Full Version: Who are you to say Time actually exists?
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Metaphysics, Psychology & Psychic Phenomena
I`m new on here and I was just pondering to myself, When did an ancient person just "come up" with the concept of time? I dont think it`s likely that someone would just start counting the seconds(which they would have no idea of)until their death, how would they keep track of time? and when did the idea of a millenium come abroad? the one person that "thought" of time would`ve had to pass along all the correct knowledge of counting it. and who was counting time for a million years?! There is no way time is correct unless it is infinite, and im assuming there was once a time when there was absolutely nothing, I`m also assuming there will be ANOTHER time when there will be absolutely nothing at all(eg.the end of the universe perhaps?), but even then there will be NOTHING, and NOTHING is still SOMETHING.
Its 12:54 at my house. 
that forum still didnt answer a few things, its a question people will keep asking until they go back in time or something along those lines lol
The concept of time is a dubious matter at best. Yet. Who is to challenge the fact that the Earth rotates producing day and night? The tilt on its axis gives us the change of seasons. Even the healthiest of folks develop wrinkles and and lose thier hair as the years plod on. Is this not the very evidence of time? Just thinking out loud. Again. 
If our ancestor never seen any changes.. then no one have invented this time.
"The concept of time is a dubious matter at best. Yet. Who is to challenge the fact that the Earth rotates producing day and night? The tilt on its axis gives us the change of seasons. Even the healthiest of folks develop wrinkles and and lose thier hair as the years plod on. Is this not the very evidence of time? Just thinking out loud. Again."
- i like that answer
"When did an ancient person just "come up" with the concept of time? I dont think it`s likely that someone would just start counting the seconds(which they would have no idea of)until their death, how would they keep track of time? and when did the idea of a millenium come abroad?"
I feel pretty much that it wasnt just one person saying "hey wait theres 60 secs in a min, blah blah" from the point man became concious or at least gained enough intelligence to realise the seasons change, day and night, etc. they would track this and it grew from there.
- i like that answer
"When did an ancient person just "come up" with the concept of time? I dont think it`s likely that someone would just start counting the seconds(which they would have no idea of)until their death, how would they keep track of time? and when did the idea of a millenium come abroad?"
I feel pretty much that it wasnt just one person saying "hey wait theres 60 secs in a min, blah blah" from the point man became concious or at least gained enough intelligence to realise the seasons change, day and night, etc. they would track this and it grew from there.
THESE are the type of answers im looking for 
thanks dudes!
thanks dudes!
QUOTE(420ZACH420 @ Apr 25 2006, 11:44 PM) [snapback]1163932[/snapback]
I`m new on here and I was just pondering to myself, When did an ancient person just "come up" with the concept of time? I dont think it`s likely that someone would just start counting the seconds(which they would have no idea of)until their death, how would they keep track of time? and when did the idea of a millenium come abroad? the one person that "thought" of time would`ve had to pass along all the correct knowledge of counting it. and who was counting time for a million years?! There is no way time is correct unless it is infinite, and im assuming there was once a time when there was absolutely nothing, I`m also assuming there will be ANOTHER time when there will be absolutely nothing at all(eg.the end of the universe perhaps?), but even then there will be NOTHING, and NOTHING is still SOMETHING.
actually nothing is nothing. it has a designation that we give to it, yet it itself, in abstraction anyways (does nothing actually exist?) does not equal any value. nothing , the lack of all perception, thought , and self realisation is impossible to comprehend. but that does not mean nothing equals something. zero does not equal one........
The universe does not measure itself in time as we measure it. For animals, for the supernatural world, I believe that time is only a continuous thing with no ending and no beginning.
Time, as we know it, is made up of moments. The sun rises in a moment, it sets in a moment, we wake in a moment, we sleep in a moment, we eat, play, work, cry and smile in moments. In this way, time exists, it's meaning being a calculation from the beginning of something to it's end, but it only exsist in our consious life, we are only consious of it because we have invented a chart, if you will, to measure these moment, to put them in a place.
The numbers, the dates, the years, do not exsist, they are a fragment of human inventiveness, the need to live on schedule. Time, however, does exsist, in moments and in our minds.
