So you think its a shame we may well have came from an ape??? my gawd Blue that has to be a silly reason to get all rowdy over it....you cant really prove if we evolved or not...you have a lil book and you say its all the proof you need...well I dont think for what you believe is a SHAME...

my point of view is its a shame the guy that wrote the bible didnt give God enough credit...he made God out to be lazy....If God made man in a flash from dust...then why couldnt he have made a few more??? and split them all up from the start???..that would have made more sense to me...instead of what that man wrote ....God could very well have made thousands more if doing it all was so easy??...And how would the guy that wrote all of this KNOW for sure???...........Just think...if that man that wrote all of this..had of written that God did created all kind of humans from the beginning....and thats how we all came about..which would have sounded a lot more believable.......then there might have been a chance ..just a single chance that the 1st guy to say we came from evolution..may never have occured...but because the dude that said..we came from two single people that lived for nearly 1000 years...thats is probably one of the reasons as to why people took it on themselves to research it...cuz it does sound far fetched ...to me it does....

You dont get it...that guy that wrote the bible was not around when the earth had its 1st ever human being...and even if there where others around..they would have been NEW to the earth...how would they have known how to read or write..in order to write all down what goes on and how things happened? Are you going to tell me there was an education system back then?

Blue I am not trying to be sarcastic with you on this..I am being serious.....what that man wrote about God and other things related to the bible...did it to suit himself...lil did he know that billions would actually foolw his words...he wrote it as he THOUGHT where Gods
words

As a young catholic I was taught to think and believe we all came from Adam & Eve...but now and for many years I think differently...I have read a lot and seen a lot of intresting documentaries on evolution

Another thing Blue...I dont understand as to WHY some actually think, that evolution tries to prove God does not exist....it doesnt...not from how I see it ..it doesnt...I still believe in God..I just believe he was the one that made evolution possible...whos to say God didnt make it all possible to create the bacteria from which over a persiod of billions of years we all finally became what we are right now...humans

If you want to believe in your bible..its your right...I cant make you think differently and I dont want you to think differently Blue....thats not my job...you have a right to think and believe in what you want.....just dont get at me or anyone for believing a different source

Amen to that

It is your 'expectation' that he will give you what he promised isn't it?

You keep saying, 'The guy that wrote the Bible.' I'm pretty sure that you know that more than one guy wrote the BOOKS in the Bible. The Bible isn't one book, its a library of books.

I don't know why God just started with Adam and Eve. Thats not my concern. Why are you asking questions that no one has been given the answers to? What? You want me to make them up?

Evolution says nothing of God. Its the scientists who make assumptions about evolution that cause many to question the Bible. That's what I don't agree on. Evolution is a way of claiming that the Bible must be wrong because of all the evidence we have. The Bible warned us of every evil thing and taught us how to overcome it. Thats what I follow. I don't need evolution or even care about it to live a good life. If you see nothing wrong with evolution, that's your choice. You know about Jesus and his offer to you. The offer may very well stand if you are willing. Until then, I can say no more for you.

No. Why expect something from God? He said he'll do it. Its not an expectation, its a trust. Its believing with out having expectations, with knowing that he will do all he says he will do. Ofcourse the Bible says that God makes no error and is very well capable of anything. So whats to expect. He said what he will do, we said what we will do. There is no need for expectations, the proclomations have already been made on both parts.

I keep saying the guy that wrote the bible because I dont know his name or their names..the ones who started it all before it was translated

Why shouldnt I ask questions blue??? I have a right to question the bible...lots do it..so what is your point??

