I never thought of it that way. Thanks for opening my eyes. I have always had a negative opinion about progress, well so aspects anyway. When I was younger I always invisioned the year 2000 would be a "Star Trek" world. I feared the world would forget about nature. But, as an adult I know that nature is vidal for our surivival. It is pretty sad that it seems people feel more comfortable talking through a machine, than face to face.

Yea, I think that is sad too but I think another problem in this world is that children aren't naive anymore, there is less and less innocence in them and you would hear them say at a very young age that they already have trust issues with people around them. I suppose it is the world that is changing.
Although expressing yourself through a machine isn't all bad, I guess it gives you time to reflect and clear out what you have to say in your mind logically rather then having to respond quickly in a conversation or finding it difficult to express your own emotions to someone esle as it requires a lot of trust.

Anyway, moving back to withcraft......
I don't really have an opinion on Witchcraft but I know some people that thinks they are practising Witchcraft when they have some very dodgy ideas and books that gives them the totally wrong impression.
I once know a girl that would do spells at the back of the girls toilets and some of the younger girls used to get scared so they came to tell me about it. That girl would jump off performs etc, fall to the ground and still be convinved that she was flying. It was as if she was on drugs and she was crazy, you can see it in her eyes. That scared me.
She had this Witchcraft book that she gets her spells from and a group of people saw how freaky she was with the book so they decided to take it away from her... when that girl was looking for her book, she looked like a drug addict in search for drugs, she was insane. It was a very weird experiene knowing this person.

Thanks for checking the link, I understand that for some Pagan or witchcraft is taboo. I had negative opinions as well when I was younger. I'm from Texas and you have to look high and low to find a witch. But, I have decided to walk the solitary path. I think spiratuality is more personal anyway. That is why I never got organized religion. My kids are starting to participate, of course my husband and I teach them about alot of paths. My husband is more into Budda. He was raised a Catholic and my parents encouraged me to chose my own path, though they did take us to many churches so we could have a better understanding.

I totally agree that spiratuality is personal and I think it is important to stay that way. It moves you away from uneccessary influences and brings you closer to your belief.
I think it is great that your family have so many different cultural influence, I think you can only choose the right belief for yourself after learning much about other religions otherwsie it would just be very narrowminded and limited in what you learn in one religion.

I am surprised there isnt any Pagan threads made....it would be nice to see one...just a thought

I dunno what makes him think that Catholics only held services on a Sundays???? They have ALWAYS and still do hold services on Saturdays too, I should know, because back when I went to church, I went on a Saturday, just so I didnt have to go on a sunday LOL

I too live in Texas and I know several Wiccans. There are a couple of covens in Abilene.

That disturbs me to know that she was acting that way. Witchcraft is a beautiful path. It is a nature-based religion. There is no devil-worshipping (how can there, most witches don't believe in the devil. ) Also, another misconception, when working spells, and in living our lives, we harm none!!

When people and their societies start to see their cultures as the abstraction layers they are that are just "another way of telling a story", then all cultures are equal.


I love this Hyper very good point to ponder......

Bella i see no justification of not allowing others the right to 'live' the american dream..its all B.S. to me, tehr is enough for all... We are built on immigrants...We are all form some where else...its silly IMO...... My ancsetors are from Italy.....We ahve got to start seeing the sameness in each other if we are to evolve, look for the congruency....Look to unity and ONENESS.....

Yea, I think it is this type of people that gives witchcraft a bad name as well as having all these silly stories about witches like the blair witch project etc.
When people realise that it is about nature, I think they will back off the subject a little. They are not about spells that curses people lol.

Great comedy btw ... was it even supposed to be a comedy O.o

Yes I think it was

Won't ever happen. If it does, thats a sign that the world is about to end. I'm not going to flip!

Haha, some kids I know used to take it so seriously. I mean, the film was just terrible lol. Did they just pay a few quid for some kids to scream and run in the forest? I got bored if it soon enough...

already is happening. Don't worry though, the world is not going to end, although your virtual world may crash! (in fact, it is crashing! maybe 20 years til....)

Byuu94:

You are absolutely correct! Jehovah's Witnesses does not acknowledge Christmas, birthdays, or other holidays.

JWs also fail to recognize people's right to privacy as well though.

they may not sell toys for dec 25th, but they spend 365 days a year shilling their beliefs. "choosing the lessor of two evils is still choosing evil"

hyperactive:

I will have to admit JW's can be a bit overzealous when it comes to recruiting new members, but hey, if it works for them so be it!

