Full Version: Why wont evolution work for you ?
it is so easy for those who simply refuse to understand a simple concept like evolution to bash it and say it's wrong. the fact is that they wish to cling to thier imaginary mythilogical buddy who lives in the sky and read a book supposedly inspired by this creature of the sky. it saddens me that so many connot see through the mist of mythology and let go of the biggotry ridden, hatred breeding, war mongering. there is but one race of man, the human race, and we should reallize that simple fact
I apologize in advance if someone has made this point already, but I am too ADHD to read 47 pages. I am a science teacher and have the evolution fight ALL THE %&$@# TIME. The best point I have been able to come up with to get the idea across to my students that evolution and the Bible are not contradictory has to do with Noah. If you take the story to be literal (which a lot of people do), how can you explain the fact that both chihuahuas and great danes exist when only two dogs were supposedly taken on the ark without letting evolution factor into the equation?
Actually I think the Noah's myth, preceded by the legend of Gilgamesh, was actually an account of what we would know today as genetic harvesting and storage. Consequently it would be easier to keep two of every species, (double helix) for the occasion. *just my thoughts, no bible smacking me around stuff, k?! 
QUOTE(Boltwave @ Jun 3 2006, 12:45 PM) [snapback]1216151[/snapback]
Two examples:
According to SaRuMaN's thread: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=70783 apes are more closely related to the female sex than males (don't ask me how this makes sense, but apparently it does
) this would imply that the human race (which evolved from ape like relatives) became human, and the male sex of humans evolved faster from that of the female sex, in the bible, it says this:I can't find anything about apes being more closely related to females in the thread you posted. Assuming that is true, it could just be the simple fact that the human X chromosome is a closer match to a certain ape chromosome than the human Y chromosome is due to the slight differences in genetic information encoded in them.
Other than that, thanks for the information.
EDIT: Nevermind, made a mistake. 
QUOTE
I can't find anything about apes being more closely related to females
That's impossible. No species can be related closer to one sex of another species.
QUOTE(Raptor X7 @ Jun 3 2006, 03:53 PM) [snapback]1216742[/snapback]
Well surely to some extent men would be more evolved? Back when humans were nomadic hunter-gatherers, the death rate must have been higher among males as they would be the ones to go hunting?
How does that...? I mean what does...?
Oy vey.
Well, considering that our ancestors were hairier with more aggressive, what does that say about men in general?
Since the fertilized egg has all trace of male mitochondrial DNA destroyed (though there are theories that 1-2% survive in BOTH males and females) and all embryos are female to begin with, then females are merely the default setting rather then "less evolved."
And can we stop using the "less and more evolved" as any sort of point. Like I said in another thread, the last time someone claimed a group of people was "less evolved" and "closer to apes" than another, they were referring to another race rather than gender.
QUOTE(zandore @ Jun 2 2006, 03:15 PM) [snapback]1215040[/snapback]
What a cool article. The circularity of the first person pronoun has been on my mind for a long time, actually, but it had never occurred to me that proprioception is central to self-consciousness. I have clear memories of language acquisition and dawning self awareness, and I remember struggling with the apparent paradox-- as a toddler! In retrospect, though, it seems to do with language more than proprioception. Guess I'll have to read the whole article.
BTW, to answer your question about what Genesis 2-3 has to do with evolution-- you were responding to my messages about that in the message quoted above. It was back around page 45 and before of this thread.
QUOTE(ivytheplant @ Jun 3 2006, 10:59 PM) [snapback]1216747[/snapback]
How does that...? I mean what does...?
Oy vey.
Well, considering that our ancestors were hairier with more aggressive, what does that say about men in general?
Since the fertilized egg has all trace of male mitochondrial DNA destroyed (though there are theories that 1-2% survive in BOTH males and females) and all embryos are female to begin with, then females are merely the default setting rather then "less evolved."
My point was that because males would be the ones to go hunting and would be the ones most vulnerable to being killed, they would end up becoming more specialised as there would be fewer males to pass on their genes.
QUOTE
And can we stop using the "less and more evolved" as any sort of point. Like I said in another thread, the last time someone claimed a group of people was "less evolved" and "closer to apes" than another, they were referring to another race rather than gender.
I don't know what you mean by 'as any sort of point', but the term 'evolve' was valid for the point I was making.
