Mr.David Icke as far as Iv'e seen has had some of the most out-there conspiricy theories i've ever read. The one posted below; (credit to www.thesupernaturalworld.com) I think is one of them.

"Mr. Icke, a former national spokesman for Britain’s radical Green Party, is a prolific author, whose books, videos and articles propagate a bizarre revisionist history of ancient civilizations, religions, world events, dynasties and famous people. In Mr. Icke’s worldview, the reptilian Anunnaki are shape-shifters who have taken on human form and occupy the top positions of power in politics, business, finance and religion worldwide. Henry Kissinger, David Rockefeller, Bill and Hillary Clinton, George Bush, Queen Elizabeth, Mikhail Gorbachev and many other current world notables are actually intergalactic reptilians disguised as human beings, says Icke. And so it has been throughout history, in the higher circles of power, going back to pre-Babylonian times. According to Icke, the Anunnaki invented the world religions, including Christianity; Jesus is a myth and the Bible is an Anunnaki fairy tale concocted to keep humans in a mental prison. World history, says Icke, is the record of one long conspiracy, in which the Anunnaki have ruled for millennia through pharaohs, kings, emperors, Christianity, the Illuminati, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderberg Group."


I'm not sure whether this has been made in another forum, but i'm just looking for some opinions on this guy. Anone out there actually beleive him? Anyone out there think his ideas are a little too "Out-There?"

Mr. Icke has very little support on this forum, you'll find.

Personally I think David Icke is an extremely intelligent guy. He does his research and is a very engaging speaker, with many valid points. He lays bare a lot about the way society is today. Some theories are totally out there and I suspend my judgement on them. E.g: reptilians etc. I can say that from the videos of his I have seen and the books I have read, everything he says is possible. There is no way of disproving his theories as yet, so as I say suspend judgement.

I'm actually going to see one of his lectures later this year.

What is money? Spend some time on the history of money in the Western World. I'd suggest you pull out the yellow pages and find some used book stores in your local area. Using Google to start only leads you to nut bags like Icke, Alex Jones, and others who like simple but fantastic answers that play on your fears.

I think his ideas are very interesting and I agree that he's bright and all. But the one thing that irks me is that he used the National Enquirer as a source. Maybe there was a valid reason. Maybe...

I remember someone posting about him quoting the National Enquirer in one of his books and I said then, that it was one of almost 100 references and it referred to only one murder case. Whether the National Enquirer prints false news about murder cases I am not sure, but I personally, wouldn't let that cloud my opinion of his work.

Sorry but I just can't take David Icke seriously, what he says is just so damn ridiculous.

I thought the same thing for about 12 years. I just ignored his stuff thinking he was a whacko, becasue I remember seeing him on that Wogan talk show when I was a kid. All the stories about him foccussed on his most unconventional theories and made it seem like he was nuts. It wasn't until about a year and a half ago that I thought about downloading some of his stuff. I watched 'Secrets of the Matrix' and my opinion of him totally changed. He talks a lot of sense.

The Wogan interview is a classic
My friend own a couple of his books (I think Secrets of the Matrix is one of them or something like that) and he has let me have a flick through them. In my opinion he is trying to dress up utter nonsense as fact, he does write it convincingly enough however I just can't bring myself to believe most of his rubbish.
I mean he claimed to be the Messiah on live TV

That Wogan interview is what pushed him out of the spotlight. He didn't actually say he was the messiah. What he meant was, we are all, Sons and Daughters of God. We are all aspects of the same Source. This ties in with things I have been coming to believe from various other metaphysical research (eg: reincarnation, astral projection, near-death-experiences, entheogens, energy healing, quantum physics, etc etc).

'Secrets of The Matrix' is a 6 1/2 hour(!) talk he done in London. I think he is a better speaker than a writer. Children of the Matrix is the book you're thinking of.

I found that watching him speak helped me get my head round the concepts he talks about before reading any of the books.

Just found Secrets of the Matrix on Google vids!
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=davi...=Mozilla-search

It took me weeks to watch all of this. I watched a bit here, a bit there, carrying on from where I left off each time. If you want to make sense of his theories you could watch this. I reckon everyone should hear what David Icke has to say.

My signature quotes are all actually from him.

He got another chance to go on Wogan this year, as well. Check it out.

