Who really believes in the Roswell, New Mexico fiasco, and who doesn't? Why or why not?

I do believe that aliens crashed there in the 1940's and that ever since, the government has tried to hide it from the public. This where the infamous Area 51 comes into play, which is only a very minor secret base in the alien network.

I think the military/government acted a bit funny during the whole thing. So I feel something important crashed there. Eye witness testomony is plentifull in the favor of aliens. I don't see a reason why a bunch of people would just lie and make it up. Witnesses such as military personel etc. risk their jobs and lives just to talk about aliens. Why would the government get so pissed anyways. That alone is alarming enough.

The Roswell Incident was nothing but the crash and later recovery of a top secret Project Mogul spy balloon that was being tested. What do I have to support this? The original person who found the debris, Mac Brazel, reported that the debris consisted of sticks, tape, and aluminum-foil-like material. That's it. No story about indestructible debris or anything alien. A rancher found debris that he considered strange. He reported it, it was collected, a military officer unaware of the Mogul project mistakenly reported it as a flying saucer, and the report was rightly retracted. That's it.
Since then the Roswell Story has become a myth of epical proportion. Myths form very easily. Also, the testimonies of people 50 years after the fact are not very reliable. Human memory is very, very, very falliable. The discovery channel did an experiment were they had random subjects walk past a staged ufo crash. There was one guard who just stood there. Weeks later, when these people were interviewed, they reported many guards, a huge field of debris (it was very small), and even that they were threatened and had guns pointed at them. If mere weeks can do that to human memory, imagine what fifty years can do.
Roswell is a myth, in my opinion. It is a good story, but has very little supporting evidence. I think human psychology is the biggest killer to this myth, as it plainly shows the falliability of human memory. I also think everyone should actually read Mac Brazel's original testimony. Unless ET came to earth in a flying saucer made out of sticks and tin foil, there was no alien spaceship.

yes!

you know what, those are some very great points you have!!!

Very well done!

no, in my opinion that is total utter bull sh** your talking, im sorry but i must stand for what i believe in, and people should stand with me. have you never heard the other part of that story? the part about the americans in area51 taking in the ufo ruins and planting a hoax ruin were it landed? no, i take it you havnt. they did it in hope people would be fooled and hopefully more people would be lead to thinking that most ufo appearences are faked. which some are, but most are not. you need to open your mind my friend. do not just keep your minds boundaries shut like the goverment would want you. think about it. area51! americans! ufos! it all makes sence!
hu! next you will be saying that scooby doo isnt real!

Well, Scooby would certainly be interesting evidence of alien tampering.

Good way to de-bunk the incident. You should work for the government. Your story is a logical fallacy. Your making an assumption off a "few" possible explanations. But what your not doing is taking into account is other witness testomonys such as military personel who worked on the material and the technology. Mulitple witness from the army came forth in the later years and told what the had worked on personally. The facts are if it where a test spy plane why would the government go to great lenghts to cover it up? And also they don't have "spy" weather ballons. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose considering its a balllon and can be spotted easly and moves slowy and uncontrolably. Please don't insult the men of high ranks who claim what they saw. They have credibility 10x yours given they actually worked for the military and was there.

Ah, excellent, well, with a comment like this, we should know to expect logical and reasoned arguments to be forthcoming.



Actually no, he isn't making any assumptions. He is actually stating exactly what the records of the matter claim.

Also, exactly what are you talking about as a logical fallacy? Which one?



If witnesses were all it took to prove something, then we would have to claim the sun revolves around the Earth, since over 60% of the world population believes it.



If it were a test plane, then the government would go to great lengths to cover it up because, when the world is at war, you keep your military secrets...well, secret.

As it turns out, however, the Roswell incident has nothing to do with test planes.



The Mogul balloons were not for spying. Nor would they be easy to spot if they were, considering the were meant to cruise at over 20,000 feet of altitude.



Only if they actually did work for the military and were actually there, and, for that matter, actually made the claims too. As it turns out, many of these witnesses were neither in the military (claiming that they were on 'special assignment" or somesuch, meaning there are no records they can present), were not there (meaning that everything they claim is from second-hand information) or even claimed the things they were meant to have claimed (mainly because authors give themselves a bit too much liberty in telling the story).

