If god is our creater. can't he control his creation? I mean judas was real because god created him. since he's so powerful couldn't he know someone (such as judas)was betraying him, such as he's son (jesus) knew. If he could make a human, he can also
destroy a human, but that would be a sin that would make him imperfect, but if
he ignores the harm it would cause it would be a sin he would be breaking one
of his rules (the rule is something about helping those in need, and we were the needy).
So,he's imperfect? Also that story about that war with heaven, and hell, isn't fighting/war
a sin? where did god come from? I've heard people say he made himself. Impossible!
I used to think the atoms had delivered conciousness to themselves and are the so called
god, but I said no, how could atoms deliver themselves consciousness, and god
is divine and atoms aren't.Adam, and eve? I think it's just a story not a real happening
if it was; wouldn't adam, and eve live with the dinos like flinstones ( )?
Yes it's sientifically proven jesus walked the earth. what was not proven is if
he really did miracles, and that he was the son of god. Sometimes I think jesus
was a powerful psychic that "thought" he was the son of god.
Is the bible really the message of god? Not so sure, I mean
we don't know if jesus is really the son of god, but since the people weren't as
smart back then everything had an explanation to them; which was god. they
wrote bible according to what they saw, and believed, not forensic/scientific
evidence. So all this leaves me skeptical.

What do YOU guys think? what do YOU think about what I said?

please post your replys.

Intresting....can you please show me something...anything....that proves Jesus walked this earth??? Thanks

Sorry I can't. my grandma is the one who informed me of this.

Okie Dokie then....since I respect all grandmothers I will leave it at that lol

God did know that Judas would betray Jesus, but thats the point. This bad thing was ment to happen so that Jesus would be caught and crucified. (thus taking our sins) A lot of horrible things happened in the bible but it was all for a purpose, a bigger picture.

QUOTE STRANGEBUTSMART "I mean we don't know if jesus is really the son of god, but since the people weren't as smart back then everything had an explanation to them; which was god. they wrote bible according to what they saw, and believed, not forensic/scientific
evidence. So all this leaves me skeptical." UNQUOTE

Forensic and Science can't even fathom how to creat life, feeling, emotions, so does that mean your skeptical of if your living right now- cause it can't be forensic/scientifically proven how to do/create it either!

Thats where having faith comes in to it I guess

actually in a series of tests done, scientists were able to create basic amino acids and protiens using compounds found in an early pre life earth. therefore science knows what it takes to create life, we just have to put the amino acids/proteins/sugars together, so basically we know what to do, just not how to do it...where i assume god would come into play.

Its not Scientifically proven but its basically believed Jesus existed...Most (even skeptics) give Jesus that one- but what they dont know is whether he was this character the Bible talks of. I personally believe he was Great, a teacher, the "Son of God" (then again we are ALL children of God)...I actually live to be like Jesus he inspires me- heck even if he isnt real- theres no loss to being a good person.

Well apparently this was all part of Gods "Masterplan" ... You know Judas Betraying- Jesus Knowing- Jesus Dying For Us etc. To me God is Perfect in a WAY as in- i look at nature and it is perfectly perfect to me...What happens to us- what happens to the Earth in THIS life i barely relate to God...God designed the World- Designed Us- The Earth changed and we (and all life) changed with the Earth to match our needs...Our view of wanting "paradise" is in the next stage of life- lifes just a journey and were at one stage of this journey...theres more to it im convinced of that. Some people dont believe in God simply because they cant see him- but its a Proven Fact that things the human eye can not see do actually exist- so that blows their claim away. There are many things "unseen" to the Human Eye and God is one of them. Maybe you should put the Bible aside for a minute and think of the Bigger Picture- do you believe in a Creator? Forget Biblical Characters and Stories...Do you believe we were created? It is said that in the Heirachy of all things living- we originated from ONE thing and that one thing to me is God- Science doesnt have the answer or they key to everything. Science has been wrong many times...Im sick of hearing one second "This is good for you" then months later they say the same thing "Is bad for you"...Go watch them current affair programs where they do studies and say its scientifically proven that this certain thing is good for you- then they do another study and it shows theyve been wrong all that time- i can give hundreds of examples on scientific stuff ups... so as much as one might have to put the Bible aside for a minute- you will also have to put Science aside for a minute- go out and see the world- look at nature and tell me we arent living in a beautiful canvas painted by Gods hands.

If god is our creater. can't he control his creation?

Have you ever read the Bible at all? God created man with FREE WILL, meaning, while God does have the power to force us to act in a certain way, he will not.

