An atheist's account.

Firstly let me state quite clearly i am an atheist. The term itself is open to debate, i know. What is an atheist and what is a christian?, are questions that can be debated ad infinitum. It will suffice to state that most arguments of these kinds result from one very simple question which at the moment is impossible to answer, that being, First Cause.

Most arguments tend to crystallize around, “how did the universe start?”. Both sides atheists and religionists use this as a starting point for their arguments. Religion, in whatever shape or form, has its own view as to how it started. Science as i see it looks not for Truth in the religious sense but wants to explain the universe in terms of how it works, it is inevitable then that this leads to the question of how it started.

Religion tends to view the universe as being created by a supernatural being, it looks around itself and tries to explain what happening in the world and looks for causes, which inevitably leads back to how it ALL started. Various views have been put forward as to how it may have ALL started. Religion was doing quite well until science began questioning, not religious beliefs, but how it could ALL have started.

At first religion defended its beliefs then slowly over time it began accepting that science offered irrefutable evidence to how things worked. Religion could not publicly stand in its way, people can be fooled but people are not fools.
It is interesting to note that when those in science began to explain more about it ALL, people began to step back and think science is maybe going too far. Suddenly we have a great clash of ideas. One of my favourites is that the supernatural being is eternal, no beginning and no end.

How can science refute('refute' is too prove wrong not just deny it) that? Well it did it in a brilliantly classic 'turn it on its head' kind of way. It simply stated that the UNIVERSE is eternal. Therefore it follows that a supernatural being could NOT have created it, if it is indeed eternal it doesn't need a creator. This is exactly what religionists state about the supernatural being, it is eternal therefore it didn't have a creator. Then along came the Big Bang theory which many religionists still oppose on the grounds that the supernatural being made the universe so that theory cannot possible be true.
However more astute religionists point out that, as we have the first cause concept so ingrained in our brains, it is perfectly feasible to argue that the supernatural being made that little dot from which all matter came. Therefore the supernatural being did indeed create everything. This is where the argument stands today.

Many religions, or their denominations, argue that science will reveal the TRUTH and that they will be vindicated by scientific exploration, others think this idea is heresy because they already know the TRUTH and that science is out to disprove that. That after all is what science does, it sets out to disprove hypotheses and if it can't then what is left becomes the new fact about the universe.

These arguments aside what is left? Among the the arguments that remain are, Why the universe and why us, what is the purpose of life and where do we go when we die? The answers to these questions are much more difficult to find and then to support. We all know we are going to die. This is a fundamental of life. But why do we have life? Some say it is an accident some say it was designed.

I stated at the beginning that I am an atheist as opposed to a religionist. Why? Well i asked myself what it is about being ME that stops me from hurting others. Is it the fear of hell-fire and damnation, is it because of man-made laws or is it because of gratitude to a man who died on a cross or to some great creator? The answer to all these questions is no. I concluded therefore that they are not necessary. However, and here's the rub, I accept that life is far more interesting with all of the above. The need to feel not 'alone' is so strong so necessary that as an atheist i sometimes feel alone. What a wondrous world where gods and ghosts and fairies and spirits mischievous and otherwise populate this earth and the heaven above and any place in between, even aliens. What a richly diverse series of events life would be, i truly think so. But alas for this atheist who thinks, some would say too much, about how life truly is; there is no supernatural being waiting to judge all the bad guys of this world he just wishes there were...sigh.

Happy to discuss with others.
Searcher 7

There is no reason to accept that God didn't create the universe in the exact way that science describes. I have yet to read about a legitimate scientist looking for "god" or "spirit". I firmly believe it can be done. Most scientists seem as hard-headed as Xians in their atheism. A truly open-minded scientist would try to find the answers. btw, welcome to the forum.

Welcome to UM

Wow, good post, I'm not sure what to say... Personally, I don't believe that science is out there to prove religion wrong, but they work hand in hand... I'm not a christian-opposing-atheism (some of my close friends are atheistic), but I always believed that science helped religion in a way, too. Stick around, you sound kewl

Well you can certainly take your pick on the dietys up for worship and adoration....they are in abundance lol

If I suddenly felt I had to revere a higher power I'd pick cheesecake!

I could respect the effort , enjoy the rewards, and test my resolve to believe I'll abstain or have another piece, and grow as a human being. Fat happy and not over concerned with crumb clean up because it's the least I can do for such a lovely experience of enjoying cheesecake.

And if I wanted to be terribly sinful and then spank myself for the transgression later, I'd decorate with fresh berries and drizzle with melted chocolate and carb-rush myself into a hyperactive stroke of my taste buds.

Afterward I'd poof really loudly as a right and proper "amen", and thanksgiving for....cows that made it all possible.

Well IM Fr you certainly pick your posions don't you .....

I do! I do indeed! *lifts tray* Care for a slice?

Atheism is great. You can learn without having all this dogma running through your head and contradicting every bit of logic ever conceived of. It is my opinion that I have things to learn and sights to see, not doctrines to follow religiously. Knowledge, in my opinion, is more important than salvation in some foolish idea of a perfection called Heaven. What is the point of wasting your life trying to get into heaven? I think I'll pass. [However that does not mean I do not have iron beliefs on being respectful and compassionate to all others]

Great post, anyway. It is still my firm belief that the universe is eternal, although time boggles my mind. I have a great many ideas on how it works, but of course that would take pages to explain and is for it's own thread. Good luck.

Don't let the dry dogs of science get you down. There are many younger scientists full of life and curiousity that dare to question their old empty interpretations of reality.
Alternate dimensions and studies on collective consciusness, as well as a continuance of consciouness after death, may be what can give you the wonder and stimulation that you seem to seek.

I think you might really enjoy reading this well written post for a start. I have it bookmarked on my favorites.

The Universe as God link

Well, i did ask for sympathy and i got it! Thanks guys.

I have adopted a questioning style that i hope allows people to 'see' if not appreciate the other point of view in this forum. I hope to stimulate and to add to some of the debates.

Why can't i believe in god? I used to. He/she didn't do me any harm, it was the believers who did that. Scary tales of Hell and guardian angels shadowing your every move...Brrrrr!

God loves me so why should i turn against him? I'm a nice guy so i'm not afraid of judgement day. I know it takes a leap of faith to suggest that the creator of the universe is the Christian god, but that's what faith is isn't it?

Well, I think it's like this. The proved truth hurts, and unproved "truth" is comforting. Tradition has it that we have a happy ending. In real life, we don't get exposed to this happy ending very often, some not at all.

I think the reason you can't believe is because the examples shown in life that are able to be proved, are, for the most part, not happy endings. You're using a lawyers mind, find previous examples of the current case. When have any of us seen anyone rise from the dead? So your mind is saying, since I can't reference anywhere a factual case of someone raising from the dead or going to "heaven", how can I believe that's what's going to happen? Logic is saying, it doesn't. But your emotional side is saying, "there has to be something, it would be sad if there wasn't." Well, reverting back to real life, the truth isn't always a happy ending.

Peace

Except for that plants before the sun bit.

Great post..SEARCHER

God does not fdo anyone any harm...it is the believers and I am not talking about those within this forum..I mean all believers throughout this world (sorry most even)

well, that made me laugh. thanks, yele. i needed that.