Well then I like the sound of your God..laughter is the best medicine

Indeed she is. She does not tolerate other beliefs, she calls them madness and acts as if she is superior to those with other beliefs.



Her "holier than thou" attitude does not fit into that. Plus, we have already told you we see what your god has supposedly determined about us, and we really dont give a damn.



Well then I have 2 things to say.
1. Since she says science is not fact, then she shouldnt claim the bible as fact, since, according to you, they have the same credibility.
2. How do you figure?



And whats your point?



Yes... some subjective knowledge... like the idea of religion, perhaps? You know... the "Well, science cant explain it, therefor god did it" or "I cant comprehend this, therefor god did it."

Along with the "Since I cant comprehend this, god did it, and since you dont believe me, you're going to hell due to your own madness."



Nor does the bible, so whats your point?



Ignore it? The bible doesnt contain the "truth" any more than the koran or any other book.



Thats your subjective opinion. People may think its right to ditch the bible.



How arrogant. Maybe its you whos decieving yourself...



Of course. Instead of listening to the reasons we give you why we dont believe in god, you'd rather make up your own baseless explanation. I thought this thread was for you to find out why we dont believe in god... it appears you had a hidden agenda... you wanted to turn all this into a witchhunt, with yourselves as judge, jury and executioners.





Not you and your wife. You and your wife simply treat nonbelievers as subhumans...



Then let god judge us. Leave us alone if you're going to treat us like we're worse then you. We dont much care what you think of us, we do have a problem with you harassing us.



There is no truth to be heard. You are arrogant enough to think that you have the truth, the rest of us are realistic. As for me prefering the devil, I dont believe the devil first of all... but if the devil believes I should get angry at the "judgement" that I should be punished for not believing as you do, I'll side with him over you. THAT is moral conviction. Dont fool yourself.



Repent what? I have been a good person in life. I have nothing to repent. I dont believe it is wrong of me to not believe in the biblical god, and if my lack of worship in a certain diety outweighs my good actions and thus sends me to hell, I and everyone else are right to be angry at that judgement. Furthermore, that would just serve to prove that your gods priorities are misplaced... he cares about people worshiping him more than people helping others. Doesnt sound like much of a loving god to me...



You have not covered the truth... quit trolling.



No... many of us dont want to hear "your going to hell" because we dont share the same beliefs as you, therefor we dont believe we're going to hell.



Unrighteously? Not at all. We follow our moral code... Apparently, however, if a person is more altruistic than you, if he devotes his life to helping others, he is still unrighteous unless he worships your god. Your mentality belongs in the middle ages.



Wow, you definitly are tollerant, I mean, its not as if you go around telling people that their beliefs are lies...



Since we dont believe in god, we dont believe theres any way god wants us to do things. Furthermore, its not that we dont like doing things gods way, its that we dont like you forcing your belief on us. You know... instead of living in peace, you'd rather cause trouble by going out and telling people that they are wrong and evil and wicked and whatnot... and you have the nerve to call yourself righteous.

You know, I havent gone around interrupting peoples lives in order to tell them, repeatedly, that they are evil and that they are going to hell, unless they convert and believe as I do. Why? Because my belief is not frail enough to depend on whether they believe the same. Because I realise that such threats are not going to spread my belief in any sort of good light. Because I realise that its simply a belief, and is no more or less right than any belief. Because I have the decency to realise that the have the choice of what to believe, and they've chosen not to believe what I believe. Because I tolerate their belief and their decision.

correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't religion created to explain what science could not? that makes it even LESS credible than science, considering that it is a 'theory' with little to no proof of its validity. at least scientists have evidence to back up their theories.

Ahhh yes, the "we're only trying to help..." speech along with the "you are going to hell" admonition.

There are numerous threads where these two 'missionaries' have started a thread where they ask what others think, or why they don't believe, or whatever that then turn into a diatribe of frothing evangelism.

THEY know the TRUTH!!!! We are all DOOMED to HEY-ALL!! pfah! they and those like them are the reason people like myself shy away from their religion. They embody the worst of the faithful.

Then, when you become fed up with them telling you that you are a sinner and doomed and "but why can't you see the truth that is "JAY-SUS!?!" and respond in an irate manner, they claim that their 'truth' has struck a nerve.

As I pointed out earlier, these boards are for the discussion and debate of religions and related issues. NOT for preaching overbearing tirades against anything that is different from the beliefs of some of the members.

and, once again, when gwyny puts her foot in her mouth, bluefinger arrives to pull it out.

rose ashes, its actually the other way around, science was made to discover what religion had no answers to, formerly referred to as 'divine'.

