ok first of all i would like to point out how naive gwyny and her ranting on about this thread is.
evolution is supported by evedence and a lot of it, the bible is just a story supported only by believers and obscure references and interpretations. the truth and fact of it all is that all of the matter in the universe has always existed in one form or another, mater cannot be created or destroyed , only change states or break down to simpler elements, the simplest element being hydrogen the fuel that powers our sun and many other stars. heavier more complex elements are made when simple ones are fused together under great heat and preasure.

ok that will be all for today kids physics class is over till next time.......lol

Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion. [1 Timothy 1.7]
Saint Augustine (A.D. 354-430)

This reminds me of a quote from the Bible:

2 Thessalonians 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, SIGNS, AND LYING WONDERS,
10 and with all unrighteous DECEPTION amon those who PERISH (animals), because they did not receive the LOVE OF THE TRUTH, that they might be saved.
11 Adn for this reason God will sedn them STRONG DELUSION, that they should BELIEVE A LIE, that they all may ber condemned who did not believe the truth but had PLEASURE IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.


Evolution is not fact. The evidence that they have doesn't support fact of evolution, but possibility of evolution. Its the people that would rather believe anything than what God wants them to do that would accept evolution as fact. People don't want to follow God, and for this fact, they would accept anything that would SEEM to prove the Bible wrong. And for this, God sends them more delusion, for they knew the truth and still rejected it. And if evolution was a fact, they'd proabably teach it in elementary, middleschool, and highschool. But its not a fact, its a possibility (but not to me, just an lie).

Which was?????

Gwyny, please read the following if you're as open-minded as you say:

Frequently Asked Questions About Evolution
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/faq/

*ESSAY V: EVOLUTION FOR CHRISTIANS
by Christian Robert J. Schneider
http://community.berea.edu/scienceandfaith/essay05.asp

Intelligent Design
http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/intelligent_design.htm

Intelligent Design: An Ambiguous Assault on Evolution
http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/050922_ID_main.html

The Top 10 Intelligent Designs (or Creation Myths)
http://www.livescience.com/history/top10_i...nt_designs.html

Top 10 Missing Links
http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/to...ssinglinks.html

Christian apologetic site Answers in Genesis says this a question creationists should not use!

*Arguments we think creationists should NOT use
http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/...nt_use.asp#apes

*Scientific America: 15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense
Opponents of evolution want to make a place for creationism by tearing down real science, but their arguments don't hold up
By John Rennie (editor in chief of Scientific American)
http://www.angelfire.com/ok5/pearly/htmls/gop-evolution.html

*National Center for Science Education (NCSE)
http://www.ncseweb.org/

*The New Yorker: DEVOLUTION: Why intelligent design isn’t.
by H. ALLEN ORR
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050530fa_fact

Evolution
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/index.html

Evolution multimedia library
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/index.html

Sean

I wonder if he realises what he's just said...

"People give ear to an upstart astrologer who strove to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon. Whoever wishes to appear clever must devise some new system, which is of all systems is of course the very best. This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred Scripture tells us that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth."

god tells me nothing because he simply does not exist

You're wrong.

there is a heck of alot more evidence for evolution then for your creation story...
and as for evolution in school, where were you in science class???
or did you go to a religious school who down played bioology?

prove it.

Very well. I will prove that you are wrong, and in order to prove it, you must answer these questions:

1. Do YOU have any proof that god doesnt exist?

. the bible is nothing more than the writings of an ancient culture borrowing from much earlier civilizations for thier religious beliefs and doctrine which has much more to do with superstition and ignorance of nature.

Look around . All of creation is proof that he exists! Oh, and there are the prophecies, which fortold world history hundreds to thousands of years before it happened. He shows us where we are going. Where does evolution shows us going? And to what details does it state for the actions that we apparently to nature we are already determined to make as a species? Like which government will be around in the next few years and what it will do? Evolution only claims to show you where you come from, but not where you are precisely going. Thus God is superior to evolution, for God knows both where we came from and where we are going. This is a future we can look forward to.

god is a superstition ,nothing more.

next question please

So if Gywny and Bluefinger decide to have children, and the child comes out looking like an African, or an Asian, Hispanic, or Semetic, then its OK because "its gods will"?

Look around . All of creation is proof that he exists!

This is why these kinds of topics are useless from the start, its fine to debate but this has turned into a reason for everyone to take shots at everyone else for not sharing their beliefs.
The fact is that Christians will never use a biology book to explain life just as an atheist will never quote a Bible to explain existance. Blue and Gwyny have alot of faith, its something to be admired that someone has found so much internal peace, not something that you should try to change or rather tear down with the amount of disrespect shown in the posts.
People will always believe in God just like some people will always believe in evolution, why argue about it...it gets us nowhere because one side will never see it from the other.

god is a superstition ,nothing more.

next question please

This is why these kinds of topics are useless from the start, its fine to debate but this has turned into a reason for everyone to take shots at everyone else for not sharing their beliefs.
The fact is that Christians will never use a biology book to explain life just as an atheist will never quote a Bible to explain existance. Blue and Gwyny have alot of faith, its something to be admired that someone has found so much internal peace, not something that you should try to change or rather tear down with the amount of disrespect shown in the posts.
People will always believe in God just like some people will always believe in evolution, why argue about it...it gets us nowhere because one side will never see it from the other.

Do you have any proof that god doesn't exist?

Do you have any proof that god does exist!?