Just a little bit. I finally decided to get a new robe and when i hear em knocking I put it on and they never want to take up my time at that point.

Hey you know I had to develop my own tactics but it has worked nicely.
But for the most part they have been respectful and don't keep preaching. At least it is a good chance to wish someone to have a good day and pass a smile along.

Yea it was an absolute joke and whats worse ...some twit brought out a 2nd one

Star, that is funny. I put two signs on my door that says "Beyond this place, there be dragons" and the other says, "Doorway to enchantment". I also have a few withches balls hanging around, oh, and I also have a sign in my flowerbed that says "5 four-legged beasts live here" then it has the names of my cats -
Sassy
Spooky
Harley
Patehes
Tabitha
They don't come by my house anymore.

Great article, however I knew all of this before hand. It is amusing to see Christians being angered with the Pagan traditions that their own are derived from. It seems as though there needs to be a mass, global indoctrination and spreading of the truth. Until almost all the world knows it, I don't think we are going to see too much kindness or respect between the two religious affiliations; on the Christians' behalf, at least.

Yes, I have know about the Pagan roots for a while too. I have seen alot about the "sinister" Pagans lately and decided to show people that Paganism isn't bad and that Christianity has some Pagan roots. I just think it is a shame that people won't learn the truth before pointing the finger. I was one of those people at one time, but I grew up and I really feel that Wicca found me. If you have read my thread about adhesions...

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...topic=66235&hl=

Since I have been unable to work I have been reading alot. (tv gets very boring after about 2 weeks ) I have always been intrested in paranormal, I just stumbled across the mention of Wicca and became intrested.

my world is? Not so! Never will. Oh yes, the world is going to end. Sorry to ruin your plans.

Some people's children.....

The christians could not stop the believing & practicing of Paganism, not even by the bloody slaughter of hundreds of thousands.

The Pagans most holy celebration Hallow Eve as in Sacred Eve has been changed to Halloween and they are still trying to make it evil.

25 Dec The Sun's Birthday is now Christmas. But Jesus' name was not Christ. Christian's renamed it to Christmas for Christ Mass. ect.............................

Sly

I believe that Christianity is “...essentially a reflection of the worship of Attis, Osiris, Dionysos, Orpheus, and Adonis. All are built around the theme of a Savior-god who takes human form, teaches, suffers, dies, and rises again. The minor divergences from this theme lend no greater authority to one than another.” (Orpheus, A History of Religions, Reinach, Salomon, 1930, p.228). I think the major characteristics of the popular ancient saviour-gods and divine heroes were applied to the NT Jesus: the virgin birth, born by the power of a holy spirit, miracle worker, raising the dead, dying, resurrecting, and salvation, ascending to heaven and returning, claim to be the son of a god etc. Such stories were numerous and well known. For example, Alexander the Great, Pythagoras, Plato were supposedly born of women and conceived by the power of a holy spirit. Heracles was the child of the Zeus and a human woman. Julius Caesar (48 BCE) was proclaimed “god manifest, savior of human life, and divine man.” August was said to have been sent by God, Himself. Livy claimed that Romulus was conceived by a god, born of a virgin, and left no bodily remains after his death. Like the much later Jesus, he reappears to “commission his successors”. And then there’s my personal favorite, Apollonius of Tyana. Although he lived after Jesus, he was said to be the son of Zeus, perform incredible miracles--including raising the dead. He had quite the following. On and on and on.

I think such popular stories would have easily found themselves woven into the Jesus story. I believe Jesus to be a new god constructed from the most popular characteristics of the old gods--thus making him unique.

That said, I think it improbable that you will find a saviour-god that is a mirror-image of the Jesus as described in the NT. Why? Every god created was at one time unique. Over the centuries, these gods were adopted by various cultures, given different names and characteristics, and made new again. Jesus, in my opinion, was no different. He appears to be an old car with new parts. Thus, he is unique, just as every saviour-god preceding was unique. That said, there were many saviour-gods that shared at characteristics with the NT Jesus figure--close enough for early church apologists to go out of their way to denounce them [pagan saviour-gods] as deceptions of the Devil.

It is well known that these mystery religion preceded Christianity by at least a few centuries. The myth of Adonis was known to the Greeks as early as the fifth century BCE. The Egyptian myth of Osiris dates back to at least 4,000 BCE and was recorded in detail by the Greek biographer Plutarch (c46-120 CE). The Persian Sun-God Mithras was mentioned in the writings of the Greek historian Herodotus (c480-c245 BCE). The cult of Mithraism reached Rome in the first century BCE.