I realised I was wrong and deleted my post.
QUOTE
Actually I think the Noah's myth, preceded by the legend of Gilgamesh, was actually an account of what we would know today as genetic harvesting and storage. Consequently it would be easier to keep two of every species, (double helix) for the occasion. *just my thoughts, no bible smacking me around stuff, k?
SMACK! SMACK! SMACK!
The Sumerian Gilgamesh epic is much older than the Noah story by a few hundred years. It is consensus amongst scholars that this story was rewritten during the Babylonian exile (Diaspora, 500's BCE) by Hebrew priests when they began the writing of the Tanakh. The Babylonian creation epic, Enuma Elish, was also known to have been of strong influence.
Here are a few links if you're interested:
WIKI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilga...Epic_Literature
Evansville University: Epic of Gilgamesh
http://eawc.evansville.edu/nepage.htm
Fordham University: The Epic of Gilgamesh
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asbook03.html#Sumeria
Fordham University: Mythological Foundations
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asb...####Foundations
Oh, and did I mention ... SMACK! SMACK! SMACK!
Kindly,
Sean
To those of you who propose that "evolution is not a fact" or that Darwin's theory is not proven or needs more conclusive evidence, I have yet to get even one answer to the following questions:
1. How is it not a fact that many, more specialized organisms developed from fewer, less-specialized ones?
2. As to Darwin's theory, what part of "heritable traits are selected by the environment" needs more conclusive evidence?
3. What do you propose would be a plausible alternative explanation for the diversity of life?
Anyone who has opined on the non-factuality of evolution or the inconclusiveness of Darwinian reasoning is more than welcome to answer these questions.
1. How is it not a fact that many, more specialized organisms developed from fewer, less-specialized ones?
2. As to Darwin's theory, what part of "heritable traits are selected by the environment" needs more conclusive evidence?
3. What do you propose would be a plausible alternative explanation for the diversity of life?
Anyone who has opined on the non-factuality of evolution or the inconclusiveness of Darwinian reasoning is more than welcome to answer these questions.
QUOTE
Meh, evolution is bunk, that's all there is too it, there's no need to believe in it just as there is no need to be an atheist, see these people "think" they are using their brain to 100% of their fullest extent, but is this really putting your mind to the test and configuring the state of change by saying we came from a similiar division close to that of apes?
We are not monkies, we are not like monkies, the only things about monkies and us is our physical shape, that's it! Does anyone here realize that having a 2% similarity in genetic makeup and DNA strand is allot more in difference than what you might think it is? Pigs have the skin and the internal organs that humans do, and dolphins are the closest in developed mentality and the ability to comprehend simply by using their mind.
Here's what doesn't add up: doesn't the evolutionary progress lead to advancement? Or can it lead to a regression in attributed changes? You cannot have monkies, then pigs, then dolphins, then humans, it doesn't make sense and it doesn't add up, there isn't anything more to this, evolution and atheism are bunk, I'm sorry but that's all there is to it, bunk if you ask me, and no this isn't because of my personal opinions or viewed perceptions, it's because of one thing in mind: how does anything in the universe just happen? We mine as well "retard" ourselves down to the next lowest level and say that the sky is falling on top of our heads.
How funny though, that anything "just happens" I mean, how simple does it have to be people? It's an integrated thread of fabrications, EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON OR BECAUSE OF SOMETHING! It's a chain reaction for crying out loud people! Smell the coffee! I don't care if you agree with me or not, why not try thinking instead of pointing towards me calling me the ignorant one? I could sit through these theories all day and I would still hold the same opinions because it's mindless junk, if someone pulls a gun trigger and ends up shooting and killing someone, are you going to be there and say "it just happens dude, it's not like he influenced the pull of that trigger, it just happened out of nowhere."
Common sense has sure lost it's way with the human race, evolution is just another word for the complete opposite of what it means, it slows down any process of thinking and turns into theories that sound logical but are really just a waste of hot air, please try and think about it for a while, remember I've been in these similiar mood patterns and thought processes, the same "boat" if you will, so yes I know exactly what your saying, once you get to thinking about it, you will see it's nothing more than heresay nonsense.
