOTE(zandore @ Apr 5 2006, 11:11 AM) [snapback]1134526[/snapback]
Tell that to your God....
What a stupid reply. It comes from Ezekiel.
Tell that to all of the people that have been Killed by God (per Christian Bible)
QUOTE(Bella-Angelique @ Apr 5 2006, 01:24 PM) [snapback]1134708[/snapback]
If you read Ezekiel it explains that that was wrongfully added into the teachings. If you are going to go by a book you have to use at least what the book says about itself.
Is that like using the Bible to prove the Bible?
Mako, my friend there is no apology or justise that sponge away the blood of thousands of years of human history. How can I make up for the sorrow my European anciestors inflected on Native Americans. All we can do is try to do better and not repeat the mistakes of history.
This is why historians have an important role in society to remind us of errors of the past.
And why unbias historical research is so important. You can't bend history to fit what we would like it to be. As they say those who don't know history are doom to repeat it.
This is why historians have an important role in society to remind us of errors of the past.
And why unbias historical research is so important. You can't bend history to fit what we would like it to be. As they say those who don't know history are doom to repeat it.
Ramster, I realize that there a majority of Christians are basically good folk, but your God has set the example of punishing the children from the father’s sins. Therefore all Christians must (as did all Germans for the actions of the Nazis) suffer for the “Bad” Christians actions over the centuries. As I said before, when justice has been granted those millions that Christians have butchered over the centuries, then and only then can Christians cry about being persecuted. Until then, it is pure hypocrisy to bemoan Christian persecution!
QUOTE(mako @ Apr 5 2006, 10:52 PM) [snapback]1135029[/snapback]
Ramster, I realize that there a majority of Christians are basically good folk, but your God has set the example of punishing the children from the father’s sins. Therefore all Christians must (as did all Germans for the actions of the Nazis) suffer for the “Bad” Christians actions over the centuries. As I said before, when justice has been granted those millions that Christians have butchered over the centuries, then and only then can Christians cry about being persecuted. Until then, it is pure hypocrisy to bemoan Christian persecution!
I don't think anyone should suffer...
Mako you can NOT be serious. Think of all the "GOOD" Christians out there Mako- there are plenty of them so you wouldnt care if they got persecuted- you are encouraging people to be persecuted for their faith and indicate it is well deserved pay back. Mako what the hell? All the intelligence i thought you had has been wiped away with such a disgusting comment- you might be a historian- but morally...you're messed up.
At least he had some intelligence to begin with, unlike you.
Appearently all of you have missed the point of his post.
According to the common opinion here, we should not forget about the mistakes done to our ancestors......but people here like to forget the mistakes done by our ancestors.
Mako, my friend there is no apology or justise that sponge away the blood of thousands of years of human history. How can I make up for the sorrow my European anciestors inflected on Native Americans. All we can do is try to do better and not repeat the mistakes of history.
This is why historians have an important role in society to remind us of errors of the past.
And why unbias historical research is so important. You can't bend history to fit what we would like it to be. As they say those who don't know history are doom to repeat it.
That's why it is so important to point out our own mistakes, not point out the mistakes of others who aren't here to listen anyway. But the desire to better ones self seems to be of little value compared to craving for sensation and stories you can rant about.
With the growth of institutions comes the growth of variety. The institutions part, so that division of opinions is not prevalent in a community of opinions. To avoid any further division unity is necessary. A common goal cannot unite people, since there cannot not be one in an institution. Human nature is complex, and every human being is different. There can however be a common trait. The most common of traits is the common enemy. An enemy is a power that is strong enough to pose a threat, to the individual AND the unity. This can only be another institution.
Persecution.....
War......
Genocide......
Like Irish said, religion, either conceptual or organized, is not the only institution, and the problem is not the institution itself, it's in the heart of men.
But the heart of men has been systematically shaped for centuries and millenia, with timeless tools he has built himself.
At least he had some intelligence to begin with, unlike you.
Appearently all of you have missed the point of his post.
According to the common opinion here, we should not forget about the mistakes done to our ancestors......but people here like to forget the mistakes done by our ancestors.