But before he said we all we are the sons and daughters of god he said: I am the son of god. He was backtracking.
Yeah sorry it was "Children of the Matrix" I was reading, not secrets. Thanks for posting the video but I'm not sure if I'm gonna watch it (mainly because I really don't have enough time) but even if I do I doubt it would change my mind about him.
If David Icke really believes half the stuff he's saying then needs help, but personally I think he's just out to make money. Also he doesn't seem to be able to make up his mind over which conspiricy is true, the world is being run by either the illuminati, bipedal lizards, or satanists depending on which one of his books you read.

He said 'I am a son of the Godhead', but, hey.


He believes they are all one and the same.

A secret society of shape-shifting bipedal satanist lizards run the world and monitor everything we do then.

I know. Whoa! Watch 'Secrets of the Matrix'. Like I said I watched it over a long time period. He leaves that stuff till the end. Til you can see where he's coming from. I still suspend judgement as I haven't seen any lizard people with my own eyes. I cannot however, discount the possibility of their existence.

I suppose I'll try to watch the video bit by bit, but it won't change my mind I can assure you it will just give me an insight into how wacko David Icke is or how gullible he thinks people are.

And wouldn't it be amazing if it was true. The probability of this being objective reality is dependant solely upon personal experience.
I would not be so quick to rule out the possibility of this being true.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...dpost&p=1112834

I swear to God people will believe anything on these forums.

Funny

Lol

Erm Red Eye I admited that to being not true and explained it away myself as i had done years ago. read the whole topic moron. Oh and i'm a sceptic so there. you merely prove my point.

Oh and rapid if you were laughing at him for not reading the whole topic i agree with you.

I know loonies, and David Icke is definitely one of them...

Yeah! exactly Pixie!

Well, at least you had the decency to own up; but your credibility is a bit low in my book for even attempting to fool people. Makes you more cynical than skeptical.

Stop with the name calling, that is not acceptable here and will end in warnings and worse. You are new here and I am giving you a friendly warning, please pay attention to it.

sorry

dude your trying to tell me that snake men are taking over our government. and how does that bump down my credibility . despite our disagreement youve made some great posts. Oh and i wasnt trying to fool people ok.

that foo comment i made in another topic was not meant to be taken seriously as an insult. just a fun lil comment. I didnt mean to stray off topic just wanted clear that up ok.

I rule it out because there is no evidence except the ramblings of deluded or manipulative people. Also it makes no sense whatsoever and the other thread you linked does nothing more than make me worry about how much people are willing to believe something when there is not a shred of real proof.

yeah i agree.

Ok fair enough.
I just thought redeyejedi made some good points about David icke.

David icke has got an annoying habit of presenting his speculations as fact.
However, I do think some of his observations are valid and quite intelligent.
Shock horror but I did say ‘some’ not all.
He has been misrepresented in the press.
He’s not a cult leader or anything sinister like that and doesn’t advocate the use of violence, so what harm can he do? None, in my book.
All he can do is just make you think.

I used to think David Icke was crazy. I used to be skeptical; still am I suppose but I’m not skeptical about the aliens being here.

Lets just say for arguments sake you knew the aliens are real and use a serpent as their symbol. Shocking huh, how did this happen? Oh and you can’t prove this to anyone else. well, we all know life’s a b***h

Anyway, let’s also say you suspect the illuminati actually do exist. I don’t know about controlling the world but definitely a small group of very rich and powerful men who are very influential.
Another assumption but if contact has been made, they’re going to be the ones dealing with the aliens; especially in the western world.

So Illuminati and aliens; Put the two together, and I’m in David Ickes territory.
And to think, I used to be a science based skeptic.
Objective reality may not be what you think it is, I suspect part of you always knew that anyway.
Be open-minded, not too much that your brains fall out. Be skeptical but not too much you become ignorant. Be an open-minded skeptic.

i always try.

This was posted on the Signs of the Times forum yesterday:

My Webpage

I've always liked Icke-there is something truly poetically apt about representing the English royals as shapeshifting reptiles even if it isn't strictly speaking factual- though I find a lot of what he has to say sheer nonsense. But at least he brings some legitimate knowledge to folk who might not otherwise have any framework to understand what is going on. But that disnfo factor......