As a side note, yes I'll agree there is a "evolutionary" development in the universe, but as someone said earlier, (can't remember who stated it) that it's micro development, not macro-organisms, and that, my dearies, is the only type of evolution we can base any sort of fact on.
We are not monkies, we are not like monkies, the only things about monkies and us is our physical shape, that's it! Does anyone here realize that having a 2% similarity in genetic makeup and DNA strand is allot more in difference than what you might think it is? Pigs have the skin and the internal organs that humans do, and dolphins are the closest in developed mentality and the ability to comprehend simply by using their mind.
Here's what doesn't add up: doesn't the evolutionary progress lead to advancement? Or can it lead to a regression in attributed changes? You cannot have monkies, then pigs, then dolphins, then humans, it doesn't make sense and it doesn't add up, there isn't anything more to this, evolution and atheism are bunk, I'm sorry but that's all there is to it, bunk if you ask me, and no this isn't because of my personal opinions or viewed perceptions, it's because of one thing in mind: how does anything in the universe just happen? We mine as well "retard" ourselves down to the next lowest level and say that the sky is falling on top of our heads.
How funny though, that anything "just happens" I mean, how simple does it have to be people? It's an integrated thread of fabrications, EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON OR BECAUSE OF SOMETHING! It's a chain reaction for crying out loud people! Smell the coffee! I don't care if you agree with me or not, why not try thinking instead of pointing towards me calling me the ignorant one? I could sit through these theories all day and I would still hold the same opinions because it's mindless junk, if someone pulls a gun trigger and ends up shooting and killing someone, are you going to be there and say "it just happens dude, it's not like he influenced the pull of that trigger, it just happened out of nowhere."
Common sense has sure lost it's way with the human race, evolution is just another word for the complete opposite of what it means, it slows down any process of thinking and turns into theories that sound logical but are really just a waste of hot air, please try and think about it for a while, remember I've been in these similiar mood patterns and thought processes, the same "boat" if you will, so yes I know exactly what your saying, once you get to thinking about it, you will see it's nothing more than heresay nonsense.
As a side note, yes I'll agree there is a "evolutionary" development in the universe, but as someone said earlier, (can't remember who stated it) that it's micro development, not macro-organisms, and that, my dearies, is the only type of evolution we can base any sort of fact on.
Thank you boltwave for you views you are proof of what I have thought for some time ,that people who do not accept evolution really only doubt out of ignorance.
Now don’t take offence to the word ignorance as it is no way intended as a personal derogatory remark I only use it to illustrate the common mindset you display
I won’t offer any counter to your comments as you would need some basic understanding of the concepts involved when conversing on a topic such as evolution something you clearly do not posses
Unfortunate for you those who do understand the concepts involved both believers and non believers alike see how silly and unfounded your comments are and how your miss understanding and inability to conceptualise evolution leads to your doubt
You see half truths and part understanding of evolution and indeed most scientific principles and mechanism are the root causes for most doubters .Its not that they are not so just the minds that try to harbour them lack the nessery frame work to base any real understanding .
It would be like trying to explain what a wall is without any knowledge of bricks
Now im not going to tell you you’re wrong in what you believe im strong enough in my own beliefs to accept others can have different views from my own. But what I will say as I said to blue who holds similar doubts as your self is that you cannot say something is incorrect with out knowing what you are trying to debunk
I suggest you read the other posts in this thread or seek knowledge relating to this topic else ware and expunge that lazy Bastard syndrome you your self acknowledge
And educate your self a little that way you will pose a more stimulating debate
And before you ask yes I have read the bible cover to cover and thought it a very enjoyable read and nothing besides
QUOTE(Boltwave @ Jun 5 2006, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1218798[/snapback]
Edit:Post deleted
Big Cheese..you made a great thread..if you want it to stay open you have to ignore the arrogance and ignorance of those that go out of their way to destroy it
Report it the more reports the more will get done
QUOTE(Big cheese @ Jun 5 2006, 07:05 AM) [snapback]1218843[/snapback]
nuff said then best you go do your homework and leave the adults to play with there words
Oooooh smart, now let's play a game of age condescending discrimination!
I liked how you pulled that one off, it's just as I predicted you would say something as low as that remark.
Perhaps you failed to look over the part where I said that without a creator being the backwheel evolution is bunk? Yes it's in here, you'll have to look around the thread and unless your blind you'll have no problem finding it.