This is the deepest I can go with time right now. I perfer to remain surface level when it comes to things such as time....to ponder time is always a circle of thought, you always return to where you began, and this annoys me. It's like running down a hallway to find a door and open it only to discover the door leads right back to where the hall began. This is frustrating to me, for I wish, often, to find a side door along the way that opens into some universal truth...but I cannot.
As far as who "invented" time. The greeks came up with one of the first calanders, as well as a way to measure the day by the position of the sun. And it actually is likely that someone was just sitting around thinking of how one could measure the moments of everyday life, and, suddenly, they thought "oh, well, if I take this thingy here and watch the shadow the sun makes upon it, and give each different position of the shadow a name....". I mean, after all, Newton was just sitting under a tree way back when and an Apple (*giggles) fell on his head and POOF! the idea of gravity.
Time, as we know it, is made up of moments. The sun rises in a moment, it sets in a moment, we wake in a moment, we sleep in a moment, we eat, play, work, cry and smile in moments. In this way, time exists, it's meaning being a calculation from the beginning of something to it's end, but it only exsist in our consious life, we are only consious of it because we have invented a chart, if you will, to measure these moment, to put them in a place.
The numbers, the dates, the years, do not exsist, they are a fragment of human inventiveness, the need to live on schedule. Time, however, does exsist, in moments and in our minds.
This is the deepest I can go with time right now. I perfer to remain surface level when it comes to things such as time....to ponder time is always a circle of thought, you always return to where you began, and this annoys me. It's like running down a hallway to find a door and open it only to discover the door leads right back to where the hall began. This is frustrating to me, for I wish, often, to find a side door along the way that opens into some universal truth...but I cannot.
As far as who "invented" time. The greeks came up with one of the first calanders, as well as a way to measure the day by the position of the sun. And it actually is likely that someone was just sitting around thinking of how one could measure the moments of everyday life, and, suddenly, they thought "oh, well, if I take this thingy here and watch the shadow the sun makes upon it, and give each different position of the shadow a name....". I mean, after all, Newton was just sitting under a tree way back when and an Apple (*giggles) fell on his head and POOF! the idea of gravity.
QUOTE(Apple @ Apr 26 2006, 05:12 PM) [snapback]1165097[/snapback]
In this way, time exists, it's meaning being a calculation from the beginning of something to it's end
but nobody has any idea of when time started, how could it be a calculation from the beginning of something to its end if we dont know when it started?
QUOTE(420ZACH420 @ Apr 27 2006, 11:11 AM) [snapback]1165440[/snapback]
but nobody has any idea of when time started, how could it be a calculation from the beginning of something to its end if we dont know when it started?
Intresting You posting about time and yours 11th post.. posted at 11:11..
I am intrested to see this 11:11.. so i noticed it.. and for You that was nothing.. no meaning.. ofcourse Your GMT differs !
So who created time they have value for it... who don't want that... no value..(just like money) And who want it.. still not able to take its own way.. need reasoning..
"but nobody has any idea of when time started, how could it be a calculation from the beginning of something to its end if we dont know when it started?"
you cant, like Apple said "to ponder time is always a circle of thought, you always return to where you began" the truth is your never going to know when time began and your never going to know when it'll end but for the sake of knowledge we put human numbers and thought on moments so that we can keep records. Time does exist, if it didnt then we wouldnt be controlled by its rules
you cant, like Apple said "to ponder time is always a circle of thought, you always return to where you began" the truth is your never going to know when time began and your never going to know when it'll end but for the sake of knowledge we put human numbers and thought on moments so that we can keep records. Time does exist, if it didnt then we wouldnt be controlled by its rules
In the beggining there was darkness and no time then came the creation of everything and time started ticking and its constant.
QUOTE
In the beggining there was darkness and no time then came the creation of everything and time started ticking and its constant.
