Demonic Possession

After creating my post on Demonology, I had a number of responses about it, and also, people looking towards information on Demonic Possession. I thought I would give some information regarding this paranormal event as well.

Demonic Possession was thought possible when Jesus exorcised a demon by the name of Legion by the Dead Sea. Since this event, The catholic church believed it was possible to have God, and his son to work through us directly. However before the christians, demonic possession was still around in ancient civilizations such as the Sumerians, and the Chaldeans. Instead of "exorcists" they had shamans or witch doctors, the same as some modern day indian tribes as well.

( How these people performed their exorcisms will be detailed on my "exorcist" write up ")

However, like demonology, the thought of demonic possession became part of everyday christian religion and practices since it was introduced in the bible. The thought of getting possessed could happen to anyone, including animals. In the 4th century, St.Hillary was the first to introduce the idea that demons in fact use our bodies to their own bidding. It was not until later, the 5th century, that the actual list of demonically possessed symptoms were available. It was Pope Gregory the 1st that studied demonology, as well as demonic possession, and became quite knowledgable in both fields. The symptoms he described are the following.

- The ability to speak and/or understand one or more unknown languages.
- The ability to find secret things, read the mind, and divine future happenings.
- The ability to make physical efforts abnormal for that person.
- The act of spitting or vomiting every object the demons would have made the person swallow.

( This list would not be updated, or changed until Pope John Paul 2nd, I will set the changes in the " Exorcism " review. )

Ways of getting possessed can vary. The biggest thought about way to get possessed is too summon a demon, and evoking the spells, as through demonology, or too use a Ouija Board to summon a spirit. Other ways the church believes are the use of

- Drugs, alcohol, pornography, demonic rituals, witch sabbaths, and oaths with the devil.

Doing all of these in abundance, can bring upon demonic influence, and if the time is right, perhaps possession if the entity can gain entry. There are two terms when dealing with possession. There is

- Perfect Possession ( other names as well ) , and Demonic Possession.

Perfect possession is someone that is not quite demonically possessed, because he does not need to be. A murderer, drug dealer, rapist, someone that that does not need a possessed spirit within them to partake in the blasphemies of the church. These people cannot be exorcised, but they can be taught, and can eventually change with the help of gods grace and forgiveness.

Demonic Possession is exactly what the term describes. The direct possessing of a demon to have to commit involuntary acts to hurt yourself/ others.



One of the biggest misconceptions I have found with demonic possession, is the fact that only religious people can be possessed. This is false. However, when an atheist is possessed they will of course blame the above symptoms on a medical condition, and in many times, they are right in doing so. Demonic Possession is still around us, but only 10% or less of people that claim to be possessed are actually possessed. Science believes they can fix any mental illness with medicine, as God or Satan have never been proven to exist, but it's not the case. Stated above 90% of people have been cured with modern medicine, but there is a small number worldwide that still suffers greatly, and in some cases, have actually been advised by specific doctors to see a " witch doctor" or an " exorcist ".

My main argument with Demonic Possession is that exorcisms work. They have in the past, and lately, the church has been re-cruiting a larger number of them in order to fight a sudden increase in demonic activity. Exorcists are not doctors, and they do not provide there possessed victims any type of medicine, however, they still receive results. If demonic possession was a sudden case of chemical imbalance within the brain, no amount of praying or sprinkling of holy water would have an effect on the victim. However, in Exorcisms recorded in Rome, Italy, Africa, and in North America, people have become healed from their demonic symptoms from participating in this ritual. If it was a mere mental illness, a chemical imbalance with the brain, none of this would of helped, you would need a drug to counter-act the brains toxins to help the victim to became sane.

Demonic Possession of course go's hand in hand with exorcism. I will give another thread about this shortly when I gather more time. Once again, if anyone has any comments, or concerns regarding this information, feel free to contact me, or respond to this thread.

God Bless, Azalin

In my opinion "Demonic Possession is nothing more that undiagnosed psychological issues... Schizophrenia comes to mind, although there are other conditions that are possibilities...The symptoms of schizophrenia are very similar to classic signs of possession, and in case after case medication and therapy take care of problems in very short order.

There was a time before modern medical research where I could understand where people suffering from nervous tics, epilepsy or Tourettes Syndrome could be seen as being possessed, but as medical science advances and can treat more and more conditions succesfully I just don't see how people can see conditions that are being treated with medicines and still see them as being possessed.

