Wanna bet??

good post and i respect your opinions but i happen to think that as people we should all have some common knowledge of how life is what it is, just as i think we should ave some common knowledge of physiscs...
many of the reasons and opinions against evolution stems from a lack of fundimental understanding, and the great pr campeighn of creationism lately (I.D.)
when i first learned about cells and such i though omg what a bore, but latter when things started to really make sense and click, you get so much more of an understanding about everything around us as a part of this living world.
i think it is in every persons best interest to know and understand this theory, in europe and asia the general public has such an understanding that something like I.D. could never have been taken seriously on the level that it was in the US...
The US was once a scientific powerhouse and today we view scientists as conartist or geeks...
it all come down to public opinion and the people we elect, when we have people running our country without even basic knowledge of biology, then how much knowledge can we say they have say in economics?
sure most of them are lawyers and can talk rhetoric really well... but we as people need to start placing our priorities in other... more inttleigent canadates...
i'm not here to make political statments just trying to show my opinion that it is important that people know these things...
so that when something comes along that is completely absurde and is passed off to the public as science... when by definition it can in no way be so then we have a major education problem..
with advertising swaying our public opinion people need more of an education to determin who's giving bs and who's not, and it's not just biology it's every subject but especially science...
a good example...
the other day there was a show talking about this new remedy that cures all digestive system problems...
they stated the cause of those problems as the bacteria that is infesting our intestines...
now i'm sure that most people here would have to know that with out those bacteria we can't live...
and they used all these scientific facts about the numbers and how they live and such, and these people are using this information to take advantage of people who are ignorant of the fact that these things are normal and acctually make us healthy just so they could see a product, and this was no late night infomercial, but just before prime time on a very popular network...
we owe it to our selves to educate and understand each other...
that is why i think that every person has to have a woking knowledge of the world around them, and sure it might be dry and boring but in the world we live in it is essential to everyday life, we no longer can depend on companies to play fair and not abuse people, this isn't that world, it's the real world and we owe it to the betterment of our selves to make sure that our governments make sure that each and every citizen has enough of an education to beable to function in the real world... and clearly where i'm at that is not andhas not happened in a long time unless the person them selves make the effort to do it,....

k then lets think about this. if there is no proof that we evolved from primates and that the adam and eve story was actually proved fake. then where did we come from?

religion is strict against evolution. its strange. evolution is science... i'm not going to continue cause u will kill me...

Humans are so closely related to apes, in fact, that humans would be classified as a type of ape if it weren't for the fact that we're the ones doing the classifying.

Again, your average voter isn't asked to render an interpretation of quantum mechanics. Why evolutionary theory? It's a part of the field of biology. Who even cares what a non-biologist's "opinion" on it is? Do we ask a truck driver where cancer comes from, or a business man what happens to stars when they get old? No. So why does anyone care what anyone thinks about this little branch of science called evolution?

What place does uninformed "opinion" have in science anyway? Can we even call it an opinion if it's backed by no information? How can anyone be expected to have an "opinion" about a field he doesn't know?

Just a bunch of questions that bug me.

Good point. I've seen far too many people who refuse to learn about a subject because it conflicts with their beliefs. Of course, as a career nerd, I'm surprised why anyone would refuse to learn something. Unless it's the neighbor's sex life.

But seriously, people should take the time to learn about things so they can have an opinion that's backed. In debate, knowing all sides of the issue is an enormous advantage. Which is what evo vs ID is: debate.

Meh, evolution is bunk, that's all there is too it, there's no need to believe in it just as there is no need to be an atheist, see these people "think" they are using their brain to 100% of their fullest extent, but is this really putting your mind to the test and configuring the state of change by saying we came from a similiar division close to that of apes?

We are not monkies, we are not like monkies, the only things about monkies and us is our physical shape, that's it! Does anyone here realize that having a 2% similarity in genetic makeup and DNA strand is allot more in difference than what you might think it is? Pigs have the skin and the internal organs that humans do, and dolphins are the closest in developed mentality and the ability to comprehend simply by using their mind.

Here's what doesn't add up: doesn't the evolutionary progress lead to advancement? Or can it lead to a regression in attributed changes? You cannot have monkies, then pigs, then dolphins, then humans, it doesn't make sense and it doesn't add up, there isn't anything more to this, evolution and atheism are bunk, I'm sorry but that's all there is to it, bunk if you ask me, and no this isn't because of my personal opinions or viewed perceptions, it's because of one thing in mind: how does anything in the universe just happen? We mine as well "retard" ourselves down to the next lowest level and say that the sky is falling on top of our heads.

