the ancient greek`s idea of how the universe was created sounds like something my buddy Tyler would say after snorting an 8 ball. hahaha complete and utter bulls***. the christian idea is just as hilarious, yea yea yea, if god created the universe, who created god, and who created the "thing" that created god, and who created the "thing" that created the "thing" that created god, it goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on, until someone smart enough actually declares religion to be a hoax and the bible to be a tale of fiction from way back then or something. c`maaaaan you`ve never thought church`s needing donations to be a little odd?

someone is on crack.

You are so smart mate, wow.

You are going through the woods and you find watch. You will belive it was act of nature not a man?? Wow, congratulations mate! You begin to thing thanks to.....volcano, microorganisms, .....or just you want so? wow

What? lol, first of all im 16 years old, im interested in this type of stuff, but not very intelligent with it. im just trying to stir things up, get a few questions answered and asked.

OK mate, sorry wor my words. I am just saying to read some books. You will see it is just too perfect from atom, parts of atom to brain, human brain, ....you know.

arguing that the universe is perfect and therefore there is a god is a logical fallicy.
we exist as an outgrowth of what the universe eventually became. it all fits together because its all part of the same beginning.
and as for that beginning--even if you could argue intelligent design-WHICH IS A HUGE ASSUMPTION--you cant argue that any religion on the planet now or ever represents the very same "being" that created it.

if god exists, god is sacred OUR IDEAS ABOUT GOD ARE NOT.

they are simply a hypothesis that should be continuously revised like any other,
in the face of EVIDENCE.

or else you make religion into nothing more than a fairy tale and a means by which the greedy and sociopathic control humanity. (which is what all religion has unfortunately become)
any belief that asks you not to use your capacity to think wants you to be a slave.

if god is the ultimate answer then it fears NO question. only liars do.
and all the churchs are liars either because they want money and power or because their cowardice never lets them question the lie.

i feel it a great injustice that the majority of religious people ( who just want to feel like their a part of something) have been exploited and led so far astray by such selfish leaders.


the only real answer is : I DONT KNOW

any other answer is pride and vanity
(and we dont like those do we?)

Actually Edgar Allan Poe, Marcus Aurelius ( great roman ceasar ), Sigmund Freud ( psychiatrist), and other influential people, especially mathematicians are said to of done Opium. It helps to open the mind, and think " outside " the bodys boundaries.

well i tell you one thing either their brain capacity was wery low or that little thing called ganja was popular back in the day, i mean look at old Homers creations, he mentions Wierd food that odyseys shipmates eat and become pigs, lol, and i mean we belive the troy was real hahaha,

as for church thing, i never could figure out how come in England and all over Europe people used to PAY to have their sins removed ?? after they figured out its al bogus they still went back to church ???

or how come Prists get to pull "MICHAEL JACKSON" every once in a while, i mean if you are of such religious importance that means you must belive in good, and if you have read about all the things waiting for people with such sins on the other side of gate Edit:not suitable.

Freeminded answer nothing but my opinions

ummm the very creation of any ancient religion was based on "wise-men" gettin leathered on extremely poweful hallucinogens and more or less every stage of human evolution since neanderthals and backwards has been nothing but extremely potent abuses of magic mushroom. The Aztecs and Mayans were probably the worst of offenders of amphetamine abuse and the native americans like their fair share of peyote and crack err i mean peace pipes. So aye, drugs for everyone.

"even if you could argue intelligent design-WHICH IS A HUGE ASSUMPTION"

weeeell is it as big as an assumption as saying it is all a coincdence?, i mean, the universe is a fine peice of engineering no matter what way you like at it.

The problem with this argument is that you have to assume a design exists in order to prove that it does. If there is no design, then there is no universal standard for what a "good" or "bad" universe might be like. For instance, it is often suggested that the earth must have been designed by a higher power, because only the earth has conditions just right for humans. This is nonsense because in the absense of a creator humans would have evolved to fit the conditions on the earth. Was earth designed to suit humans, or did humans develop because of what the earth is like? Clearly, this doesn't refute the idea that the earth was designed by a higher power, but neither does it support it. The same holds true for the universe. In the absense of a creator, life would evolve to fit whatever conditions were present. If the force of gravity were slightly greater than it is, or if the speed of light were slower, or if the electromagnetic force was weaker, then the universe would be a vastly different place and life as we know it probably could not exist. But this proves nothing. If conditions were different, then they would be different. The fact that human life exists as it does in no way demonstrates that there is any reason, order, or logic to the universe beyond simple natural laws.

Again, I must stress that this does not prove the universe was not created. It simply fails to support the argument that it was.

-Pilgrim

yes your quite correct,the use of mind altering drugs has been common to mankind for at least the last 2,000 years. Most of our greatest writers thinkers and artists made use of them which resulted in some of the greatest works of literature,visible art,music and thought being set down. Opium in its variants, especially Laudanum, were in common use and could be bought over the counter from most apothecaries in the 19th century in Europe.
So far as 'God' is concerned. Dont you find it odd that so many great physical scientists and philosophers spent so much of their time attempting to disprove the idea of intelligent design yet towards the end of their lives became passionate believers in it?
Einstein spent the last half of his life and ruined his credibility as a scientist trying to prove that there was a 'design and common order' to the universe. Darwin spent the last half of his life in mental torment as he struggled with his theory of natural selection as he could never find proof in the fossil record to support his ideas. Isaac Newton drove himself mad dabbling in Alchemy and religious theories.
As far as established religion rejecting science. Well this is not correct as the Catholic Church became the greatest sponsor of the physical sciences after the middle ages and was invigorated thru the 18th century which became known as the 'age of reason'.By the 19th century there few within the established church who persisted in the idea of a world created in 6 days.

the age of enlightenment had nothign to do with the catholic church, we'd be in different solar systems by now no thanks to them. Islam was basicaly one of the major stepping stones of scientific knowledge there was for early Europe, seeing as how they conquered spain. As for god who knows eh, we never will know this life or the next. But a sublimal order of existence cannot be denied, to many patterns in nature exist, why?, mostly to do with gravity binding them into said patterns, but who knows eh. Its futile.

Troy does exist

and for your info the ancient greeks tech is all around us and opinons change if we had no understanding of everything around us i am pretty sure we would come up with wierd ideas to. and finally explain to me what created the universe if you know everything beacause you have just been outsmarted by a 13 year old

oh and crack could not be grown in the Greek Mts

Who says we believe in the one true God? There could have been many more before Him. Perhaps he's just taken up the role because the others grew tired or died? Like an ancient race of creationism beings.

Yes.. whoever come here can't stay here for ever.. they should pass it to others..

Enlightenment : This is my gift, this is my curse, whom am i, no one.

"c`maaaaan you`ve never thought church`s needing donations to be a little odd?"

Actually no...the pastor needs to eat and the water needs to run, nothing comes without a cost. Yeah their are those who abuse the power but thats with anything.

if they passed it down to others i`m pretty sure they would have mentioned something about it in the bible, and they always refer to one god, and oh by the way i just had to say that its f***ing wicked how ancient people got stoned as f*** and thought up all this sh**, people that do this today get institutionalised and labeled insane.

Do You beleive in one father story?

i cant believe this wasnt spotted by a mod sooner

Not only is the topic title inapropriate, it seems to have turned to a discussion on god, not any ancients there are 2 spirituality boards for that.

this thread is closed
no drug references in titles, or discussion of the use of them 420ZACH420