It makes for great fiction and good movies, but in my opinion nothing more.

I couldnt agree more.

I have yet to see or read a professionally documented case of possession that does not meet all the earmarks of extreme obsessive disorder.

And additionally, while I'm skeptical on possession as being truly an external entity dominating someone's will, I do believe there are some scientifically unexplainable things in the universe, such as the human mind and body's ability to perform "miracles", such as extreme examples of the "placebo" effect, where someone takes something they are convinced is medicine or a "cure" for an affliction, and although there is no medical or scientific reason for this to work, it does - the power of suggestion, of self-suggestion, is tremendous - allowing for the possibility of stigmata, self-created possession and "curing" by exorcism, etc.

I agree, I also believe the rise of demonic activity is at hand, we are getting more and more people coming into this forum reporting their incidences, and others I've personally spoke with have had unexplainable symptons occur, demons exist, that is the bottom line.

Thank you boltwave.

Im sorry for the above responses, and I appreciate the remarks, however, I hope I can leave this dis-cussion as far out of a debate as possible. No one in here can say Demonic Possession is not true, and no one can say it is. So instead of having a roller coaster conversation, I'd really enjoy to leave it at that. There are a lot of people on these boards that ask about these questions, and I enjoy doing these write up's to help educate certain people, without them having to waste their time and cross referencing everything they read. If you want to debate demonic possession versus science and medicine, I ask please, make that thread, I'd like too keep this one based towards information on this topic.

Well, you have my apologies for "threadcrapping" - I wasn't really aware quite what you were going for with the topic but I had no intention of being rude or disruptive.

I agree possession exists, though the semantics and underlying causes are things I'm sure we do not see eye-to-eye on.

So, staying in line with your belief set, what are your thoughts on the reasons for these possessions, of only some people - certainly not enough people to make any real "dent" in the population as a whole. And what indications do these possessions seem to have, if there is perhaps an overarcing intent? If you agree that possessions seem to be becoming more "commonplace", why would you say that is, and what does it mean?

Perfect possession is someone that is not quite demonically possessed, because he does not need to be. A murderer, drug dealer, rapist, someone that that does not need a possessed spirit within them to partake in the blasphemies of the church. These people cannot be exorcised, but they can be taught, and can eventually change with the help of gods grace and forgiveness.

So, why is it then called Perfect Possession? Because they are not actually possessed and the demon does not have to actually do any work? So, was it their free-will that led them to do the things they do, or seeds planted by demons?

What exactly about an exorcism works? Why do some work and not others? Could those that do not work be mental illness?

Interesting thread, thanks Azalin.

If you did not wish to discuss the matter, why post this thread? If you post your "Professional Outlook" how is it that others cannot discuss their own outlook?

The entire concept of a forum is discussion...

I thought perfect possession meant you were "perfectly possessed" by the devil, for example. There wouldn't be spinning heads or the use of expletives.

So did I, but if I read the post correctly, it is someone who is not possessed, because they are already performing acts against God.... Did I read that right?

I read a book about it...but I'm sure Azalin will call it bs...In fact I'm willing to bet money on it
edit: Yep, Malachi Martin wrote about it.
"...those who are perfectly possessed and
function normally in society and that they have ho affect when
encountering blessings or holy water and such and as a result cannot
be exorcised..."
That's what someone mentioned about it. But it sounds far-fetched.

That's very rational thinking, but I think we have all heard enough about schizophrenia for one day, obvisouly it's a condition in the brain, obvisouly it can be cured by all medical means. We all know that tourettes and epilepsy aren't sure cases of possession, there is so much more than extends beyond just having seizures and convulsions here and there.

Really, possession comes down to what the symptons are showing, for instance, tourettes and epilepsy are neurological disorders, not mental illness, therefore they are physical, and if such symptons like seizures where to occur, and let's say a priest touches the person with holy water, and yet the person seems to contort itself in violent and strange physical positions of the body, or if the person reacts at all to any sort of action going on while the person suffering the seizures is out of their mental state, how is it possible for them become active with their enviroment, isn't a seizure where the brain loses activity for short periods of time?