Well, darkness is something. Try to picture nothing
Nothing is nothing. Creation comes from nothing. Unless time and creation once started we would not have reached our time. Therefore time cannot be infinite backward and there has to have been a start. Gets you nuts by thinking like this (off topic: thinking like this makes the idea of a creator more likely than random accidentals. someone must have started the chain reaction)
Bronze Age Sky Disc Deciphered
3,600 years ago, this sky disc was used as an astronomical clock
Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: 3,600 years ago, this sky disc was used as an astronomical clock
A group of German scientists has deciphered the meaning of one of the most spectacular archeological discoveries in recent years: The mystery-shrouded sky disc of Nebra was used as an advanced astronomical clock.
The purpose of the 3,600 year-old sky disc of Nebra, which caused a world-wide sensation when it was brought to the attention of the German public in 2002, is no longer a matter of speculation.
A group of German scholars who studied this archaeological gem has discovered evidence which suggests that the disc was used as a complex astronomical clock for the harmonization of solar and lunar calendars.
"This is a clear expansion of what we knew about the meaning and function of the sky disc," said archeologist Harald Meller.
A thirteenth month?
The sky disc of Nebra was not all moonshineBildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: The sky disc of Nebra was not all moonshine
Unlike the solar calendar, which indicates the position of the earth as it revolves around the sun, the lunar calendar is based on the phases of the moon. A lunar year is eleven days shorter than the solar year because 12 synodic months, or 12 returns of the moon to the new phase, take only 354 days.
The sky disc of Nebra was used to determine if and when a thirteenth month -- the so-called intercalary month -- should be added to a lunar year to keep the lunar calendar in sync with the seasons.
"The functioning of this clock was probably known to a very small group of people," Meller said.
Bronze Age science
A slice of prehistory for romantic sky gazersBildunterschrift: A slice of prehistory for romantic sky gazers
The 32-centimeter-wide (12.6-inch) bronze disc with gold-leaf appliqués representing the sun, the moon, and the stars is the oldest visual representation of the cosmos known to date. A cluster of seven dots has previously been interpreted as the Pleiades constellation as it appeared 3,600 years ago.
The explanation of the disc's purpose sheds new light on the astronomical knowledge and abilities of the Bronze Age people, who used a combination of solar and lunar calendars as important indicators for agricultural seasons and passage of time.
"The sensation lies in the fact that the Bronze Age people managed to harmonize the solar and lunar years. We never thought they would have managed that," Meller said.
According to astronomer Wolfhard Schlosser of the Rurh University at Bochum, the Bronze Age sky gazers already knew what the Babylonians would describe only a thousand years later.
"Whether this was a local discovery, or whether the knowledge came from afar, is still not clear," Schlosser said.
From Saxony-Anhalt to Babylon
The sky disc of Nebra was found near Europe's oldest observatory in GoseckBildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: The sky disc of Nebra was found near Europe's oldest observatory in Goseck
Ever since the disc was discovered, archaeologists and astronomers have been puzzled by the shape of the moon as it appears on the disc.
"I wanted to explain the thickness of the crescent on the sky disc of Nebra because it is not a new moon phase," said Hamburg astronomer Ralph Hansen.
In his quest to explain why the Nebra astronomers created a sky map with a four or five days old moon on it, Hansen consulted the "Mul-Apin" collection of Babylonian documents from the 7th and 6th centuries B.C.
These cuneiform writings represent, according to Hansen, a compendium of "astronomic knowledge from the earliest times." They also contain a calculation rule for the crescent that looks strikingly similar to the one from Nebra.
According to the ancient Babylonian rule, a thirteenth month should only be added to the lunar calendar only when one sees the constellation of the moon and the Pleiades exactly as they appear on the Nebra sky disc.
Knowledge comes and goes
The sky disc of Nebra was first discovered by treasure huntersBildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: The sky disc of Nebra was first discovered by treasure hunters
The Bronze Age astronomers would hold the Nebra clock against the sky and observe the position of the celestial objects. The intercalary month was inserted when what they saw in the sky corresponded to the map on the disc they were holding in their hands. This happened every two to three years.
But the German researchers also discovered that in the 400 years that the disc was in use, its status had evolved. The perforations on the edge of the object as well as a ship that was later added to the map suggest that the knowledge about the lunar calendar's shortage of days was lost along the way.