How funny though, that anything "just happens" I mean, how simple does it have to be people? It's an integrated thread of fabrications, EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON OR BECAUSE OF SOMETHING! It's a chain reaction for crying out loud people! Smell the coffee! I don't care if you agree with me or not, why not try thinking instead of pointing towards me calling me the ignorant one? I could sit through these theories all day and I would still hold the same opinions because it's mindless junk, if someone pulls a gun trigger and ends up shooting and killing someone, are you going to be there and say "it just happens dude, it's not like he influenced the pull of that trigger, it just happened out of nowhere."

Common sense has sure lost it's way with the human race, evolution is just another word for the complete opposite of what it means, it slows down any process of thinking and turns into theories that sound logical but are really just a waste of hot air, please try and think about it for a while, remember I've been in these similiar mood patterns and thought processes, the same "boat" if you will, so yes I know exactly what your saying, once you get to thinking about it, you will see it's nothing more than heresay nonsense.

As a side note, yes I'll agree there is a "evolutionary" development in the universe, but as someone said earlier, (can't remember who stated it) that it's micro development, not macro-organisms, and that, my dearies, is the only type of evolution we can base any sort of fact on.

Didn't somebody already point out that it "just happening" is bunk?

I wouldn't know I didn't take the time to read through the entire thread, heh, I guess you could say I'm a lazy bastard?

Neither question is intelligible in terms of evolutionary theory, and there certainly isn't anything in evolutionary theory that would lead to the conclusion that "you cannot have" all these animals.

If you would like to condemn a particular theory of evolution, you need to know that theory. What's your background in the field? Have you read any books on it by professional biologists? Where does your information about evolution come from?

Good post and a good question

Its creationasim intelligent design living things evolve to the state of their environment something always has a beggining and an end.Humans are not like any animal though our brains are larger then most creatures which makes us intelligent and in my theory our bodies are made to last forever so the next step for humans is to be Immortal

did you happen to read any other posts?
fist off evolution isn't a cognative being, second there is no such thing as advance ment and regression...
only what works best in that enviornment...
you come here saying both evolution and atheism are bunk and yet show a very low level of understanding either...
i think it would be in your best interest to acctually read up alittle or atleat read some of the previous posts before showing us that you don't really understand what you're talking about....

why does every one think that there are reasons?
chain reactions and natural cycles sure they exists but on a lage scale... i dunno say human life, why do you think anyone but you gives it meaning and reason?
because you can't deal witht he fact that maybe there isn't someone out there controlling the wheel?

hmm so you understand the theories and have been in the same thought patterns?
well i can tell you right now if you were to tell this to any biologist you would be laughed right out of the building...
again i would suggest you read and understand alittle more about evolution and someone else posted somethings about "micro and Macro" evolution quite a few pages back...
but just for you i will basicly make this as clear as possible...
micro and macro don't exists they are the same thing follow the same rules small changes lead to big changes in the right enviornment

That has to be the most frightening, myopic-minded, nonsensical rubbish I have ever heard! Thank you for reminding me why I fled religion in the first place!



If you believe this, than you haven't studied even basic Science!

Take a look a the fossil record, please. And take a look at your own body and how it compares to primates et al. If you don't see a relationship, you're blind.

Why do you think humans have a tail bone (coccyx)? Ever heard of a vestigial tail? Not uncommon amongst newwborns.

Why must your wisdom teeth be removed? Because your jaw at one time was much larger, used for chewing plants etc.

The appendix was at you one time a vital organ? Not now! Why? You're body is evolving and no longer requires it.

Canine teeth? Most species have them.

How about your third eyelid? Piece of tissue located on the inside corner of your eye? This is also a vestigial remnant which most animals have.

I could go on and on.

Please take a science class before you go around dismissing things. Here are just a few basics ...

Frequently Asked Questions About Evolution
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/faq/

The Basics

1. What is evolution?

2. Isn't evolution just a theory that remains unproven?

3. Are all species related?

4. What is a species?

5. What do genes have to do with evolution?

6. What role does sex play in evolution?

7. Is evolution a random process?

8. Are evolution and "survival of the fittest" the same thing?

9. How does natural selection work?

10. How do organisms evolve?

11. Does evolution prove there is no God?


Smithsonian Human Origins Program
http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/

Fossil Hominids: The Evidence for Human Evolution
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/

National Center for Science Education
http://www.ncseweb.org/article.asp?category=12

Living Science
http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/050922_ID_main.html

Top 10 Missing Links
http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/to...ssinglinks.html

Evolution Resources: Brown University
http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/index.html

Sean

WOW! Um, so anyway, Boltwave, I was once on your side of the fence (although not quite so fanatical about it), and now I'm on the godless heathen side of the fence. I gotta tell ya, I'm likin' this side of the fence. The really cool part is, that on this side you get to think for yourself. There's no god or church telling you what you should think.

