I don't get you guys. Why do you NOT believe in aliens. Just wondering...

They claim there is not enough evidence to back it. That they've seen anyways.

the United States is crawling with aliens.... it's the ET's that are hard to prove

I don't believe (think something is real via faith) in very much. I think there is a very good possibility that there is other life in the universe, but I don't see any irrefutable evidence that Earth has been visited by any such ET life. Until there's irrefutable evidence, I only consider ET life to be a possibility...not a proven reality. What motivates other skeptics, I don't know, but that's my point of view.

thing that pisses me off most is when skeptics say theres no such thing as aliens cuz theres like no proof yet they believe in god

The only proof someone needs is to look out side and then look up at the stars, there are billions of stars.

~Thanato

Amen.

Well they would consider the bible to be "proof", yet they don't acknowledge documented proof of alien existence...

I believe there are many UFO references IN the Bible.

*

Yes, in one cryptic form or another...

But I do agree.

ya cant really blame them. there is no irrefutable evidence that such things actually do exist. if there were no skeptics of any kind, this world would be very messed up, even more so than it is now lol

are there any skeptics here that follow a religeon and believe in God?

- - Conspiracy

- - Psychokinesis. Thanks for pointing it out

So the Bible is worthy enough to be evidence for God? eh ? but just reject the MASSIVE AMOUNT OF DOCUMENTED PROOF FOR ALIENS?? THE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE HAD TO GO THROUGH TRAUMA IN BEING INVOLVED WITH EXPERIENCES WITH THEM? THE DATA ANALYSIS OF IMPLANTS? THE SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS OF CROPS THAT HAVE BEEN MANIPULATED TO FORM COMPLEX ((MEANINGFUL)) PATTERNS OVER NIGHT IN WILTSHIRE EVERY SINGLE YEAR!!?!? THE FACT THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS ARCHIVES AND ARCHIVES OF FILES REGARDING THIS PHENOMENA (IF THEY ARE NOT VISITING US THEN WHY DO THEY TAKE THIS MATTER SO SERIOUSLY BEHIND OUR BACKS?))... THE ARCHEOLOGICAL FINDINGS THAT HAVE BEEN FOUND THROUGHOUT AFRICA? ..

Why do skeptics not weigh all this up. They always come up with a conclusion that it is fake or can not be solved and leave it alone. Never take the EVIDENCE that can not be proven false seriously, I wonder why.


- whipnet
I wonder why we have not taken the passages from the bible that CLEARLY describe these entities in their own theological perception of angels. many people have pointed out that angels are infact EBE's that have been with us throughout history, I wonder why they are now so hidden away from us. Maybe its because it all comes down to the secret dark Agenda behind Dulce Base and the government's involvement in it.

I will not get into debating my personal religious beliefs here. However, I will tell you where I stand in this regard. I do not believe the Bible is the word of God. I believe the Bible was written by men, as all religious texts were. One can not definitively prove the existence of any God or Gods. However, that said, I have lived long enough, and experienced enough to weigh in at the position (as first presented by Thomas Huxley) as an Agnostic Theist. Most of what I speculate about God would likely be considered as Scientifc Panthesim with Buddhist tendencies. I do not profess that I have any proof for my religious thoughts, nor do I characterize any religious speculation as *reality* above and beyond my personal gestalt.

Now, if what you are saying is that you believe ET to be somehow *God like* in nature, and that this belief serves as your personal religion....then there's no need for you to seek evidence, or crave proof. Be advised, though, that those who do not share you religious beliefs will not be swayed by this type of faith based argument.

Lol, Lilly, you have got the wrong impression. I was simply pointing out the way Aliens have been interpreted as Angels in past history by using the Bible as an example.

I do not personally believe Aliens are God-like, however I think based upon The Bible and other sources, a majority of people interpreted these beings as angels, and others as David Icke has pointed out were accepted as 'Gods'. This can be seen in Egyptian history and most interestingly from the Aztecs.

I am a Muslim

Our fascination with life on other worlds is an extension of our interest in life on Earth. Animal Planet, National Geographic, and zoos are all reflections of our curiosity about other forms of life. Much of that curiosity is simply a primeval, hard-wired interest in things we could eat, and things that might eat us. After all, life is highly competitive, and it pays to know the competition.

So curiosity about extraterrestrial life is both understandable and long-standing. Today, many of the efforts to find DNA’s alien equivalents focus on distant locales; for example, the use of space-borne telescopes to sort through the spectra of extrasolar worlds, looking for atmospheric gases that would be evidence of biology.The day we find life,bacteria or more,is the day we can say for sure that there is life out there,and that the Earth wasnt just a "once in a universe fluke".