Anyway here's an article i found a couple of nights ago online which may explain what's happened.

One question re Wilder et al would have to be "Well, now that you "escaped" the Illuminati and reformed, as you say, why haven't you turned yourself in to the proper authorities and confessed to assisting in the murder of innocents?"

I've read Redfield and had the strange impression there's a bunch of New Age authors who get together in a cabin in the woods, have a few brewskis and chuckle as they turn out a new best seller.


David Icke, Arizona Wilder and the Biggest Secret
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Icke, Arizona Wilder and the Biggest Secret
By Ivan Fraser

Original Article found at:My Webpage This link doesn't seem to work at the moment tho. Emphases, Heavenbender

The following is a short summary of a minor investigation into aspects of David Icke's latest book and his star witnesses Arizona Wilder and Credo Mutwa. Wilder claims to have been a mind controlled slave who performed Satanic rituals for the Illuminati at which she witnessed many famous people including the Queen Mother, shapeshift physically from a human to a lizard and consume sacrificial victims. She claims that since her programming broke down she has been able to reveal this information to the wider public.

My own role in the Biggest Secret saga was that I was asked by David to help him check spelling and offer any further information to his initial draft of the book. It was following my input that David was introduced to Arizona and heard her revelations, which subsequently became a focal point within the book and used as 'evidence' to support various themes outlined therein.

Having discussed my concerns with David's wife and having sent David e-mails outlining my concerns over errors in his book and a feeling I have that he has been set up with misinformation and been the target of psychic manipulation, over a period from before publication to very recently (September 1999), and as yet having absolutely no feedback from David about any of the major concerns, I decided to publish my findings at the David Icke website forum.

Consequently, I was banned from attending that forum by David Icke.

I wish it to be known that I bear David Icke no malice over this affair and the reason for publishing this information is to seek clarification and also offer information of which most may not be aware. My fears may be unfounded, but I feel that after reading this, you may see they are justified. And if my fears have solid foundation, these issues need urgent clarification, both for the sake of David Icke and his readers.

My suspicions about Arizona Wilder (AW) first manifested the first time I heard of her. Something in me said, 'something isn't right here'. A familiar feeling which usually turns out to be trustworthy, as anyone who has read Lifting The Veil knows.

She was not mentioned at all in the draft copy of The Biggest Secret (TBS) which I had read. David had not met her yet. When the book was released people started ringing me with questions like, 'is it true about the reptiles', and 'is this stuff about the royal family true'. At which time I replied that I thought it was, based on the fact that the version I had read stated only the theory of the reptilians and that certain of the Royals were involved in Satanic rituals.

Soon I heard about Arizona Wilder. I reviewed the book again, this time the printed version, and asked Linda Icke (the British manager of Bridge of Love) to send a copy of the video from which AW's testimony was taken. I was by this time very dubious about AW's statements. Her statements had already overshadowed those of Christine Fitzgerald, Princess Diana's healer and confidante, which were prominent in the version I read and which were not so sensational. However, Fitzgerald's account may have been a 'taster' for what was to come, to ease the way for the far more incredible information which Wilder had to impart.

David stated that he saw his encounter with AW as an amazing synchronicity which endorsed his work in his latest book. How could she have known all of this stuff which tallied so exactly with TBS? Well, I believe I am not as naïve as David, and I know exactly how she could have known. He was passing copies of the book via post to me and others for editing. It was on computer. Both are simple to access by Intelligence people. We had also spoken over the phone about the reptilian issue. In fact I am shocked that David does not see this as a possibility himself.

This brings I another character who is pivotal to the entire Biggest Secret thesis. It was a contact of David's named Brian Desborough who introduced Arizona to David. Brian is mentioned as a source for a great deal of information in the book, having supplied most of the material upon which David based his idea that Martians came to Earth and founded the Aryan race which the reptilians used as a vehicle to overtake the planet. Brian is also the source of much of the information David had compiled on the Babylonian world, its myths and how they fed into the
sinister secret societies.