Tell you what: If you want to establish your credibility on the subject, how about you start with the basics? Can you tell us the story of Roswell? I mean the original story, the one that actually happened and was recorded way back in the forties, as opposed to the alien crazy versions that began popping up in the eighties? Can you show us that you are able to differentiate between the original version and the one that grew almost fifty years after the original event?

Major Jesse Marcel,intelligence officer at Roswell Army Air Field,examined the debris and stated 'it was not of this earth'.

I must admit, i was always uncertain about this, i'd hear one peice of valid evidence in favour of the ufo, and another valid against it...right now, i remain uncertain...

well for example the original roswell paper of the day it happened had a statement from a military comander saying it was a flying saucer, I think he would know the difference. Hours later they changed the story to a weather ballon. Not only this incident made me believe it was aliens. It's the obvoius cover-up of ufo's and aliens by the government. 1000's of people have seen them and made contact. So why wouldn't roswell have been aliens? I'm not sure where you get your information but there has been in fact military personel who have came forward, not just temporarys but real army people. I have links to information. Have you actually researched this?

http://www.earthfiles.com/

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/04/09.html

the man in this show was ex-military and very credible

http://www.wavsource.com/news/news.htm

scroll down and you can find the original radio news story in wav format.

there are some other cool news wavs in there also. enjoy.

Quite a bit.



Don't skip over the facts, now. The person that annonced that a "flying disk" had been found was not the commander of the base. It was the Press officer. The commander of the base, as soon as he saw the headline, immediately issued a retraction. That is what you do when you see an error.

But let's pretend you are talking about Jesse Marcel, the intel officer, the only guy who actually went to the ranch to look at the debris. Why would you assume he knew what he was looking at?



Well, if you are only glossing over the general story instead of looking at the facts of the case objectively on the Roswell story, perhaps you are doing the same to the other stories.



Again, you can line up as many people as you like with impecable credentials, and I can line up thousands more that will claim the sun revolves around the Earth. Witnesses are simply not realiable. Not because they lie, although, they sometimes do, not because they are mistaken, although they frequently are, but simply because there are way too many factors involved in a person deciding what they saw to ever consider a testimony to be an objective source.

Now, Here is the thing: All these witnesses of yours...how many of them came out with their stories before the eighties, when the whole Roswell mythology took off?

This is the major failing of the Roswell UFO crash hypothesis. Before the late 70s/ early 80s this event was more of a non-event. It wasn't until Friedman and Moore investigated that the UFO crash hypothesis became popular. Now, Jesse Marcel came forward at about the same time and made the claims about odd debris and a cover up, hard to tell what Mr. Marcel's motivation may have been. I don't think there's anyway we'll ever know for sure what is *truth*, and what is mythology, as far as this one goes.

Marcel can actually be forgiven for some of his confusion, but there is no doubt that his statements have been wildly exagerrated for effect by people trying to promote their version of what happened.

I thought no one said anything untill the 80's? And it was a big event in 47 but people stopped talking about it untill some real investigating went on. It doesn't seem odd the human race expecially usa has had a technological jump sinse the late 40's/50's. Last night on coast to coast the show had co. philip corcel on there who personally worked with the material many years later. I don't understand why this is all so hard to fathom for people. Ufo's have been in our culture and societies for 1000's of years. Aliens or whatever they may be have been here along time just research a bit will ya. They may not be from another planet but some kind of entity is prowling our skies.

Whatever the truth may be, it (the alien explanation) sure sounds more interesting than the spy balloon.

Although the balloon thing DOES make more sense.

Actually, they stopped talking about it because it wasn't interesting anymore. The only reason it was so interesting at the time is because of a very significant event in UFO history that occurred a mere week prior to Roswell. That was when Palmer saw his "disks skipping across the air like saucers". The press immediately turned this into flying saucers and strove to find aliens wherever it could. Like most fads, it died a quick death and was resurrected in the future, in this case over thirty years later. Around 1978, Daieken and Berlitz began publishing their books containing some fairly wild interpretations of alien encounters.