The idea of looking for proximate protoplasm is old. In the nineteenth century, Mars, Venus, and even the pulverized, dusty crust of the moon were all considered possible loci for life. Such optimism soured in the early space age, when probes revealed Mars’ dry, ultraviolet-stung surface and Venus’ autoclave temperatures (the moon had long been out of play). By the 1980s, many scientists believed that the worlds beyond our own were just inanimate balls of rock, whirling silently about an indifferent Sun.

That pessimism now seems, if not quite quaint, at least questionable. The number of nearby worlds where biology might arise is on the uptick.

The bald truth is that we still haven’t found a single shred of extraterrestrial life. But it’s remarkable, and heartening in a perverse kind of way, that the places worth searching now greatly exceed our abilities to do so. There’s plenty of frontier left, even nearby.

Oh i believe there is other life elsewhere.

But to say we would be of any intrest to intelligent life is purely thinking too high of human kind. as to "not enough proof" statement there is no concrete proof presented if there was people would listen they believe what there told if they are given real proof.


This is my questions to the belivers.
without using links or "eyewitness" statements tell me what makes YOU personally so sure ETs have visited earth?

That's the thing, I wouldn't be sure without pictures or videotaped proof. That's all I have right now, short of actually seeing an alien/UFO, which I haven't...

I'm not sure what you mean by concrete proof. In absolute terms you know nothing unless you personally observe it. Most of the "facts" that you "know" were learned from other peoples statements. You just choose to believe some and reject others. So in absolute terms you know very little.

If you discount other peoples experience what is left. Only your experience. Do you limit your beliefs to your own personal experience.

Until you have first hand experience all you will ever get is evidence. If you take a look around you should find the evidence is overwhelming.

No one can give you proof of anything over the internet. However a lot of people here can show you strong evidence.

I find it unusual that the people who in the Spirituality/Skepticism forums when arguing against the existence of god etc use very similar arguments to those arguing against aliens. ie lack of proof, personal experience etc.

But when these are brought up in the UFO/ET Forum it is looked at reasonably openly ie a free discussion but in the Spirituality forum the sugestion that the Bible is less then perfect proof can result in some Christian (of which i am not) abusing a person and denying the persons point incredibably irrationally. using the Bible to prove that the Bible is true for instance.

At least in the UFO/ET forum it is discussed reasonably rationally



WHy not. When we find a new species of animal we study it. why should it be different for an alien

One reason, I'm sure, is because there is absolutely no solid proof to back up the existence of intelligent alien life. That's enough to make any person skeptical I think.

There is no solid proof that there atoms exist. there is no solid proof for hundreds of mathematical problems that people take for granted. Most importantly there is no "Solid proof" and not even very much circumstantial evidence that god exists but that stops few people from shouting their belief often in ways designed to affect, influence and annoy as many people as possible

The only possible way to know is to see the hard evidence for yourself.
Know as in they exist in objective reality; providing also you know the difference between 'know' 'belief' and 'speculation'

Aliens from other worlds. Nice idea, means we are not alone. and i don't want to be alone.
Do you mean technologically advanced aliens or amoeba -like?

If you mean Aliens visiting Earth as in sci-fi movies?

Hmmm, it seems that there are thousands of sightings of UFO's ghosts goblins and gods and this all adds up to proof. This proof is considered to be compound proof , ie that one sighting on top of another one on top of another one somehow makes it true because they are recorded and begin to gain weight. Why don't we record non-sightings of UFOs then we can weigh both sides of the evidence. I didn't see an alien today so that adds weight to the argument they don't exist.
Why is it when someone says they did see a ufo it adds to the weight of evidence and when we do not see aliens it does not get recorded and added to the evidence?

Remember long time ago when people said the world was flat, because if you looked out the window you could see it was flat..! Well it's just the same again with alien visitation..! Seeing is believing for the ones who are truely blind....!

Don't you know.."A flying saucer has too land on the lawn of the White house and emit some empty cosmic pototoe chip wrappers as refutable evidence"..!
They will never admit to the truth as long as they keep their pig headed ignoratus heir about themselves..!

Ah, a fellow traveller.

very true. good point rapid

I don't believe in god. Neither do I believe in ET's. Think about what you write before you post it.
Aliens have become gods for many believers. A new religion. Substituting one fable with another.

Aliens work on the lawns near my house.
Extraterrestrials are a theory that people believe in.
Jesus and God are theories that people believe in.

Case In Point !

Theres a lot of stuff that doesn't have enough evidence to back it up, but if you believe something strong enough, you don't need evidence !

Obviously you are oblivious to the signs that are everywhere, in the media, in books, in movies, all over the place. Where do these ideas come from if not something that has been around or has been seen? People don't make God up, they don't make Aliens up, such an elaborate hoax throughout the world ? God is the reason people are fighting wars. Holy wars and Jihads and all that. Anyone who thinks aliens are gods, is a different story, they're wackos.