Yes I know ievolution dont bring God into it ...but I DO...I believe God is responcible for evolution..and no one can prove me wrong either..its my view and I have a right to that view

Think of this ( I have said this before) ....If those who wrote the bible from the beginning (before the translation) had of written...God created MAN in his image...he went on to create men and women of many races and split them up all over the world.............if the bible had of stated this...then no one would have challenged it...after all it makes more sense...but you have to remember...as time went on and people became more and more advanced and smarter...after reading what the bible says on Gods creation...to them it didnt add up so they researched it....but again may not have IF it had of made sense in the 1st place

You may not agree with me....I am not saying you have to either so get down of your high horse and talk about this if you like in a graceful manor....and remember BM here isn't telling you what to believe in...I have heard you out loud and clear Blue..at least do the same without the sarcasim added....

you're right, lets not be sarcastic. Sorry. You said that if the Bible said that God created man in his image and then went on to create other races, ect. then there would be no challenge to the Bible.

That's just it though. I does say that. It says it in order. God created man in his image, man and woman created he them. Thats the first point in order. The second says that they multiplied and the offspring bred with fallen angels, which resulted in wicked children. But all these were wiped out in the flood (keep in mind, they didn't spred out across the world yet.) So when God started over with Noah, that eventually led to the table of nations. They call it this, because the languages were confused, so that they would spread out across the world and multiply. Well, science shows that certain physical features such as skin tone is attributed to the enviroment or climate. Take the Aboriginese for example. They are dark skinned and live near the equator. Now I'm not talking about a joe shmoe going to Australia and then saying, "My skin isn't dark." I'm saying these people settled there and changed due to the climate. Notice that races from a colder climate have smaller nostrils, while those in warmer climates have bigger nostrils. This is a fact. So judging off the fact that the confusing of the languages spread the people across the world, we can see how the Bible makes sense of the different races. So the Bible isn't challenging the races issue, its complimenting it.

Thanks for that blue

But I was talking about the very begining..when God 1st created Adam & Eve...at the same time he could have created lots more and made them different races from the very begining...thats all I was saying

And yes if that was written like that...the 1st guy to ever go off and research evolution..may not have been so hasy...cuz when you read it in the order and the Noah's ark stories...to me they dont make sense either.....Oh dont get me wrong Blue...I do indeed believe there was a flood and I posted you pics that show REAL evidence of the ark...but I think there is more to that bible story than meets the eye...that is all I am saying....you and I look at it differently but hey thats whats majes this intresting...if we both fully agreed then it would be boring and you wouldnt be sitting there now posting LOL... in fact if everyone here agreed..this board would practically come to a stand still LOL

So its good to read what others have to say..without sarcasim because I dont like sarcasim to be honest..I know I use it but its not the real me...it dont suit me either....nor does it suit you lol

but TY for the responce

could you post those pics again? I think if God made a buncha races in the beginning, then we still wouldn't be able to tell. The Bible recalls only one family escaping the flood. If all the races were created before hand, they still would have been destroyed, which brings us back to the table of nations at the tower of Babel. What do you think?

God bless

I understand you..but I see it differently...yes I believe there was a flood and a lot was destroyed but I still think there is more to that story than meets they eye....for all we know, there could (just saying) have been different races in the ark......

Anyhoo....

Ohh sure thing Blue...once I remember what thread I posted them in for you to look at...but I will get some for you...and the real evidence of the ark are just amazing..unbelievable...that ark was HUGE...I'll be back with some pics

Stay tunned

Blue here you go again with this saving business I don’t need to be saved nor do I want to be saved and saved from what? Knoledge? Understanding?

I don’t feel insulted at all a little amazed at some of the naivety some hold but insulted no

I feel you have that the wrong way round it is us taking a dump on the eco system

I am happy you find your solace in your faith I can’t question that nor have attempted to only that you cannot say something as not true when you do not know anything about it

In the school I work there are thousands ,s of text books covering biology /physics/chemistry ,history .In the library here there are hundreds of encyclopaedias covering a whole plethora of facts yet there is only one bible why is that ?
Don’t get me wrong there is a religious education department but it teaches a balanced approached to all religions ,there political and historical contributions and isn’t centred around one set of ideologies and isn’t presented as fact we like to let our children use there heads and make there own conclusions

Do you see museums or encyclopaedias as the work of sinners for sinners because there content are contrary to your beliefs?