(Ren) OK Stimpy, it's time for your evolving lessons
(Stimpy) Oh rapture!

Everybody sing along:

They swing by their tails
With the greatest of ease
Those hairy lower life forms
We call monkeys
They have so much fun
When they play in the trees
Oh how I love to be one of these
Sooooooo

I'm gonna be a monkey
A monkey monkey monkey
Monkey monkey monkey
Monkey monkey monkey
I'm gonna be a monkey
Monkey monkey monkey
Would you like to be one too?

When one monkey's itchy
Another is nice
He'll pick from his back
All the vermine and lice
And if he gets hungry
He'll shake on some spice
And eat the bug without thinking twice
Mmmmmm delicious
Sooooooo

I'm gonna be a monkey
A monkey monkey monkey
Monkey monkey monkey
Monkey monkey monkey
I'm gonna be a monkey
Monkey monkey monkey
Would you like to be one too?


I think somebody already has.

Quite possibly, the longest, most insipid sentence I've ever seen in my life.

Okay then, here's one thing evolution hasn't been able to answer: where was the beginning that was the beginning of the universe?

This is mainly why evolution is false! Doesn't anyone understand the process of how these things work? Everything on this earth as you see it, came from a supernatural deity, isn't that obvious!????

I don't need the church to think for me, I think for myself, but I don't depend on myself for everything, if that were possible I could be invincible and capable of doing anything, but I'm just human, and that's all there is too it.

We co-exist with animals, we are not animals ourselves, and for this reason I'm talking about quite a few things that we have animal's don't, one we have a concious, two we have moral values, three we have superior intelligence to anything else on this entire planet, funny how animals, who are just like us, can't build airplanes and learn how to fly, travel to space and on dry land or straight out to sea, they can't do mathematics and solve equations, and yet you say just because we have a physical build like animals that we are exactly like them? We are living organisms, so what? That doesn't prove a thing!

Bottom line is no matter how "logical" it comes out in the end it never adds up to a conclusion, just because someone has a doctrine or a major in biology doesn't mean they have all of the answers and therefore evolution makes sense.

What none of you seem to realize is that "I have the church to think for me" while you have the scientists making every logical theory make sense for you! Boy, that makes allot of sense!

And what is atheism? Atheism is the based belief there is no god or supernatural deity, atheism isn't complex, as much as religious people put their faith in "churches and temples" atheists and biologists put faith in their textbooks! Huff! How sad!

Now I could go on and tell you about my opinions and spiritual beings and whatnot but you would only think the same thing as I think of anything you can provide: it's just a written docuement, and it can't be proven.

You are absolutly right bolt......

OH WAIT
You are talking about two totally diferent theories here!

The theory of Evolution

The Big Bang theory

Oh, is it really? I suppose you also think religion is bunk too then? Afterall, compared to evolution, it has far less evidence...



Just as there is no need to believe in religion, or to be a theist.



"these people"?



Point being? What about a 98% similarity?



You're right it doesnt add up. Want to know why? Because you're trying to add apples, oranges and motor oil.



I can say the same about religion...



No one's saying it "just happens", and just because you dont want to believe that something doesnt "just happen" doesnt negate the possibility of it. As for dumbing ourselves down, that seems to be a perfect description of what you're doing.



Funny... first you tell us to stop calling you ignorant, then you basically call us ignorant...



Oh, here you are doing it again...



Lol, evolution is heresay nonsense?

Evolution has nothing, nothing to do with with the creation of the universe or how life got started. We don't know that. We also don't know why creationists think this is "evidence" against evolution. Evolution is the study of how life changed through time. i.e. how it "evolved."

Life could have started because God took a dump on the young earth, aliens tossed some trash out of their spaceship, or Galactus spit out a chunk of another planet. That's the mystery we don't know. With evolution, we can look at the evidence, the fossil record, the biological systems on earth today compared with the past, etc and we can come to a conclusion about how life evolved.



When did believing in evolution mean a delusion towards invincibility?



Except the part where we fit every description of an animal. Did you know humans are mammals? Mammals = animal. Not plant.



