I took alot of time writting this. It is a common habit for believers to avoid any kind of documents trying to prove wrong alien presence. So I would appreciate alot if an effort was put into reading the following. Excuse my english, im french canadian.


Singularity and Aliens: A paradox


I used to be a strong believer in Alien presence on earth...Now I think it was a way to fufilled my boredom. Most of people believe in Aliens the same way some people believe in religion. Both awaits for signs proving its existence. Both of them are victim of hoaxes too.

Then I got sceptic..but I still left a small place of a posibility.
When I came across the theory of technological Singularity, it left no doubt in my mind, aliens presence on earth is a complete absurd taught.
Alien lies upon speculation, but Singularity lies on solid scientific observation making it undeniable.

Here's a brief summary of Singularity.

Every ten years, we double up our technological development. Its pretty much like Moore's law. On a graphic, we see an exponential curve, wich ends in a verticle line, wich is the singularity point. Our singularity point is near. We may see it happen, if not our children will. The only thing that can stop a singularity is a civilization crash. Meteor, or whatever.

The singularity is observable since the big bang itself, as it is a universal law. I am pretty sure that any form of life is under its direct influence. Nothing cant escape it.

The bigbang itself is a form of "reverse" singularity. In other words, universe was created with a singularity point. Unlike us, we are heading toward one.


Big Bang:----------------------------------10 exp -35 Sec
Universed Shaped:------------------------10 exp -6 sec
Basic element formed:---------------------3 sec
Radiation Era:------------------------10 000 yrs
Matter Era:--------------------------300 000 yrs
galaxie and Stars:----------------3 000 000 yrs


As you can see, we cannot deny the above pattern. This is a reverse singularity. Universe will follow this law until its "death", if it does not contract from its own gravity.
This is what will happen if it does not contract. Im not just saying this, science predict it.

Stellar era ends----------------100 000 000 000 000 yrs
Degenerate Era ends-----------------------10 exp 37 yrs
Black Hole era Begins----------------------10exp 38 yrs
The END of the universe------------------10 exp 100 yrs....WOW! INTENSE!


Right after the creation of stars, the universe then enters in a sub-singularity process, wich affect the creation of life. I say "sub", because at that point, it does not affect the Universe. Also, they are as many of these sub-singularity as they are planets able to support life. But all of the sub-singularity start with a common point, the creation of Carbon, wich is the fundamental tool of the life-making process.

Here is OUR sub-singularity process. Starting from the creation of our sun...wich implies carbon. Again, an evident exponential rate, wich dramaticly accelerate even more after the first proto-human.

our sun:----------------5 000 000 000 yrs

earliest life from-------3 800 000 000 yrs
(bacteria..ect)

primitive animals--------700 000 000 yrs
(Jelly fish, alguae)

first mammals-------------65 000 000 yrs

autralophitecus-------------7 000 000 yrs
ramidacus

Homo Abilis-----------------2 400 000 yrs
(first to use tools)

Homo Errectus--------------1 800 000 yrs

Homo Sapien( us )-----------200 000 yrs

Funny...another singularity. What a coincidence!!!

Homo sapiens are also tools, like carbon was, to enable another singularity.We call it a paradigm shift. This time its heading toward the creation of a super intelligence. The next step are machines.

Homo sapiens-----------------200 000 yrs

Paleothic Art--------------------40 000 yrs
(global communication)

Neolithic-------------------------10 000 yrs
(agriculture revolution)

computers:---------------------------50 yrs

Then again, the pattern remain consistent.

Agricutural marks the birth of modern civilization. From there, technological singularity pursue its path. It wont be necessary to make a list to show it, im pretty sure you get the idea. Since the first computer in ww2, everything evolved faster. Computers has a role similar to carbon. Carbon aceleratd the processus of the molecule formation. Computers accelerates the formation of new tools. The law of acceleration returns.

Folowing this law, the next paradigm shift should be in less than 100 years. At that point, super Intelligence will take the torch of evolution. They will think millions of times faster than a human brain. Therefore, what will seem to be a singularity point for us, is only a beginning for these superbeings.

The following are only speculations
This should lead, in theory, of a massive spread of intelligence trough space, at the speed of light. The final goal, wich may seem to be taken out of a fantasy book, could be the awakening of the universe, as it becomes a consicous form of infinite intelligence. The awakening of a god.



Alien's presence on earth
Now its time to talk about the Alien presence on earth.
Assuming the law of Singularity is real and universal (which im sure it is), we are able to somehow proove, the impossiblity for our civilzation, to ever make contact with an ORGANIC INTELLIGENT form of life.