It was Brian Desborough, a scientist and researcher who had worked for several aerospace companies, who was also looking at the draft copy of the Biggest Secret at the same time as myself; i.e. before David met Arizona Wilder. Therefore the fact that Brian Desborough may be responsible for fundamentally leading the direction of David's research, if not planting much of the basis of the book in David's mind, is obvious. But then to be the same person responsible for giving him a so-called eye-witness to testify to the verity of that information is highly suspicious. Brian also writes articles on mind control and seems very knowledgeable on the subject. Is it possible that he could be directly involved in some way that we are not being told about? Cathy O'Brien testifies to having been taken to military aerospace locations and NASA bases for trauma-based programming.

David met AW and interviewed her for about 2 hours. Some of the questions were quite leading, but her testimony revealed an awful lot if you know what you are looking for. She did indeed endorse a great deal of David's own theses; that is other people's theses (again including many of Desborough's) which David has agreed with. So closely, in fact, you would almost think she had already read the book - or had been given the information beforehand! Or, considering that she claims to be an ex-mind controlled slave, could it be she was pre-programmed? Testimony from Mark Philips and Cathy O'Brien as to how arduous it is to deprogram a CIA slave makes me very suspicious that AW could be considered reliable. She claims that since her programmer died, the programming broke down. I don't believe this can be accepted as such, and external experts would have to be brought in to convince me that if she was controlled to the highest level, that she could be so deprogrammed now as to be considered reliable.

And don't forget how much influence her testimony had to the final version of David's book. It was her and only her who provided all the information about physically shapeshifting royalty, Pindar, the Belgian blood rituals which were allegedly attended by everyone from Laurence Gardner (!!??) to the Queen Mother!

Before I watched the video I dowsed the box with a pendulum and asked questions. I don't usually use dowsing, but considered it may be useful to evaluate this case from as many angles as I could because if I was correct in my gut feeling then I had stumbled upon some very significant realisations. The basic questions were:

Was she going to be telling me the truth? Yes. Wow! I hadn't expected that.

Was she also going to be telling lies? Yes. Ah!

As I thought she was a Multiple Personality, I assumed that she had been set up. So I asked, 'Is she going to deliberately misinform David?' Yes. This made me curious because I thought she would be doing it from programming.

I always like to ask questions I know the answers of now and then to check whether I am interpreting the pendulum correctly.

So I asked a question I was sure of the answer to: 'Is she a programmed multiple?' No. That was absolutely the last thing I expected. I couldn't see how she could be lying to deliberately misinform and not been a set-up multiple stooge.

'Then she isn't a multiple?' Yes.

'So has she ever been programmed as a multiple?' No.

'She is going to lie deliberately in full awareness?' Yes.

Now that was only an initial test and I don't put too much store in my abilities as a dowser. But I tell you my line of enquiry so that you know.

So I watched the video in order to get the full picture.

As I said, her testimony tallied so well with David's that I can see how he was so impressed. He has always stated that he works on cross-referencing testimonies and 'synchronicities' as proof. Well, this time I think the Intelligence people took advantage of that one!

More revealing, however, about AW's 'evidence' was that she demonised the ancient archetypes and occult images throughout. Osiris, Isis, Druids, even Harvest Festival. My own research tells me that there is a very positive side to these things. In fact these things are exactly what the Bible was written to obscure. AW's testimony was overtly Judeo-Christian in its level of gross and blanket demonisation of the occult. Something which I had warned David about doing when I read his draft. Something which he promised to amend for the final version.

But of course, that was before he met AW. And as a consequence of her testimony, it seems, David decided not to balance out his demonisation, but instead increased it. If I was going to set David up to make that mistake, that's exactly how I would have done it!

Then came some obvious bloopers. Having claimed to have been a multiple, she also states she forgets certain names of people. Multiples have photographic memory and perfect recall (see Cathy O'Brien's testimonies). This memory lapse does not happen in recovered multiples.

Her facts were either regularly wrong, or so full of spin that she was hardly credible. Other information is impossible for anyone to verify, conveniently.

I checked with 2 occultists about her description of the demon raising ritual and both stated she had it wrong. Strange for a top level Satanist!

Then she targeted Sitchin and Gardner and said they take part in blood rituals with the Royals where shapeshifting happens. Considering Gardner's books are revealing profound insights into the ancient knowledge, I am not surprised they wanted him demonised. I personally do not believe this testimony. I do however, think that Sitchin has been less than honest in his research, but again, the statement that he takes part in murderous rituals is more than I will accept without some pretty firm proof. But proof is offered nowhere in relation to AW's testimony.

