The Concept of a Single God is a fairly new one, appearing in mass majority in the past 2 thousand years.

Now lets say for a moment that there is a Heaven and a Hell. Now do we have to belive in a god to go to heaven? Because there are alot of people who belive in a God and kill in the name of said god, in all reilgons, mainly Islam and Christianity.

Now if there is a heaven and a hell and the only way to get into heaven is to belive in god and be on of the Jones's then I must say that this god is a very corrupt being.

~Thanato

If you had to believe in God to get to heaven than according to that, religions would have to allow demons and Satan himself in as they all believe in God.

As for my opinion I do not think belief has anything to do with where you go, not even partially. Faith is believing what you can't see or touch, love is greater, even if one were to look in the bible it pronounces love greater than faith. But I don't look in the bible anyway I look in my heart and experiences.

Hypothetically speaking...if the Christian god does exist - and if it's a strict policy that strong belief in him is the only way into his "kingdom"...

Well, I wouldn't call him corrupt...I'd call him conceited.

Good question Thanato, you have hit the nail on the head.
The problem of monotheism!

I would say that we can still believe in God and not be apart of a religion. I stopped believeing in religion I suppose when I began to think about the religions that have come before christianity and the other modern religions. I came to the thought that all religions are various interpretations of the same thing. When you look at all the different religions there are pieces that are common in all of them, never minding the various names. I would say if your unsure to believe in a higher power and leave it at that. Think of all religions as parts of one big one and go from there.

No ....no one has to really believe in god....its a choice you make

Maybe we should rename this thread "DO we have to believe in the CHristian GOd". You're opening post really only describes that particular God. It so happens that I believe in that one, but there are many who do not.


But to answer the question - If you don't want to believe in God or gods or higher beings, that's your choice. In the meatime, I'm going to give my opinion on the matter, which is believing in GOd has nothing to do with entering heaven. Even the demons believe in God, yet that belief does nothing for them (James 2:19). It takes more than belief..... much more. Actions speak louder than words - Love one another, that's a start.

Regards, PA

PA if you read the rest of his post he mentions other faiths that believe in their own God and not just the christian one....when he said those that kill in the name of their god...think about it

I know he mentioned other Faiths, but the focus of his post (as I read it) was on Heaven and Hell - entirely Christian concepts.

Other faiths believe in their own version of heaven and hell...dont they?

Yes.. even in this material world heaven and hell is there.. for a rich person... peace of mind is heaven.. for a poor.. money is heaven.. why two different people or religion describe their heaven different.. their thinking is different.. they see heaven in different angle.. even though angel is one.. whatever lacking with a person... that become is desire.. if he knows the truth.. then is presence will become hevean.. than is future and past.

Quote "Now lets say for a moment that there is a Heaven and a Hell. Now do we have to belive in a god to go to heaven? Because there are alot of people who belive in a God and kill in the name of said god, in all religions, mainly Islam and Christianity".

Re: Islam, If you have a sincere belief in something ie, kill for your religion, how can it be wrong to defend your god? So we must go to heaven. By the way Hell, the real fiery stuff, is reserved for infidels, those who were a bit deaf and didn't quite hear the message will be judged at the appropriate time.
So we don't have to believe to go to heaven but it helps!

When people suggest that the monotheistic religions are the same really, it is not quite that way. The gods of Judaism and Islam are more a kind of remote impersonal figure not your hands-on type if you like. The Christian god is all love and we can have a cosy chat, he is our friend. In Islam we bow down and prostrate ourselves in front of this awesome power.

For me they are not all the same. The idea of a supreme being has been appropriated by various groups as their own. I am totally against organised religion in any way shape or form. But supreme beings, as they don't exist, are fine by me.

This I gotta see LOL j/k

God believes in us...doesnt that reserve us the right to believe in him? Yeah we have free will, we can do what we want in life...some choose to worship God and some dont. I believe in God because he believes in me and i respect that. I think the least i can do for God is acknowledge him and thank him...not only do i have faith in God...but he has faith in me...through the free will he given me...to do good deeds, to love, to care, to learn, to excel and to succeed as a human being...I made the choice to believe in him and its a mutual feeling of love and trust. I dont have to believe in God - but i choose to.

Yes... in this forest both Non-veg and veg exist.. veg says non veg is bad... non-veg says veg is waste..

veg says killing is very bad.. but unkowningly they are killing the plants.. knowingly or unkowningly everyone killing for their living... just to fullfill our hunger(desire)

loving yourself make you non veg
loving everyone make you veg..
once you lead a veg life then you will not exist any more here.

