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GrimReaper797
This article was made by me. I came up with the original idea, and i found all the references, connected all the dots. This article was originally posted on abovetopsecret. I have sent it to Scholars for 9/11 Truth Movement. Enjoy.

References:
http://www.epa.gov/WTC/factsheets/wtchealt..._health_effects (1)

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/ (2)

http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/asbe...asbhltheff.html (3)

http://www.owenscorning.com/acquainted/health/research.asp (4)

[url=http://]http://www.us g.com/USG_Marketing_Content (5)

http://www.cdrecycler.com/articles/article.asp?Id=4626 (5)

http://www.mittalsteel.com/NR/rdonlyres/A6...FurnaceIron.pdf (6)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,42730,00.html (7)

http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html (8)

http://www.checktheevidence.com/911/Thermite2.htm (9)


Let me start by addressing the health effects during 9/11.
[ex]
As a result of exposure to the dust and smoke, many people living and working in downtown Manhattan experienced short-term health effects. Generally, these effects included coughing and eye, nose and throat irritations. In some cases, people experienced an increase in asthma attacks and some health professionals have reported new cases of asthma in previously healthy people. These short-term health effects dissipated for most once the fires were put out. Some sensitive individuals continued to report irritation as pockets of dust became resuspended. Most healthy people will not suffer long-term consequences.[/ex](1)


These irritations were believed to be from Glass Fiber, Gypsum, Concrete, and Paper dust particles. This is what was suppose to explain the short term health effects at the WTCs.
[ex]
The dusts released from the WTC building collapse are largely composed of particles of glass fibers, gypsum, concrete, paper, and other miscellaneous materials commonly used in building construction.[/ex](2)


Now no longer term effects are expected and Asbestos was not expected to play any effect in the health effects at the WTC attacks.(3)

Now that we know the official side effects for health that these attacks had we will examine how each should have an effect and if these materials match the official side effects.


We will start with the Glass Fibers. Glass Fibers usually cause irritation to the nose, throat, and lungs. This matches many of the symptoms that were encountered at the WTC attacks. But if this were a cause for such symptoms, these symptoms would last for at least 10 days because studies show that lungs shouldn’t be able to get rid of such particles for at least that time.
[ex]In contrast to other fibers, that may persist in the body for decades, ordinary insulation wool glasses are quite soluble in the body and are removed in a period of weeks or months.[/ex] (4)

In other words, this means that Glass Fibers could not have been the cause for symptoms since them would have last longer then just that day. This makes it so that we can rule out Glass Fibers being a cause to the health effects.


Next we will move on to Concrete. The WTC was high-rise buildings, so not much concrete was used in order to reduce the weight. This enables a high-rise building to be built higher and reduce weight. That means that concrete could not have been a major cause of the health effect since there wasn’t enough concrete to cause major effects.


What we would most likely believe to be the cause of the symptoms, Gypsum. This meets all of the side effects and seems to almost exactly fit what would be a cause. It does make up a decent amount of the building and could been seen as the most probable reason for the side effects.
[ex]
"Eyes: Airborne dust or direct contact can cause mechanical irritation of eyes. If burning, redness, itching, pain or other
symptoms persist or develop, consult physician.

Inhalation: Inhalation of dust can irritate the nose, throat, and the upper respiratory tract. Persons subjected to large
amounts of this dust will be forced to leave area because of nuisance conditions such as coughing, sneezing and nasal
irritation. Labored breathing may occur after excessive inhalation. If respiratory symptoms persist, consult physician. "[/ex]
(5)

Or is it?