Not particularly. After all, we've been having a massive technological jump for the past 500 years, and its getting faster. I would credit the invention of scientific methodology.



I'm sure he did. Many people did. Heck, today, the same material is used to sell pop-tarts and wrap comic books in. It was a precursor to mylar.



Actually, no, UFO's haven't been in our culture all that long. Prior to being UFO's, they were angels, demons, omens, and a variety of other things. Sure, you can try and make the argument that these were simply interpretations from a backwards culture, but the simple fact of the matter is that there is more evidence of these things being more cultural than specific. In short, there is a clear link with these reports and mythology, as opposed to these reports and actual events.

One of the military general's who was involved at Roswell told his granddaughter he saw "creatures" at the Roswell crashsite on his deathbed. The granddaughter said it on a Roswell special on the History Channel. Of course all we have is her word.

Yep. And, again, no reports of bodies show up till the eighties.

Im not a ufologist by any stretch but did read an interesting book awhile back. If you Aquatus or any skeptics get a chance to read "Top Secret/Majic : Operation Majestic-12 and the United States Government's UFO Cover-up, I would recommend it. The book is written by a Stanton T, Friedman who is apparantly a well renouned nuclear physicist and UFO investigator. They make some good claims, and I remember at the time I thought it all seemed pretty fishy. Now I don't remember some of the hard facts he had against the Majestic 12, who are a team of geniuses that look into UFO activity, but once again, at the time it seemed very interesting. Once again, just a recommendation.

Actually the bodies that got brought up in the 80's are from reports and stories from 47, so indeed military personel seen bodies at the air force base in 47. Also early humans had no idea about space and biological functions, so yeah they were the demons, angels, gods or whatever from early culture stories. So with that whats so hard to believe they crashed in roswell? Not only roswell but all kinds of crash recovery incidents has supposedly happened. It seems you pride yourself on de-bunking anything just to dis-inform the subject matter. Based on your aurgument it's obvious you don't know any facts just alternative possiblities. I don't have any solid facts either I'm just saying what I believe. If it were a weather ballon it wouldn't have been a big deal to the government. People probably wouldn't even care, BUT there are lots of circumstantial evidence pointing towards aliens. Supposed materials, eye witnesses after the crash and to the materials, conflicting stories from the media and government. Thats enough in the judicial system to obtain a warrant or put someone in prison in real life. I can't for 100% say that was was indeed aliens but It looks that way from an overview. Please respond I meant no offence to you.

p.s where did you get pop tarts out of this?

Because there is not one single piece of physical evidence that would conclusively prove this is what happened.


No, it's called skepticism. Before we acknowledge aliens, let's make sure there exists irrefutable scientific evidence. Also, it is a very good idea to look for natural explanations before coming to paranormal conclusions.


No one did care. A rancher found wierd debris, called Roswell Army Airfield, Marcel came, was unfamiliar with the debris, issued a pre-mature press release, the material was taken in, identified, the report was retracted, and Mogul was covered-up as a wheather balloon. Nothing else. Everyone forgot about it until the 80's.


Possibly, but it is nowhere NEAR enough to establish it as a scientific fact. Really, for the existence of visiting extraterrestrials to be proven, we need a body. You would think that after visiting us for thousands of years and crashing so many times we would be able to get hold of a body. Until we have one, the existence of visiting aliens cannot be conclusively proven.

No, sorry, no cigar. The first report of bodies in connection with the Roswell incident do not pop up till Daineken pulls up a different incident from a different part of New Mexico and decides to tie it into the Roswell story. Berlitz promptly quotes him. You will not find a single account of bodies in the Roswell reports from the original press releases or reports.



Except they did not act like the aliens we know of today. No reports of abductions, of crashed spacecraft, of mutilated animals, nothing, but a few pictures that some people point to as aliens without pointing out identical pictures that are most definitely human.



Because, of all the crashes, all the incidents, all the bodies, not a single scrap anywhere has been definitively been shown not to originate under less than banal conditions.



Actually, I pride myself on education, and I try to get people to back up their claims in the hopes they will learn something about research for themselves. Most, however, see this as an accusation of ignorance, and consider it a personal insult.