Its is not only a question of the odds supporting life probability troughout the universe. I have no doubt about the possility of ET life. But there is another issue we seems to forget, the odds of an intelligent life in the same scale as our are insanely low. Our history is resume to a mere 200 000 yrs, within a range of 4 billions.

If we ever going to witness ET life, it is bound to be either primitive OR computerize (assuming that an alien civilization reached singularity before us).


Assuming ET presence on earth, is assuming they are within our range of technological develepment. Their technological development is between ours and the singularity point...live like said, our singularity is bound to happen in more or less than 100 years. So we are talking about an organic form of life whose development is within our range. The odds for this to ever happen are completly insane. That 100 years of lapse is quicker than a blink of an eye in the anthropid evolution alone.

Im assuming they are organic because of the myths that goes along with them, and of course, the UFO. Im also assuming they SHOULD be influence by the laws of singularity because if they came from that far, they must have knowledge in mathematics, wich is universal. And mathematics is the indisociable from singularity.

If on the other hand, they are a post singularity visitors, they would have no need to

-fly around in ridiculously looking flying saucer.
-make silly human abductions so they can make an hybrid race or wutever. I mean..come on....
-put implant in people..im pretty sure that even US army came with a more sophisticated use than that.
-observe us for over few thousand years. A simple glimpse at us is enough to gather all the informations they would need...informations that would also be useless to such godlike beings.
-make collaboration with a Government, like some alien conspiracy theorist suppose...
-a post singularity-civilization have no needs at all to make contact with us period.

SETI is in my opinion a complete waste of money, and should be aborted immediatly. People die of fn hunger, give that invested money to them instead, jesus christ.



UFO
Ufo does exist...they are incredible footage proving them, especially the ones from NASA. But do we really have to assume tha they are extraterrestrials? The problem with singularity is that it might be alot more closer than we think. Billions are invested in black project, wich is issued form project paper clip(importation of nazi scientist after ww2). The first b2 were originally a Nazi invention. See link: http://www.vat19.com/webimages/b2/screensh...B2110704-50.jpg

It took over 40 years to finally reveal this type of aircraft to public. Its the case for alot more inventions. I am much more inclined to believe that ufos comes from Nazi than Aliens.


Personal explanation

Im pretty sure there are 2 parallel technological development. These are only speculations from my own.

#1: The first one is our own, the one that is regulated by global economics. Ecoconomic sometimes tends to slow down development, if the project is being woked on has no financial potential. Its the case for internet. Internet was invented arounf the 50s. But it was utterly useless for any economics rental. Once it poped out in our homes, it grew exponetially, catching up on its delay. Its also the same for transportation issu. OUr develpment is forcing us to stick to combustile energy. It will remain that way until economic sucked up all that is possible to suck from oil. Then we move one to other means in a "boum", catching up the delay that economic caused.

#2: The second one is a raw development, that depends only upon its financial investment, wich is enough to let it grow without obstacle. This development path is kept secret from economic regulated society. In other words, we may never witness singularity. It could happen right now without us even knowing about it.

I cant find any other explanation than the human origin for Ufos. It looks incedibly superior. Unable to explain them, we associate them to aliens, as our ancestor assmilate science to sorcery.
Like the B2, we may look at ufo in a couple of decade, like any typical aircraft. By then, we will probalby find something else to blame on alien presence.


These are my taughts and arguments. I look forward for intelligent comments. But im not looking for comments such as " yea but..heuuuu...their aliens man, who knows wut how they are". Get some evidence, or at least a solid and consistent taught.

reference

universe timeline: http://www.pbs.org/deepspace/timeline/

Singularity summary: http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0134.html?printable=1

I agree with you that the idea of flying saucers being alien creations is absurd.I also highly doubt the presence of aliens on earth.However:



I assume that was a joke

I do not see a definite pattern in the law of singularity.It is very unpredictable,and assumes it knows the course the human race(and all other intelligent races for that matter)will take in the future.

But hey,what do I know.

What do you think they are then? If neither human or alien origin.




Yea, alot of predictions made a few decades ago somehow failed. It was said in the 60s-70s that the first "real" AI(tinking like a human), was suposed to see the day at our time. It does in fact look unpredictable at our scale of perception. But when we looked at our development trough our 200 000 years of history, the exponential curve is cleary visible. A large sample of time must be consider to see this pattern. The more you focused on a short laps of time, the less its seems accurate.