What I am now going to show you is the side effects of breathing in dust/fumes from Molten Iron.
[ex]
"Inhalation: Excessive exposure to high concentrations of dust/fume may cause irritation to the eyes, skin and mucous membranes of the upper respiratory tract. Excessive inhalation of fumes of freshly formed metal oxide particles sized below 1.5 microns and usually between 0.02-0.05 microns from many metals can produce an acute reaction known as “metal fume fever”. Symptoms consist of chills and fever (very similar to and easily confused with flu symptoms), metallic taste in the mouth, dryness and irritation of the throat followed by weakness and muscle pain. The symptoms come on in a few hours after excessive exposures and usually last from 12 to 48 hours. Long-term effects from metal fume fever have not been noted. "[/ex]
(6)
In other words people exposed to this will suffer most of the official side effects that were at the WTC. The side effects not officially experienced were Metallic taste in mouth, Fever like symptoms, and flu symptoms. Lets take a closer look though.


What we find is amusing and striking at the same time. Fox news reports a story ridiculing The Washington Posts attempt to say that reoccurring symptoms were a cause of Asbestos.
[ex]
"George Tabb and his wife tried to stick it out in their apartment just north of the World Trade Center, tried to ignore his twice nightly asthma attacks and her pounding headaches." The Tabbs eventually moved in with his stepfather, but Tabb gets a metallic taste in his mouth and wheezes when he returns home to pick up his mail ….

Feeding into Tabb's worries are the activists at the New York Environmental Law and Justice Project who supposedly measured levels of asbestos in an air vent in his apartment building hallway to be 555 times the "suggested level of asbestos." Other samples from a bathroom vent supposedly showed "dangerous levels of fiberglass."

The city disputes the project's measurements. But even assuming that the measurements are valid — and it's a big assumption — so what?

Asbestos and fiberglass are not known to cause asthma. ….

The Uniformed Firefighters Association estimates that about one-third of its 9,000 members suffer from "World Trade Center cough." One must wonder, though, how many of these men are simply suffering from the flu-related symptoms"[/ex](7)

Obvious Part, Fox News is right, Asbestos and Fiber Glass could never cause such symptoms. Funny part, they just told us the symptoms that perfectly fit the description of dust/fumes from Molten Iron. Why would that be funny? Well lets take a look at where Molten Iron could come from, if it was at the WTC scene.


Two words for where Molten Iron would appear, Thermite-Reactions.

[ex]
"since thermite produces molten iron at yellow-to-white hot temperatures. The reader may wish to compare the dripping molten metal observed on the corner of the South Tower just before its collapse with the dripping molten metal from known thermite reactions: http://www.checktheevidence.com/911/Thermite2.htm . "[/ex]
(8), (9)
As we can see, Thermite Reactions produce Molten Iron and Aluminum Oxide. This Molten Iron would have to have a great abundance to cause such massive side effects though. Well try to imagine the amount of Thermite charges you would have to use to take down 80 to 90 stories of building, thus flattening the WTC buildings 1 and 2.


In conclusion, we see the health side effects correspond directly with dust and flumes from Molten Iron. In which Molten Iron just so happens to be produced by Thermite Reactions which would be used in demolition jobs to knock out steel in buildings. What we are seeing now is the fact that even though all the physical evidence of debris from The World Trade Centers was removed, we still have one form of evidence. We thought that all the evidence was carried away, never investigated, and forever lost. We have a form of evidence though, Health side effects. These health side effects have shown us that a byproduct of a material used in demolition jobs causes the same health side effects that they experienced that day.
fartmonkey65
What are you trying to imply.
GrimReaper797
reading the conclusion you really cant see it?
molten iron side effects, molten iron is created by thermite charges used in demolition. these side effects were specifically found at the WTC attacks and the Indoor dust side effects also point at molten iron. connect the dots
Stellar
He's implying that thermite bombs would have been placed along the structure to weaken it to the point of collapse. Why? I dont know. It is extremely unlikely for a number of reasons... 1, the plane would have to fly into the floor where the bombs were planted, without setting them off too soon. 2. How could they be planted without people noticing? 3. A very good way to weaken the structure is to fly a plane into it, taking out the support!
GrimReaper797
its not my job to show you every possible way these explosives got there. im showing you that there is evidence that something was cause health effects which Concrete, Paper, Glass Fiber, and Gypsum doesn't cause. Gypsum was most likely until more side effects came into play which Gypsum doesn't cause. Its not my job to answer how they got in there, thats research for you to do.
fartmonkey65
QUOTE(GrimReaper797 @ Apr 14 2006, 04:43 PM) [snapback]1147745[/snapback]