The way the early church fathers defended against the mystery religions showed that they knew these pagan myths antedated the Christian ones. Justin Martyr (c160-165) claimed that the devil plagiarized Christianity by anticipation with the pagan religions in order to lead people from the true faith. He claimed the myth of the virgin birth of Perseus, an ancient Greek legend that preceded Christianity, was pre-copied by the "deceiving serpent" (Dialogue with Trypho: 70). Similarly he asserted that the cultic rites of Mithraism had a diabolical origin (Apology 1:66). Tertulian (c160-c225) made the same claim: that it was the devil that provided this "mimicry". That the church fathers would resort to the absurd theory of pre-mimicry (i.e. the copy coming before the original) means that they could not make the claim that the pagan mystery religions copied from Christianity! Why couldn't they? Because it must have been well known to them and to their audience which came first! (Guirand, The Larrouse Encyclopedia of Mythology: p9, 81-82, 314; Benet, The Reader's Encyclopedia: p655-656; Price, Deconstructing Jesus: p91-93; Wells, The Jesus Myth: p100)

There were enough similarities between ancient saviour-gods and Jesus to put early church apologists on the offensive, to ring the alarm bells. That speaks volumes.

To go one further here ... As for dying and rising for the remission of sins . . . This was an ancient method of appeasing the gods. Animal sacrifices--the shedding of blood for the remission of sins--was quite common. Jesus--or the writers of the Gospels/NT--I believe, took this concept one step further. Instead of spilling the blood of a lamb, for example, to pay for the remission of sins, a human became the ultimate sin-offering. Human blood must be spilt for human transgressions--not that of an animal. Hence, Jesus became the “lamb” that must pay the ultimate price for sin--a sacrifice (sin-offering) that would benefit all of mankind. In effect, Jesus became the sacrificial “Passover Lamb” (GJohn).

Professor Elaine Pagels (Princeton) in Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas (p.20): “In the decades after his death, some followers of Jesus in Jerusalem invoked religious tradition to suggest that, just as animal sacrifices were offered in the Temple, so Jesus had died as a sacrificial offering. . .”

At the last supper--if this event even occurred--Jesus proclaims the wine the [disciples] drink to be his blood, the bread they eat his flesh. Eat and drink of it and be saved (John 6:53–56). This rather gruesome ritual--the Eucharist, a sin and sacrifice ritual (used in Catholic Mass to this day)--was practiced amongst many religions of antiquity. It was not unique to Christianity. In fact, some scholars believe it’s possible to trace such rituals to a period in the distant past known as the Totem Stage (I believe this is the correct term). During this period, tribes were honoring and sacrificing--making sin-offerings (bear or bull)--to Totem spirits. They then ate the sin-offering in a “Eucharistic-type” feast. Again, Pagels (Beyond Belief, p.19) draws a similar conclusion by stating, “. . . many Jews and gentiles might have recognized the eucharist as typical of ancient cult worship.”

Looking at Edward Carpenter’s (Brighton College; Trinity Hall, Cambridge) book Pagan and Christian Creeds (p.72) where he makes an interesting statement about sacrifice, sin-offering, and Christianity: “I say it is an astonishing thing to think and realize that this profound and mystic doctrine of eternal sacrifice of Himself, ordained by the Great Spirit for the creation and salvation of the world--a doctrine which has attracted and fascinated many of the great thinkers and nobler minds of Europe, which has also inspired the religious teachings of Indian sages and to a less philosophical degree the writings of the Christian saints--should have been seized in its general outline and essence by rude and primitive people before the dawn of history, and embodied in their rites and ceremonies.”

Sean

Hahahaha good find.

Thank you, kind sir.

Sean

No Sly, they couln't, could they. What is your opinion on tv commericals and billboards advertising Christian churches? I haven't seen any other religions doing this. I'm not trying to out Christianity down, I have wondered about this for a while. I also only started this thread because I wanted more people to know the truth.

Maybe that's a U.S thing, but you don't see that in AUstralia either. The only tv commercials are for the Salvation Army when they have an appeal for donations for some worthy cause or other.

The only billboards you see with Christian advertising are the ones standing outside the church saying "come in, vist us sometime" or something to that effect - and you have that outside any religious gathering, not just Christian.