BLUE.....

I managed to find some more pics....dont know if you would make them but its there
EXHIBIT A


EXHIBIT B



And I finally found where I posted the others..that once you look at them you will see for yourself....

PROOF OF THE ARK


The Ark of Noah has been found in Southern Turkey. The 515.5 foot Ark was thoroughly examined and found to closely match the 300 Egyptian royal cubits of the account in the book of Genesis. Scientists determined the there was enough space for representatives of ‘All The Kinds’ of Juvenile animals on earth, which otherwise could not have survived the global flood. According to the geologists the flood occurred in largely sequential stages

1) Inundatory
a Erupative
b Ascending
c Zenithic

2 Recessive
Abative
Dispersive


Please look at this for pics taken --> http://www.specialtyinterests.net/the_rema..._noahs_ark.html

Click on the above link...it wont let me copy and paste them so I guess you just have to take a look for yourself but its good stuff

God bless. I kind of drifted away.

its been over 5+ years of researching the remains of this crazy discovery , it didn't surprise me they found it. I expected it to have more publicity(Maybe about a 50% increase in Christianity) since there are people who rely on hard evidence to believe in the faith.
some more pics here
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/noah's_ark.htm

So was that a private PM you are posting in the open forum from BLUEFINGER??? I'd like to know where you managed to take that quote from?? So are you showing me that BLUE is talking about me behind my back...did you post it so I would go jumping on Blues case??? LOL thats just pitiful of you If Blue has anything to say to me...he would say it to my face...I never pegged him to be a coward

And do you wear glasses??? If so I suggest you get them changed cuz due I have already posted those pics....or did you just post ALL of that to waste more time??

No. some more pics are from that website. and he nevered pm me. argh im being so nice

I had posted the same link before you even entered this thread again...and where did you exactly grab that quote from Blue??? if its not a PM...show me or direct me to where you took it from

Wow. That's really cool! So why isn't this as popular as it should be? All the evidence is there. How many other ships were recorded to have been found in the mountains of Ararat? Also, there is history used to describe the event. I consider the finger bones that are much larger than ours today and the fruit, ect. I think perhaps people dwelled in the ark during those times, as a result of harsh weather and climate changes. Could you imagine that perhaps the pre-historic cave men could have been pre-flood humans? It did say that the fingers of the humans were larger than ours, which indicates a 'downward' evolution if you ask me. Does this indicate that our understanding of the caveman is completely wrong? Me wonders...

Also, the book of Job describes what we know today as a mega dinosaur, similar to a Brontosaurus, and was still alive. It was called the Behemoth. Their is also a mideival journal record that described what we know today as a stegasaurus.

Sorry i never read this entire thread. i just skipped to the last page and saw you posted this.
http://www.specialtyinterests.net/the_rema..._noahs_ark.html
so i posted the other site.
Im not a rat so im sorry if i can't direct you to where he said that.
Blue isn't a coward nor did he private message me, he did it publicly so that everyone can see it.

Blue it is popular...its was really popular on the news when they 1st discovered this evidence...it made the headlines...it went on for quite some time....on the discovery channel...its shown a few times over....I myself saw it on that channel....its there if you look for it....however skeptics will and have said its a hoaxI'd like to see how a skeptic can prove its a hoax ....I am only half skeptic > say it NO HOAX!!! I am not that arrogant when it comes to real evidence and that my friend is awsome stuff

Hope you read more on that evidence..515 ft tall is huge...took some time to build that ark thats for sure

Post no 450 http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...6&#entry1203716