Yes unlike you I read the whole thread I would as I started it now ill say one last time im not going to get into pointless flaming altho Im kind of glad you are young it explains a lot of the immature content of your posts something I would find quite frigning coming from an adult
Now with regards to your point you are admitting that evolution is a working biological process then yes? even if as you say reqires god And on that basis you can also accept that the bibles account on the origins of life are incorrect yes? For the two cannot co exist?
You see your whole foundation on which you base your argument on is that something cannot happen without a reason. A circular argument that leads one to ask the obvious question what is the cause and reason of god not something you can answer with any credibility. Had you understood the reason I started the thread you would see that its point was to show that lack of understanding is the cause for doubt and that evolution is in no way in conflict with the concept of god The fallibility of god and religious ideologies is another thread entirely
now on a side note somthing from nothing its a little complex but i think i found a simple version http://www.worsleyschool.net/science/files...um/physics.html
I hope this helps you understand a little better
Now with regards to your point you are admitting that evolution is a working biological process then yes? even if as you say reqires god And on that basis you can also accept that the bibles account on the origins of life are incorrect yes? For the two cannot co exist?
You see your whole foundation on which you base your argument on is that something cannot happen without a reason. A circular argument that leads one to ask the obvious question what is the cause and reason of god not something you can answer with any credibility. Had you understood the reason I started the thread you would see that its point was to show that lack of understanding is the cause for doubt and that evolution is in no way in conflict with the concept of god The fallibility of god and religious ideologies is another thread entirely
now on a side note somthing from nothing its a little complex but i think i found a simple version http://www.worsleyschool.net/science/files...um/physics.html
I hope this helps you understand a little better
Read, posts deleted.
Boltwave, I have deleted several of your posts for flaming. You are already on two warnings, this is now your third. Anymore of this type of behaviour and it will lead to suspensions.
Now lets get back on topic. Thanks
Boltwave, I have deleted several of your posts for flaming. You are already on two warnings, this is now your third. Anymore of this type of behaviour and it will lead to suspensions.
Now lets get back on topic. Thanks
QUOTE
BOLTWAVE
Perhaps you failed to look over the part where I said that without a creator being the backwheel evolution is bunk?
Perhaps you failed to look over the part where I said that without a creator being the backwheel evolution is bunk?
How can you possibly know this? Where is your evidence?
Also, if the universe cannot exist without a creator, than the creator cannot exist without a creator. So, BW, who created god? And who created the being that created god ad infinitum?
Sean
Np Lottie
An interesting link from a program i watched on national geographic
http://blogs.nationalgeographic.com/channe...lorer_adam.html
Regarding DNA and evidence suggesting past human migration that can be seen to support human evolution
An interesting link from a program i watched on national geographic
http://blogs.nationalgeographic.com/channe...lorer_adam.html
Regarding DNA and evidence suggesting past human migration that can be seen to support human evolution
QUOTE(seanph @ Jun 5 2006, 03:15 PM) [snapback]1218953[/snapback]
How can you possibly know this? Where is your evidence?
Also, if the universe cannot exist without a creator, than the creator cannot exist without a creator. So, BW, who created god? And who created the being that created god ad infinitum?
Sean
He doesnt know it he just believes there is a difference...no harm in his belief
Unfortunately, there is a great deal of harm, my sweet BM, in such beliefs. Why? Here in the US, schools are under attack by fundamentalists who are trying--and in some cases winning--to get ID (creationism) taught as real science in our classrooms. It's frightening to see stickers in biology texts warning that the contents contained within is just a theory! Yes, it has happened, and continues to happen. If it continues ... this country will be in a hell of a predicament!
Kindly,
Sean
Kindly,
Sean
QUOTE(seanph @ Jun 5 2006, 03:27 PM) [snapback]1218966[/snapback]
Unfortunately, there is a great deal of harm, my sweet BM, in such beliefs. Why? Here in the US, schools are under attack by fundamentalists who are trying--and in some cases winning--to get ID (creationism) taught as real science in our classrooms. It's frightening to see stickers in biology texts warning that the contents contained within is just a theory! Yes, it has happened, and continues to happen. If it continues ... this country will be in a hell of a predicament!
Kindly,
Sean
I fully understand you sean...heck I always have
I ... think I love you .... Ahhhh, nothing like an Irish lass!