The entire reason he created man with free will is so He could have a real relationship with man, as opposed to a realtionship with a bunch of mindless robots. He wants man to love Him. How can you love if you have no other choice?

I mean judas was real because god created him. since he's so powerful couldn't he know someone (such as judas)was betraying him, such as he's son (jesus) knew.

You haven't read the Bible. Jesus KNEW Judas would betray him. But that didn't change the mission he was on. Jesus came to Earth for one reason: To absolve our sins, through His sacrifice. Jesus didn't come to Earth to live a full productive life.


If he could make a human, he can also
destroy a human, but that would be a sin that would make him imperfect,

No, actually, it wouldn't. God has the power to judge people. We have not been given that power. It is a sin for US to take the place of God when we judge people. It is not a sin for the creator to end creation.

God cannot sin, IE, go against himself.

but if
he ignores the harm it would cause it would be a sin he would be breaking one
of his rules (the rule is something about helping those in need, and we were the needy).

You really do not know what you are talking about at this point. Your rambligs bear no relavence to anything in the Bible. You are going on hearsay.

Also that story about that war with heaven, and hell, isn't fighting/war
a sin?

You have no idea what this war was. It was when Lucifer, the Arch Angel, became prideful, went against God, and wanted to take God's place. Lucifer decieved other angels to side with him. The war was God throwing Lucifer and his angels out of the upper circles of heaven.

There is nothing in the Bible that says war is a sin. Murder is a sin. You say this is a contradiction? No. The Bible also teches us to stand up for what we believe. If a waring nation came to our country, we have the God given right to defend ourselves.

Also, in the Old Testament, the Israelites were often told to go to war against nation in which God had brought judgement upon, or that had a genepool with a generaltional curse on it.

where did god come from?

He didn't need to come from anywhere. Infact, the concept of beginning and end was created for your mind, and your life, so you would be able to live in this dimension. Before God created a beginning, the very concept of beginning did not exist. God created Angels with beginning, and no end. God created humans with a beginning as well.

SO ask yourself, what was "before" begeninning? The answer" No beginning: The possibility for eternity to stretch out in both directions.

Before there were humans which had a physical beginning and end, there was no need for the concept of before, and so it didn't exist.

The problem people have is they humanize the diety of God. They think that because everything on earth has a beginning and end, that surely God must have had a beginning and end.

Again, God created your mind with the cocept of beginning and end in it so you could percieve yourself moving forward in time. God, being outside of time, never needed a beginning.

I've heard people say he made himself. Impossible!

No, God did not make himself. He is outside of time, and always has been. He can be both beginning and end, throught eternity.

Adam, and eve? I think it's just a story not a real happening
if it was; wouldn't adam, and eve live with the dinos like flinstones

What on earth are you talking about? Do you think the first humans on earth, who were actually in direct linguistic communication with God, were some ignorant boobs barely capable of supporting themselves?

Have you ever seen the craftsmenship which came out of the mediteranian a few thousand years ago?

People have always had the same intellegence as they do today, if not more. I would argue MUCH more. The only thing that is different is out technology. Technology is the sum of the collective human effort over a period of time. We could still build stonehenge without using machinery, but since people before us invented machinery, that's what we use.


Yes it's sientifically proven jesus walked the earth. what was not proven is if
he really did miracles, and that he was the son of god.

Science cannot prove the supernatural. Nor can it prove evolution. Science comes from the latin word "scios" meaning, "I know". One can only know something if it is observable, measurable, and repeatable. Neither creation nor evolution can be observed, measured, or duplicated.

Sometimes I think jesus
was a powerful psychic that "thought" he was the son of god.

There are only two possibilities: Either Jesus was possibly the craziest person ever to walk the planet, totally out to lunch, and a conartist so big he has gone on to decieve billions of people accross the globe, not to mention those in HIS time....or...he was infact the son of God.

If he was a psychic, where did his power's come from? And how come no self proclaimed psychics today can duplicate his "act"?

Because selfproclaimed psychics are either scam artists, or get their power from the fallen ones. I have seen miracles of Jesus' caliber with my own eyes. I have seen people healed, I have seen people on kidney dialysis all of a sudden have their kidneys work again, I have seen asthma healed, and I have even heard credible reports of the dead being raised. One video which I was exposed to involved a man who had been enbalmed, and was ressurected. The enbalming fluid leaked out his orafices for days afterward.

Believe what you will. I just know what I have seen

Is the bible really the message of god?