Same thing goes for dissasociative disorder, either, the person suffering is either lying and playing a hoax or they are suffering from terrible and tragic afflictions which could be the doing of supernatural and dark activities.

Boltwave,

Not to go off topic here, but there is no cure for schizophrenia and some never respond to medication and therefore there is a need for constant 24-hour care.

As for seizures, the brain does not lose activity for short periods of time. Actually, your brain starts sending uncoordinated electrical discharges throughout your brain. This can happen with normal or abnormal brain cells. There really is not clear-cut reason why.
You can be aware of your surroundings when this happens and not know what is happening, it can be a very frightening experience.

Also, there are probably quite a few kids out there diagnosed with attention deficit disorder, that actually have "silent seizures". You can have them several times throughout the day and not know it, all the while, people just think you are daydreaming.

While there are cases of possession out there, like Azalin stated 90% can probably be explained medically. There is still so much we do not know about how our brains work.

But I agree, it is not what this thread is about.

Hmmmm........that is true I guess, thank you for sharing your opinions

I have 2 books by Malachi Martin, and his co-writer The psychologist Scott.M Peck. Scott Peck was a psychologist of 20 years, when he met Malachi after reading one of his books, and asked why after 20 years of dealing with patients, he never seen 1 account of demonic possession. Malachi then sent him some people that were sent to him for demonic possession, and in the book " Glimpses of the Devil ", Scott Peck talks about how he is forced to become an exorcist to save his patients. All in all lol, the book is BS. He starts the book by listing all these things you need to do in order to beat the devil out of someone through an exorcism, then in the end, he walks all over his steps. He more or less wings every exorcism that he does, and it just is not believable in the slightest. For instance, he lists that you should never talk to the devil, or try to have a conversation with it, which, is true. Yet, at the end, he's talking to his " SATANICALLY possessed" ( because he doesn't think hes dealing with just a devil, every patient he gets is possessed by SATAN, not just a devil" ) and he outsmarts him everytime. I hope that he just exaggerated his book a little bit, might be a bit more beleivable from an exorcism standpoint then, but it's all hard to stomach for myself.

However Father Malachi was quite the person himself. He was ordained a Jesuit, one of the highest orders of the church, and wrote several books like the one I believe you read Yelekiah " Hostage to the Devil ". What he was referring to as Perfect Possession is what I was relaying. Someone that is perfectly possessed cannot be exorcised, only taught, and can be persuaded away from that sinful lifestyle. What it's really saying, is that certain people have been abused through their entire life, lived life on the streets, or lived in households of severe abuse grow up to this lifestyle. It's not so much their fault, but through all of the sin that has happened to them, they slowly begin to let it all in, and actually believe, this is what life is all about, and start to live under that hypnosis. These are people that cannot benefit from a exorcism, but will benefit greatly from a psychologist, or a priest that can help enlighten them. Father Malachi was said to have a number of affairs with his wife, and many priests tried to kick him out of of his priesthood, but the pope never turned his back on him. The main reason being, there is corruption in the church, that is a fact, and he wrote a book about it called " Clerical Error ", which talks about some of the things the church does. Because of this, they tried to get rid of him, and made rumors he cheated on his wife, and so fourth, however, the pope understanding what he was trying to bring to light kept him within the church, as surely, the pope would not be corrupt.

One question, Azalin. And I won't answer this one as I so often do:

If your child was being verbally abused by the strictest of math professors, would you storm into the school, demanding to meet this gym teacher when there's no athletic program at the school?

Im sorry, could you rephrase the question ?...

I really hate to do this to you, Azalin, and to everyone else like myself who enjoys a challenging riddle. And please, find it in your heart to forgive yourself for the way you've been frightening everyone.

Student = possession victim
Math professor = ill-intentioned spirit
School = house
Gym teacher = Devil
Athletic program = Hell

I think that many time's the person in question may have mental problem's, There is that one or two percent who is really over taking with some type od demonic influence...

I don't think Azalin is scaring anybody. I'm sorry Frankblunt, but i'm not sure what it is you're saying. Are you saying that Possesion does not exsist? Or that possesion has nothing to do with the Devil?

If possesion does not exsist, how would you explain the fact that after a succesful exorsism the victim often referes to the Arch angel Michael banishing the demon, even though more often then not the victim had never heard of this phenomena?