Mako, my friend there is no apology or justise that sponge away the blood of thousands of years of human history. How can I make up for the sorrow my European anciestors inflected on Native Americans. All we can do is try to do better and not repeat the mistakes of history.
This is why historians have an important role in society to remind us of errors of the past.
And why unbias historical research is so important. You can't bend history to fit what we would like it to be. As they say those who don't know history are doom to repeat it.
That's why it is so important to point out our own mistakes, not point out the mistakes of others who aren't here to listen anyway. But the desire to better ones self seems to be of little value compared to craving for sensation and stories you can rant about.
With the growth of institutions comes the growth of variety. The institutions part, so that division of opinions is not prevalent in a community of opinions. To avoid any further division unity is necessary. A common goal cannot unite people, since there cannot not be one in an institution. Human nature is complex, and every human being is different. There can however be a common trait. The most common of traits is the common enemy. An enemy is a power that is strong enough to pose a threat, to the individual AND the unity. This can only be another institution.
Persecution.....
War......
Genocide......
Like Irish said, religion, either conceptual or organized, is not the only institution, and the problem is not the institution itself, it's in the heart of men.
But the heart of men has been systematically shaped for centuries and millenia, with timeless tools he has built himself.
mako has a good point, really. the christian god punished his people for their ancestor's sins... so doesn't that set some sort of precedent? i don't understand how he can still be considered a just god after doing that..
QUOTE(rose_ashes @ Apr 5 2006, 03:04 PM) [snapback]1135049[/snapback]
mako has a good point, really. the christian god punished his people for their ancestor's sins... so doesn't that set some sort of precedent? i don't understand how he can still be considered a just god after doing that..
Wow is someone actually insulting our mako???
Can't you disagree Snnnaaake without insulting.Mako is well respected and would never insult you..i think he has a great point too.....
Wow is someone actually insulting our mako??? Can't you disagree Snnnaaake without insulting.Mako is well respected and would never insult you..i think he has a great point too.....
I'm not mako, am I?
But this beside, you misread my response. Next time, do yourself a favour and read the whole thread.
I'm not mako, am I?
But this beside, you misread my response. Next time, do yourself a favour and read the whole thread.
QUOTE(ramster83 @ Apr 4 2006, 07:55 PM) [snapback]1133880[/snapback]
Mako most of those dates you listed were hundreds, heck maybe thousands of years ago! It doesnt make it any better of course not- and im first to jump in like and say christians were never "innocent"...Yet one thing that weakens your case is the FACT that Christians are one of the most persecuted groups today, in this "modern" civilization- also did you read my links on the Turkish cleansing of Christians (1.5 million) in 1915- 1917 and the 1.5 million Christians executed in Sudan in 1984 by the "Janjaweed"?
Also my example of being able to come to Australia and many more "Christian" countries and enjoy the freedom to practise your faith- Mosques stand tall and proud- Synagogues sit by the Beach- Churches bells ring hourly- yet WHY are Christians not allowed the same religious freedom where they are a minority TODAY? Not hundreds, not thousands of years ago Mako- were talking about today...Where they are being beheaded in Indonesia- Burned Alive in India- Jailed and Killed in China- Slashed and Taken of their Posessions in Saudi Arabia...Over 500 Churches Burned down in Java....What is your explanation!
I am disgusted at how hush everyone has become about these LATEST atrocities against Christians not to "offend" anyone or not to be seen as "racist" that is allowing the further mistreatment of Christians! Lets forget numbers and start to realize the time we are living in now- were meant to be tolerant but were as bad as we always have been! This time its the Christians that are getting persecuted and people seem to think they "deserve" it for their bad past? Lets forget the past and look into the future- theres no future with the current "its okay" attitude towards the killing of Christians (staying in topic).
Yeah, churches, mosques, synagogues, all on one place, together like good neighbours.
Sounds like Bosnia before the war in 1992. Yes, before the serbian armada decided to get rid off moslems just because they are moslems. I am sure you all know that 8000 moslems were killed (butchered)in one day i 1995 in Srebrenica by Serb orthodox christians.