Anything that is Top Secret (and, incidentally, MOGUL balloons could only very barely be refered to as weather balloons) is going to be taken very seriously by the military. If the balloon had stayed lost in the desert as it was presumed to be, not an issue. If the Top Secret military project is plastered on the front page of the local newsrag, it becomes an issue.



Actually no. Circumstancial evidence (and that includes witness testimony) is very weak in comparison to objective evidence. You can have a dozen people claiming the defendant murdered the victim, but without any evidence, particularly the victims body, the case is most likely to be thrown out (my sister the lawyer explained the whole process to me)



The original report contains a reference to a metallic material that could be crumpled up and which then returned to its original shape. Marcel, the intel officer, would have recognized a weather balloon, but the MOGUL balloons, created from the precursor to mylar that today is regularly used everywhere (including pop-tarts) would not be anything like the things he was familiar with.

["Don't skip over the facts, now. The person that annonced that a "flying disk" had been found was not the commander of the base. It was the Press officer. The commander of the base, as soon as he saw the headline, immediately issued a retraction. That is what you do when you see an error."]


Sky---Colonel Blanchard, the commander, had ordered Lt. Haut to release that saucer story. Lt. Haut had no authority to release that story without the permission of the commander. I've had to correct quite a few folks at those skeptical websites on the way it's really done in the military.

"The Roswell Incident was nothing but the crash and later recovery of a top secret Project Mogul spy balloon that was being tested. What do I have to support this? The original person who found the debris, Mac Brazel, reported that the debris consisted of sticks, tape, and aluminum-foil-like material. "


Sky---No Mogul balloon train was involved and I have reviewed the wind data for the day the skeptics claim that Mogul balloon train #4 was launched. According to the wind data, there was no way that balloon #4 would end up anywhere near the Foster ranch and to further add, Mogul balloon trains were not classified and were occasionally recovered by ordinary civilians because of their low recovery priority. Sometimes, Mogul balloon trains were left out in open fields for days and because of that fact, one Mogul balloon train was vandalizied while lying next to a road.

Both Thomas Dubose and Jesse Marcel stated that the debris they posed with were not what was recovered on the Foster ranch. They both stated that the debris was placed in Ramey's office for the purpose of a cover-up. A document from higher headquarters was uncovered and it suggested that a weather balloon rawin device be use to cover-up the Roswell incident, thus the rawin device photos in Ramey's office. An Air Force commanding general has now confirmed that the Roswell incident involved extraterrestrial beings and alien bodies and their spacecrafts were brought to his base for examinations.

What the Air Force also failed to tell the public was that Project Mogul and Skyhook balloon teams had also witnessed UFOs over New Mexico and they recorded their sightings as well.


http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Mogul_UFOs.html

["Anything that is Top Secret (and, incidentally, MOGUL balloons could only very barely be refered to as weather balloons) is going to be taken very seriously by the military. If the balloon had stayed lost in the desert as it was presumed to be, not an issue. If the Top Secret military project is plastered on the front page of the local newsrag, it becomes an issue."]


Sky---Here is what a Mogul balloon train looks like at launch. Note the date.

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/files/princetn.jpg


And, here is what a downed Mogul balloon train would look like on the Foster ranch. Note it didn't fragment into a thousand pieces and looks nothing like a flying saucer nor would have been confused as such.

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Trenton_...mes_7-14-47.jpg


New Jersey was the State where the headquarters for Project Mogul was located.

Well, don't worry about doing that for me; I spent ten years in the military, both as enlisted and as an officer. What is important is to keep in mind how things were done in the military over half a century ago. In regards to Lt. Haut, there is a great deal of controversy as to where the actual wording of the report came from. Many people like to say it was dictated by the commander, however, from Haut, we get:

"When I pressed Haut about the authorship of the release, he answered frankly: "I cannot honestly remember whether I wrote it, whether he had given me the information and told me `This is what I want in it.' It was not that big a production at that time, in my mind."