its not my job to show you every possible way these explosives got there. im showing you that there is evidence that something was cause health effects which Concrete, Paper, Glass Fiber, and Gypsum doesn't cause. Gypsum was most likely until more side effects came into play which Gypsum doesn't cause. Its not my job to answer how they got in there, thats research for you to do.

You know seriously i'm beginning to wonder if you want to believe this.
GrimReaper797
its not about what i want to believe. its about the facts im presenting you. it doesnt matter what i believe. It doesnt matter if i believe the towers came down by thermite charges or not, im merely showing you that molten iron, which evidently comes from thermite charges, fits a perfect description of side effects on health.

anyway if you really want to know it would be pretty easy to not notice thermite explosives in small amounts since it doesnt exactly stand out. do research on what thermite charges and reactions are then come back. im not going to do all the research for you, people arent suppose to be spoonfed ALL the information they ever get in their lives. every once in awhile you gotta do a thing called research
fartmonkey65
QUOTE(GrimReaper797 @ Apr 14 2006, 07:24 PM) [snapback]1147944[/snapback]

its not about what i want to believe. its about the facts im presenting you. it doesnt matter what i believe. It doesnt matter if i believe the towers came down by thermite charges or not, im merely showing you that molten iron, which evidently comes from thermite charges, fits a perfect description of side effects on health.

anyway if you really want to know it would be pretty easy to not notice thermite explosives in small amounts since it doesnt exactly stand out. do research on what thermite charges and reactions are then come back. im not going to do all the research for you, people arent suppose to be spoonfed ALL the information they ever get in their lives. every once in awhile you gotta do a thing called research

w00t.gif Yea and once and a while you gotta use a little thing i like to call common sense. Bush is a fine man. He is not satan. w00t.gif no offense.
aquatus1
QUOTE(GrimReaper797 @ Apr 15 2006, 12:24 AM) [snapback]1147944[/snapback]

its not about what i want to believe. its about the facts im presenting you. it doesnt matter what i believe. It doesnt matter if i believe the towers came down by thermite charges or not, im merely showing you that molten iron, which evidently comes from thermite charges, fits a perfect description of side effects on health.

anyway if you really want to know it would be pretty easy to not notice thermite explosives in small amounts since it doesnt exactly stand out. do research on what thermite charges and reactions are then come back. im not going to do all the research for you, people arent suppose to be spoonfed ALL the information they ever get in their lives. every once in awhile you gotta do a thing called research


Actually, no, what needs to happen here is that you need to do the research. You need to research exactly how much thermite would be needed to create pools of molten metal. You need to research how long the heat from these thermite charges lasts. You need to know how much melt will be produced from these charges. You need to understand that research is a lot more than simply saying "thermite melts steel, therefore thermite must have been used at te WTC."

Here's something to help you get started: Thermite used in demolitions is used only in shaped charges. In other words, the amount is precisely custom fitted to the individual beam it is going to be used on, and it is designed for the sole purpose of creating a specific cut. Thermite charges are not used in demolition like explosives; one does not wrap thermite around a column and expect a controlled demolition. The shaped thermite charge will make a cut anywhere from one inch to several inches to weaken or sever the beam, and will be used up in the process. The only melted steel that will remain is the little bit that didn't get evaporated in the blast. That steel will solidify fairly quickly, due to the lack of a continous heat source (thermite is intense, not enduring).