I've noticed some harsh words in this thread, as well as read a couple reports. If this cannot continue in a civil manner the thread will be closed.

EXACTLY UA 100% correct

ya know some people will never turn to the true God that there is because they just cant get the concept, they won't to argue about what god did to men,like killing them for doing what god said not to do or you would die why couldnt they just do what god said because they were stupid and didnt believe god. and yeah alot of people are going to hell it is just a fact, god doesnt want them to go to hell but people who dont believe on jesus and what he did will not go to heaven, sorry its the truth and i will not argue with it. yeah the bible is a book written by god through men. and people will not grasp that. people always want to ask well why does god allow us to live as we live when he could make us do what he wants, its called free will and god will not force anyone to do anything, he never has and never will. we make our own choices in life, there are only two ways to live for god or for your flesh, doing only what you want living in the sin that you shouldnt be living in. why is it so hard not to live in sin, its not people just dont want to try because the flesh loves sin, that is why people reject god and jesus. this is an argument that will never end thats why christians should move on from arguing with the people who will never turn to god. Jesus said that if you were not accepted somewhere to dust your feet and go on somewhere else. And thats what we have to do. You will win some for jesus and then you wont win others, oh well move on somewhere else, because in the end every knee shall bow and tongue confess that jesus christ is lord!!

I dunno if she is acting superior but yes I agree she did class them as MADNESS and when I saw that I was like --WOW stall the ball here a sec..how can anyone class others beliefs as madness??? Thats absurd..and bang out of order


There is no true belief..everyone that follows a faith..will believe their belief is the one and only..and thats fine and dandy...but calling other faiths madness is not fair...what makes anyone think that, thats what God wants from us huh???

The bible does not make it so to everyone..it was written by man and much like religion it was man made...and thats a fact

Welcome to UM ThomasC.

I will refrain from comment on the last line of your post.

ah... well, i believe that my point still stands.

It most definetly does rose ashes, religion and god are based on faith alone. For some, if not most, that is enough. Science was actually started to find out how divine god could be. The two went hand in hand for quite some time. The illusion of science vs religion today will, i believe, go away when science proves what it was intended to find, proof of divinity. Its well on its way.

The term NB's i believe is misconstrued to refer only to religion, or at least thats what i get from it (otherwise what would the term be good for when the word athiest has been around much longer) . I am a NB in that regard. There are other roads, that offer more knowledge and less blind faith than popular religions, to each his own. As long as you are happy with your choice. It really does not matter.

Oh I believe it to be true...but no matter what science proves UA..there will always be a religious person/persons that will still go against it

If science proved there really is a God and the proof was convincing and it opened the eyes of a lot of the NB's through out this entire planet...I'd dare say that some religious folk would STILL say science is wrong...it wouldnt matter what science can or cant prove...religious (some of them) will always fight it..and I'd dare say a number of NB's would too

"Single vision produces worse illusions than double vision or many-headed monsters."

"Live, and let think."

"What is hateful to you do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole of the Torah. The rest is commentary."

"Strange is our situation here on earth. Each of us comes for a short visit, not knowing why, yet sometimes seeming to divine a purpose."

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours."

Very rarely is there no opposition to dramatic change BM. it does not mean the change wont be right, if it happens.

mklsgl, eye opening quotes there very zen

True, but wasn't science under the domain of the church for centuries?

yes it was turtle, i did mention that a couple posts down

Whoops...sorry I missed that.
Do you think that sciencxe is still influenced by the church?

Yes, we're all so stupid because we dont believe in YOUR god. Hell, I guess that makes the majority of the world idiots



If its a fact, show me the proof.



You expect us to believe that?



Oh yeah? Prove it.



Then respect them!



No, we reject them because we believe something else, and we dont consier it a sin.



Heres a tip: Practice what you preach!

Where do you get off calling those that dont believe stupid? And stall the ball for a sec, how the heck do you know for sure people will go to hell? Are you going to tell us that God told your personally? Cuz you did state it as FACT....say Thomas..can you tell the difference between the words FACT & FAITH??

FACT: Hell is a a fancy name for the grave. Yes, we all die. That is what hell is truly emplying. However, the second death (which many mistake Gehenna as) is the everlasting destruction.

So here is another FACT: If people refuse to believe in God and the eternal life he offeres, then eternal death (Hell) is what they get. That is a fact. Cry about it all you want. The truth is that people don't want to follow God because they want to live their lives they way they want. Fair enough. So thats why they go to hell.