She states the royal lizards change back to lizards when asleep. Considering how many of them were educated in schools where they also lived amongst hundreds of others in dorms, and how many of them were in the armed forces, you would think someone would have noticed this little thing!

She states that the royal lizards can't stay in human form at the scent of blood and transform and go crazy, ripping into their victims. And in all those years nobody has ever noticed this when they have cut themselves, been around blood, menstruating women etc. Considering they are so public, there is no way they have never been in the vicinity of blood. No signs there though either.

I thought, 'this is just too ridiculous for words. David how the hell are you allowing this nonsense to influence you?'

She regularly inverts important ideas. The ancient Egyptians were anointed with the fat of the dragon - the sacred crocodile. AW states that the royal lizards anoint themselves with the fat of humans. Head lizard is Pindar. How similar is Pindar to ben Pandir, the Talmudic name for Jesus? Reversal at a deep archetypal and psychological level? I think so. And there are more examples too numerous to go into. I think you get the point.

Then strange things started happening as I watched the video. I kept getting psychic impressions of other people overlaid on her face. The first, Ingrid Pitt, whom I associate with Countess Bathory as she played her in the film Countess Dracula. Bathory is reputed to have been kept young by bathing in the blood of virgins.

Then, of all people, Jimmy Carter. I immediately recall David's testimony in 'And The Truth Shall Set You Free', where he describes being possessed by Carter's energy from which he needed healing later. Was that a hint that David had been possessed again?

Then Sigourney Weaver. I had been informed by a seer once that she is a predator vehicle, like many others in the Hollywood scene. That is, she is possessed by the reptoid/Luciferic consciousness. I cannot claim to know that to be true, but it did seem to fit very neatly with the scenario I was experiencing.

Then a face I couldn't put a name to at first. I didn't know where I had seen her. Then later I realised, it was the face of the head alien reptile in the television series V, called Diana. A reptile in human skin who was conning the world to believe that the reptile aliens were on their side.

Was my higher self telling me something here or what?! Was AW a predator vehicle too, and not a multiple at all, like the dowsing suggested?

Again, I wanted more proof.

As I had been a nurse for 9 years, I am quite aware of body language and communication. What I was seeing with AW was someone who was far too inexpressive with her hands and expressions. She seemed to be deliberately avoiding any kind of body language in case she gave the game away.

I also know a genuine multiple who HAS performed satanic ritual called Patti and whom I had introduced David to years ago, setting him off on the track of this whole Satanic thing. He refers to her in his books 'I Am Me, I Am Free' and 'The Biggest Secret' as 'a contact from Darlington'. I know this woman well and am accustomed to her body language and how she flips between personalities and how she displays quite notable body language if you know what you are looking for. I also have interviewed her priest (an exorcist) and her ex-Harley Street therapist and discussed this subject at length. And I have spoken to Cathy O'Brien and Mark Philips about this, albeit briefly.

To me, AW was not displaying what I expected in terms of body language. Everything I saw told me she was hiding something.

So I contacted the aforementioned expert; a professional therapist, specialising in multiples and victims of abuse, including those from government level paedophile circles. I had introduced her to David a couple of years ago and he mentions her in TBS. She looked at the video and agreed with my analysis. AW was not a multiple, nor seems to have ever been one. Her body language did not reveal this and suggested that she was deliberately lying and trying to keep from revealing this. She also has grave concerns about David, his health, his reptilian thesis, and that he may be under a great deal of pressure and psychic attack from those trying to pervert his work. She agreed that what I suspected was the more likely case - AW is a deliberate set up and her testimony is absolutely not to be trusted.

I also emailed Cathy O'Brien and Mark Philips for a comment from them, but got no response. I later heard from another contact that they were avoiding speaking out about David's latest book.

I later got calls from some very concerned people telling me that AW tripped their inner warning bells so much that they couldn't accept her testimony and for that reason were very dubious about the book.

Others contacted me to say they were seeing negative energies around David.

If AW is a Satanist and has the kind of power she claims - and she would have to be one of the world's most powerful magicians to work for the global elite in their highest rituals - then David is in extreme danger of being infected by her demonic magic if he spends any time with her. If I am wrong, and she is a multiple, but has not recovered, she may be working on David without either his or her knowledge.