(I think i got that right? )

Could it be explained as some kind of hallucination? If so, then caused by what? and why would the hallucination be the same for each victim?


Anyway, this topic is in no way frightening to me, just interesting

Thank you for starting this thread, I believe its written with much Knowledge and I feel it will be helpful, and no matter what many think about Possessions not being real I think you and I and many others know that it is real, and if it wasn't the Vatican wouldn't have priests doint the Exorcisms if there wasn't a reason to do so.
I look forward to other things you write as a Former Priest, and while at times I disagree with some of the things you write especially, since you don't believe that I have a possession problem, I am still happy that you are writing like this because I feel with your background and knowledge it will be helpful to others.
Its very difficult for most people to believe in Possessions, and Exorcisms and unless they actually experience these things themselves, some people may never believe, but I know first hand they are true, and I encourage you to keep writing about your experiences because I find it very helpful.
Even as I write here the four Possessing Spirits try to prevent me from writing my thoughts smoothly and so even writing this much is a real Struggle for me especially when people keep reading my posts and telling me I am not possessed and I need a Therapist.
You can't judge a person until you have walked a mile in their shoes.

As always, Azalin, you give insightful commentary, and tons of useful info. I wish I had guys like you on my site.
They would gobble up your essays like this.

i still want more information. how can demons cross over into our dimension. and how many dimensions r there?

Im sorry FrankBlunt, I do not come to this site to decypher riddles. If you are a long time user on this site, you will notice a large number of threads are usually incomprehensible. I thought this was one of those responses that had no meaning, and Im not going to waste my time to try and find a meaning in something that may in fact, have no meaning on my thread what so ever.

You are accusing me of frightening everyone, Im am only here to inform. No-one should be frightened by the Devil, through God we are protected, and the belief in him can bring anyone salvation. If you do not believe in Demonic Possession, I will find that strange. In the Possession vs. Mental illness thread, you spoke of when you were sexually molested by 2 spirits.



Once again, im not frightening anyone, Im an educater, and Im helping people understand certain beliefs people may have around them. By the above symptoms, seems you had your own possession of some kind, so if anyone could understand where Im coming from, I hope it could be someone like you.

God Bless, Azalin

Hey, Azalin, I've read the Martin text too and I think you're a little confused about what he meant by "perfect possession." In these instances "perfect" means complete. The demon's will and the will of the host are in complete harmony, so there is no struggle and therefore no symptoms; the soul is completely overpowered.

The symptoms of "demonic possession" are what happen when possession is incomplete, when the soul of the host struggles against the control of the demon. The bizarre behavior of the classically possessed person is not, strictly speaking, intended by the demon at all. The demon is trying to program the mind of its host, trying to frighten it into total submission by taking control of whatever bodily and spiritual functioning it can. If the demon can turn its host's identity into a chaos, the demon can take real control of its victim.

Meanwhile, the host instinctively tries to expel the demon by whatever means present themselves. The possessed don't vomit because demons think vomiting is cool, it's simply that vomiting is one of the most effective ways for the body/mind to expel negative energy. The speaking of foreign languages is the result of the demon tampering directly with the ego/identity of the host. The foretellings and clairvoyance might be the demon trying to create fear and awe in the victim and any witnesses, but it might be genuine gifts of the spirit the soul can use to anchor itself to the mind of God.

The struggle between the demon and its host is also a struggle over what is and is not real; because at the highest level of reality, the demon does not exist, evil does not exist--evil is only a turning away, a denial--and the soul must remember these things. Reducing the demon to a mere psychological disturbance in the mind of the possessed sometimes destroys the demon. So sometimes drugs are perfectly effective. It's kind of an inverted placebo affect: the demon is expelled not because the patient believes the drugs will be effective against the demon, but because the body/mind resonates with the drug paradigm in which demons don't exist. At the level that demons function, reality is quite malleable.

Oh, and hey, Azalin, what's with this "professional opinion" stuff? You do this for a living?

Rosemary, what are you talking about, are you documenting it and why do you not have help? Were you a former priest? I would think that if you were truly posessed it could be on your local news if you wanted the word to get out and people to truly be informed.

Whew... amen. Thank you Az!

ok...re-edit because that was confusing.

Amen to what Taustin' said, and thanks Azalin for this info.