You are using faith to believe in aliens. Your god is an alien. People will believe in anything that makes them feel there is more to life then the norm.

HAHA ! ! Ok, so anyone who believes in a God, is an alien worshipper, ok, tell that to the pope lol

I think it somewhat cowardly to try to bring religion into every battle.
I have seen Werewolves, Vampires and now, this aliens trying to drag the religious debate into this arena because people seem to feel that by rubbishing religion,they have gained some ground with their weak argument. Pretty low way to gain self esteem or bolster ones pont of view IMO.

Regardless of ones view of the Bible, it does not need enter any debate such as this, unless one is purposely trying to aggravate and fuel flame wars. Seriously, to compare the two is ridiculous.

I see many feel that the Bible as a blind stupid way of stumbling through life and finding it incredible that one could take a seconds notice of such a fantastical document written by men (narrated by God, but we gloss over that fact all the time don't we) and the old argument of Chinese Whispers...........

but have no problem with mini humans racing through a park at lunch, or taking a seconds stock in charlatans as mentioned above (I saw many members in a thread in here looking rather stupid having believed this guy, till he was caught out), alien abductions that seem to be mainly comprised mostly of anal experiments (sounds like a cry for help to me, and geezz, how many butts can one poke before vomiting - I mean really, after 60 year of butt poking, they should have enough evidence by now shouldn't they? what could they possibly learn after all this time up our rear ends? Ask us, we will tell, no need to get sexually abusive!!)) and huge underground bases drilled in pure granite, connected underground worldwide by tunnels with trains that move many times the speed of sound all paid for with black budgets hidden from the taxpayers, meetings with the presidents and aliens - yet after 60 or so years, and millions of sightings, not one piece of evidence? Not one irrefutable picture? Not one single video? Just testimony that can be simply explained almost immediately in a large percentage of cases? (think this covers the reason why most remain skeptical too)
Plenty of theories though. Not one qualified person or train of rational thought amongst them. Many physically impossible even, but 'believers' are sure that there is some way, cause 'they reckon'

"Anything is possible" (Damn that stupid line irks me, I find it even more maddeing that people still quote it)

To call one realistic over the other is entirely hypocritical, and therefore, anyone making such a stupid comparison not only show inappropriate knowledge of the subjects, but voids their own argument.

Having faith in the way one has been brought up, or a personal path to enlightenment has nothing do with gathering evidence for recent sightings of people, who in many cases, are purely out to dupe their fellow man. Good old Yaweh (that was the name of that freak that summond Extraterrestrial craft and life? now known to be weather ballons....)

And Jesus was not a theory, texts exist that document his life. Many in fact, and non-religious at that. Wether you believe he is a God or not, he did exist, that much we do know. What do we know of aliens? All speculation.

To say we are alone is equally ridiculous. Anyone who looks at the sky can see that. Shame that should one use the same analogy in a religious context in regard to say.... a Sunset, you spark debate and are baranded a religious nut. I guess the one thing UFO believers and religious people share is that they are persecuted for their beliefs. Shame you do not support one another, instead of taking an offensive stance using religion as your bait to fuel a losing argument.
Is there extraterrestrial life on this planet? Maybe, I think unlikely. No, I'm wrong? OK, show me undeniable proof, I'm a big boy, I can sorry, I was wrong. Doubt I am going to have to somehow....
Does life on other planets exist? Most definitely.

People want to believe in Aliens, it's cool. Religion has become 'not so cool', so people are tending to go for thae Alien. Well, all of you who do love em so much, I wanna see you face when the first one makes contact, and it turns out to be that one fron the Sigorney Weaver movies. They are the only ones that are coming here you know.

And - it does not matter how much one believes in something, it will not make it true, or come true, no matter how much belief you carry. You do need evidence if you expect another thinking person to believe you.

Now get out there and get something convincing instead of wasting resources on such a time wasting hypothetical debate and trying to make your candle burn brighter by blowing out someone elses.

All you're doing is supporting the belief in faith, not fact. Fortunately, faith just isn't good enough for some people.

It is essential to keep a skeptical state of mind when dealing with a subject such as this... It is very easy to get caught up in the midst of all the fantastical stories that are produced, but it is even easier to forget the evidence that does exist, simply because the main point of view of the skeptics is "there is no evidence"... Yup "there is no evidence", when you sit at your computer and expect a headline that reads "Alien UFO lands on white house lawn". There is plenty of evidence. Ever tried looking in the national archives? Or maybe actually talked to some people (other than on the internet) about their experiences or knowledge on the subject? No? Try it. Yes? Good.

I always have my skeptical side ready to attack, but I never let it cloud my judgement.
I always have my "other" side ready to take things in, but I never let that cloud my judgement.

If you wish to remain skeptic, because you refuse to do some work, then maybe you shouldn't even be involved in this stuff...