But why do you need god in order to be human? If we kill him off, and have to stand on our own two feet and not use god as a crutch, do you think the world will become a bad place because people like your good self will suddenly not have a mutual feeling of trust and love?

SEARCHER 7 - I'm curious. Could you expand on exactly what you mean when you say "use god as a crutch"?

You can be a human and not believe in a God of course...yet these characteristics influence me and i believe that if one thing can influence a person to be BETTER then why not believe in it? Life is beautiful...Life is wonderful and amazing, i always say "Thank You" when i recieved a Gift and the gift of life is the greatest gift ever given to me.

Why would we kill God off? God is personal so he cannot be "killed" im afraid. We already stand on our own two feet- and i dont use God as a crutch. The world wont be a bad place without God...but i know im a better person with God. I wont get detailed but Gods come into my life in a VERY clear way and theres no way im going to turn my back on him for what he did to me.

You wouldnt understand, and thats okay...Yet if one acknowledges God he will put his faith in you...so the "faithless" find God.

When you believe in someone you believe in the same things things that they believe, have the same values.

You have to claim to believe in the Constitution and the laws of the United States to become a citizen, join as a member, and it is done by choice. To some who love the USA life anywhere else would be like hell. Many feel that way about there home nations.

Kingdom is a type of government.

-Belief in God isn't the only requirement for getting into heaven. That's why demons and the like aren't there. They're friggin' demons! There are other things you gotta do, or follow to get in.
-Living as veg(etarian, right?) doesn't only kill plants; Field mice, voles, snakes, birds, all are under siege when the harvest comes. The machines used to get plants often trample whatever animal life is in the field at the time.
-How can you say we haveta believe in God just because He believes in us...? I don't get that.
-Proof is needed. Actual, physical proof. Not so-called miracles, or Virgins in Tortillas. Not medical oddities. Concrete proof. But with proof comes knowledge. With knowledge, faith leaves. And faith is something that religion relies on. So can we ever really have proof?

If He's putting faith in you, He's leaving it to you to get out of your troubles. He's not gonna help you at all. He just says,
"Yeah!! You can do it if you put your mind to it!! Think happy thoughts!"

In the structuring of civilizatiions that is called Social Capitol.
Without any social capitol civilizations wither and die.
Thinking that any nation does not need social capitol is like thinking a chair has no need for its legs. It becomes useless without it.

Ramster you were doing really well until the fideism cut in. why kill god off? because the god idea has stopped us humans moving on together. If you have a personal god then it cannot be part of all of us. This causes conflict and allows people to hide with their god from things that are bad about this world." God has a reason for all the bad things but he will keep me safe", personal gods are selfish.

-How can you say we haveta believe in God just because He believes in us...? I don't get that.

-Proof is needed. Actual, physical proof. Not so-called miracles, or Virgins in Tortillas. Not medical oddities. Concrete proof. But with proof comes knowledge. With knowledge, faith leaves. And faith is something that religion relies on. So can we ever really have proof?

I didnt say you have to Believe in God...thats the point...If someone believes in you...would you turn your back on them? If you want you can- but i choose not to. As for the "proof" that you need - you mustn't see what i see. Look at every little detail in this universe and tell me "chance" is all it took...Mere chance...how is that more believable than a Higher Intelligence? You claim you need physical proof- so you want to SEE God? This isnt the smart way to go about it- a opposing view to that is simple...What the human eye cant see still well and truely exists...have you ever thought about that? Just because you cant see something doesnt make it not real. This is where you dont need to open your eyes...but your mind...to the possibility of a creator.

Many use and have used the idea of god as a support, a crutch for their behaviour or to explain other's behaviour.
The idea of divine forgiveness is a crutch.
The idea of a divine wrath is a crutch. It allows us to underpin our values with a 'divine' quality. It allows the fallen to stand again. Humans don't try hard enough because of the bigotry of an organised religion that surrounds ideas of a god, and because they have the crutch of a second life, a better life when dead. This can be achieved by us alone as humans together, alone.
Enough crutch synonyms i think

Hmm i have to disagree with you there...Even people that are in established religions still consider their God to be with them on a personal level. Religion hasnt stopped people moving on together- look of course theres been lots of conflict but human nature has it that we were going to fight and kill each other for other reasons be it politics, land or greed.
This is where my personal belief of God comes in...true followers of their God wont judge others and wont take physical or emotional action to fellow people. I personally see all men and women as my brothers and sisters...and i treat them as such. How could this be a bad thing...with the concept that we are all Gods children...you are all my brothers and sisters...and with this "family tree" nothing but love can come from it.