She also claims to be part of a church involved in satanic ritual. But she also claims to be out of it. But she also knows enough to warn people about forthcoming rituals. Is she in, or is she out? Who can tell?

How is she still around considering what she is revealing?

How did they let her programming slip?

How come she was performing rituals with the likes of Tony Blair (that means it must be very recent) at a time when her programming was coming apart? I have seen the chaos Patti goes through as she has been regaining coherence over the years. And this is the woman we are expected was performing the highest level rituals in the world? Give me a break!

So I phoned Linda Icke. I told her of my concerns. As well as my concerns over David's historical inaccuracies, lack of occult understanding, and flaws in his reptilian thesis. I said I was concerned that he had stated on radio that he was unusually drained of energy and had been ill for a while. She agreed I may be right and said that David has to face his own mistakes and defend himself in his own way.

Amazingly, when I told her what had transpired over the video and what I had looked into, she told me that David doesn't actually trust AW!!!! 'He's the first to say "you can't trust her,"' she said!!!

So why is he selling a 2-hour interview with the woman?!

Why is he accepting her testimony at all?

Why has he refashioned so much of his work around her claims?

If it hadn't been for her, the text would be far less sensational, less risible and have a far more balanced analysis of the occult.

This single woman has so overshadowed the real information in TBS that I no longer am able to trust a lot of it simply on David's say so. I no longer trust David's previously excellent antenna for getting to the truth.

Has Wilder also done something to David to lower his guard and turn him around? He certainly does not seem to me to be the same man he was. And that is what I am hearing time and time again from other people too.

I then contacted two people whom I know and trust who I consider to be as knowledgeable about the psychic aspects as I believe anybody could be. They both said the video was total nonsense. One (a well known author and Remote Viewing and mind control expert) agreed with my analysis 100%, that she was part of an Intelligence set up.

I showed Patti. She called the video, 'A piece of $#@%*.' But granted, she may not be considered the ideal judge.

I had reports of people hosting David's lectures who were so disturbed by the incredibility of the video that they stated that if it were not for the fact that it was David supporting it, they would never have sold it.

Then consider the Illuminati ritual post on the website, which I refer to in my chapter The Predators (Truth Campaign magazine 14). AW and David warn people about key dates and asked them to send love and light to the reptiles. As I pointed out in the article, this only feeds the problem as they are feeding an illusion - a psychotronic virus. Moreover, on one of the dates mentioned, I attended, but did not partake in, a mass channelling meditation, which was actually a guided meditation which opened the participating crowd up to predator possession.

I feel compelled to see this as further confirmation that the entire AW scenario is part of a wider conspiracy to jointly misinform, psychically attack and control the audience!

Who is influencing David Icke and why? The results of following the book, and his advice certainly seem sinister.

Then we had the solar eclipse, another blood ritual date according to AW. David went to the Great Pyramid in Egypt on that date for the eclipse and made all kinds of superficial comments about what seemed to be going on there. He said people were prevented from going in, that the attendees may be using underground tunnels to get in to do their blood rituals etc. No proof. And everything was adequately explained by Amargi Hiller, an independent journalist who works closely investigating the Giza site, in a message which was posted on David's Forum.

But what did David do?

On this very powerful day, he had people all over the world sending thought energy based upon the most horrific images of blood-spattered tombs and child sacrifice, DIRECTED AT PERHAPS THE MOST POWERFUL ENERGY POINT IN THE WORLD! Did they really need to do a blood ritual with that kind of energy focussed on it? Is this another way that David has been set up to actually do the very job he is trying to expose?

I refer you to my chapter on the predators to see how that may fit into the Illuminati agenda.

Soon after this, David re-emerged from a trip to Africa announcing a new video called The Reptilian Agenda, which is an interview with a Zulu shaman called Credo Mutwa, who is confirming the existence of shapeshifting reptilians.

Credo recounts various ancient Zulu myths about the reptilian race which manipulates mankind, which are taken literally by himself and Icke and seen as remarkable confirmation of the reptile/human-race theory; although Credo's version is that the race actually originated on Earth, left it and returned. Furthermore, the central reptile/Aryan race thesis is fundamentally challenged by Mutwa's assertion that the black leaders of his country, and their bloodlines are from the reptilian race also.