I will NOT insult you...yea I did laugh at the idea you posted but thats not an insult..regardless to what Blue has said about me...I have nothing to hide...its not as if I am going to meet any of you face to face..so why should I cover anyhting up?? If I laugh at an idea..that dont mean I am insulting...if I where to REALL insult you or anyone for that matter...I would do so and you would know it LOLI dont have a reason to insult you or anyone ....and Blue says I am Zealous!!!!LOL BM here is VERY VERY enthusiastic...very much so...just enough to want to go looking for answers elsewhere....just because BM here worships God...but wont follow a faith or the bible...that dont mean I am not enthusiastic...if I wasnt enthusiastic. I wouldnt bother looking for answers I would just take the bibles word for it...but I DONT..I look on.... Not saying those who turn to the bible for all answers are not enthusiastic....some just look down on people like me who do not act as they do and think how they think

PS If I have ever insulted Blue..he would soon insult right back...he dont back down...neither do I...but I havent went out of my way to insult him..I have quized him and I have gotten at him for lil things but never threw any REAL insults

yup, like 120 years. I wonder how smart the people of Noah's day really was. Perhaps they were genius's and that all changed after the flood. Perhaps the new radiation that we were exposed to kinda fried our brains.

*pulls the grass out of his hair and spits the dirt out of his mouth* I'm fine.

Back in those days Blue...the men where great carpetners even Jesus himself was a great carpetner...they wernt as smart as we are today (only because we are more advanced with propper education ect) .......but they where great with their hands and could build anything The ark is just ONE prime example...I am sure science has discovered more...and these items are in museums ....Funny you dont hear skeptics talking about the real evidence found do you?? Some would have the neck to try and say the evidence is a hoax yup they know it all............NOT!!!


that made me laugh Blue...so you DO have humour after all hee hee

good point. You are right about the evidence though. How can the skeptics try this and still have the audacity to ignore the evidence and call it a hoax. They would probably go as far as to say that someone built it so that the Jewish people would gain reknown around the world, as a big trick. They'll say anything, because......survey says: PING!!!! THEY DON'T WANT TO FOLLOW GOD. Their is always a submission of life when concerning a God. We have to get to know them some how. God is knocking, and Noah's ark is they cover to the eye hole. Now, if they just lift it up, they'll be able to see who's knocking.

this is crazy stuff

The Ark has NOT been found. Even the Christian apologetics website "Answers in Genesis" has dismissed this claim.

Special report: Amazing ‘Ark’ exposé
Spectacular claims, a misleading video, people misquoted and misrepresented … it's no wonder many have asked the question … could this be Noah’s ark?

by Andrew Snelling

No matter where you live, if you haven’t already heard about it, the promoters and the media have been making sure you will. What then is the massive boat-shaped formation which rests at 6,300 feet above sea level in Eastern Turkey, about 12–15 miles (15–24 kilometres) from the summit of Greater Mount Ararat?

The Main Claims at a Glance

True/False?

* Radar shows man-made (boat) structure..........FALSE
* There is a regular metallic pattern............FALSE
* Lab tests show petrified laminated wood........FALSE
* Turkish scientists found metal rods............FALSE
* Metal artefacts have been proved by lab........FALSE
* There are ‘ship’s ribs’ showing................FALSE
* There is lots of petrified wood................FALSE
* Turkish Commission says ‘it’s a boat...........FALSE

[Ed. note: see also:

* Refutation of Mary Wyatt’s ‘rebuttal’ of this article
* Has the Ark of the Covenant been found?
* Who really sunk the ‘Noah’s Ark’ site?]

AIG
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v14/i4/report.asp

AIG: What arguments are doubtful, hence inadvisable to use?
http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/...nt_use.asp#apes

AIG: Arguments we think creationists should NOT use
http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/...nt_use.asp#apes

Sean

there were many sites within mt ararat that claimed to be noah's ark. thats a big read, i read it later.

What are you shaking your head at BF?! The fact that one of the most popular Christian apologetics sites has, for once, been honest? Is the HS telling you something else about N'sA? Like to share what IT'S been saying to you? Do you receive these messages audibly or through divine revelation? Also, you were able to read all of the above (according to the time-stamp of your post: 3:03 & my post occurred at 3:08) in less than five minutes?! NOT! Try actually reading something before you dismiss it!