Ya know how I know this? On Good Friday, a Church with kids no more than 13 were carrying on tradition by carrying a cross down town. They were not saying a word. People were cursing them out, flipping them off, and all sorts of aggressive things. And you say that religion is destructive!? Yeah, people hated those kids even though they didn't say a word. Why? Because everyone knows about Jesus, but many refuse to do what he says. I know that this article is trustworthy, because me, my wife, and my friend Perry wrote a sign saying, "Jesus is coming, repent." and many were aggressive. Some on bikes ran up saying, "no." Thats understandable. But some in their cars flipped us off and waved their fists. They cussed us out and scorned us. All we were doing was advertising, like TV does for many things. Jesus is coming really soon. The time to give your life to Jesus is now.

Sorry, but that's not fact, that's your belief.

While I do believe in god, I know several people who are avowed atheists. I have talked with them extensively on this subject, and the general consesus for their belief is skepticism in the bible, really...they find that many things written in it are completely far-fetched and ridiculous, impossible to believe...yet most of them are skeptic towards pretty much any paranormal phenomena, they want hard evidence before they can determine anything as being real.

So requesting or requiring evidence is a bad thing?

If it is, then you must believe me when I tell you that I have the telekinetic ability to fly, and excrete gold bullion. Obviously, if you do not believe me, then you lack faith and are an atheistic sceptic.

I can see this thread is headed in the wrong direction.
Last warning before i close it. Be civil, that goes to both believers, and NB's .

No more name-calling, and insulting.

Here is a FACT BLUE...I think you have lost your marbles...who the heck gave you the power to tell me or anyone like me I am going to HELL..how dare you...this is WHY I wont follow your faith...its people like you that make the christian faith sound terrible..<--lookie another FACT
And you wonder why some people come up to you and your wife in a rage?? LOL even on here...she come on and makes such a nonsense thread and others claim she puts her foot in her mouth and along comes you to add fuel to the fire....do you ever read what you post???Saying that those who dont believe or dont follow the same flipping root as you is madness....yea sunshine it must be..but only in your eyes...not Gods...cuz here is another lil fact for you blue...You and your wife and others like you will never really KNOW what God is thinking OR how his mind works...and yes sunshine thats a FACT...you can believe in it all you want but its faith...AND... all you and your wife has is FAITH so get used to it


Ohh btw If you think I was a tad harsh..Blue you asked for it..you with your ignorant posts...its funny how other christians on here dont act like you...they use their heads before posting and they show some consideration to others and their faith..you and your wife have yet to do this...catch yourselves on

No disrespect UA but I think it should be closed but the ball is in your court hope you dont mind me saying this.... I for one am requesrting for it to be closed...it has angered a number of people and by just reading the title...sorry but I speak my mind

i refuse to aknowledge a creator who takes credit for things contrary to his own rules, do as i say not as i do kinda junk, the christian god is a spoiled child standing over an anthill with a magnifying glass, this is not a supreme being in my opinion therefore it is just a fairy tale made up to scare people into submision to an elitist hierarchy for the sole purpose of control and power, unchecked power will corrupt even the best of us, would it be any different for religious leaders?

i agree BM it is a road to anger and frustration on this topic

Yea it is...there are christians that do show all heart on here and I admire them...but these two dont...I have taken the side of both christian and NB in my time, I dont like it when others throw insults of any kind....what made them think that NB's and non christians would not get offended by this nonsense? The same would go for a NB that would make a thread saying the same about those who are religious, agaion I would say thats bang out of order...other christians can make similar threads to this and have done..but did it so no one was hurt by it..only because they know how to word things right

Remember folks, they are entitled to their opinion as well as everyone else. I for one am more amused than angry (still chuckling over "gravity needs an atmosphere" myself).

But in the end, all their supposed facts come from two sources: their holy book and their own overinflated egos. The fact they are so sure that they are the 'chosen' ones of their god, and the rest of us are poor deluded sinners headed to hell (whatever the definition) in a handbasket, amuses me to no end.

But, if it can't be kept civil, then I agree it should be locked. And I am as guilty as the rest.

mea culpa

They didnt state it as their belief JM..the state it as FACT...others that say the same say its their belief..and I respect that...