It proves we're animals rather than mineral or vegetable.



Who said we had all the answers? We don't. But we have answers based on evidence, logic, and reason. And evidence. That hasn't been disproven like those Paluxy footprints.



Except there's stuff like evidence. I don't believe just anything a scientist says unless I look at the evidence myself. That's why there's evidence. Eviiideeeeence.

Good lord, you didn't believe them about the Paluxy footprints, did you?



Textbooks have evidence backing them up. Evidence. How many more times do I have to say it? I'm starting to sound like a CSI character.

You do realize not just atheists believe the evidence for evolution, don't you? I mean, there's like Christians and Jews and Pagans and Muslims and Agnostics and Hindus and Bhuddists and Zoroastrians and Mormons who believe the evidence. I can name a Mormon paleontologist for you.



Eviiiiideeeeeeence...

Boltwave, do you know anything about evolutionary theory?

Does not look like it

Ah, but one thing is in common with these two, no? These things just "happened" didn't they? No supernatural omnipresent creator was involved, just nature and gas! So to me, the only difference is that evolution supposedly explains the process of developement, and the big bang theory, just say it happened! It doesn't matter how it's done, your still judging that there is no creator to put those things into place, therefore, it just happens, is there something I'm missing?



You have enough evidence, you just don't know where to look and how.



Then what is it then??? Unless you think that a deity did it, you just think it happens, it doesn't matter how it's put together, your still denying it, therefore (as pointed at zandore) according to what has been said, it does "just happen."

Honestly, the human race is running away and using every excuse they can to avoid there deepest fears, there too afraid to confront something they don't have the balls to admit too, and then to make themselves feel more comfortable, they say "it's not there, just thin air really."

"What must be developed in the individual first of all is personal responsibility before his own conscience, and here you cannot do without religion because if there is no God everything is permissible. In a game nobody is responsible before anybody and it is the biggest person who survives"-Fr. Sergiy of http://www.interfax-religion.com

So what does man do? He was given earth, he was given everything that it offered, and what does he plan on doing with it all? He follows his own ways and plays by his own rules, but as we can see, being that the unknown psychological fear and the known fears of the world have increased our problems of rejection and dismissal, as well as denial, and only offers into the human race what the mind wants to hear, they are either afraid of the non-existence, and have not found the areas where a deity exists yet in their life, or they run away from it, and laugh at the idea of it, it all comes down to personal and inner-fear, if you really think about it, why not put this question into your mind: what's it like for you when you die? You know your time isn't going to be forever, and eventually you will fall over and croak, you may not think of it right at this moment, but imagine if the clock was ticking for you, and you had only a few hours left, which before your very eyes would turn into minutes, and then stop at the final last seconds of your last breathe.

There's a reason death is here, and it isn't by coincedence.



Oh well now I know you've said this before, I wonder though, is it really me calling you and others ignorant, or is it that I may be applying that science (yes same goes for religion) doesn't tell the truth all the time and doesn't provide every answer there is in the world?



Indeed it is, it started off with ONE person constructing the entire theory by their own study, and then after 30 years or so, it is considered factual by many, sure you could say the same thing about the bible, or any religious text, but it didn't start off with just one single person believe it or not, and yes, there is secular evidence outside of what the bible says.

How mant times do we have to tell you: it didn't just happen! No one is saying it just happened! Have you even read any other posts or are you just posting for the hell of it?



Blah blah blah. Not like I didn't point out the "just happens" thing a bazillion times.



You're right. Science is just air. That computer you're typing on is just air. The medicine you take is just air. Your toothbrush is just air.



NO ONE ever claimed that science knew ALL the answers and I'm getting really sick of pointing this out, only to have you completely ignore the obvious. If you can't even be bothered to crack a book or read the posts in a thread you seem to insist on arguing in. Reference books contain information, but you need brains to use it.



Yes, someone conducted a STUDY. And then over the past 200 years, thousands of scientists studied it more, observed the natural world, and discovered evidence that supports the theory. And when the evidence didn't support the theory, they started over. THAT'S how science works! Religion doesn't revise it's beliefs because that causes doubt in the system. Science is based on doubt. Doubt is the enemy of religion and faith. THAT'S why science is NOT a religion, no matter how much creationists want it to be!

GAH!