I appreciate his time, and it is my decision on what I make of it.
Why do people accuse Azalin of frightening people. The devil can persuade, but don't blame him for your dumb doings.
If the article scares you, then simply don't read. If it is useful to you, then utilize it.

In the end, God does make the final call on the approval of what Satan can do.

No cavalier, I am not an exorcist, but in the church, I did a lot of my studying in the rite of exorcisms, demonology, and demonic possession.

What you are describing are your personal opinoins on demonic possession, I am describing the churchs beleifs. The church wrote the book of demonic possession, and it's symptoms, and what they mean. Are you saying the church did not know it's own symptoms, and the demons reason for doing so ?.

When these symptoms are given, the victim of course is trying to fight off the demon, thats why these symptoms are seen. The speaking of foreign languages, or clairvoyance, is actually a taunt by most demons. It is made to scare anyone around, even the exorcist to believe that the victim has succomb to the demons influence, and cannot be reached. It's a flaunt of there direct power to make anyone around seem inferior and helpless, and many times it has worked. Soon as an exorcist feels doubt, or questions his own abilities and faith, he can no longer win.

In the end of your post, your saying that demonic possession in fact is all in the mind, that there is no evil, no good, but you believe in spirits ?.

Hey Azalin, why do they do it? Why do demons posess physical bodies? I would think it much more successful to not posess a body. They do not do much after they have taken posession (demonic possession) it seems. What is in it for them?

Okay,

I gotta question. Why would a demon want to bring attention to itself during a possession? It would seem like they would want to do it with as little interruption as possible, so it could take hold. And what exactly is the demon trying to accomplish? I mean, what happens if the exorcism fails? Does it just stay w/i you forever? You couldn't function like that, you'd either end up in jail, an asylum or dead.

Guess that was more than one question.

Amy

Going on the Local news would not do anything as far as getting a Priest to believe and perform an Exorcism.
I have written to tabloids, and contacted all the Major News Stations and not one has responded to me although I have told them the entire Story and even told them I have been documenting the whole thing in my Journal.
As you can see on this Forum few people believe in Possessions and the ones who believe in Possessions don't believe they happen to ordinary people like me and they won't believe at all that I know the four Spirits who are sitting inside my body they believe possessions are carried out by Fire breathing demons when he fact is many Possessions are the result of relatives or co-workers and or just the Spirits of Acquaintences who do this possibly for vengance or for the fun of having you try to get someone to believe you and put you through the Exorcism and things like that then I think when they get the attention they want and get a Priest walking around with Holy Water and a Big Crucifix the Evil Spirits get the attention then want then they get out.
But don't get me wrong a Possession even by Relatives is not a cake walk because they can be mean and painful and when people don't believe they are beside themselves with happiness and each time a Priest turns you down they know they are on their way to success.
My Possessing Spirits are writing right along with me here through automatic writing, and when I get off the Computer after people don't believe they are beside themseloves with the feeling of successful then I am really in for some vicious attacks as I try to sleep at night.
I don't really expect anyone here to help me get them out unless of course some of the Vaticans Priests decide to Exorcise me or unless one of the people who document hauntings and things like who live in my Vicinity would like to visit my home with some of their Equipment and see if they can detect the presence of these Spirits.
If there are any takers I live in Toledo, Ohio.
I approached several priests and one was terrified and said he wanted nothing to do with Possessions and knows nothing about it and so I contacted another and he said the only way he would do an Exorcism is if I promised that I would never communicate with the Spirit World again and I said I can't do that because God and Jesus are in the Spirit World.

Azalin,

Thank you for your reply. I know there is such a phenomenon as possession, but you and I differ on belief in demons and Satan. I'm aware of simpler methods for ridding oneself of these mischievous entities that sometimes inhabit the body. Please see my explanation on possession and "imaginary friend" issues in the recent topic of haunting and puberty.

I personally don't know of any exorcisms, but have done some little study in the right to exorcism.