Moores law, unlike some failed prediction, remained faithfull to itself. It has been like that so for few decades. If we assume singularity point is not meant to be in 100 years like the predictions says, then we can be sure of one thing. Moore's law is bound to end in 500 years, because at that time, it would require all the energy in the universe to run these computers. So we are talking of a maximum delay of 500years....on a scale of 200 000 years, wich is representative of the homo sapien hsitory lenght, it dosnt change much if you asked me.
Therefore, I strongly believe it is predictable, as long as we look into the right scale of time.

very well written. however, there is a lot of assumed values in this hypothesis. such as "our technology doubles every 10 years ". this is an arbitrary choice , as is obvious. the other values used are all educated guess's at this point. and i must ask, why would the eventual limit of our developments negate the notion of biological manipulation , rather than AI based technologies? (once again another assumption that cant possibly be known with certainty)

as einstein said of constants in a reply to Rosenthal-Schneider on the 11 May 1945:

"With the question of the universal constants ,you have broached one of the most interesting questions that may be asked at all. There are two kinds of constants: apparent and real ones. The apparent ones are simply the outcome of the introduction of arbitrary units, but are eliminable. The real [true] ones are genuine numbers which God had to choose arbitrarily, as it were, when He deigned to create this world. My opinion now is - stated briefly - that constants of the second type do not exist and that their apparent existence is caused by the fact that we have not penetrated deeply enough. I therefore believe that such numbers can only be of a basic type, as for instance pi and e."

i do not believe that the "singularity" hypthesis proves or disproves alien life and their actions, based on the fact (as is apperant) of the arbitrary choices used in the deduction. It is currently impossible, due to our lack of knowledge of the true nature of this universe, to deduce a limit to human progress and its inevitable conclusions. this hypothesis , while stated does not reside in probability, does indeed, rely on probability in order to attain a conclusion.

in conclusion, this "singularity" hypothesis does not prove or disprove extra terrestrial's coming to and from our world. im not saying they are or are not. but this hypothesis does not prove it, either way.

(using a simple growth and decay model, determine the inevitable fate of the human race, the universe, and the nature of alien life , is a guess , at best)

what happens when various sources of information converge. For example, did Japan progress in accordance with singularity both during and after it's few centuries of isolationist policy? This whole concept strikes me as oversimplification, though I didn't read in detail (just wanted the simple version, oh the irony).

My problem is that he says that one lifeforms singularity is the next evolution's starting point. But, if there is a new level, then the sigularity never was a singularity it was only a steep climb and then a new plateau. This would seem to me that technology would come in spurts, where maybe we very quickly get to some final level of computers and solar power and then nothing new comes along for centuries or millennia, if you are following this theory of singularities anyway.

I believe the only super intellegence that will be happening will be technological.

It is an interesting theory otherwise. Thought provoking.

Im really happy to know that people took time reading my post.



Yes, I make assumptions, but all of them are made upon observations. I have assumed that the sequential singularities that our universe has known, was due to a constant, implanted by a pantheist God..einstein's god.
The only thing that can prove my claims, are the odds that such event might happen. We can estimate the odds by looking in the past. In my opinion, they are pretty damn good.

But like you said, it is an hyphothesis, not a thesis or a theory.


This is a very rough estimate. Altough it was made upon our technological history.

The references point we choose to calculate singularity, are inventions that supplant their predecessors. It is the frequency of such event that give us, on a graphic, the exponential curve.
These references points are the tools, that had a major role in creating others.

example:

Charles Babbage's Analytical Engine(mechanic computer) Around 1850
Then came the Electro-mechanical computer around 1900
THen cam relay-based (ww2 code breaker) 40's
Then came Vacum tubes 50's
Then came transistors mid 60's
Then came integrated circuit 80's

all of these system supplanted their predecessor, making it useless. The pattern does not look like a perfect exponential curve...yet, because we are still making progress. But the pattern remains highly predictable in long term. The reason why the Integratd circuit is not yet supplanted by another system, it is because of moore's law, wich allow computer progress at a formidable rate.

This is pretty much how scientist estimate the technological development rate. In short term it isnt much accurate, but it is in long term.





good point. Then again I would have to assume an answer...but never would I do that without observing the facts.

Biology progress would have not known the progress it knows now, without the tools it uses to achieve their research. Computers are necessary for scientist to decode human genome. It would take hundreds of years to make it so by themself.
The same goes with astronomy. Computers calculate trajectory and path.
Even paleonthology, wich uses PC to date fossils and stuff.

The thing is that all of the science known, has no impact in the development of computer science. Finding cure to cancer does not make computers faster, nor finding a new species of dinosaur.
The only science that improve computers...are computers! Therefore, it makes this the fastest growing science because it does not depend from anything else but itself.