"Well, there were quite a few reports of flying saucers at that time," Haut reminded me. "I had a multitude of hats I wore. I had all kinds of things to do. I asked my wife, when all this [the renewed interest in Roswell in the mid 1980s] started, `Do you remember me coming home and saying anything about it?"' Her reply, he recalled, was simply no.""

Remember that back then, the military didn't have the PR officers that we are used to seeing now, with the training to deal with the media. Essentially, the Press officer was an additional duty on top of everything else. Haut admits that he does not recal the commander saying anything about a flying saucer, and it is entirely possible that this calim did not come from the actual release that Haut hand-delivered, but rather from the conversation Haut had with the editor as he was delivering it. Remember that, at the time of the incident, flying saucers were all the rage, and the press was eager for more news about them.



And no one did. Incidentaly, that is only what a train would have looked like if it had come down to a gentle landing from a gradual loss of gas, not as it would have looked after having been dragged through a storm and high winds.

In regards as to the claims that what they posed for was a weather balloon and not the Roswell debris, that is perfectly true. After all, by then, the commander had been contacted and told he had the remains of a secured project. He wasn't going to stick it back on the news.

>>>>"Well, don't worry about doing that for me; I spent ten years in the military, both as enlisted and as an officer. What is important is to keep in mind how things were done in the military over half a century ago. In regards to Lt. Haut, there is a great deal of controversy as to where the actual wording of the report came from. Many people like to say it was dictated by the commander, however, from Haut, we get:

"When I pressed Haut about the authorship of the release, he answered frankly: "I cannot honestly remember whether I wrote it, whether he had given me the information and told me `This is what I want in it.' It was not that big a production at that time, in my mind."<<<<

Sky---Lt. Haut's affidavit
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) My name is Walter Haut


(2) My address is: XXXXXXXXXX


(3) I am retired.


(4) In July 1947, I was stationed at the Roswell Army Air base serving as the base Public Inofrmation Officer. At Approximately 9:30 AM on July 8, I received a call from Col. William Blanchard, the base commander, who said he had in his possession a flying saucer or parts thereof. He said it came from a ranch northwest of Roswell, and that the base Intelligence Officer, Major Jesse Marcel, was going to fly the material to Fort Worth.


(5) Col. Blanchard told me to write a news release about the operation and to deliver it to both newspapers and the two radio stations in Roswell. He felt that he wanted the local media to have the first opportunity at the story. I went first to KGFL, then to KSWS, then to the Daily Record and finally to the Morning Dispatch.


Signed: Walter G. Haut
5-14-93


Signature witnessed by:
M. Littell
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>"Well, there were quite a few reports of flying saucers at that time," Haut reminded me. "I had a multitude of hats I wore. I had all kinds of things to do. I asked my wife, when all this [the renewed interest in Roswell in the mid 1980s] started, `Do you remember me coming home and saying anything about it?"' Her reply, he recalled, was simply no.""

Remember that back then, the military didn't have the PR officers that we are used to seeing now, with the training to deal with the media. Essentially, the Press officer was an additional duty on top of everything else. Haut admits that he does not recal the commander saying anything about a flying saucer, and it is entirely possible that this calim did not come from the actual release that Haut hand-delivered, but rather from the conversation Haut had with the editor as he was delivering it. Remember that, at the time of the incident, flying saucers were all the rage, and the press was eager for more news about them.<<<<

Sky---Lt. Haut died recently and here is what was published in part.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

December 18, 2005

["Lt. Walter Haut, Spokesman Who Announced Wreckage Of Flying Saucer In Roswell, Died At 83

By Associated Press

ALBUQUERQUE - The man made famous for issuing a news release that said a flying saucer landed in Roswell has died.

Army Lt. Walter Haut, a former spokesman for the Roswell Army Air Field, died Thursday in Roswell, his daughter, Julie Shuster, said. He was 83.

Haut listened closely on July 8, 1947 as base commander Col. William Blanchard dictated a news release about a recovered flying saucer and ordered Haut to issue it.

The Roswell Daily Record newspaper ran a bold headline July 9, 1947: "RAAF Captures Flying Saucer on Ranch in Roswell Region."

The same day, a statement was released saying it was only a weather balloon.