The Catholic Church still defines true signs of possession as displaying superhuman strength, often accompanied by fits and convulsions; changes in personality; having knowledge of the future or other secret information; and being able to understand and converse in languages not previously known to the victim, such as the phenomenon glossolalia.
Included in the list of other signs or symptoms for declaring demonic possession are: the practice of lewd and obscene acts, or even sexual thoughts; horrible smells of bodily ordors or of sulphur, associated with hell; distended stomachs; rapid weight loss where death seems inevitable; changes in the voice to a deep, rasping, menacing, guttural croak. Occasionally there may be signs of automatic writing or levitation.
Many of these signs or symptoms can be explained away by modern medical science. Seizures and convulsions are symptoms of epilepsy. Personality changes can indicate hysteria, or schizophrenia, or other psychological malfunctions. Lewd and obscene acts can indicate mental disorders. Having sexual thoughts, if taken seriously as a sign of demonic possession, would indicate nearly all of the modern population is possessed, especially the men. Distended stomachs can indicate malnutrition and other medical disorders. Also, having knowledge of future events or information is known as clairvoyance by many occultists and Neo-pagan witches which they consider a special spiritual gift. In light of such evidence it seems the term demonic possession is hardly functional anymore.

Hmmm, well I would have to say Rosemary that I have never heard of being posessed by spirits other than demonic. What exactly do they do to you? No offense but how do you know you are not schitzo (sp)? Is it just voices and is it only at night? Are you doing the vomiting? I would not even think you would really be functional. What the hell do they want? I find it partially unbelievable but am open to what you say. I am curious. They certainly could not be spirits of people already still alive. Who are they? Do you know?

I also think you need to videotape all the incidents.

I will be as honest as I can on this issue Amy, and Taustin, I really do not know. Priests, Arch-Bishops and Demonologists all have their own reasons on why demons do it, but it was never mentioned in the bible, or any grimoire. With what knowledge I have, I would give 2 options.

1 ) Demons can inhabit us, as a vessel. This keeps them out of hell into the material plane, which is where we live. The material plane is a far better place then Hell. It does not matter whether your a demon, or a person, hell is torture, it's void of Gods Love, and is a prison for those that did not follow Gods laws. Demons will possess us whenever they get a chance, to try to escape, and live among us in our world as long as possible.

2 ) Demons will forever hate us for our abilities, such as repentance, and more importantly, the undying love God has for us. Out of pride, jealousy, and revenge they would rather ravage our bodies, and pervert god's teachings and have us sin to punish god into thinking they are the dominant beings, and they should instead have his love.

Now the symptoms of demonic possession are like what HKCavalier did describe at the beginning of his post. They are signs that the demon is trying to overcome the humans will, however, the majority of the symptoms come about DURING the exorcism, as this causes pain to the demon inside the body. Like I stated previously, some demons will flaunt their abilities, mainly once again out of their own pride, just to show themselves, how much more dominant they are compared to us. This is a scare tactic which is very useful actually.

If an exorcism fails ( I will get more into it on my next topic ) the demon continues to inhabit the body. The main instrument when doing an exorcism, is the possessed victim themself, they want to have to let the demon go, which can be very hard, especially if the demon has been sickening their mind over a number of years. If the victim dies, it's not known what happens with the victim. I would assume Jesus and God will judge them accordingly when the time comes.

Well the real problem here is few people know the Truth about these things but thank God they are at least becoming more interested in these things and so there is hope for the future.
It is not just voice and it is not just at night and these are not the only spirits that I am in communication with.
These spirits climbed into my body because I would not send the others away that I want to write with.
Three of them are my Relatives who died in the fourties, fifties and sixties and the fourth is a man I knew when he walked the Earth and he said unless I send the others away he will sit inside my body until the day I die and the reason he gives for doing this is he doesn't want me to be working with the Male Spirits and I know this sound a little strange but we have to realize that one of the Possessing Spirits was one of Toledo, Ohio's most Prominent Psychiatrists when he walked the Earth and he rightly believes that no one will believe that he would sit inside my body but its all true.
When this man walked the Earth he took a liking to me and in the Seventies I left town with another man and he has never forgiven me for this and he said my leaving town with the other man caused him great stress which he believes led to his Heart Attack at the age of 59.
Now I don't feel this is true because he no right to feel this way because he had a wife and five children at home and he should have been paying less attention to me and more to them.
so I guess you could say this is one of those obsessive Love Stories that goes beyond the Veil of Death and I am not sure what i can do to get this Jackel out of my body because no one will believe this Story except some of my Relatives and they like many others make jokes about my Possessing Spirit and ask how he is and then they will say things like well just tell him to go away and he will.
But its not true he will not go away and I don't know what I am going to do about him except keep writing about him and hopefully son his wife and son who are both in the Spirit world will forgive him and come pick him up and take him with them soon.
Even as I write he is writing right along with me through Automatic Writing helping to tell this story.
So you see love and hate never dies.