As for the "bad things" im not one to blame God on it...What i dont understand is why people think they deserve a perfect world...everyone talks about all the bad in life...but how about all the good? Do you thank God for the good or just blame God for the bad? Theres no faith in that relationship. People need to look to the deep message of their God...Unity, peace and brother and sisterhood...

-If someone believed in me, I'd be thankful. But that someone is still a person, not some invisible Guy who claims to have created everything, and for that, we should serve Him for the whole of our lives.
- And if I did turn my back on them, so what? Say some guy kills your daughter. He gets off as innocent. A year later, you're at a track meet about to run a relay, or something. You see him on the sidelines, cheering you on.
"Yeah!! You can do it!!!"
How do you feel? Do his cheers pump you up, help you run? Just because he thinks you're a good runner doesn't mean that you shouldn't feel negatively towards him in any way.
-So the Universe wasn't created by chance. God did everything. He microengineered everything. With a snap of His finger. Didn't take much thought, omnipotence has that perk. It's easy to say that there's someone that can do and know everything, and that is Who made it All. It's saner (for me) to say that
"These atoms bond this way, which is why this looks like this. This happens when this happens. This will never happen because of this."
-My mind used to be open to the idea of a Creator when I was younger. But that was because of my mother believing also. It was only until I thought about it for myself that I came to the decision that He didn't exist.

The concept of a Universal Consciousness, that in itself also has its own individual sentience, and the effects it can have on planets, nations, and individuals has not been ruled out as impossible.
If indeed such a link exists and a person feels the whole universe is against them, it just might be true.

We can see in the material world how we are constantly making laws and expanding them outward from the individual to larger and larger groups. We has individual rules of employment (laws), county laws, state, laws, national laws, and international laws.

Most people do not see laws as crutches, but as something desirable to have.

As time passed we saw that just punishement or breaking laws was not enough for us. We began creating frameworks of legal codes (government policies) to prevent starvation, to educate, to provide shelter, and to provide medical care. The groups came to recognize that they were only as strong as their weaker members and that the best treatment for crime was prevention. They started understanding that taking care of the group was actually taking care of themselves as well.

Most people do not see life sustaining policies as crutches.


It stands to reason that what we see ourselves doing in the conscious state is a reflection of how our subconscious also operates to an extent, that we link together and form frameworks for existence for ourselves.


How often have you heard people in a democracy complain about The Government as if it were a totally separate entity from themselves. They feel helpless and powerless before it and feel that anything they do to change it is useless and so they often do not even vote, saying they are not into politics.

Then there are those who think the government has some problems but overall it is working just fine and they are often active in some political or interest group with continous
contact with what the government is doing, always seeking some way to help improve it themselves.

It is more than coincidence that the two subjects that seem to create tha harshest divisions among people are relgion and politics. Both are forms of structuring reality, and as our material and immaterial existences are merged just below the surface, so are they.

Again you are using the word "invisible" you clearly want to "see" God in order to believe in him- yet you failed to answer my previous question...Did you know that things the human eye cant see still exist? Why cant God be one of these things exactly?



I really didnt understand this...Your example is not even relating to God at all...some guy kills your daughter? Did God do something bad in your life to stop you from believing in him? God cant "murder" anyone...death is a natural thing...people that inflict death is another story. Some people claim even if they KNEW God existed- they'd still turn their back on him...so much for appreciation.




Im not denying evolution or anything like that...I for one am interested and love science...yet science isnt the key to everything my friend...Even science admits it doesnt have the answer to everything...You cant solely depend on something like that...I believe in God but dont depend on him...you believe in science but you cant depend on it...Science has been wrong many times too. Theres no story as to HOW God created the world...As Paranoid Android said the story of Genesis in the Bible is simply to show God was responsible for the Earths creation- but the "How" isnt explained...Evolution can very well be the works of God...a changing world that we...and all life change with...makes sense to me. I dont think God "snapped" his finger- theres no way to know how God works.



I respect your decision but the mind should never be closed...Age isnt an excuse...neither is "growing up"...The possibility of Gods existance is 50/50...its either a YES or a NO...theres no inbetween...to me....that calculation should leave ones mind open to the possibility of Gods existance.

As for the "bad things" im not one to blame God on it...What i dont understand is why people think they deserve a perfect world...everyone talks about all the bad in life...but how about all the good? Do you thank God for the good or just blame God for the bad? Theres no faith in that relationship. People need to look to the deep message of their God...Unity, peace and brother and sisterhood...
[/quote]

Ramster I accept your emotional motive for your belief. But why is god's message, which is just a reflection of our own ideals, so much better than our own human values, ?
If you said to me,S7 "there is a philosophy, not a deist religion, a philosophy that allows humans to cope with an imperfect world that preaches unity, peace, brother and sisterhood". i would say tell me about it. There is no 'need' for god, humans can achieve anything if we put our minds to it and have enough time. Do you ever see a time of unity peace and bro'sis'hood? Too many people just assume this is a goal that we need to achieve because it shows them as spiritually enlightened. But it is precisely because of belief in their god that this will never happen! People do not want that, because their deist belief doesn't allow it. You are just taking us back to the 'we should all believe in one God idea because all god's are the same' because that is the only way forward.