Talk Origins:

Sun Goes Down in Flames: The Jammal Ark Hoax by James Lippard

In 1993, American broadcasting giant CBS aired "The Incredible Discovery of Noah's Ark," a "documentary" by Sun International Pictures that purported to show that Noah's Ark had been discovered in the country of Turkey. But it was later revealed that the producers had been relying heavily on hoaxed evidence that was provided by a man named George Jammal. This article, which first appeared in Skeptic Magazine, presents an in-depth report and analysis of the events surrounding the show.

The Incredible Mysteries of Sun Pictures by David Bloomberg

The 1993 CBS airing of "The Incredible Discovery of Noah's Ark" illustrates the danger of blurring the line between news and entertainment programming.

SOURCE
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/ark-hoax.html

Sean

Okay, how about these that debunk Wyatt?

A Christian Site

Another

Explanation of what was really found

Sean: It doesn't take a weatherman to tell which way Bluefinger's wind blows... "If it's in the Bible, it must be factual truth."

******************************

to you both!

Sean

Personally, i DON'T think that it is the Ark

it could be hoaxed so it gives the believers some evidence to continue on their beliefs etc

also, if the Ark was real how would you be able to put ALL the animals in there that just sounds too far-fetched to me

WTF is wrong with you skeptics???

Why is it that when there is evidence of such a thing like in this case the ARK...why must you all act as if you know for sure it just has to be *gasp* a hoax??


There was a flood, and there was an ark..noahs ark...for the love of posts...why make a big deal...geee I am well known to be skeptic about bible stories yes guilty as charged...but for crying out loud I have what's called an open mind and know how to search for answers....I did just that and presented just a few...and learnt there was a freaking ark and a flood...I told Blue I do believe in it..but there was more to the noahs ark story than meets the eye....you skeptics are so freaking predictable and when I say YOU SKEPTICS I am talking about those of you that make stupid claims saying the evidence that I presented and looked up formyself a while back...that its all wrong...catch a grip...just because BM here believes this is true dont make me religious...I know evidence when I see it

I don't know WTF is wrong with the other skeptics, but if I really went into everything that is wrong with me I'd take up a few pages.

I never attacked your belief in the flood. All, I did was post webpages about Ron Wyatt's claim. His claim has been proven to be false. If you want to view that as just a stupid claim I'm making, that's fine. But, from what I've read about Ron Wyatt he was a scam artist. Here are some other things he's claimed to have found:

Sulfur balls from the burning of Sodom and Gomorrah

The point of the Israelites' crossing of the Red Sea in Exodus

Debris from the pursuing army of Pharoah at the bottom of the sea

The site of the Biblical Mt. Sinai

A chamber at the end of a maze of tunnels under Jerusalem containing artifacts from Solomon's temple

The Ark of the Covenant

The stones on which God carved the Ten Commandments

The exact site of the crucifixion of Jesus

An earthquake crack under the crucifixion site made at the time of the death of Jesus

Blood of Jesus, which dripped down this crack onto the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant, located in a chamber directly beneath the cross

Source


If me doubting claims, and looking into them to find the truth makes me predictable then so be it. As a skeptic, I look at all sides of a story.

I would never presume to think that because you believed in the flood that you were religious. That's not how I work.