Have you ever read it? Have you studied Greek and Hebrew, and pured over the entomology of the Scriptures? Have you ever had a conversation with a rabbinical scribe or priest?

If you answered no to even one of these, you might as well be a person who doesn't know how to swim, but is commenting on swimming techniques.

Or a person who has never had sex, describing sexual conquest.

Not so sure, I mean
we don't know if jesus is really the son of god, but since the people weren't as
smart back then

There is absolutely nothing in archaeology which indicates people were not as smart 2000 years ago as they are today. Not in any culture, not in any scientiffic field. What the roman's did with their empire revolutionized the entire world, and all free forms of government. People of that era were just as intellegent as they are today.

everything had an explanation to them; which was god.

Maybe, people back then didn't have public schools and mass media to brainwash them and tell them all how to think, so they were more able to understand the metaphysical aspect of life.

they
wrote bible according to what they saw, and believed, not forensic/scientific
evidence. So all this leaves me skeptical.

If you see something happen, you KNOW it happened. This is the essense of what the word science means, so you just inadvertantly contradicted yourself.

I don't want to insult you, but you may be to young to properly handle this conversation.

While your points are valid, they are the basic of base level reasoning, and show little to no knowledge of the Bible, history, or the time persiod on question.

Ramster...do you have the National Geographic channel over there??? My partner watched this programme called - The Gospel Of Judas...see here - http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/chan...aily/daily.html

He recored it on Sky TV for me so I got to watch most of it before I went to bed

Anyhoo.... This programme was really intresting...they say there is facts that do indeed show that Jesus did in fact walk the earth.....this was amazing Ramster..I only wish you could have seen it...but it was the work of science that have proved this, not religious folks.

On that site I put up there you can go in and watch it if you like So when I asked - Stangebutsmart...could he/she prove this...I thought maybe he/she had seen something like this before

Hey BM i do have NAtional Geographic i actually saw the previews to it but havent had the chance to watch it- i cant wait to watch it actually...Im sure this is some compelling evidence for Jesus- but then again its not the greatest news for those reading our latest Bibles- which in a way contradict what is said in this latest finding/gospel. Yet still one hit and one loss with this finding- they found that Jesus was real (and Judas) but that he wasnt as evil as thought out to be- and he was just obeying commands by Jesus! Great stuff...Will let ya know when i watch it!

Ohh let me know once you have seen it..its worth the watch...I was amazed of the proof that Jesus was indeed real and that Judas did not betray him ect...intresting programme

So if God knew that, does that make him all-knowing? And if this is the case, punishing people in the Bible seems to imply otherwise.

Weren't the Angels created to be servants of God/without free will? If so, then wouldn't that make it impossible for Lucifer to defy God?

Is this the same Lucifer that is a mistranslation?
About the angels without free will, the only place I've heard this was in the Book of Enoch. I believe they were the angels did not reside with God in the tenth heaven. Some say seven.
Based on this it would not be impossible for Lucifer to defy God, since he was with God in that precinct.

that is because the scientist discover more things. for example a chocolate bar,
first they say, "it's bad for you it can cause this and, this , and this.",and the next day
they'll tell you, "wait, we need a little sugar for our body which means this is good."

TOO MUCH sugar is bad for you...get it right LOL its also bad for your choppers...but when they say you need a little (key word a little) sugar for eneregy ect...I think they KNOW what they are talking about

It's the same with SALT...Our bodies contain it..we do need a lil..but if we over do it and take in TOO MUCH of it it can do serious harm

Yes, I know that, but god still let judas tempt people. which means god should've done something about judas after everything came as god wanted it to be.

I find this whole topic wierd
1okay jesus was sent to relieve sin from everybody that is no sin
Jesus died to take away peoples sins
2 the story about war isn't in any bible i ever saw very few christians believe it
the storys of the bible were compiled and put together some stories were chosen others were not.

I know, but my teacher told me that you will be what god wants you to be in the future. shouldn't that require control over humans? how are we supposed to have free will
when we will be what god wants us to be? like I said before; doesn't that require control
over humans?

no just over the elements

no, I'm saying that dinos. lived at that piriod and, so did adam, and eve.




yes.



were they able to make computers?



Have you ever heard the scientific method. yes, you must to be able to see to prove, but science is not just seeing, you have to use methods mathematics etc. to see if what you saw was really what happened. it's like a magician; i saw cards appear on his hand,
but you suddenly find out oh he put the cards up his sleeves.