So this was not a thousend years ago rather pretty much like yesterday.
Anyways. It is not the christians, moslems, jews or pagans who kill. It is the human garbage who uses the religion for it's sick and perverted goals.
We should stop blaming each other religion or faith for all the bad that happens.
Guns do not kill, humans do. Same with the religion.
QUOTE
I am sure you all know that 8000 moslems were killed (butchered)in one day i 1995 in Srebrenica by Serb orthodox christians.
Yeah, spent a little time there and saw some of it.
QUOTE
Guns do not kill, humans do. Same with the religion.
But when the religion's god advocates violence as does the god of Abraham's Three Bloody Children, it is all too easy for the adherents of that religion to resort to violence against those not agreeing with them. You can blame the religion as well as the followers
QUOTE(Snake_6024 @ Apr 5 2006, 11:26 PM) [snapback]1135075[/snapback]
Wow is someone actually insulting our mako??? Can't you disagree Snnnaaake without insulting.Mako is well respected and would never insult you..i think he has a great point too.....
I'm not mako, am I?
But this beside, you misread my response. Next time, do yourself a favour and read the whole thread.
You went a tad far in throwing an insult to Mako...like Sheri says...if you disagree with him..just say so..with out the darn insult
QUOTE(Snake_6024 @ Apr 5 2006, 11:03 PM) [snapback]1135045[/snapback]
[color=#990000]Mako you can NOT be serious. Think of all the "GOOD" Christians out
At least he had some intelligence to begin with, unlike you.
Appearently all of you have missed the point of his post.
No NOT ALL Snakke...a few have understood this thread...I for one ...after all it was me that raised the issue to begin with...maybe you need to re-read the thread...and take a sec look
the thing that i've never quite understood about religious martyrs...
if god really loved his people and wanted them to live a good life on earth, why would he want them to die for him? honestly, if one of my loved ones was in a situation where they had the choice to either deny me or die, i would be begging them to deny me! i wouldn't want them to die in my name. just my opinion... but i don't understand the logic behind someone who would want people they love to die if it meant they would die in his name. sounds rather egotistical..
if god really loved his people and wanted them to live a good life on earth, why would he want them to die for him? honestly, if one of my loved ones was in a situation where they had the choice to either deny me or die, i would be begging them to deny me! i wouldn't want them to die in my name. just my opinion... but i don't understand the logic behind someone who would want people they love to die if it meant they would die in his name. sounds rather egotistical..
QUOTE(rose_ashes @ Apr 6 2006, 12:07 AM) [snapback]1135125[/snapback]
the thing that i've never quite understood about religious martyrs...
if god really loved his people and wanted them to live a good life on earth, why would he want them to die for him? honestly, if one of my loved ones was in a situation where they had the choice to either deny me or die, i would be begging them to deny me! i wouldn't want them to die in my name. just my opinion... but i don't understand the logic behind someone who would want people they love to die if it meant they would die in his name. sounds rather egotistical..
Once again rose or should I say LOL the lovely rose
has come up with yet another good point....WHY indeed...this is just another lil reason as to WHY I dont believe what the bible says about God...and not only that it says that he asked Abraham to prove his loyality to him by taking the life of his very one child...when I heard that for the 1st time (many mons ago) I was shocked......it makes him sound ...whats the word I am looking for?? ..........Power hungry?? Greedy?? see thius is NOT how I see God at all and I am within my rights to say so
LOL... whenever i think of that whole abraham and isaac story, i can't help but wonder if it was april first...
"APRIL FOOLS! here's a sheep. kill it instead. bet i really got ya this time, huh, abe?"
"APRIL FOOLS! here's a sheep. kill it instead. bet i really got ya this time, huh, abe?"
QUOTE(rose_ashes @ Apr 6 2006, 12:14 AM) [snapback]1135132[/snapback]
LOL... whenever i think of that whole abraham and isaac story, i can't help but wonder if it was april first...