Glad you dont LOL

But RM...girl I have read up a lot on this....I dont believe the bibles version of noahs ark..as I said there is more to it....but there was an ark found...I have watched a few documentaries on it too....it opened my eyes...the Documentaries I watched where presented by archaeologists ect...it was good to watch and learn more about the flood...nothing religious about it.... D'OH I mean LOL

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/3451/dnews2005dnp24wf.jpg

Ahh its funny how when you find something you want to be true you use science and scientific methodology to validate it and accept its results as fact But the same methodology and principle applied to that ,that you do not want to be true is false ,inaccurate and open to interpretation. A supposedly fossil of a boat is ok but countless fossils that are contrary to your faith are not.
IV seen this numerous times indeed when it was first discovered its initial appearance did have that of a boat however I would expect closer inspection and time will show otherwise
What is also funny is how the Turkish government is not allowing any scientific examination of the site and is opening it up to tourism hmmm


sources http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1593672/posts

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=50307

further reading by one turkish expert

http://www.noahsarksearch.com/durupinar.htm

So untill its exsamined by the scientific comunity im afraid it is nothng more than a rock out crop again as with much of faith the truth is in the eye of the beholder


With the same respect I put forth that the planet of the apes has been found with this evidence

http://www.metaresearch.org/solar######sys...faceonmars.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_on_Mars

edit fixed links

Not in my case it's not....I didn't care for it to be true..I am on record for claiming all bible stories are false, and I will still say that...but I believe there was a noah's ark and there was a flood, (the story the bible tells us on the whole thing dont seem right) and I was the 1st to post up the evidence....but unlike lufia...I knew to shrink my pics down so they wouldn't stretch the page...cuz we all don't have 28" widescreen monitors LOL Aint that RIGHT LUFIA????


Shrink your pics boy lol

i agree on that BM lol

BM, first, why so angry? Second I wasn't dissing you. Third, I used to believe in the ark/flood story myself. I still have the book "The Ark of Noah" that addresses the anomaly in the Turkish mountains, the pictures you posted above. Fourth, I found out that the claims made were not true. Even the Christian apologetics website "Answers in Genesis" has dismissed this claim. Again, the following is from AIG, a fundamentalist Christian site.

Special report: Amazing ‘Ark’ exposé
Spectacular claims, a misleading video, people misquoted and misrepresented … it's no wonder many have asked the question … could this be Noah’s ark?

by Andrew Snelling (Creationist)

No matter where you live, if you haven’t already heard about it, the promoters and the media have been making sure you will. What then is the massive boat-shaped formation which rests at 6,300 feet above sea level in Eastern Turkey, about 12–15 miles (15–24 kilometres) from the summit of Greater Mount Ararat?

The Main Claims at a Glance

True/False?

* Radar shows man-made (boat) structure..........FALSE
* There is a regular metallic pattern............FALSE
* Lab tests show petrified laminated wood........FALSE
* Turkish scientists found metal rods............FALSE
* Metal artefacts have been proved by lab........FALSE
* There are ‘ship’s ribs’ showing................FALSE
* There is lots of petrified wood................FALSE
* Turkish Commission says ‘it’s a boat...........FALSE

AIG
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v14/i4/report.asp

AIG: What arguments are doubtful, hence inadvisable to use?
http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/...nt_use.asp#apes

AIG: Arguments we think creationists should NOT use
http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/...nt_use.asp#apes

The following articles are from one of the most respected academic sites on the web, Talk Origins.

Sun Goes Down in Flames: The Jammal Ark Hoax by James Lippard

In 1993, American broadcasting giant CBS aired "The Incredible Discovery of Noah's Ark," a "documentary" by Sun International Pictures that purported to show that Noah's Ark had been discovered in the country of Turkey. But it was later revealed that the producers had been relying heavily on hoaxed evidence that was provided by a man named George Jammal. This article, which first appeared in Skeptic Magazine, presents an in-depth report and analysis of the events surrounding the show.

The Incredible Mysteries of Sun Pictures by David Bloomberg

The 1993 CBS airing of "The Incredible Discovery of Noah's Ark" illustrates the danger of blurring the line between news and entertainment programming.