"I guess they changed their mind," Haut told The Associated Press in 1997.

Haut said he never was told exactly where the flying disc reported in his news release was found nor did he, himself, ever see a UFO.

But he remained a believer."]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sky---I've visited some skeptic websites and they have distorted the facts so much that I don't believe much in what they are saying about the Roswell incident. In fact, they were unaware that Rancher, "Mac" Brazel was taken into custody by the military and they are still pushing the Air Force 1997 Roswell report that alien bodies people saw in 1947 were test dummies and accident victims of the 1950's.

Please find me one single account of alien bodies at Roswell that was published prior to 1978, when Daineken created the whole thing.

>>>>Please find me one single account of alien bodies at Roswell that was published prior to 1978, when Daineken created the whole thing.<<<<


Sky---When Frank Joyce, who interviewed "Mac" Brazel in July 1947, asked him about any aliens and Brazel's reply was:

"No, they weren't green."

I would like to add the following
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brig. Gen. Arthur E. Exon

Gen. Exon has been the highest ranking military officer to come out and say directly that Roswell was the crash of a spacecraft and that alien bodies were recovered.

http://www.af.mil/bios/bio_print.asp?bioID=5381&page=1


Alien Bodies

(Sandow)
["Exon spontaneously bringing up Roswell crash after being asked about rumors of little bodies at Wright-Patterson] "Yes, I have. In fact, I know people that were involved in photographing some of the residue from the New Mexico affair near Roswell."

[He was told about bodies by] "...people I have known who were involved with that."
(R&S)

"There was another location where ... apparently the main body of the spacecraft was ... where they did say there were bodies ... They were all found, apparently, outside the craft itself but were in fairly good condition. In other words, they weren't broken up a lot"
"That's my information [that the bodies went to Wright Field]. But one of them went to the mortuary outfit ... I think at that time it was in Denver. But the strongest information was that they were brought to Wright-Pat."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sky---Some of those skeptic websites also said that there was never any mention of the Roswel incident until the late 1970's, which is untrue but it goes to show that visiting skeptical websites in regards to the Roswell incident isn't good since they tend to pass on disinformation.

Yep, a long televised interview with Marcel confirms this fact, and Marcel admitted that the balloon theory had been dreamed up to de bunk the story. There is also the testimony of Police officer Zamorra, who witnessed the incident while on patrol in his police vehicle. He saw the object and followed it until the crash. I believe it is very well documented. But then again, who knows. I think keeping an open mind is the safe option.

Sky---Some of those skeptic websites also said that there was never any mention of the Roswel incident until the late 1970's, which is untrue but it goes to show that visiting skeptical websites in regards to the Roswell incident isn't good since they tend to pass on disinformation.
[/quote]

Thats what I've been trying to tell them. Solid research will show that indeed there was reports of bodies before 1978. If someone reads nothing but skeptic material then of course it will look like a hoax.

>>>>Thats what I've been trying to tell them. Solid research will show that indeed there was reports of bodies before 1978. If someone reads nothing but skeptic material then of course it will look like a hoax.<<<<

Sky---Those skeptical websites have always been short of facts and have also been known to deliberately distort those facts. They claim the reason the Air Force used a weather balloon to cover-up a downed Mogul balloon was because it was classified "Top Secret" which is untrue. Mogul balloon trains were not classified, just the program, so there was no reason for the military to use anything to cover-up any downed Mogul balloon and to make my point, check out this media story on the recovery of a downed Mogul balloon in Flatbush, New Jersey and then ask, where's the cover-up story for that downed Mogul balloon?

___________________________________________________________________________


From the New York Times, October 1, 1948:

["Balloon Staggers Down to Brooklyn Tavern, Hooks Itself to Roof
and Upsets Decorum

The Navy would like to get rid of a forty-foot balloon that
floated blithely over the rooftops of Flatbush yesterday causing
general public excitement and annoyance to the police before it
came to rest on top of a tavern at 1896 Nostrand Avenue,
Brooklyn.

The balloon is at Floyd Bennett Naval Air Station and the folks
there have no use for it.