"APRIL FOOLS! here's a sheep. kill it instead. bet i really got ya this time, huh, abe?"
LOL I just remebered it was Abe...but it is something the devil would say but not God...why would God want you to kill your own kid or anything for that matter just to prove a point...if God is ALL knowing then he would KNOW if Abe was loyal or not
If God asked me to kill my lil Girl I would without thought say...NOT A MISSION ...I will put my child in front of anyone and that includes you too Lord.....feck I would get pissed at him..and I wouldnt care what he did after that...my child needs me...he doesnt
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Apr 6 2006, 10:12 AM) [snapback]1135130[/snapback]
Once again rose or should I say LOL the lovely rose
has come up with yet another good point....WHY indeed...this is just another lil reason as to WHY I dont believe what the bible says about God...and not only that it says that he asked Abraham to prove his loyality to him by taking the life of his very one child...when I heard that for the 1st time (many mons ago) I was shocked......it makes him sound ...whats the word I am looking for?? ..........Power hungry?? Greedy?? see thius is NOT how I see God at all and I am within my rights to say so Yeah but doesnt the fact that God actually did NOT want him to kill his son show that God did have compassion and just wanted knowledge that Abraham truely loved him? God knew Abraham loved him prior- but he wanted Abraham to see if he himself realized his love for God and it showed human spirit- i think Abraham had faith that God would not want his son to be killed and went along with what God had asked- and God replaced his son with a nice lamby meal....I dont know i think people make this story sound worse than it is- because despite the fact God "asked" for Abrahams son- he never "took" him....God was thankful that Abraham was not true to God but true to himself!
QUOTE(ramster83 @ Apr 5 2006, 10:01 PM) [snapback]1135311[/snapback]
Yeah but doesnt the fact that God actually did NOT want him to kill his son show that God did have compassion and just wanted knowledge that Abraham truely loved him? God knew Abraham loved him prior- but he wanted Abraham to see if he himself realized his love for God and it showed human spirit- i think Abraham had faith that God would not want his son to be killed and went along with what God had asked- and God replaced his son with a nice lamby meal....I dont know i think people make this story sound worse than it is- because despite the fact God "asked" for Abrahams son- he never "took" him....God was thankful that Abraham was not true to God but true to himself!
Ramster
I found your thought on God wanting Abraham to see his own love interesting.
I personally do not take these stories literally. I find it silly that a creator would ask one to sacrifice his own son only to stop him at the last minute. However I thought I would interject this in regards to the story of Abraham which perhaps some didn't know. Kabbalah does not teach it literally either. They teach the esoterics of scripture. From their point of view Abraham's son represented the fruits of Abraham's labor and Abraham having to lose his attachment to the fruit of labor. The ram represents a part of himself (ego) that he had to kill in order to be at one with God. You could've already known that, just thought you might find it interesting.
QUOTE(ramster83 @ Apr 5 2006, 10:01 PM) [snapback]1135311[/snapback]
Yeah but doesnt the fact that God actually did NOT want him to kill his son show that God did have compassion and just wanted knowledge that Abraham truely loved him?
"wanted knowledge that Abraham truely loved him".......?????
God did not know if Abraham loved him
God is not omniscient!
There is another group of people who were persecuted through time by no reason other than who they are, the disabled.
Forgot the link http://www.jackiebarrett.ca/DisabledDiscrimination2.htm
So if old Darkwind was an ancient roman he would be expected to throw himself on his sword to save his families face.
QUOTE
Although the Roman Empire was an advanced and powerful society in ancient and early medieval times, they still showed the dark sides of their culture similar to Ancient Greeks, although not as extreme since many disabled persons were allowed to live. Like the Greeks, since the Roman Empire were firm believers of the concept "mens sana in corpore sano", or healthy body, healthy mind in Latin, a person not having a physical disability doesn't have a mental disability as well. Due to this concept, some disabled persons were drown in a river, some murdered in a colosseum, particularly children from Patrician and noble classes since a disabled child cannot carry on a family name and fortune, and children from peasant or farming families since they were unable to meet the required physical demands with scarce resources. Furthermore, if a person had a disability later in life, committing suicide was actually considered an honourable thing, especially those from Patrician families, no joke.