SOURCE
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/ark-hoax.html

Problems with a Global Flood Second Edition by Mark Isaak

Contents

1. Building the Ark
2. Gathering the Animals
3. Fitting the Animals Aboard
4. Caring for the Animals
5. The Flood Itself
6. Implications of a Flood
7. Producing the Geological Record
8. Species Survival and Post-Flood Ecology
9. Species Distribution and Diversity
10. Historical Aspects
11. Logical, Philosophical, and Theological Points
Acknowledgements

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html

Flood Geology
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-flood.html

Sean

Well, I think its up to each of us to believe what we want. For almost everything thing, there is something against it. You can choose to believe in the evidence or not to believe. Some people just don't want to believe regardless. And thats their human right.

I look at it from historical point of view. Going back 2000 somewhat years ago, Josephus recorded that people still visited the ark. Seeing the anchor weights with crosses indicated that pilgrims (most likely in the dark ages) came to visit the sight. We know of a flood in that area. Also the term MOUNTAINS of Ararat seem to indicate that the ark didn't even have to land on a mountain, but in the mountain valley. I find it hard to call this a hoax. We've seen up close pictures of the formation (which is symmetrical, not a natural development), remains, elements unusual for its placement, and tools used for the ark.

Now, you can choose to believe that the guy made it all up. Or you can choose to gather the evidence, look at the historical testimonies, and determine that is wasn't all made up. Almost every culture or belief has a story similar to the Bible's version of Noah, even the Hawaiins have their own version. This isn't just coicedence and is too broad for a conspiracy. I think many would rather not believe it, because it forces them to rethink what they've learned about science, nature, and history.

It could be that people pass on the whole theory on evolution because they believe in creationism. I personally believe in the theory of evolution.

Blue: did you even look at any of the sites that debunk Ron Wyatt? Believe whatever you want about the flood, just don't take this guys word for it that he found the ark. If you really want to gather evidence, you have to check out ALL of it. This guy's claim has been proven to be false, not just by secular scientist, but by Christians as well.

Lufia: if your post is still open for editing, can you PLEASE resize your picture? The panoramic view is annoying.

Before I start....Irish ...PA...please see if you guys can shrink down Lufia pics on the ark...its makes it harder to read other peoples posts...thanks

Right Sean

I was angry...because I spent quite some time researching this myself Sean...not because someone told me to, but because I happen to take an intrest in it.....NO respect was shown after the trouble I had went to to post the evidence that I say is REAL...

What I find so ironic about this is ...A skeptic will talk about evolution..the religious person will be against it caliming science is wrong....The skeptic seem to be ALL for the love of science.....but wait...It was the work of science that made this discovery....and yet skeptics are now saying science is wrong...could it be because it proves something from the bible??...the term - To bite off your own nose, just to spite your face springs to mind!!! and yes I am aware that religious people will root for science if it proves a story from their bible...I am aware of that too...as for me I go with the flow!!!


Just because I am at most times the skeptic...doesnt mean I have to dismiss other evidence....I and not one of these skeptics that if I see evidence of ie the ark...I will go out of my way to look up sources to try and prove it HAS to be a hoax....that only proves how narrowminded I am if I did that

A lot of religious folks have accused me of bashing christians, bashing God and religion....but they are wrong...what these people dont realize is I will research it, question it before I make up my mind whats real and whats not....what makes sense...what doesnt....do you see where I am coming from??

I always will look at BOTH sides of the coin..ALWAYS sean....you should at least respect that

The ark was real..and there was a flood....but sean not only have I read up on it..I have seen documentaies on it...the documentaries where not presented by religious people either...and they where intresting to watch...I love the discovery channel and the history channel...I pick up all sorts of info on those channels....I like it

I have never seen a documentary saying the ark was a hoax.. yes it is so easy to look for the negative side on line...it's so easy to look up to where some have claimed it to be a hoax...very easy....you can do that with anything

Whats the bet in many many many years(hundreds even) from now...some skeptics will try and claim that the 9/11 did not happen?? Just in the same way some have tried to say man did not walk on the moon LOL ...A skeptic will always try and prove you wrong ....al ot of sketics go out of their way to crush someones beliefs...take a look at the evidence thread...hard core arrogant skeptic right there...but other skeptics can look and understand as to where others are coming from...that dont mean they have to agree


You know what people its all about ego...pure ego...no matter what evidence is presented...it will still be classed as a hoax..fake!!...The same can be said for the religious people...if they see or read something that just might make sense...their ego will not allow them to say so....PRIDE!!!!!