"That means, that in the end the disk became a cult object," Meller said.
The disc was found in 1999 by two previously convicted treasure looters. It was seized by the authorities in 2002 along with other Bronze Age objects in a police operation in Switzerland. link
3,600 years ago, this sky disc was used as an astronomical clock
Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: 3,600 years ago, this sky disc was used as an astronomical clock
A group of German scientists has deciphered the meaning of one of the most spectacular archeological discoveries in recent years: The mystery-shrouded sky disc of Nebra was used as an advanced astronomical clock.
The purpose of the 3,600 year-old sky disc of Nebra, which caused a world-wide sensation when it was brought to the attention of the German public in 2002, is no longer a matter of speculation.
A group of German scholars who studied this archaeological gem has discovered evidence which suggests that the disc was used as a complex astronomical clock for the harmonization of solar and lunar calendars.
"This is a clear expansion of what we knew about the meaning and function of the sky disc," said archeologist Harald Meller.
A thirteenth month?
The sky disc of Nebra was not all moonshineBildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: The sky disc of Nebra was not all moonshine
Unlike the solar calendar, which indicates the position of the earth as it revolves around the sun, the lunar calendar is based on the phases of the moon. A lunar year is eleven days shorter than the solar year because 12 synodic months, or 12 returns of the moon to the new phase, take only 354 days.
The sky disc of Nebra was used to determine if and when a thirteenth month -- the so-called intercalary month -- should be added to a lunar year to keep the lunar calendar in sync with the seasons.
"The functioning of this clock was probably known to a very small group of people," Meller said.
Bronze Age science
A slice of prehistory for romantic sky gazersBildunterschrift: A slice of prehistory for romantic sky gazers
The 32-centimeter-wide (12.6-inch) bronze disc with gold-leaf appliqués representing the sun, the moon, and the stars is the oldest visual representation of the cosmos known to date. A cluster of seven dots has previously been interpreted as the Pleiades constellation as it appeared 3,600 years ago.
The explanation of the disc's purpose sheds new light on the astronomical knowledge and abilities of the Bronze Age people, who used a combination of solar and lunar calendars as important indicators for agricultural seasons and passage of time.
"The sensation lies in the fact that the Bronze Age people managed to harmonize the solar and lunar years. We never thought they would have managed that," Meller said.
According to astronomer Wolfhard Schlosser of the Rurh University at Bochum, the Bronze Age sky gazers already knew what the Babylonians would describe only a thousand years later.
"Whether this was a local discovery, or whether the knowledge came from afar, is still not clear," Schlosser said.
From Saxony-Anhalt to Babylon
The sky disc of Nebra was found near Europe's oldest observatory in GoseckBildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: The sky disc of Nebra was found near Europe's oldest observatory in Goseck
Ever since the disc was discovered, archaeologists and astronomers have been puzzled by the shape of the moon as it appears on the disc.
"I wanted to explain the thickness of the crescent on the sky disc of Nebra because it is not a new moon phase," said Hamburg astronomer Ralph Hansen.
In his quest to explain why the Nebra astronomers created a sky map with a four or five days old moon on it, Hansen consulted the "Mul-Apin" collection of Babylonian documents from the 7th and 6th centuries B.C.
These cuneiform writings represent, according to Hansen, a compendium of "astronomic knowledge from the earliest times." They also contain a calculation rule for the crescent that looks strikingly similar to the one from Nebra.
According to the ancient Babylonian rule, a thirteenth month should only be added to the lunar calendar only when one sees the constellation of the moon and the Pleiades exactly as they appear on the Nebra sky disc.
Knowledge comes and goes
The sky disc of Nebra was first discovered by treasure huntersBildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: The sky disc of Nebra was first discovered by treasure hunters
The Bronze Age astronomers would hold the Nebra clock against the sky and observe the position of the celestial objects. The intercalary month was inserted when what they saw in the sky corresponded to the map on the disc they were holding in their hands. This happened every two to three years.