Ahhhh, nothing like an Irish lass!
QUOTE(seanph @ Jun 5 2006, 03:15 PM) [snapback]1218953[/snapback]
How can you possibly know this? Where is your evidence?
Also, if the universe cannot exist without a creator, than the creator cannot exist without a creator. So, BW, who created god? And who created the being that created god ad infinitum?
Sean
You do strike a very good question, which i would imagine someone on this site has an answer for unfortunately not me.
I honestly don't know what to believe and i'm not ashamed to say that, the thing is with beliefs and opinions they are just that, no one is right or wrong until conclusive evidence proves it either way, until that day comes i will just keep an open mind and enjoy my happy little world with my monkeys.
Whilst being valid questions can we not go into the who made god argument as it is circular and has no answer can we just stick to evolution its implications when regarding the bible and the origins and progression of life and its validity
I agree a very frignting prospect luckily here in the school I currently work in no such ideas would be accepted and evolution is taught as the most probable explanation religion is left to the re department and children are taught to make there own mind up
QUOTE
Unfortunately, there is a great deal of harm, my sweet BM, in such beliefs. Why? Here in the US, schools are under attack by fundamentalists who are trying--and in some cases winning--to get ID (creationism) taught as real science in our classrooms. It's frightening to see stickers in biology texts warning that the contents contained within is just a theory! Yes, it has happened, and continues to happen. If it continues ... this country will be in a hell of a predicament!
I agree a very frignting prospect luckily here in the school I currently work in no such ideas would be accepted and evolution is taught as the most probable explanation religion is left to the re department and children are taught to make there own mind up
SORRY
QUOTE(seanph @ Jun 5 2006, 03:32 PM) [snapback]1218970[/snapback]
I ... think I love you ....
Ahhhh, nothing like an Irish lass! 
We irish are not the drunken fighters you hear about
NAWW we are lovers
not fighters
QUOTE
Whilst being valid questions can we not go into the who made god argument as it is circular and has no answer can we just stick to evolution its implications when regarding the bible and the origins and progression of life and its validity
I respectfully disagree, BC. We are talking about evolution from two different perspectives here ... spiritually and scientifically. From those arguing from a creation standpoint, I think it relevant to ask them how their god came to be? Did IT just pop into existence? If life evolved here and throughout the universe, would not god be subject to the same law?
Then, again, maybe this deserves a thread of its own? Hmmm...
Kindly,
Sean
fair point seanph i just didnt want it to degrade into a proove your god exsists thread
QUOTE(Big cheese @ Jun 5 2006, 04:40 PM) [snapback]1219053[/snapback]
fair point seanph i just didnt want it to degrade into a proove your god exsists thread
It shouldn't...but at one point it was a noahs ark thread
But hopefully its back to evolution
Good point, BC. Maybe my question should be saved for another thread. This topic is too interesting to go somewhere else with it.
Back to evolution as BM says!
So, Boltwave, can you answer my question regarding evidence? Or are you going to continue to ignore me?
Sean
Back to evolution as BM says!
So, Boltwave, can you answer my question regarding evidence? Or are you going to continue to ignore me?
Sean
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 5 2006, 10:44 AM) [snapback]1219059[/snapback]
It shouldn't...but at one point it was a Noah's ark thread
Yes, well that just examples a fondness for confined spaces and stinky animal butts! So don't be distracted.
DBL FUNNY!!!!!!!!! 
Where do you get this stufff, IF?!
Where do you get this stufff, IF?!
QUOTE(seanph @ Jun 5 2006, 09:15 AM) [snapback]1218953[/snapback]
How can you possibly know this? Where is your evidence?
Also, if the universe cannot exist without a creator, than the creator cannot exist without a creator. So, BW, who created god? And who created the being that created god ad infinitum?
Sean
And that's exactly what your missing when it comes to the ALMIGHTY.
So I will answer your question, being that God created everything, he has been here since the beginning, the present, and even unto the end.
And because God created EVERYTHING such as time itself, you'd see there is very little reason to even question who came before him, because he did in fact, create everything that there is.