The balloon first was seen pushing its way through the drizzle
at 10:30 A.M. at a height reported variously as between 500 and
2,000 feet. It was descending lazily and several citizens
called the police. Eventually it settled on the roof of the
one-story building housing the Newkirk Tavern.

Patrolman William Kearny of the Brooklyn Avenue Station was in
the vicinity, off-duty and minding his own business when he
heard the commotion and went out to investigate. When he saw
the plastic bag bulging over the side of the building he went up
to the roof to free it. The balloon clung tenaciously to its
perch. Patrolman Kearny yanked at it twice, the second time a
little too strongly. He lost his balance and toppled to the
street. He was hurt slightly and spent the rest of the
afternoon in bed at his home, 1363 Nostrand Avenue, Brooklyn.

A radio car arrived from the Snyder Avenue station and two
policemen managed to loosen the balloon, which they took to the
station house. Calls were made to the Weather Bureau and to Army
and Navy installations, but all disclaimed ownership. The
Physics Department at Princeton University, which has been
sending balloons up for experimental purposes, said it wasn't
their baby either because they had not sent a balloon aloft
since August."]
__________________________________________________________________________

Here's possible reasons why they never discussed what they saw until the 1980's.

Fear of riducle.
Threats made by military personel in 1947.
Nobody asked them about it until the 1980's!

Sky, once again, no fibbing.

No site says that nothing about Roswell was mentioned prior to the 1970's. Not a single one. Skeptics have no problem with an incident in Roswell, with a news report of a 'flying saucer', with any of the material that appeared at the time of the incident. Where the problem lies is in the whole mythology of the bodies, of a crash ditch in the ground, etc, that does not appear till the 70's.

Stop telling half the story.

To prove me wrong is extremely simple. All you have to do is post or source a single account of alien bodies published prior to the 1970's.

>>>>No site says that nothing about Roswell was mentioned prior to the 1970's. Not a single one. <<<<




Space.com
12/21/04 05:12 PM

“The Roswell incident laid "dormant" for over two decades until 1978 when nuclear physicist Stanton Friedman (now an acknowledged U.F.O. investigator) had a chance meeting with a TV station manager in Louisiana who suggested that the subject was worthy of investigation. By 1986 Friedman (and William Moore) had interviewed dozens of witnesses and published six papers. The interest of the public was aroused and the Roswell Incident has been at the forefront of Ufology ever since.”



“Research revealed that the "Roswell Incident" was not even considered a UFO event until the 1978-1980 time frame.”

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/roswairf.html



After its correct identification as weather equipment, the Roswell event drew no attention for decades. Klass details how both leading UFO groups (NICAP and APRO) did not even mention Roswell in their lists of "most important UFO cases" submitted for the Condon Report in 1966.

http://www.csicop.org/si/9805/roswell-coverup.html



What crashed at Roswell in 1947?

“The episode was mostly forgotten until 1970 when Jesse Marcel, the major involved with the recovery of the crash, announced that the military's claim that the object was a weather balloon was a lie. Since the announcement, Marcel and dozens of others have maintained that the crashed vehicle was not a weather balloon, that actual alien bodies were recovered, and that they were all threatened into silence.”

http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topic...well/index.html


Sky---The radio station was threatened and in July 1947, Frank Joyce noted that he asked “Mac” Brazel about alien bodies. Since a full blown military cover-up was in effect, which was evident after the weather balloon cover-up began, you will not likely to see Frank Joyce’s interview on “Mac” Brazel in the newspapers where he mentioned the alien bodies. Add to the fact that important documents relating to the Roswell incident were destroyed without authorization.



GAO Roswell Report


“The 20 page report is the result of constituent information requests to Congressman Schiff and the difficulty he had getting answers from the Department of Defense in the now 48-year-old controversy. Schiff said important documents, which may have shed more light on what happened at Roswell, are missing. "The GAO report states that the outgoing messages from Roswell Army Air Field (RAAF) for this period of time were destroyed without proper authority. Schiff pointed out that these messages would have shown how military officials in Roswell were explaining to their superiors exactly what happened. "It is my understanding that these outgoing messages were permanent records, which should never have been destroyed. The GAO could not identify who destroyed the messages, or why." But Schiff pointed out that the GAO estimates that the messages were destroyed over 40 years ago, making further inquiry about their destruction impractical.”