You know what i dont understand is why do demons possess humans?

I don't know either, but I do know some make claims to get attention...hehe

Azalin, I meant no offence. You seemed confused is all. I was giving you my understanding of Martin's text, colored by my memory of several interviews with Father Malachi on the Art Bell show, colored by my own experience with demonic possession, not as a member of the Catholic clergy but as one of these "witch doctors" you mentioned in your OP. Your description of "perfect possession" seemed confused on several points when compared with my recollection of Martin's explanation. I could be wrong, but your definition just didn't make sense.
Good gravy, why is this stuff so confusing to people? I did not say that "demonic possession in fact is all in the mind!" And I don't believe in spirits, I've seen the dang things--or more strictly, I've seen "things" that by all accounts behave and have existence exactly as spirits are said to do. Also, authorities whom I have no reason to distrust have confirmed that these were indeed spirits.

(I'm a little tired of having people with nothing but mystical "belief" and book learning to back up their claims, saying that my experiences are as baseless as theirs--merely reading up on "exorcism" and actually participating in one are very different things and will give you very different information--sorry, a pet peeve of mine )

I have also seen things that are not and do not behave as spirits, things which for a whole variety of reasons I would call "demons." In my experience, and according to my study, spirits and demons are not, strictly speaking, the same thing. "Spirits" are some species of "the dead." They were human once and have at least the memory of free will. Demons are an aspect of consciousness itself. Consciousness, as I understand it, is not limited to individual minds, but is an aspect of reality itself. Demons exist within our individual minds, but they also have existence within the One Mind as well. They themselves do not have individual identity or freewill, but are characteristic of certain areas of identity and intention common to all people. My experience has shown that they tend to dissipate when the spiritual vibration of an individual or location is brought above a certain threshold. From my reading of Catholic exorcism rites, this raising of the possessed person's vibration is central to the efficacy of such rites.

I'm curious, Azalin, to your mind is it Catholic doctrine that evil exists as a real and external threat to God's authority?

Not at all, nothing is a threat to God. Although demons and Satan himself may uprise against God and try to overthrow him, it is, and never will be a threat to him.

And I have never heard of that concept or theory that you have when it comes to Demons being created, or are apart of consciousness.

Okay, now I'm confused

That's a simple question really, demons go after humans because we are the top prime, we are the ultimate likeness and satan does not like the fact that we are the center creation of the universe, therefore, he is the enemy of man, and goes out trying to possess and tempt the souls mainly by corrupting them with fear etc.

Haha, I was very close.



This was what I was thinking. But now I'm confused along with a lot of people in this thread. I think I'll check the book out at the library and get back to you on my opinion.

That description of perfect possession is likewise the same as mine. Like stated, perfect possession is more or less a state of mind, in which a demonic influence is no longer needed, because the person is committing the acts voluntarily.

Or...because they are perfectly possessed by the devil
In the book that you called BS, "Glimpses of the Devil", one woman was thought to be possessed by several entities, even though she was "perfectly possessed".

Scott Peck beleived she was perfectly possessed, but you cannot really believe him. That entire book is twisted, especially on how he became an exorcist overnight. After completing the book, anyone with any knowledge on exorcisms would know he had no idea what he was talking about. He beleived in the book that the 2 exorcisms he did on the 2 women were actually possessed by Satan himself. He had no faith in himself, and was constantly calling Father Malachi on the phone, asking him what he should do next. You seriously think a successful exorcists makes phone calls in the middle of an exorcism asking for advice?. Also the fact that he sits there with the possessed victim, eats breakfast with them, talk for about 30 minutes, then they decide to tie her up again, and give another try at her. Then all the sudden shes writhing around in agony again, when just 10 minutes ago she was laughing and eating sandwiches with everyone. A bunch of BS if you ask me.

Well I haven't seen a possession myself. But this doesn't mean that perfect possession in the way Malachi described it doesn't exist. We have no proof on whether or not it exists. This isn't about the credibility of Mr. Peck. I'll check out Hostage of the Devil while I'm at it.