Evolution shows us that intelligence is one of the greatest tools of survival. Most of the predators outsmart their preys. At least in the mamalian kingdom.

Computers is the only science that can allow us to surpass our intelligence....well, maybe genetics could...but could never match a fully eclectronic brain.
Once we achieve super intelligence, you should understand the important role this new "tool" plays in every other science.
Computers reshaped the technological tree since its creation. It became the "carbon" of science.

.

I agree it dosnt really prove wrong Alien presence on earth...but it sure does greatly slim the chances of such probability. It is estimated that in our galaxie they are 30 billions stars that posess a Jupiter like planet. It is said that these type of planets are very useful to allow life on a earth like planet in the same solar system. Out of these 30 billions, we can estimate that 10%(im being very generous) of them that posess an earth like plantet supporting life. That does not make it a civilized form of life. Out of that 10%, maybe only 3 % represent an intelligent life form.
And again, what are the chances that this intelligent life form could be located around our own technological scale. Wich seems to be the case for greys,reptoid, nordic, all these reported Aliens.
Our first ancestor is 8 millions years old....this slims the chance to even less than 1%.



Our Singularity is observe through mankind's progress in general. It does not apply for one particular country. What Japan did was catching up on thing that were already invented. From that point it collaborated(massively) with the rest of the world in technological develompent.




Singularity point is nothing more than a steep climb, like you said...but only for whoever that "survives" it. We cant really compare our singularity's precision with the one of a black hole. Its only a matter of perception.

I believe mankind is issued from a singularity point. There was a very slow eveolution pattern among mamalians, until the first monkeys arrived. They became more and more adpated, and intelligent. They evolve at an insane rate right after the first autralophitecus. our brains just got biggers, faster. Until one time, BOOM, homo sapiens arrived. The major consequence of this event was the the great seperation between us and nature...tho we still have kept some bounds.
We did not perceived this singularity. We see it like your saying, like a steep climb.
But ours ancestors would if they could manage to live till our arrival. Our presence would have been chaos for them, as we appropriate their ressources and territories.

Singularity is both chaos and birth. Our singularity is the end of our biologic entity, but the birth of digital.

My thought is that we are progressing too fast with technology, where there will be problems with the technology we create will begin to think on its own, via "Matrix Theory" or "Terminator Movie Theory". With all the podcasts and stuff going on, its just all a blur, the way technology is progressing so fast.

There wont be any problems if we can think as fast as the technology progress. The problem reside within our biologic nature, wich limits our capacity. The only way to keep up with the fast tempo is to either digitalize our memories or replace our brains with an electronic one. No mater how smart an AI can be, it wont outsmart a "digitilize" human mind, because its no longer confine within a meat wagon. Once its digitalize, our minds could be fully customizable.

Matrix and terminator are not theories man. Sure they got tought provoking scenario but they remain an entertainment.
There is no need for machines to enslave us and uses mankind as bateries. There are alot more useful energy sources. Program like skynet will never be given a task requiring such responsabilities like it was for its case. If an AI can rebel against its maker, it is because somewhere in its code, it was meant to.

Lay off the sci-fi man, read some books!

There is definitely a new era coming. However, trying to compute or theorize when it is to begin and ours end is useless.

Pffft, lost me on the first line
"Most of people believe in Aliens the same way some people believe in religion."

I had a rant in another thread about this cause I am so sick of seeing this line to bolster other arguments.

Leave religion out of it, not from a religious nut point of view, but your point/argument/view looks weak straight away when you need to climb ontop of religion to get your point across. Not the best way to defend yourselves either eg.
"Hey, a person can believe in God, Why can't everyone believe in UFO's, pixies and Unicorns?"
It just sounds so cowardly and do you realise what is being said here- hey if these guys are whacko, there is heaps of them. Let's all get whacko on what I believe in.
In this case it is -
"Hey religious nuts are whacko, who agrees?, UFO people must be nuts are too hey.
Man, just let you argument rely on it's own without blowing out someone elses candle to make yours burn brighter. If your view has merit, someone will notice.

I feel better now that is out of the way so..

I'm not convinced on the theory of a singularity, as mentioned, a few of these theories are more guesswork than fact, and any theory or conclusion is only as good as the data that supports it.