I'm against Hydroelectric Engineering. It doesn't exist. There's no evidence that proves a dam could hold back all that water. It's impossible. The only reason that water is held back is because God puts his hand down to keep the water in. Look at the way a dam is shaped, curved like hands curve. That's proof. Now and then, God pulls his hand away from a dam and lets it wipe out towns to prove to us that we aren't in control so we know His Glory. And that whole thing about so-called "hydroelectric power" is a hoax. Dams don't create power, that's absurd. God's hand is so filled with energy that some of it gets into the dam's power systems so the so-called "engineers" have to send the power to people. They don't want us to know that hydroelectric engineering is all false and it's really God's hand holding back the water and creating all that energy.

The fact that I know nothing about hydroelectric engineering has nothing to do with this.

My computer is fairly slow, so I don't have all the time in the world to look through everyone's posts, of course I already acknowledge that religious people even support evolution, it doesn't really contradict anything about a creator, but it also depends on what aspect and context you use it in, I am talking in areas of where atheism and science has become the explanation for the beginning of this universe and the whole kitten kaboodle!



????

I wasn't referring to science, I was referring to what (according to the majority of scientists) that God doesn't exist, that he is just "thin air."




That's not completely true, religion has a few "gaps" but that's because religion is much more deeply rooted and has much more of a background than scientific theories, it doesn't mean religion is inaccurate, it could mean that another message was left behind and became mis-interperatted, or that from what we can gain from pockets of our timeline and records of historical events, we can see where things have gotten lost, stolen, and misplaced, or where we can link remains to where things have been completely destroyed, wiping out an entire piece of history! Until we can hyopthensesize, or we could take the records of history we DO have and then we could put the missing pieces of the puzzle together, no?

Another thing is that science can be based on all the evidence it wants too, but it can create major flaws as well, here's an example: fifty years back, scientists and paleontologists were for sure and for certain, that dinosaurs where physically slow and stunted in mobility, we were also sure that they where dumb as a box of rocks, but now, in our present day, we have concluded that the dinosaurs were fast, agile, extradorniarly extremely intelligent, hell, evolution itself could at some point could get completely ripped to pieces by "evidence" you never know what the future holds!

I'm not a Christian and I don't know enough about evolution to argue against it. I do however, find it farfetched. I do know that evolution does happen(adaption). But I won't go as far as saying that's how everything got like it is now. I mean hell, look at how more advanced our consciousness is than animals(I don't care what you say, I see it this way). And scientists still don't understand the brain, so I can't say evolution is responsible.


Religion is somewhat bunk, that's true. But being a naturalist is just as bunk in my opinion. It's harder to believe than the Noah's Ark story! To be a naturalist you have to assume there was no creator and in my opinion, there is no evidence to the contrary of their being a creator.


I'm sure evolutionists would like to convince people that evolution is true, but the way they act, all they do is push people away. They act like fundamentalist Christians if not worse. I can't figure out wich ones annoy me more.

Exactly, but science itself evolves and is willing to revise its theory the next day if the evidence and observations aren't completely bogus. Science is always changing and the first thing we learn as scientists is what we know today could change tomorrow and we have to accept that. Religion can't say the same. Hell, people are still arguing over specific passages in the youngest part of the Bible.

Yes, our idea of dinosaurs have changed because our knowledge has changed. Fifty years from now, we might discover that dinosaurs had jet packs and lived on the moon.

Which would be damned cool.

Sigh, like I've said again and again, the theory of evolution by natural selection (which is what we're really arguing about since evolution is testable and proven) does not rule out a creator. Nothing in it says there can't be a creator. Evolution is how life changed over the course of the planet's existence, not how it magically appeared. We don't know how it magically appeared, and if I have to mention God's dump or Galactus's spit one more time...

I didn't say it does. I always tell Christians who whine about evolution the same thing. Don't get your pantties all twisted.

Hehehe, indeed it would be

Anyone that b*tches about science should not be sitting here posting..plain and simple...cuz without science you wouldnt be able to post...it's a well known fact that science is part of every thing we use ....and everything we rely on...even medicine...so quit b*tchin about science

WOW guys are you reading this...Zero says he doesnt know enough to argue against evolution...

OK who are you and what have you done with the old Zero that used to argue the toss day in day out on any given evolution thread???

Two separate issues. But the theory of the Big Bang stands until disproven. Ever heard of Einstein's theory E=mc2 (energy becomes matter) and M-Theory? Obviously not.

E = mc2 Explained
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/einstein/experts.html

M-Theory: The Mother of all SuperStrings
An introduction to M-Theory
By Michio Kaku
http://www.mkaku.org/articles/mtheory_superstrings.shtml



You don't.



Only to you.