But the German researchers also discovered that in the 400 years that the disc was in use, its status had evolved. The perforations on the edge of the object as well as a ship that was later added to the map suggest that the knowledge about the lunar calendar's shortage of days was lost along the way.
"That means, that in the end the disk became a cult object," Meller said.
The disc was found in 1999 by two previously convicted treasure looters. It was seized by the authorities in 2002 along with other Bronze Age objects in a police operation in Switzerland. link
Imagine how hard it would be if there was no marking of time, but everyone existed out of pure instinctiveness and primal hive mind conciousness. We would have to have time measured by everything we all do the same. So we could keep track of each-other and try to prevent chaos. Every time someone did the same thing as another person does, we remember what time it is when it happens in such a routine, there would be an enormous gap to fill up with every time we don't do something the same way.
So, in nature, think of all the things/experiences that are not routine and totally random. There would be no lottery, because it would be controlling a random event. It would be illegal for everyone to have a different amount of money on certain levels. Everyone would have economic restrictions. Anything to keep nature from taking over the machinery than the other way around though.
Think about it.... how whacked!!
So, in nature, think of all the things/experiences that are not routine and totally random. There would be no lottery, because it would be controlling a random event. It would be illegal for everyone to have a different amount of money on certain levels. Everyone would have economic restrictions. Anything to keep nature from taking over the machinery than the other way around though.
Think about it.... how whacked!!
QUOTE(timetraveller @ Apr 27 2006, 06:55 PM) [snapback]1165647[/snapback]
Therefore time cannot be infinite backward and there has to have been a start.
If we are going to end up in nothing.. and that nothing going to start a creation with time.. then it is infinite.
we age. thats REAL time.
when the earth orbits the sun, the moon orbit the earth. that is REAL time.
clocks with numbers are just ways that lets us humans interpret time as WE know it.
this is a kind of perpetual "reality" and it is measured by time. if you get what i mean
when the earth orbits the sun, the moon orbit the earth. that is REAL time.
clocks with numbers are just ways that lets us humans interpret time as WE know it.
this is a kind of perpetual "reality" and it is measured by time. if you get what i mean
QUOTE(esotericEntity @ Apr 29 2006, 10:51 PM) [snapback]1168696[/snapback]
we age. thats REAL time.
when the earth orbits the sun, the moon orbit the earth. that is REAL time.
clocks with numbers are just ways that lets us humans interpret time as WE know it.
this is a kind of perpetual "reality" and it is measured by time. if you get what i mean
And yet time as we know it allows us to guage not only what might be considered "Real" time, and the passage there-of; but also many other things..
Such as by using our concept of time and speed to measure light-years to find out our distance from another celestial body..
If we can do "Real" things with our concept of time and space, then it stands to reason that our measurement of time is just as real as time itself..
QUOTE(Falco Rex @ Apr 29 2006, 11:21 PM) [snapback]1168726[/snapback]
And yet time as we know it allows us to guage not only what might be considered "Real" time, and the passage there-of; but also many other things..
Such as by using our concept of time and speed to measure light-years to find out our distance from another celestial body..
If we can do "Real" things with our concept of time and space, then it stands to reason that our measurement of time is just as real as time itself..
well i guess the only thing to say is that TIME IS ESSENTIAL and it is a sort of infinite force. something intangible and yet very powerful.
well for those who are deeply religous. time IS finite
QUOTE(420ZACH420 @ Apr 25 2006, 11:44 PM) [snapback]1163932[/snapback]
I`m new on here and I was just pondering to myself, When did an ancient person just "come up" with the concept of time? I dont think it`s likely that someone would just start counting the seconds(which they would have no idea of)until their death, how would they keep track of time? and when did the idea of a millenium come abroad? the one person that "thought" of time would`ve had to pass along all the correct knowledge of counting it. and who was counting time for a million years?! There is no way time is correct unless it is infinite, and im assuming there was once a time when there was absolutely nothing, I`m also assuming there will be ANOTHER time when there will be absolutely nothing at all(eg.the end of the universe perhaps?), but even then there will be NOTHING, and NOTHING is still SOMETHING.
so who am i to say time exists. I am a human and the aging process shows that time is real.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.