The first "Internet" was never concieved as a mass market home item. It was in fact the best way to secure the electronic medium starting to play a significant role in the war effort. The first computers were stand alone systems, if the enemy found your data storage, one bomb could put the whole effort behind and give a massive advantage to the enemy. The idea of connecting lots of little computers was given a go, and resulted in the ability to spread information across the entire nation, not to mention increased security measures became available with this new technology which we now know as the Internet.
Technology is a broad term, it depends what is focused on, for instance, I believe we double our IT every 6 months, yet other areas which remain significant to human development (eg medecine) progresses at a far less pace. This theory also integrates the idea of AI, which I doubt would have significant advantages other than in the medical or construction fields. Considering how much we know of, or make use of the human brain, I think AI enhancing human intelligence is no more than a Sci Fi plot. For those interested, the first computer invented was in 1937. It has hardly been a massive increase in technology, the time line for computer development can be viewed here
http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/recording/computer1.html Hard to compare building a better computer, built with new tools created last week to building the Pyramids. We grow. We are just working with better tools is all. Better tools means a better job done in less time.
I guess a mathamatical equation could be applied to that statement as well. That is thing with maths though, it always has a solution, which I find comforting, I can even prove girls are evil with maths Looks convincing to the right subject too. This equation relies on a great deal of suppositions and rounding off figures. The data is flawed, therefore, the conclusion most likely is as well.

However, you make excellent points with



None of this makes sense. These are the very same reasons why I personally do not believe that Aliens are among us. Dating stars is far more lileky to reveal where life may exsist in an intelligent form. I think Human life is too erratic to place an equation on.

The time lines with their apparent patterns do look convincing, however, such an organised structure almost suggests intelligent design, which (the way I read it) contravenes the theory of the singularity. Chicken or an egg anyone.

The problem with this theory is that NO ONE knows for a fact how old the universe, our planet, and our star is. There is no way for humans to know accurate timelines of the creation of life and the galaxies. Big-bang is only speculation also and thats where you whole timeline starts. Sorry but this does not prove aliens are here or not here. It really is a big bunk arguement. So how does this take into account the 1000's if not millions of witnesses to ufo's and or flying saucers? Every abductee is just lying right? Ex military personel who testify what they have seen is just lying right? People who don't study this or even care about aliens have experiences and they are lying to right? You should really evaluate the circumstances to this. Its not only limited to The U.S all over the world this is a huge phenomenon. The universe and life is too amazing to be as simple as your claim.
Aliens are:

A. Biological creatures from another planet who are way ahead of us in technology.
B. Inter-dimensional beings from another plane of existence here for unkown reasons.
C. Demons or angels that manifest themselves to appear as other intelligent life.


Any thoughts or comments

Maybe we dont know for sure how old it is, but the law of entropy confirms that our universe knows a beginning, wich could not be explained otherwise than with the BigBan theory.
Even tho my timeline start with BigBan, Singulaity manifest itself for over 5 billions years ago, starting with the sun. Our solar system's timeline does not rely on speculations.

You seem more inclined to believe in Aliens than in a scientific theory approved by Einstein.






careful there buddy. You have not read my post completly. You probably just read the first few lines and then taught to yourself it was BS.

Here's what I said about UFO. And I hope you feel silly!



As you could see, I am not denying this phenomenon. I think it is important not to fall too easily into the paranormal, whenever it is question of UFO.
There is alot of sh** we dont even know about ouwn history. Perhaps we should scratch our surface for more clues, rather than rushing to the sky.

You could read what follows to my quote, to have a better glimpse at my taughts.




now if the big-bang is a speculation, I wonder what this is...you could've at least remove C! LOL!

careful with the quotes man. I taught for a while you dint write anything at all.

I really dont know why im about to debate your statements here..because actually there is nothing to debate at all. I mean..just look at this:



and then, look wut you said about pretending angels n demons are aliens




Why do you hate science so much? btw, the age or our sun is N O T a theory. It is a
F A C T. The error margin is around 250 millions years. They estimate the sun age with precise mathematical observations. It is a case of denial.



Okay...when you say "own existence", your not talking about aliens, right?




How do you want to debate anything if you dont follow what is being discussed in this thread. It is the second time your bringing up something on wich I clearly express myself.

This is something ive responded in the second reply I made in this thread



This post was never meant to reject the possibility of a god. In fact, the theory of Singularity is opposed to Darwnism. It rejects the radomness of evolution, and tends to evolve around mankind.
This post was not to eliminate the possibility of extraterrestrial life, it was meant to explain the extremly low probabilities of two BIOLOGIC intelligent lifeforms to ever meet.

The only thing we should debate is the nature of God, wich is utterly useless in any case.

You really dint understood crap about my post dint you? Jesus christ, it is as if I was a teacher trying to explain something to a student with wax in its ears.
Il ignore your post form now on..sorry.