The melted steel in the WTC did not come from structural beam getting melted. The temperature wasn't high enough to melt the steel, nor would it be possible to place sufficient amounts of thermite to melt the quantities of steel we are talking about, and finally, the thermite would not have even melted that quantity unless a huge pile of steel was stacked up and the thermite placed on top of it to burn it's way to the bottom.
GrimReaper797
apparently you didnt read what i said. i didnt mention anything like "well thermite melts steel so thermite must have been used in a demolition of the WTC" in fact my article didnt deal with that at all. if you want to find that out read the Jones paper.
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

im merely supporting that a large amount would have been used because of the health effects i was talking about. i know what thermite explosive are and how they are made and exactly what will happen. im not supporting anything about pools of molten metal, that was never part of my article. i also never mentioned anything about how long thermite charges needed to last, it had nothing to do with the reaction in my article, it had to do with the byproducts of the reaction.

i dont need you to tell me about thermite, ive already done that research. and it really doesnt make any difference about how its made and how you make it. what matters "in my article" is the health effects of the byproducts and dust/fumes at the WTC. i eliminated what they say caused the effects.

as you know these pools were found underground, thus insulated. molten iron and melted steel are both molten metals so both would be found in pools, and appear to be the same temperature. your acting as those after the thermite reaction is done there are no byproducts.

but im guessing there is an alternate explaination for the molten metals and the fires that lasted for at least 21 days?
aquatus1
QUOTE(GrimReaper797 @ Apr 17 2006, 01:46 AM) [snapback]1150556[/snapback]

apparently you didnt read what i said. i didnt mention anything like "well thermite melts steel so thermite must have been used in a demolition of the WTC" in fact my article didnt deal with that at all. if you want to find that out read the Jones paper.


You didn't?
QUOTE
reading the conclusion you really cant see it?
molten iron side effects, molten iron is created by thermite charges used in demolition. these side effects were specifically found at the WTC attacks and the Indoor dust side effects also point at molten iron. connect the dots


I'm seeing "side-effects', I'm seeing thermite melts iron (in demolitions), I'm seeing 'therefore thermite must have been used in a demolition that resulted in moleten steel that resulted in side-effect.

Or did you mean that there might just happen to have been an enormous amount of thermite just kind of sitting on top of a huge pile of metal for some obscure reason?

QUOTE
im merely supporting that a large amount would have been used because of the health effects i was talking about. i know what thermite explosive are and how they are made and exactly what will happen. im not supporting anything about pools of molten metal, that was never part of my article. i also never mentioned anything about how long thermite charges needed to last, it had nothing to do with the reaction in my article, it had to do with the byproducts of the reaction.


It has everything to do with your article. If you are claiming that the side-effects are coming from molten iron, you have to be able to show that there was a sufficient quantity of molten iron present to create the side-effect. If you propose thermite as a source of the molten iron, you have to be able to show that it was feasible for that large amount of thermite to be present. If you propose that thermite created the amount of melted steel that would be needed to cause the side-effect you claim, then you must show a sort of scenario in which the cause might have been present.

QUOTE
i dont need you to tell me about thermite, ive already done that research. and it really doesnt make any difference about how its made and how you make it. what matters "in my article" is the health effects of the byproducts and dust/fumes at the WTC. i eliminated what they say caused the effects.


But you substituted a cause without...well, cause. You can't prove something by elimination unless you first prove that what you are proposing exists as a factor. It's like the creationism argument. You can't prove that creationism is correct by proving that evolution is incorrect. You must first be able to show that creationism is a possible answer.

If you have A, B, or C, as possible answers, you can make a go at process of elimination. You can't just decide to throw in option D without first being able to prove that it is as valid as options A, B, or C.

QUOTE
as you know these pools were found underground, thus insulated. molten iron and melted steel are both molten metals so both would be found in pools, and appear to be the same temperature. your acting as those after the thermite reaction is done there are no byproducts.


I already talked about the by-products, and if you are as familiar with them as you claim, you should know about them as well. Demolition thermite leaves very little slag; most evaporate in the blast, and only a minor amount, quickly solidified, remains. The only way to create molten steel with thermite is to use regular thermite (not demolition charges) on top of a pile of steel, and allow it to burn through.