Well sweety, I lived on a farm for 19 years and after an absence of 31 years, I have been back in the country and on the ranch for 14 years. Unless the company that produced the “cud” rabbit food you mentioned has been in business since the creation, then you are attempting to blow smoke up our posteriors, especially since the “cud” could not be partially digested vegetable matter produced by a rabbit! Here is the “skinny” on cud-chewers and on rabbits:
Cud chewers are generally classified as belonging to the order of ruminants- (a sub order of artiodactyls) - and are defined as an "even-toed animal that regurgitates and masticates its food after swallowing. " This means that a cow, for example, will eat vegetation and swallow it. The cow's stomach is divided into four chambers where some of more easily digestible nutrients are absorbed by the body while other more fibrous material is stored in the stomach and then regurgitated. The cow will re-chew this material and re-swallow it so that it can digest it as well.
Rabbits and hares, however, do not have a chambered stomach such as the cow. They also do not regurgitate their food. What they do perform is a function named cecotropy. I will quote Margert "Casey" Kilcullen-Steiner, (M.S., L.A.Tg) who writes:
Rabbits are sometimes called "pseudo-ruminants"... The rhythmic cycle of coprophagy of pure cecal contents practiced by all rabbits allows utilization of microbial protein and fermentation products, as well as recycling of certain minerals. Whereas the feces commonly seen excreted by rabbits are fairly large, dry and ovoid, excreted singly, and consist of fibrous plant material, cecotrophs are about half that size, occur in moist bundles stuck together with mucus, and are very fine textured and odiferous. They are seldom seen, as the rabbit plucks them directly from the anus as they are passed and swallows them whole. Normal rabbits do not allow cecotrophs to drop to the floor or ground, and their presence there indicates a mechanical problem or illness in the rabbit.
Now, we must also remember that artiodactyls were first defined as a separate order in 1847 by Richard Owen and the behavior of cecotropy was first recognized in 1882. Deuteronomy, however, was written approximately 600 BCE in Hebrew. Christian Apologists claim that it would be intellectually dishonest for someone to claim that a 2600 year old writing is contradictory because it doesn't match with a scientific classification invented only about a hundred years ago. This, however, is mature male bovine manure, since the bible is supposedly god’s word given to man and is said to be inerrant! It would seem that either the Christian god does not understand the physiology of the animal he created, or the bible is just so much mythology! Further, since the ancient Hebrews defined 'cud-chewing" as that process where half digested vegetation was re-chewed by an animal for easier re-digestion ( and that is a very specific and scientific definition), I would say the hare, who does not rechew the half digested vegetation taken from it’s anus and instead swallow it whole without chewing, does not fit here in any way or form. In Lev11:6 it says, “And the hare, because he cheweth the cud”, since rabbits do not chew their cud, the Christian’s “holy scripture” is shown to be in error and one error calls to question all in the book!


Well, ThomasC, I would not bend knee to a fake god. Tell me when Jesus was born, your date has to agree with the gospels and with recorded history. If you can't then the NT is erroneous and nothin in it can be taken as the truth!

Love that one Gywny....What is your major?

So much for reading UM with breakfast.

LOL

More cream for your cecotrophs?


ROFL

Fact? That's your belief.



1. That is not a fact, that is your belief.
2. Apparently your wife has a different understanding, because she claims that we'll all go to hell and keep the devil company. If we're simply dead forever, we cant keep the devil company, can we?



Oh really? If its a fact, show me the proof which makes it fact.



We're not crying about it, because we dont believe it.



Fine, believe that if you want, but stop preaching to us.




Maybe they saw you there?



I have a hard time believing you, considering all you and your wife do is preach and tell us we're going to hell...



Many were aggressive? Gee... go figure. You do not even see the wrong you do. Hell, maybe I should point a gun at someone, and then blame THEM for being aggressive/hating me/whatever.



And thats understandable as well, and its your fault, not theirs. You were the aggressor. Making a sign that says "Jesus is comming. Repent." Is just like flipping US off. You started it, dont blame the others for fighting fire with fire. You're nothing more than a troublemaker and a hatemonger. I'd bet good money that you made the sign knowing that it is wrong and knowing what kind of a reaction it'd provoke. Maybe next time you should make a sign with a swastica on it, and parade that. You'd get an even stronger reaction from the "evil people who are starting all of this hate".



I'll give my life to whoever I see fit. Stop telling people what to do, and maybe we wont tell you to f*** off?



The thread was IN the wrong direction since the beginning. It should have been closed long before. Saying this thread is "headed" in the wrong direction is the equivalent of someone rewriting the Mein Kampf and saying that its "headed in the wrong direction."

Oh come on people, lighten up.

They are entitled to their beliefs.

If they want to claim that they are right and everyone else is wrong, they are welcome to do so.

We however, are equally entitled to ignore them if we choose.

I'd really hate to see this get locked because I'm learning so many new science facts.

I think we all know that none of the issues brought up in here will ever be resolved. Belief is such a powerful thing, it can be overbearing.

I should have closed it with my last post, but i gave it this chance. This will not happen again. There are many other threads where peaceful discussion is possible. this is just too touchy a topic to allow anymore.