It says a lot about the church though, if it is advertising like that. About its priorities, ie getting numbers into the pews, rather than the spiritual welfare of its parishioners. Personally, I think the money would be better spent elsewhere, with the church catering for the spiritual needs of its current members, rather than advertising for new ones.

Just my opinion.

Regards, PA

yeah, id say its a problem. many US churches, perhaps even my own, to an extent, are more concerned with quanity over quality.

Can you believe that there is a church here in Houston that bought the Summit (tht's where the Rockets used to play before they decided they needed a new stadium) Anyways, this church is always playing commercials, in fact they have a Sunday service on tv. Check this link, look at the picture on the home page. It will give you an idea of how large this church is.

http://www.lakewood.cc/site/PageServer

I just don't understand how anyone can feel spiritual in that crows!

I do have a question, what does "non-donominational" mean???

ive heard of the pastor of that church, he has a couple of "God is there to make you rich" books out.

non-denominational means that the church doesnt affiliate itself with any established denomination, like baptists, methodists, or lutherans.

So, would I be welcome as a Pagan? (not that I would want to go) I tried different churches long ago and it is just not for me. Seems to business-like and I just don't feel very spiriutal. Maybe because there is someone trying to tell me what to believe and they know the "truth"! No one will know the truth...until we die.

How, by the way, my mother-in-law has that book!

The pentagram (upsidedown Pentacle) is Pagan for the Feminine Goddess which was taken by "Satanists" and turned upsidedown for show!

Or so i read.

Um, if it is already upsidedown, and you turn it upsidedown is it not then rightside up?

[quote name='bubs_satansreject' post='1141913' date='Apr 10 2006, 06:00 PM']
Anyway, moving back to withcraft......
I don't really have an opinion on Witchcraft but I know some people that thinks they are practising Witchcraft when they have some very dodgy ideas and books that gives them the totally wrong impression.
I once know a girl that would do spells at the back of the girls toilets and some of the younger girls used to get scared so they came to tell me about it. That girl would jump off performs etc, fall to the ground and still be convinved that she was flying. It was as if she was on drugs and she was crazy, you can see it in her eyes. That scared me.
She had this Witchcraft book that she gets her spells from and a group of people saw how freaky she was with the book so they decided to take it away from her... when that girl was looking for her book, she looked like a drug addict in search for drugs, she was insane. It was a very weird experiene knowing this person.


we can thank TV and Movies, the way witches are depicted in the media, for that type of action.
we also must clarify that not all witches are Wiccan, and not all Wiccans are Witches, and not all Pagans are Wiccan............. 3 separate paths, sometimes coming together, sometimes not.

HMMM.....Australian Christian Television

The Australian Christian Channel is on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and is available right across Australia. The Australian Christian Channel is very much a new breed of Christian Television, which is fresh and relevant to all Australians. Offering a variety of programming including Children’s, music, lifestyle and teaching programs just to name a few.

Equally many christians remain totally ignorant of the background of what they are celebrating. Locally to (belatedly) mark the millennium a nearby village created a wood and stone circle, this is all supposed (since I cannot detect any energies) to be aligned on local energy lines; and a member of the village/parish council tried to mark the opening of the wood and cricle by having local schoolchildren perform songs etc at a ceremony on the winter solstice. The uproar amongst so-called christian councillors were unbelievable - they wouldn't have their children take part in pagan rituals etc etc (unbelievable I know). I can guarantee those same anti-pagans celebrated Chrismas in a church that was bedecked by a 'christmas' trees, and they would have had 'christmas' trees in their own home - wonder why they didn't realize their decoration marked midwinter/yule

Wow, I am amazed they managed to build the circle in the first place. In my town there would have been an up roar for building it in the first place. Where is this town? Do you have a link? Is the circle still standing?

It's only also available to Cable tv subscribers...... too bad for us poor buggers with free-to-air only.

I have seen it once or twice though when I've been over a friend's house. You know what? 99% of the time, the guy speaking has an AMerican accent. ANd often with addresses and links going to American churches

Regards, PA

Yes, that is kinda funny. I used to be a florist and we were at a beautiful mansion getting ready for a little girls birthday party. They had a May Pole there. I knew the family was Christian, but being professional, I didn't mention anything.

I think it is funny too that most churches have a steeple and most people don't know where it comes from...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tower

I found this link when searching for information about why Christians use certain symbols.

http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/pagan-symbols.html

novaceleste - I've merged your most recent thread with this one. They're almost identical.

Thanks. I thought about it after the fact...my mind is not all here tonight.