Forgot the link http://www.jackiebarrett.ca/DisabledDiscrimination2.htm
QUOTE
Due to the Catholic Church's teaching and their influence in medieval Europe, their people were often taught to treat disabled persons as heretics, works of the devil, and outcasts. In addition, when social upheaval, plagues, or pestilence occured, they were often used as scapegoats as sinners or evil persons who brought disasters upon them though its not their fault. Becoming disfigured or different was even more dangerous because you can become branded as a work of the devil and face strong societal and church prejudice.
Blatant and unjust discrimination against disabled persons was not just evident in medieval and renaissance Europe, but was also a problem in China, Japan, India, Aztec Empire, Islamic Empire (Islam was a religious empire during Medieval era), and pre-Columbian empires (Aztecs and Incas).
Blatant and unjust discrimination against disabled persons was not just evident in medieval and renaissance Europe, but was also a problem in China, Japan, India, Aztec Empire, Islamic Empire (Islam was a religious empire during Medieval era), and pre-Columbian empires (Aztecs and Incas).
So if old Darkwind was an ancient roman he would be expected to throw himself on his sword to save his families face.
Discrimination in the Bible?
Leviticus 21
17 Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.
18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,
19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,
20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;
21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.
22 He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy.
23 Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD do sanctify them.
2 Sam.5:8
And David said on that day, Whosoever getteth up to the gutter, and smiteth the Jebusites, and the lame and the blind that are hated of David's soul, he shall be chief and captain. Wherefore they said, The blind and the lame shall not come into the house.
-----------------------------------------
Not related: The Brick Testament
Leviticus 21
17 Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.
18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,
19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,
20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;
21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.
22 He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy.
23 Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD do sanctify them.
2 Sam.5:8
And David said on that day, Whosoever getteth up to the gutter, and smiteth the Jebusites, and the lame and the blind that are hated of David's soul, he shall be chief and captain. Wherefore they said, The blind and the lame shall not come into the house.
-----------------------------------------
Not related: The Brick Testament
QUOTE(zandore @ Apr 6 2006, 03:30 PM) [snapback]1135882[/snapback]
"wanted knowledge that Abraham truely loved him".......?????
God did not know if Abraham loved him
God is not omniscient!
This is why I don't believe in this story..no ofence to those that do ...but if it where true....could it have been the devil himself making Abe think he was talking to God? Just to get him to kill his own child?
Not sure about that BM. Remember the story of Job? The devil persuaded god to let him torment one of gods most ardent followers in the hopes of getting Job to curse god.
Seems to me that a deity that would allow his most faithful follower to be persecuted like that, would have no problem "testing" another of his followers by ordering him to sacrifice his own son. Altho, an omnisceint, omipotent god would surely already know that Abraham would do as he was told..............
And not to be a wet blanket or anything, but I am rather alarmed that so many are surprised about the persecution of the early christians. Don't any of y'all study history? Or watch any old movies?
Seems to me that a deity that would allow his most faithful follower to be persecuted like that, would have no problem "testing" another of his followers by ordering him to sacrifice his own son. Altho, an omnisceint, omipotent god would surely already know that Abraham would do as he was told..............
And not to be a wet blanket or anything, but I am rather alarmed that so many are surprised about the persecution of the early christians. Don't any of y'all study history? Or watch any old movies?
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Apr 7 2006, 09:17 PM) [snapback]1138315[/snapback]
Not sure about that BM. Remember the story of Job? The devil persuaded god to let him torment one of gods most ardent followers in the hopes of getting Job to curse god.
JM......
Job 42:11
Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
Sort of puts a new spin on things!
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Apr 7 2006, 05:34 AM) [snapback]1136191[/snapback]
This is why I don't believe in this story..no ofence to those that do ...but if it where true....could it have been the devil himself making Abe think he was talking to God? Just to get him to kill his own child?