QUOTE(A_DOZEN_FURIES @ May 7 2006, 06:40 PM)

This is why these kinds of topics are useless from the start, its fine to debate but this has turned into a reason for everyone to take shots at everyone else for not sharing their beliefs.
The fact is that Christians will never use a biology book to explain life just as an atheist will never quote a Bible to explain existance. Blue and Gwyny have alot of faith, its something to be admired that someone has found so much internal peace, not something that you should try to change or rather tear down with the amount of disrespect shown in the posts.
People will always believe in God just like some people will always believe in evolution, why argue about it...it gets us nowhere because one side will never see it from the other.


Thats funny cuz I do believe in God but I also believe in evolution..there are such things as religious scientists

Page 3, we share the same beliefs. However my point is that there is no need to tear down someones personal belief, where does that get anyone. I may be wrong, but i get the impression that these posts are not constructive critisism about ones beliefs mostly from the attacks on the intelligence of gwyny and blue. It seems to me that the real argument once again became "do you believe" rather then why doesnt evolution work for you, which are similar questions but far from the same.

LOL

I think you will find furies, that EVERY discussion on this board comes down to "god is real VS no he isn't!" arguements.

No matter what the original point of discussion, it devolves down to that. Its just a question of how many pages it takes to get there...........

where is god now and where has he been? the fact is he doesn't exist except in the minds of believers. the very belief in a being of this kind is pure superstition. the stories contained in the bible were taken from older pagan myths and twisted to fit with the culture of the time. the bible is not based on christian beliefs, it is a blend of plagerism and folk tales taken from other cultures, therefore your belief is based on flawed information and lies told by suprstitious people.

JMPD1 Posted Today, 01:03 PM
LOL

I think you will find furies, that EVERY discussion on this board comes down to "god is real VS no he isn't!" arguements.

No matter what the original point of discussion, it devolves down to that. Its just a question of how many pages it takes to get there...........

And has there ever been one time in those fights where one side has relinquished their beliefs. Im guessing no.

oh no, don't get mistaken. The science class doesn't neccessarily support the evolution theory any more than it does the big bang theory. Though they may ALUDE to it, they don't prove it in the open. And just because there is more evidence (according to some), it doesn't mean that evolution is fact. If there is any inconsistency with ALL the evidence, then it isn't fact. Thus you evolution on by faith, not fact. But you believe in it, and thus to you it is fact. But it doesn't say that for the rest of the world. I believe the Bible has more evidence than evolution, and I take God's words to be fact. Is it really fact? Like evolution claims, we'll see in time.

god is not an Omnipotent being outside in the universe, god is inside of you in your mind.

Why are you asking me that? I'm not the one claiming to have proof that god exists.

Post #160 Per: Stellar:

Very well. I will prove that you are wrong, and in order to prove it, you must answer these questions:

1. Do YOU have any proof that god doesn't exist?

it isn't my job to prove god doesn't exist, my opinion is based on observation and study. god is not an omnipitant being outside in the universe, god is inside of you in your mind.

Why am I asking you that!?

Why am I asking you that!? Try to keep up dear.

Found this on one of the links to an evolution faq a few pages back:

11.Does evolution prove there is no God?

No. Many people, from evolutionary biologists to important religious figures like Pope John Paul II, contend that the time-tested theory of evolution does not refute the presence of God. They acknowledge that evolution is the description of a process that governs the development of life on Earth. Like other scientific theories, including Copernican theory, atomic theory, and the germ theory of disease, evolution deals only with objects, events, and processes in the material world. Science has nothing to say one way or the other about the existence of God or about people's spiritual beliefs.

Can we stop the fighting now....pretty please

Look around . All of creation is proof that he exists! Oh, and there are the prophecies, which fortold world history hundreds to thousands of years before it happened. He shows us where we are going. Where does evolution shows us going? And to what details does it state for the actions that we apparently to nature we are already determined to make as a species? Like which government will be around in the next few years and what it will do? Evolution only claims to show you where you come from, but not where you are precisely going. Thus God is superior to evolution, for God knows both where we came from and where we are going. This is a future we can look forward to.

Umm you should be keeping up LOL...what Stellar is doing is trying to get Valad to understand that No one can prove God exists and no one can prove he doesn't exist...but Valad wont admit that plain and simple

I guess that post doesnt apply to you, but there are a ton of people around that are under the impression that evolution proves that God doesnt exist. I just wanna send the message that believing in one doesnt mean you have to give up believing in the other. Most peoples opinion on God would not change even if evolution was 100% proven and accepted. Thats all im trying to say.

My point is that I asked that question because Stellar is utilizing the same tactics as usual when they make absolutes against someone else's opinion. ("you're wrong", and the like. ) Stellar defers those he says stuff like that to, when asked to support the absolute assertion, with; "I'll answer your question if you answer this one first...."

I know, I've encountered it personally. That is the point and if one pays attention they see the pattern Stellar is prone to.

Not discussion, but rather trolling.

there are a ton of people around that are under the impression that evolution proves that God doesn't exist.

And I've still not seen you answer my question... You ask me to prove why the person is wrong, last time I've done so, even though you hesitated to answer my question...
Lmfao, I've done it twice, so now its a "pattern"?
Trolling? Me? I'm not the one that goes around preaching "God exists" or "God doesn't exist" in absolutes... when someone gets angry at me for saying "You're wrong" in absolutes though, he then understands how others might feel when he uses absolutes. As for this case, not me nor vlad were in any sort of flaming match, there was no trolling whatsoever... You on the other hand...

If by a remote chance if science were to prove that (and it is not trying to) God does not exist that will not stop people from believing in him.