-No, I'm not asking to see Him as proof, I was just saying that He's invisible. That's all.
-I must have misunderstood your previous post to me. You asked if someone believed in me, would I turn my back on them. I thought you meant an actual person, not just God; sorry. That's where that story came from. I can't turn my back on God's belief in me, since I already do not believe in Him. I can't accept his Faith in me and my abilties.
-With omnipotence comes the power to do anything at your whim. Snap of the finger. Blink of an eye. All are slower than the speed that God can create/destroy anything. As it snapped into existence, so did the proof that it had a beginning. Big Bang, I dunno, probably, but it did have it's origins somewhere.
-Just as I cannot depend on Science, you cannot depend on God. He won't do anything to change anything. It's only your Faith that makes you stronger, and your Faith that helps you in your life. Just as God doesn't murder anybody, he doesn't help anyone, either. He is only that Guy you can talk to, and take comfort in the fact that He's there, listening.

UTD Thanks for the discussion i guess the most important thing is to be a good person and hope for the best. Cheers mate.

Quote". The concept of a Universal Consciousness, that in itself also has its own individual sentience, and the effects it can have on planets, nations, and individuals has not been ruled out as impossible.
BA,I agree, nothing can be proved false, but that doesn't make it true.

Teapots around Mars anyone?

No one has to believe in anything...

You don't even have to believe in heaven and hell.

My personal idea on all of this...I do believe something had to create us...whatever that might be. It might actually be a being of intelligence or it might have been some energy that put things into motion. However our ideas about creation, life, death....those have changed over the years. With basically the same concept...live your life to the best of your abilities, be a good person and love each other and you will pass on and go to a better place. Now, this concept in general I have a problem with simply because it just sounds like a way to control the masses. Which is what I think it was generally put in place for to begin with. And if this other place is so much better...why would we want to bother with this one? Why do people fear death? Or why do they work so hard to prolong this life even through terrible illness if they can just go to a better place? Because no one is SURE even with all of their faith...they don't know for SURE that place exists or that it is better.

But if that place does exist...I know that if I have to live my afterlife beside half the people that condemn me simply because i chose to question their religion...I don't think I want to go there anyways.

If someone ask who invented computer... whoes name we can give... i can't imagine that as a computer now.. now all carry their computer in their pocket... so many minds and thoughts made that.. so can u tell.. who all given idea to create this will become owner of it.. no.. because we respect the founder... so we name the founder only..

-Took me a couple re-readings to get that. And even then, I'm not entirely sure.
-So are you saying you endorse polytheism? I don't even think you mean that. I can't tell.
- Computers aren't the same as the Universe. Yes, people worked together when creating computers. Yes, computers have advanced. The advances have their multiple creators, too. But the Universe hasn't gone through upgrades.
-...What exactly are you trying to say, and can you PLEASE say it so it's comprehendable?

Careful UTDA Maybe English is not the poster's first language. I understand your frustration, i really do but try not to SHOUT. Just ignore the post and move on or be gentler.

Why do you think that?

I wasn't shouting, I was pleading (seriously).

..Hmmm.
Well, I can see evolution as a sort of upgrade, but planets' orbits don't become more efficient, or siht like that. Nobody said,
"This way would be better, it'd be easier to use."

All in all, if it did, it would have been restarted, so this Universe is the only one I know.

We are saying.. each one's consious upgrading the universe.. spritual talks physics.(sixth sense).

and if anything is there without upgradation.. then i belive or feel.. it as GOD

Galaxies are born and then die. Seems anything with cycles of rebirth can evolve and anything we observe and think on is affected by our attention.

No idea... i can't say.. no comments..

What I can say is, there is something out here, whether you believe in god, or a higher power, something is out there watching over us, the proverbial father looking after us, making sure we don't implode. All I can say is believe what you will, and hope it makes you happy

Amen to that

Well the hundreds of millions of Atheists prove that the belief in any God(s) is unneccessary, some just choose to believe, possily because of how their raised, or because it sounds right to them.

Whether there is anyone out there is anyone's guess, could be one, could be millions or could be none.

Wow this thread grew fast.

I am an Athiest BTW.

~Thanato