Really? Do we kill our food so that we might eat? Do we not hunt for food? Do we not choose a mate and rear our young? Do we not form bonds with one another. Do we not defend ourselves--our children and family members--when necessary? Do we not kill? Do not males vie for the affections of a female, engage in competition for a mate?



Really? Have you taken a close look at this world? It seems the only things humans have perfected is how to kill one another, destroy our environment, build walls of hate and division ...



Neither could we at one time. That said, scientists studying primates observe them using/making simple tools and engaging in complex social activities--just like humans. And give primates another million years without human intervention ... and they would evolve.



It proves that we are related!



I'll take logic and reason over blind faith any day.



And how wonderfully rewarding it is to see the world in a broad context, to see the beauty of nature and appreciate it at a level much deeper than what faith can provide. I no longer look at something and say god did it, nice. I now see way beyond such a trivial thing. I see and understand how things came to be, how they work and why. Far, far more rewarding.

Sean

Well, I do know certain things are silly about evolutionists. Like when they try to explain things that they honestly know they don't quite understand. They act like Christians throwing out explainations to explain away flaws in the bible. Such as "Why are there gay people". They say "Population Control!" and I laugh.


Anyway, I see BM hasn't changed. I think if I stay here for too long I'd become Christian again because of the way the Atheist act here, lol. I stayed Christian untill I left UM for a while.


No one knows how the universe got here, and a scientist's theory is just as good as a 3 year old's guess when it comes to how the universe came to be. I know some things are inconvenient, but why are alot of things convenient. Why do planets hold objects to them, so we don't fly off? Why do planets orbit eachother so that we have night and day, and continue to stay at a safe distance from the sun, and other planets stay away from us long enough for us to evolve. Why aren't physics just random and wierd?

This is mainly why evolution is false! Doesn't anyone understand the process of how these things work?

You don't.

QUOTE
Everything on this earth as you see it, came from a supernatural deity, isn't that obvious!????

Only to you. LOL @Sean

Some just believe in magical powers.....meh I used to think superman was real too

it's pretty obveous that boltwave doesn't really understand much about science much less biology or physics for that matter...
i'm personally stunned that you are using the my computer is too slow arguments as for why you haven't read to other posts on this thread which wouldhave given you alittle more insite of this theory and what has already been discussed not to mention tons of great sites that would help you better understand the processes behinde evolution...
with that said i'm sorry that you think it's your responsability to tell all of us who do understand this theory alittle more then you that we are not using our brains and that this theory which to most people who have studied it and the evidence supporting it that it is "bunk"
also i would like to ask you how do you feel about the fact that science deals with evidence and things that can be proven where as religion doesn't?
in my opinio those two things can't even bee on the same playing field...
not to mention that no scientist would ever make a statment that god isn't real... much less that god is just air, especially when we understand what air is and how it works... by the way the process doesn't involve any supernatural beings jsut basic natural processes such as convection and molecules...
it's clear to me that you don't understand the theorys you're trying to disprove with you nonsese babble and there is nothing you've said so far that leads me to believe you've ever payed any attention in science class what so ever...
so now if you wold like to continue this discussion i would suggest rading the entire thread and the sites that deal with subjects that have already been explained and i'm sure once you uinderstand alittle better you will be able to acctually discuss the theory you are so quick to rule off as bunk....

manapa99, No offense but what happened to your spelling since I've been gone. >.>

Mystery Solved? Why Some Men Are Gay
http://channels.netscape.com/whatsnew/defa...y=20060521-0700

Sexual Orientation Not Debatable
http://webcenter.health.webmd.netscape.com...ntentSRC_nsmain



How is my behavior offensive to you? Why?



If we Atheists' hadn't asked these questions, broke the stranglehold of the Church, strove to seek/find answers, we would still be locked in the Early Middle Ages and the earth would still be at the center of the universe, demons and sin would still be the root-cause of illness etc.

Sean

Are you kidding? Einstein also proved a great probability in the idea that a diety does exist, so it goes both ways.



And you think science is helping this? Science isn't the solution to our problems, we can't depend on each other for everything, and we certaintly can't depend on ourselves, because we can't do everything, so what is it exactly that is going to be so incredibly perfect as to repair the damage done, or for that matter, go towards in a right path?



You can teach a chimp sign language, does that mean it understands what it means, or that certain symbols and gestures represent objects, to a chimp, a bannana means they did something good and a slap on the wrist means they did something wrong, anything I'm missing?