QUOTE
but im guessing there is an alternate explaination for the molten metals and the fires that lasted for at least 21 days?


There certainly is, but then, this doesn't have anything to do with your article, does it? If it did, you should have an idea of the quantity of thermite needed to create heat for 21 days.
Eggy
QUOTE(GrimReaper797 @ Apr 14 2006, 09:43 PM) [snapback]1147745[/snapback]

its not my job to show you every possible way these explosives got there. im showing you that there is evidence that something was cause health effects which Concrete, Paper, Glass Fiber, and Gypsum doesn't cause. Gypsum was most likely until more side effects came into play which Gypsum doesn't cause. Its not my job to answer how they got in there, thats research for you to do.


Thermite is not an explosive..its an incendiary.

Your post was very deceptive using bits and pieces from various sources and then blending in your own conclusions of the observations. You really stretched the gum thin in order to stick it all together. There were very many other substances besides concrete, paper,glass fiber and gypsum that people were exposed to at ground zero...and you know that. The thermite angle is just bogus.
robbo1331
Sh*t the bed another smoking gun no.gif
xiando
QUOTE(GrimReaper797 @ Apr 14 2006, 09:18 PM) [snapback]1147709[/snapback]

This article was made by me. I came up with the original idea, and i found all the references, connected all the dots. This article was originally posted on abovetopsecret. I have sent it to Scholars for 9/11 Truth Movement. Enjoy.


Thanks for a great article. However, there is one thing you should know. "Abovetopsecret" has nothing to do with the truth and everything to do with DISINFORMATION. So do not expect anything with important truth will be published there, the site is mostly half-truths mixed with deliberate disinformation. Follow the money and you'll find that is true. And it is not unique, the Pentagon budget for disinformation and psyops is HUGE (we're talking millions).

The Scholars for 9/11 Truth Movement on the other hand looks like good and honest people doing good and, more importantly, honest research.

Not that research is that improtant anymore. I do find it great that Scholars for 9/11 Truth Movement are showing that people who have long education know the truth and find it important to do real research and document the event, so all credit to them. But...

The CONTROLLED DEMOLITION of the WTC buildings is really clear. It doesn't really matter exactly what kind of explosives is used (It IS excellent that someone does research on it, even so). The important thing is to understand and acecpt that seven laws of physics clearly show it was CONTROLLED DEMOLITION. It is equally important to understand that it has been known by ALL WESTERN (NATO) GOVERNMENTS (and most state and corporate media) for MANY YEARS NOW and all "allied" powers ARE DELIBERATELY LYING ABOUT THE DEMOLITION OF THE WTC BUILDINGS.

Numerous documentaries on this issue have been on my TV Torrent website torrentchannel.com - and other such sites - a very long time. ..

It really boils down to this:

* It CAN be proved that it was controlled demolition that brought down WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7.
* It's a long long time since Stanley Hilton filed a suit against Bush and the Bush administration and said he has evidence that Bush personally signed the order to execute 9/11. The lawsuit has been blocked.
* The suit IS BEING BLOCKED and it now seems clear it will get nowhere.
* View the video at http://pentagonstrike.co.uk/ and remember that it is OLD. The best of the 9/11 documentaries on torrentchannel.com are from 2004. This is something you really should keep in mind when doing research on 9/11, it's not like someone found out it was an inside job last week - websites on this topic appeared days after the attack.

The facts regarding 911 ARE CLEAR. There's no more point of "look, another smoking gun". It basically boils down to this: The Bush-regime are not about to say "oh, we did some horrible mistakes" and take their hats and go. The only way to get justice for 9/11 is to violently overtrow the US Government. I know this may should like a strange thing to say, but if you do basic research on 9/11 you'll find that the evidence is overwhelming and that if the USA still was anything even close to a free and democratic country, the whole Bush-administration would be behind bars a long, long time ago..
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