As for the middle of the road folks like...ME LOL we move around and take more time to try and understand and will not be too afraid to take a stand and say...you know what you could be right

Sean...you are well and truly entitled to your views...I respect it..so please respect mine....

sorry

um, the problem with that theory bm is that yes there were floods but not a massive one that went all over the world and people have proved it to be a fake funny how a century old boat could prove the claims of the bible why can't you find any more evidence?! makes you think

Kahrie, I am a skeptic when it comes to bible stories and I aint too shy on saying so. But I have researched it, more so than you think, I have also watched a few documentaries on it too...scientist have proved this, and yes you are going to read a few reports on people claiming it to be a hoax, but geee no matter what strange is found or dug up, there wiill always be someone some place and some how will say it's fake. If you want MORE evidence girly, don't be lazy, google them yourself.

I took the time to research it, I am fully intitled to my opinions and beliefs on it, if you or anyone else can't accept it fine, but before you mock, why don't you research it yourself, thats IF you are intrested Or are you only intrested in biting your nose off to spite your face?

I have seen the same documentaries on the DC, and the conclusion was that the Noah story was based on much earlier Sumerian/Akkadian/Babylonian myth[s] known as the Epic of Gilgamesh, Enuma Elish et al. And the flood was not global--for the ancients it certainty seemed that way--but a massive local flood. These sttories were so widely known and popular, that they simply got woven in to the fabric of Hebrew history.

The title of the documentary is "Noah's Ark: The True Story". I have seen it several times.

From Christian Answers ...

Has Anyone Discovered Noah's Ark?
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a001.html

From another Christian organization ...

Has Noah's Ark Been Found? Part II By Dr. David Merling
http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/HasNoahsArkBeenFound2.html

ENUMA ELISH: THE EPIC OF CREATION
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/enuma.htm

Exlporing Ancient World Cultures (Evansville University): EPIC OF GILGAMESH
http://eawc.evansville.edu/nepage.htm

And even the Vatican has stated that Genesis is not to be taken literally, that it is not teaching science. That said, believe as you wish.

Sean

you mean the fact that there are sea shells on the top of Mount Everest? As well as on top of many ranges in America.

That's because those mountains used to be ocean floors!

Claim CC364:

Seashells and other marine fossils have been found on mountaintops, even very tall ones. These indicate that the sea once covered the mountains, which is evidence for a global flood.

Source:

Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here? Brooklyn, NY, p. 203.

Response:

1. Shells on mountains are easily explained by uplift of the land. Although this process is slow, it is observed happening today, and it accounts not only for the seashells on mountains but also for the other geological and paleontological features of those mountains. The sea once did cover the areas where the fossils are found, but they were not mountains at the time; they were shallow seas.

2. A flood cannot explain the presence of marine shells on mountains for the following reasons:

* Floods erode mountains and deposit their sediments in valleys.

* In many cases, the fossils are in the same positions as they grow in life, not scattered as if they were redeposited by a flood. This was noted as early as the sixteenth century by Leonardo da Vinci (Gould 1998).

* Other evidence, such as fossilized tracks and burrows of marine organisms, show that the region was once under the sea. Seashells are not found in sediments that were not formerly covered by sea.

References:

1. Gould, Stephen J., 1998. The upwardly mobile fossils of Leonardo's living earth. In: Leonardo's Mountain of Clams and the Diet of Worms, New York: Three Rivers Press, pp. 17-44.

Sean