Uh huh, so that proves that we are living organisms? Oh boy, I had an appifany! All it says is that we're not a bunch of plants and flowers, so what?



No it's rather sad, you abadoned your faith for the theory that we used to scratch our asses on tree bark and throw each other's feces at each other, it really goes to show how weak in your faith you were, that you abadoned it for "science" and "proof" you want to "see the world for the way it is" because you don't want their to be a God controlling it, which brings my previous point up, you ran away because your afraid, yes your afraid, you don't even know it and your afraid of thinking that there is God no matter what type of bogus docuements you can throw at the subject that "disproves" his existence, I was never happy as an atheist, it really bothered me and I was mad at the world, on top of that I thought of everything your telling me right now, when you wake up, you see that it's man-made propaganda full of irelevant theories, we all know that the world happened somehow, you and I can't sit here all day and say "I don't care, I'll find out when I die" because then your just waisitng your life away.

But imagine if Jesus did existed, and that there is everything spiritual as described in the church, can you imagine what difference this makes for you? I would be ashamed to be an atheist, this is my opinion, but I would be stupid to go back thinking things happen just because they do, all you've done is put yourself in a situation of doubt and covering up anything that the bible says, or any mention, for that matter, about the mysteries of God.

Whatever weird and crazy way the universe works, I know one thing, that it's God's work, end of story.

I'm done with these types of arguements, it's just tossing hot air back and forth.

So are you a robot?? Zerobot?? LOL you can turn on and off a religious faith all because of a forum.....ookkaayy thennn There was me thinking you where the type of guy that didn't let anyone influence you LOL

No. Your link isn't working by the way.



Sorry, don't remember naming you.



I didn't say anything about any of that. I could care less. I'm talking about how some Atheist on here treat Christians.

BM, They just make me not want to be like them or grouped with them by other people. =P

You said Atheist. I'm an Atheist.



No ... what? No the mystery isn't solved?

Sean

Christians are just as bad to the NB's both are as bad as eachother...lets not forget that

Anyhoo Zero..you should not be here to take sides..you should just be yourself...dont turn off and on a religious faith all because of a few people who you will never meet...be yourself...for once speak your own mind...lets see the REAL you..and not the old one that backed up the christians...cuz when you state that..it proves you only ever ACTED the christian...cuz it was so easy to quit when you wernt on here....

As for me I will not change...I will back up BOTH sides...depending on which one makes sense...but then again I have never claimed to be either - a christian or a NB...thats whats best about me...I am ME..no one can influence me

You are not going to see much of Sheri LOL (your favourite skeptic lol) she has drifted to the Natural World boards...has drageed me over there too LOL that board can get a lot worse than this one...they are arguing over meat and veg LOL Sheri is all for vegans...I am all for meat...kinna like the NB's V's the religious LOL only this time Sheri is more like the religious

You can teach a chimp sign language, does that mean it understands what it means, or that certain symbols and gestures represent objects, to a chimp, a bannana means they did something good and a slap on the wrist means they did something wrong, anything I'm missing?

I just got dumber.

You’re missing the fact that they do understand.

I saw a chimp that asked for an apple, but his trainer said that there was none left. So the chimp told the guy to get in his car and go get one at the store.

Yea that really sounds like he doesn’t understands. Try learning something about what you post before you do.

And where was this? It's possible it could have been a rehearsed act, it still doesn't prove that chimps understand sqwat, just what they're being taught.



Oh my god, what is it with you and Christians BM? All you ever do is bring them up and give them bad reputation, that's more annoying than religious preaching, really it is, it's annoying that people can't let something go and move on and forget about what people "preach" and let them live their lives, instead it always has to be about who gets the best of who, it's very annoying.

The definition of a Christian is someone who excepts Christ, not someone who's religious, and if you've excepted Christ, that makes you a Christian, so why are you ALWAYS criticizing them just because they argue with skeptics for getting on their ass?

OMG what is it with you and not minding your own business...and not asking me what I meant since CLEARLY you didnt UNDERSTAND what I was SAYING did you??

When I told Zero he shouldnt be here taking the parts of the christians..it was not to get at christians so PIPE THE HECK DOWN gee everything has to be a fight with you dont it?/

Now since you DIDNT pay FULL attention to my previous post (as usual) I will explain it better

Zero said he was only a christian when he was on UM.....due to leaving UM for a long spell...he turned off religion ...with me so far?? ok... ...... .... He said that he ONLY did that because of the athiests on HERE 9still with me?)...so over all from reading his posts ....he wasnt a TRUE christian at heart...he was only ACTING like one to help the others FIGHT BACK at the Athiests....do you get it now??.....so......I told him..this

He shouldnt just come on here to ACT the christian just to get at the athiests.....you cant run on and off a faith just because of an online forum....thats not a TRUE FAITH IS IT??? (understand me now??) I told him INSTEAD...he should JUST BE HIMSELF......now Boltwave..tell me what is so wrong with that???