No simply put this was for Abrahams benefit - not God. God KNEW Abraham loved him- but Abraham as a mere person...did HE know how much he loved God? That day was a realization for him- God didnt torture Abraham or test him- Ive said it before its a story of faith and trust...Abraham had trust in God- and God didnt disappoint him in the end...Simply put people make this story SO much worse than it actually is. This was for Abraham to know how much he loved God...God had NO benefit from it, only Abraham Did-
he gained trust in God- still had his son- and a delicious lamb. Amen to that.
If you insist ramster. But it seems rather convolute logic to me.
"Hey, I am going to ask you to do something that goes beyond the norm, but its not for my benefit, oh no! It is for you my beloved disciple! Wrestle with your conscience and agree to do this horrible thing that I am asking you, and you will be rewarded by acknowledging your faith in me! Fail and you will be denied my grace. But it isn't a test, really, because I know you adore me, its so that YOU will know you adore me"
If it works for you old son, then welcome to it.
"Hey, I am going to ask you to do something that goes beyond the norm, but its not for my benefit, oh no! It is for you my beloved disciple! Wrestle with your conscience and agree to do this horrible thing that I am asking you, and you will be rewarded by acknowledging your faith in me! Fail and you will be denied my grace. But it isn't a test, really, because I know you adore me, its so that YOU will know you adore me"
If it works for you old son, then welcome to it.
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Apr 4 2006, 09:19 AM) [snapback]1132904[/snapback]
I couldn't get that type of image out of my head last night..it is disturbing to say the least. Sick thing to sit and watch some lil kids & toddlers being attacked by blood thirsty lions, having their very heads torn off and eaten.
..and what got me was the people in the audience laughing thinking the lil children deserved it WTF???? I hope ALL of them that did this and even those who laughed at it..I hope they ALL rotted in hell 
Being a christian should not have been like a threat FFSAKE...and couldnt they see that those lil children most likely didn't understand religion??? Sick freaks...I know God is all forgiving but geee there is a line to cross, there just has to be.I never understood as to WHY Jesus said while on the cross..."Forgive them father, for they know not what they do".....of course they know what they are doing..the sick freaks!!!
Hmm you mean sick, twisted, disturbing, brainless, freaks!!
Manfred I have learned about how christian leaders killed children and those who where non christian ect ect and other religious faiths have committed more or less the same crimes...dont forget I am from N.Ireland..and ofr over 30 years catholics where shot dead for being catholics ....but that should be a seprate thread don't you think?? As this one id purely about the christians that where brutally killed and eaten not to forget burnt alive for their faith
I know it happened in Iraq...I have read about all the horrid torture that Sadam had done on to others and he did it to his own people as well as christians...he and his sons used to throw christians (or anyone that was not a muslim) and some muslims that where accused of showing disrespect to ie - A poster of Sadam himself..as it where a crime to so much as to take off your shoe and beat the poster of Sadam with it...ohh this is true I saw it on the news...what he did to those people..he had them fed into a shredder...some went feet 1st..some went in head 1st...he had some placed into steel coffins and layed out into the desert in the hot sun to die, his sons used to film themselves torturing other muslims as well as chrsitians..by chopping off their limbs ect......I know all about this..and I am glad his two sons are dead and glad that sadam was finally captured...pity they didnt torture him in the same way he had others tortured
...from what I believe the freak is still alive!!!It was really sad to read such horrific stories like that...like I said before I couldn't dream of hurting a christian or anyone for that matter just because they follow a faith???!! They seem to think history will repeat itself...I just hope not
Yes but how many times have christians persucted people? All religions suck the world would be a better place without religion.
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Apr 9 2006, 01:22 AM) [snapback]1138870[/snapback]
If you insist ramster. But it seems rather convolute logic to me.
"Hey, I am going to ask you to do something that goes beyond the norm, but its not for my benefit, oh no! It is for you my beloved disciple! Wrestle with your conscience and agree to do this horrible thing that I am asking you, and you will be rewarded by acknowledging your faith in me! Fail and you will be denied my grace. But it isn't a test, really, because I know you adore me, its so that YOU will know you adore me"
If it works for you old son, then welcome to it.