Mutwa also speaks about personal encounters with 'grey' aliens, which he states are servants of the reptilians. He recounts eating the 'grey, rather dry' skin of the greys - which caused an hallucinogenic experience very reminiscent of LSD or similar drug experiences as well as a rash and intense itching. This, again, parallels MKULTRA mind control experiments/implantation experiences described by military abductees. Mutwa elsewhere, rather contradictorily, states elsewhere that 'greys' are actually reptilians with an artificial 'skin'. This contradiction is not challenged by Icke.

Interestingly, this man claims to have been abducted 40 years ago by greys, had something stuffed up his nose into his head etc. In an interview with The Spectrum Newspaper, Mutwa recalls walking down the street one day when a man approached him and quizzed him about knowing him from somewhere, and he recalled a memory about being in the underground facility where he was taken following his abduction, where he was experimented on by 'greys' in ways remarkably consistent with the classic MILAB (Military Abduction) scenario.

Mutwa states in the interview that this exact same thing has happened to many of his people.

The link with Montauk is also interesting. One engineer working on the 'Montauk Project', Preston Nichols, talks of having worked in the project - which included abductions for mind control. He says he remembers working in underground bases where greys and a reptilian creature also were. He recovered the memory of this after being confronted in the street by a man quizzing him on having seen him somewhere before.

This parallel, almost identical, scenario seems to be too coincidental. I think the greys and reptoid were implants in the vein described by Helmut Lammer in his book MILABS. Both tales have all the hallmarks of mind control. Mutwa is therefore, for my money, not a credible witness for David Icke.

David sees Mutwa as 'proof' of his thesis in his latest book, and since slightly altered aspects of his views to accommodate Mutwa's new information. Again, there is severe doubt cast on yet another of David's main sources of information on the reptilian issue.

However, the alien abduction issue aside, Mutwa seems a very genuine and sincere man, bravely determined to tell the world about what he feels is the plight of his people and their dreadful manipulation by the Illuminati forces. His interview with Spectrum can be read on Icke's website.

Both Mutwa and Wilder may be consciously absolutely genuine in recounting their experiences according to their memories. But knowing what we do about the long history of Illuminati/intelligence/military abduction and false memory implantation, mind-control etc., for propaganda, subversion and discrediting of witnesses purposes, I believe we need to be extremely careful before buying into what amount to little more than two circumstantial stories that offer next to no proof, given what we know of their backgrounds. One is a self-admitted Illuminati agent, and the other a self-admitted 'alien abductee'.

I ask you to consider this. Ask you self who benefits from you buying into Wilder's and Credo Mutwa's stories? Then consider what David says himself: 'JUST A COINCIDENCE, NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!'

It's entirely up to you. I am just giving this from my viewpoint.

I may be wrong. If I am, I apologise unreservedly for casting aspersions on those who may be genuine. But I think there are enough doubts to warrant further explanation from someone at Bridge of Love. Because if Wilder's and Desborough's claims in The Biggest Secret are essentially true, then it needs to be acted upon as a matter of urgency. But the evidence needs to be as accurate and enforceable as possible. At present I don't believe that a large amount of the so-called 'evidence' is any more than highly speculative, inaccurate and suspicious.

Does anybody have any more information to add to this?

Do David or Brian Desborough have any information to give us to show us we can trust Wilder? Is there anything David could tell us about Brian Desborough's background to allay any doubts we may have about his integrity, considering his massive influence in the content and direction of The Biggest Secret?

Does anybody have any direct proof of any of the wild claims being made? For example, if Mutwa has captured greys and eaten them, then are there any remains, photographs or corroborating witnesses to present? For, until some actual evidence of this story appears, all we have is a very good draft of a science fiction novel that still needs careful work to iron out the inconsistencies in the plot.

I wonder how many of the loopholes in the story will be closed as the thesis is conveniently ironed out over time, so that it serves as the 'master-theory' of conspiracy theories? How many remarkable witnesses will appear who have more pieces of the jigsaw as David strives to prove that his theory is really the Biggest Secret?

One historical inconsistency of David's book has been closed by Mutwa, as he tells of how the reptilians ordered that no direct image of their real appearance was to be depicted by anyone, otherwise that would mean instant death. This conveniently closes a loophole which David missed in his book, that despite claims by him to the contrary, there are actually very few depictions of reptilian gods in ancient sources. Of course we now know why. Instead, we are told, people depicted them in code, using various ciphers such as fish scaled creatures instead of reptilian scales etc.