Lets say he flipped the coin...and said he only becomes an ATHIEST to get at the christians .....and I told him he shouldnt do it to back up the Athiests...tell me BOLTWAVE...would you have flew off at me for it being the other way round??...please answer that one with PURE HONESTY........My point to Zero was to tell him BE HIMSELF...not to go turning on faiths to get at others...<--that makes sense to me....if it dont make sense to you then you are bias..go figure

If you still cant understand that..then there is no helping you..and PS I DONT ALWAYS CRITCIZING THEM I told you many times and you even told me you finally understood me in PM...I have it as proof...I will agree with BOTH SIDES...gee you and your twisting always twisting...

Your absolutley right, he shouldn't turn on and off with faiths, but isn't that hypocritical? Look at what your doing! One minute your talking about how Christians and religion destroyed and messed up society, the next your defending them? That doesn't make sense, your either with someone or your not, and you have to admit, you have said quite a bit about Christians and how messed up religion is, I'm not sure that you would have gotten at Zero if he said anything about Christianity, or maybe you would of, I don't know, one thing's for sure is that I can't tell who's side your on, you can't pick at pieces of the bible and decide which ones your going to listen too and which ones your going to discard, if you believe in God as said in the bible, but you don't believe all of the other stuff, then where do you get the idea of God from? I'm not trying to infringe on you, I'm asking some clear cut questions, I couldn't understand what all the hype with Paranoid Android was about, and to me it seemed like you were over-reacting, I just don't know who you are with BM, that's all.

Yes you are right, Zeroshadow shouldn't switch beliefs like that for the heat of discussion, it's not ethical.

Okay, that same Chimp wanted to play, but the trainer wanted him to finish what they called his homework, which was learning signs and other things. When he was in the middle of his homework he looked at the trainer and said “Dumb Head” which he was never taught. And ran out the door saying, “You can’t catch me”. He was taught dumb and head but not together.

He made up an insult. Plus Chimps have a mindset of a fourth grader.

Scientists, unlike some other people, want to find facts why would they rehearsed something then say, yep that’s a fact. No that’s just stupid.

they have sophisticated hunting strategies that require cooperation, and allow animals to achieve influence and rank by sharing meat

they are highly status conscious and manipulative, capable of deception

they are analytical and problem-solvers, clearly capable of insight and complex "cognitive performance” in both the wild and in captivity, and particularly adept at analyzing relative relationships

language experiments have shown that chimps are creative, can learn to use symbols (and teach them to others) and understand aspects of human language including some relational syntax, concepts of number and numerical sequence

Hmmm......that's interesting, perhaps I stand corrected? (As far as chimps go)

Boltwave...I will defend a christian if that christian is being honest and decent and not showing arrogance..and there are a lot on here like that...

I can defend nboth sides..WHY?? cuz like I have told you before...I AM A BELIEVER BOLTWAVE...and part skeptic....I dont sit and claim to be part of a faith...nor do I sit and claim to be an athiest..you know this I have explained to you where I am coming from in pm just the other day..so when you replied --- ok I understand you now....I took that you actually did...now it looks as though you didnt

BM dont switch on a faith when she wants to...nor does she pretend to be an NB just at the drop of a hat...I am in the middle...a believer in God but dont follow a religious faith...I have my own private faith..thats how I am...some people respect that

This is all I am saying...so when you see me take the part and agree with a christian...thats only because I take the time to understand that christian...my own daughter is being raised a christian ...

There are christians on here that are so fun loving....like - Verax...this due has a sense of humour

Bluefinger...he puts on a front but defends his faith to the back bone..this you have to admire....he has a sense of humour too and can be decent...thing is heated debates can bring out a different side to him...but I can see how he really is...a nice guy...Irish is a very wise christian...gee I could go on Boltwave....and I can name a fewskeptics that are the same ...

Always remember BM is piggy in the middle.a believer with a hint of skeptic

Heck everyone is skeptic of something right?? And its not right to say you are only going to be a christian just for the sake of a few aithiests on a forum..thats not a true faith..thats USING the faith!!! I couldnt do that!! You either ARE a true believer in your faith or you aint...