Sky---The documents relating to the specifics of what happened at Roswell were destroyed with without proper authorization. In other words, someone didn't want the public to know what really happened at Roswell and it couldn't have been because of a Mogul balloon train either.

Later, the commanding general at Wright-Patterson AFB, confirmed that alien bodies and their spacecrafts were brought to his base for examinations.

Like I said, not a single account denies that something happened at Roswell prior to the 1970's. What you will not find prior to the 1970's, however, is an account of bodies, or of a crash ditch in the ground, or any of that other mythology that we know of today.

Like I said, all I need is an account of bodies that was published prior to the 1970's. Not an account of people sayig it happened back then. Not an article that says it remembered it from back them. All I need is something that was actually published talking about bodies from back in the day. Not a reference to something that was published or said, but the actual, honest to goodness, material that was published or said.

Good luck with that. I'm sure you have a lot of sources claiming that bodies were found at the site. But I'll bet not a single one of your sources appeared prior to the 1970's.

The development of the UFO myth 1947-1993

Adapted from Watch the Skies,

The bodies were not found at the first crash site but at the second site, which was covered up. The Air Force has now admitted that people did in fact see something along the line of bodies in its 1997 report and Mogul balloons in the 1940's didn't carry passengers from the 1950's. So now, in its own 1997 Roswell report, the Air Force has added "bodies" to the mix.

What are those skeptical websites saying in that regard?

Pretty much what I said before. Daineken, thirty years after the incident, decided to tie in a completely seperate incident in a different place. That's why bodies don't appear in the original reports; because the bodies where not a part of the mythos until they were put in there from a seperate source three decades later.

[M) reco VERY Was ROSWELl Head oIc giveN AS THE
RECO ---- OPERATION WITH ROSWELL DISK 074 MJ--AT THE
RECO ......OPERATION ........................................................AT THE
(DR) recovery operations WEre found NEAR site two, at one ]

[..............ext 4*S EXp VIctIMS of THE WRecK and CONVAy ON TO THE
- --- ..........THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK YOU FORWARDED TO THE
JULY 4TH THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK YOU FORWARDED TO THE
(DR) todaY All THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK YOU FORWARDED TO THE..."]


Sky---That pretty much sums it up as to why the Air Force now admits that bodies were seen. The Air Force could have kept quiet on bodies but the Air Force was forced to respond because of what was being uncovered regarding the Roswell incident.

The U.S. Army has now admitted to the existence of its "Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit" (IPU). The initial mission of the U.S. Army's "IPU" was for the recovery ET space vehicles and "Project Moon Dust" and "Operation Blue Fly" were used to facilitate its mission on recovering those space vehicles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Phenomenon_Unit


And, let's not forget these important folks.



BRIGADIER GENERAL STEVEN LOVEKIN

"This piece of an extraterrestrial craft was a grayish foil-like material….it had been taken from one of the ET craft that had crashed in New Mexico….. it had been taken from a box of materials that the military was working on…."




BRIGADIER GENERAL ARTHUR EXON

R&S2) "We heard the material was coming to Wright Field. [Testing was done in the various labs.] Everything from chemical analysis, stress tests, compression tests, flexing. It was brought into our material evaluation labs. I don't know how it arrived, but the boys who tested it said it was very unusual." A couple of guys thought it might be Russian, but the overall consensus was that the pieces were from space...Roswell was the recovery of a craft from space."




EDGAR MITCHELL - a trained scientist and U.S. astronaut maintains that the Roswell incident was and is being "covered-up" by the U.S. Government:

" Make no mistake - Roswell happened, I've seen secret files which show the government knew about it - but decided not to tell the public". (statement made in 1999)


Sky---So as the years go on, we are finding more and more about what really happened at Roswell in 1947 despite the fact the military destroyed many important documents relating to Roswell in order to hide the truth on what took place there in July 1947.

This was the original post to start this thread, there is another thread to discuss the ins and outs of what really happened. If that is what you wish to discuss, please do so here.