Now, with that said, I COMPLETELY understand where skepticism comes from, obviously. I'm sure that just about everyone here would agree, I'm pretty damned logical, and don't just believe everything I hear. I don't have a problem with people who don't believe. I have a problem with people who don't believe, yet refuse to let evidence do its part...

To tell you the truth, I actually respect the wisdom that some of these skeptics maintain... There are a few prime examples of this wisdom and wit on this forum, and I'm sure you know who I'm talking about. I respect that they haven't been "persuaded" (so to speak), yet are still eager to learn all they can on the subject, and are willing to change their views with the appropriate evidence... That, Mind Freak likes.

Not ALL believers believe that aliens have visited Earth. But I know for sure that aliens do exist. Just because some say they believe in aliens doesn't mean they think that aliens have visited Earth abducting humans...

Well, I try not to believe in things that I don't have really good evidence for. However, there are a great many things that we simply have to assign a probability to (ie, an educated guess, if you will). Alien life somewhere else in the Universe, almost a sure thing. Alien life somewhere else in the galaxy, still fairly high. Advanced, intelligent life in our galaxy, lower, but still somewhat favorable. Advanced, intelligent life that has managed to find their way to our little planet, not likely, but not impossible. I haven't seen any irrefutable evidence for visitation...I like to, though! If irrefutable evidence were to come forth, I wouldn't have any problem accepting it.

Now, that's my guess about all this. If one were to ask what we know for sure about alien life, then I'd have to say, "We just don't know".

dude, so the universe is never ending, it just keeps going and going and going, filled with galaxies upon galaxies, and you only believe that this is the only planet with life on it. thats a bit bluddy selfish isnt it.

Well I personally think NASA has been pulling our leash for quite some time. It's alot easier to make people believe that space is just a wasteland of empty planets and solar systems, rather than an actual universe with life. A little cut and paste here and there.

But i do remember an astronaut that was fearing for his life as a ship the size of a small city (i think those were his words) was coming straight at him while he was doing some work outside of the ship...and of course when he started to lose his composure he was told to switch over. (A different radio frequency i'm guessing.)

I don't think we will really know anything until a civilian gets to ride into space and isn't somehow tied with the government or NASA. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Even though people would probably just think they went crazy while in space.

I guess we'll find out when the world goes kaplooey.

Couldn't agree more. To think we are the only intelligent life in the universe is both selfish and foolish.

Another thing that sceptics claim is that intelligent aliens would not be interested in us. Why not. When the Spanisah were colonising the world they were interested enough to look at the lands that they were raping and pillaging over.

In my opinion one of the most important parts of intelligence is that of curiosity. If we were advanced enough to travel to our nearest neighbors i am sure we would at least stop in to study them on the way past. And the fact that they have not shown themselves completely may be their attempt at preseration. Perhaps they are like todays treehugging greenies and don't like tampering in the lives of primitive animals (as we might appear to them)

It's not that we don't believe in aliens, per se; I'd wager that most of the skeptics here probably think that some form of extraterrestrial life exists out there in the universe.

It's just that the majority of skeptics don't believe in UFOs, or the reports of alien visitations, usually from dubious or lacking evidence.

Don't believe in UFO's? That's like not believing in air... It's like not believing in The Eiffel Tower...
Unidentified
Flying
Object
If you see something flying in the sky, and you can't identify it, guess what, it's a UFO.
Now, I am very aware that extraterrestrials are often associated with UFOs, for obvious reasons. But there is no "believing" in them. There is just accepting them as reality. They are real, and they are everywhere. Not neccesarily alien "UFOs", but unidentified flying objects.

The Universe DOES have an end

I believe there is life out there...But the life I see is microbial and/or simple life (from worms to chordates).

There is a possibility that intelligent life does exist..but the universe is so vast that I DO NOT BELIEVE that aliens visited earth. Its harder than trying to find a single peculiar protist in all of the earth's oceans.

Is there life out there? Yes.
Has it ever visited earth? No.

Thankyou.

Don't speak in absolutes... There is evidence, and millions of people that would roast you in a debate about what you just said. I'm not saying if I believe they have visited or not, but to sound so sure of yourself all the time, it makes you look kinda dumb...

Oh, the millions of hoaxers and such? I have not seen evidene that is even worth a glance!


Take into account the size of the universe...You will see what I mean..

I have taken into consideration the size of the universe, as well as the age of the universe. There is PLENTY of time for millions, even billions (probably more) of civilizations to far surpass the level of technology we see in our world today.

Will they get here?:
Using our currently available technology, hell no.

Using technology hundreds, let alone millions of years ahead of us, you better believe it.



As far as all of the hoaxers out there, of course, there are plenty. Not everyone is a hoaxer, just cause they say something that is considered "outragous" by you... Instead of taking a glance at something every once in a while, and posting like you know everything, try actually looking into it...