Yeah well its the best interpretation i could come up with. If Abraham didnt experience such an event would he truely have known how much he had loved God? Sometimes we dont even realize how much we love someone or something...What Abraham was told to do was illogical of course but he didnt feel threatened by it- if he did he would have challenged the question and in the end he could breathe and say "wow...i must REALLY love God"...
Not saying im right but im trying to make it understandable because the current conception just seems to be a lot worse than it actually is.
QUOTE(eden grange @ Apr 9 2006, 01:24 AM) [snapback]1138875[/snapback]
Yes but how many times have christians persucted people? All religions suck the world would be a better place without religion.
If all people just stuck to the core of most religions- which is Love God and Love Each Other...Religion would be the best thing to have happened...People screwed up what potentially could have been a beautiful thing.
yeah but.....
RamsterI once worked with a man who had a son that was very emotionally and mentally scarred. He had a few medical problems that were intenisfied because he had been sexually abused by a daycare worker.
I tell you this so you know the background for what follows.
We worked nights, so the father was home during the day to take care of the boy. One day, he went to bed to get some rest. While asleep, the boy aged 13, started a fire. Deliberately. Then called 911 so that the fire department would put out the fire. He then went and woke his father and they got out of the house. The boy turned to his dad and said "I saved you!" He couldn't comprehend why he was not bestowed with laurels and praise for doing a 'good thing'. He couldn't comprehend the fact that if he didn't START the fire, the dad wouldn't NEED saving.
I understand that your response above was your 'take' on the story. But, when you say that god 'got nothing out of it', you are wrong. Abraham became even more devoted to his god. Think on it: God makes an outrageous request (whether or not god intends Abraham to carry this out, we do not know), then shows 'mercy' at the last moment and 'spares' the boy sacrifice. Why would god need to have Abraham become so aware of how much he worshipped god?
That is similiar to my wife telling me she is leaving me forever just to gauge my reaction, then saying "See? I knew you loved me...."
Kind of like emotional blackmail. No offense to any believers here, but the more people try to explain these bizarre demands of the hebrew/christian god, the more I am content that I have renounced that god.
An omnipotent, omniscient god should NEED nothing.
RamsterI once worked with a man who had a son that was very emotionally and mentally scarred. He had a few medical problems that were intenisfied because he had been sexually abused by a daycare worker.
I tell you this so you know the background for what follows.
We worked nights, so the father was home during the day to take care of the boy. One day, he went to bed to get some rest. While asleep, the boy aged 13, started a fire. Deliberately. Then called 911 so that the fire department would put out the fire. He then went and woke his father and they got out of the house. The boy turned to his dad and said "I saved you!" He couldn't comprehend why he was not bestowed with laurels and praise for doing a 'good thing'. He couldn't comprehend the fact that if he didn't START the fire, the dad wouldn't NEED saving.
I understand that your response above was your 'take' on the story. But, when you say that god 'got nothing out of it', you are wrong. Abraham became even more devoted to his god. Think on it: God makes an outrageous request (whether or not god intends Abraham to carry this out, we do not know), then shows 'mercy' at the last moment and 'spares' the boy sacrifice. Why would god need to have Abraham become so aware of how much he worshipped god?
That is similiar to my wife telling me she is leaving me forever just to gauge my reaction, then saying "See? I knew you loved me...."
Kind of like emotional blackmail. No offense to any believers here, but the more people try to explain these bizarre demands of the hebrew/christian god, the more I am content that I have renounced that god.
An omnipotent, omniscient god should NEED nothing.
JMPD1 thats a good example and i do see it from your angle too...I just think theres no "Judeo/Christian" God- i believe God is one God of all faiths and religions - as for the Bible well...theres thousands of unanswered questions- some things we just wont understand theres plenty of good and some bad- word of God? Maybe...once upon a time...maybe not...Yet all that isnt important- the main idea of most religions is to love your God and your fellow man and thats just not happening nowadays.
pretty much every group has at one time or another been persecuted in some way, nothing new.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.