But oddly, in an interview with Jeff Rense on his Sightings radio show on 14 October 1999, Mutwa claimed that the figure of Darth Maul - the alien 'baddie' in the latest Star Wars movie - is an absolute dead ringer for one of these 'gods', right down to the colour. As yet, I have not heard of the mass demise of George Lucas or the Star Wars makeup department and design team. Like the above example of the grey flesh vs. artificial skin contradiction, such inconsistencies go unchallenged by Icke and, it seems, by most of his audience. David has an excellent track record of bringing hard to get information into the wider public arena. He has worked extremely hard and endured a great deal of ridicule for courageously speaking out and standing up for what he believes in. It would be 'The Biggest Shame', if his efforts and work were to be overtaken and used by the very forces he seeks to expose.

From The Truth Campaign issue 15

www.vegan.swinternet.co.uk/mainpages/ma … frame.html

Ivan Fraser

Very cool bender! That's the kind of stuff I was hoping for on this thread! Thanks for the input so far guys!

I feel as you do red eye jedi...David Icke is an intelligent person who speaks about world conspiracies and whose central message is love and truth...whatever he personally believes about ancient races and "aliens" is of no importance to me as much as his central message.

The time has come - I'm going to see David Icke in London today .

Will report back ater the 6 1/2 hour talk, 'Freedom or Fascism - Time to Choose' is over!!!

Synchronicity in action you posted this post at exactly 911 am lol
Enjoy your day;

1. David Icke is completely nuts.

or

2. He saw a way to make himself rich by capitalizing on all the crazy people in the world. Selling to crazy people could make him alot of money.

We know what you think, but that is an uninformed opinion.

It was very good by the way. He focussed more on the War on Terror and the New World Order/Illuminati and what people can do about it. No talk of reptilians, as time was short. Seems he is trying to get information out about the pressing dangers we face right now as opposed to things most people will be hard pressed to accept.

Well to me it sounds like he is trying to point his "theories" in a direction more relevant to people today in an attempt to give them more impact.

The thing I like about David Icke, is that, as he says, he just goes where the information takes him. He doesn't research with a predetermined outcome in mind, and then pull out the things that would support and ignore that which doesn't. That's what religious people do. he is going for pure truth.
But, the most important of his subject matter, what i think of as the top layer, is the idea of infinite conciousness etc. And the great thing is, I'd half worked it out/read similar things before I'd heard of him. And since i read 'Infinite love is the only truth...' i've come across much information which just agrees with it. Some through synchronity, some through actively looking for it.
But seeing his talks, reading his books, applying salt where neccesary, i must say- he talks more logically, reasons more reasonably, and thinks more rationally than anyone i've seen 'in power'. I.E people that make important decisions that affect millions of lives based on ignorance and closed mindedness. It almost makes me mad, but nothing really matters because we are all one after all...

You say it is uniformed because I don't agree with you. I say you are not informed and want to be sour puss.

I agree. The reason the icke can sound so insane at times is the vast nature of his ideas. Hard for most people to swallow unless you can juxtapose the underlying ideas to create a broader picture.

Tell me how giant shape shifting lizards fit in with the war on terror?

It's a long story.

You're kidding! he actually tried to tie it in!?!

Simple, The lizards supposedly need fear to live off or to control us. So by creating wars large amounts of fear is produced.
lol
Btw I not saying I believe this but I think David icke's theory or suggestion the aliens are already in control, is very interesting.

I THINK DAVID ICKE IS A RAVING LUNITIC WHO SHOULD BE LOCKED UP FOR EVER1 SAFTEY.
HE ALSO SAID THAT HE IS A PROPHET WHO GOD SPEAKS TO DIRECTLY WHO SAID TOLD HIM THAT ARRAN OFF THE WEST COAST OF SCOTLAND WOULD BE WIPED OUT IN 1999 BUT AS EVERY 1 CAN SEE THAT ARRAN IS STILL THERE.

Interesting, but hard to beleive. Who knows....maybe this thread should go into conspiracy theories as well....

David Icke is brilliant and deserves a listen.