How are we to know what came before GOD ALMIGHTY? As far as we are concerned, there are thousands upon thousands of more dimensions than just here on earth, God isn't a physical matter, and he's not a being, he's an omnipresent deity, our physical inventions are just of this earth, and nothing more, we can't detect him on heat sensors, or motion set cameras, because it's feebly constructed by humans, despite that we are among some of the most intelligent creations in the universe.
The story of Genesis does go into hand with evolution, you just have to read it correctly, or consider that the creation of the earth wasn't just 7 days, perhaps 7 million years? We'll never really know.
QUOTE(Boltwave @ Jun 5 2006, 11:18 PM) [snapback]1219618[/snapback]
The story of Genesis does go into hand with evolution, you just have to read it correctly
That much is true.
QUOTE
And because God created EVERYTHING such as time itself, you'd see there is very little reason to even question who came before him, because he did in fact, create everything that there is.
The same property can be attributed to whatever (non sentient) object created the universe in various beliefs...
QUOTE(Stellar @ Jun 5 2006, 11:44 PM) [snapback]1219642[/snapback]
The same property can be attributed to whatever (non sentient) object created the universe in various beliefs...
Yep. If God can exist without a prior cause, why not the universe?
QUOTE(Big cheese @ Jun 5 2006, 08:22 AM) [snapback]1218892[/snapback]
Yes unlike you I read the whole thread I would as I started it now ill say one last time im not going to get into pointless flaming altho Im kind of glad you are young it explains a lot of the immature content of your posts something I would find quite frigning coming from an adult
BC, just as a concluding statement, I have one thing in mind to look after that I don't have to worry about, and you know what that is? I'll tell you, it's the fact that me being younger means that I'll have the pleasure of still living even after you've pushed up daisies.
So here's a piece of advice: don't mock the younger generation just because of their age, by the looks of it most of them will outlive you anyways on the expiry date scale.
Glad to have had this conversation with you (and to have more youth than you'll ever have.)
QUOTE(Boltwave @ Jun 6 2006, 02:05 AM) [snapback]1219742[/snapback]
BC, just as a concluding statement, I have one thing in mind to look after that I don't have to worry about, and you know what that is? I tell you, it's the fact that me being younger means that I'll have the pleasure of still living even after you've pushed up daisies.
Glad to have had this conversation with you (and to have more youth than you'll ever have.)
Bolt...what you have just said is NOT going to solve anything
you could die at any given moment *touches wood you DONT*If you had of ignored his last comment..and showed more maturity...that would show just isand who isnt the RERAL adult You would have looked the real adult by doing just that
Some day you will be an adult and some teenager will blast at you too...then when you point out that the teenager is wrong ect..This could well happen..cuz what goes around...comes around....Its almost as if a lil 9 yr old telling you the same thing/...you wouldnt like it
Big cheese could well out live you ...just remember that
I dont see why you cant just leave it be and continue talking about the thread???
BIG CHEESE...please dont respond..if you want to keep your thread open...dont respond....and remember AGE has NOTHING to do with it
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 5 2006, 08:16 PM) [snapback]1219758[/snapback]
Bolt...what you have just said is NOT going to solve anything
you could die at any given moment *touches wood you DONT*If you had of ignored his last comment..and showed more maturity...that would show just isand who isnt the RERAL adult You would have looked the real adult by doing just that
Some day you will be an adult and some teenager will blast at you too...then when you point out that the teenager is wrong ect..This could well happen..cuz what goes around...comes around....Its almost as if a lil 9 yr old telling you the same thing/...you wouldnt like it
Big cheese could well out live you ...just remember that
I dont see why you cant just leave it be and continue talking about the thread???
BIG CHEESE...please dont respond..if you want to keep your thread open...dont respond....and remember AGE has NOTHING to do with it
I'm not one for mocking the under generation, because older people can be just as stupid as us naive teenagers.
QUOTE(Boltwave @ Jun 6 2006, 02:19 AM) [snapback]1219763[/snapback]
I'm not one for mocking the under generation, because older people can be just as stupid as us naive teenagers.
I wont dispute that Bolt...I know what its like to have people look down on me cuz I was just a teenager
Heck people look down on me for a lot of things including my faith...my choices..ect..that dont make them better than me..in fact it makes them lower than me to lower themselves to try and put me down
Everything has to start somewhere in the physical world. Something can not come from nothing. So the idea that the world just popped into being and started to evolve seems quite strange. If we add a Creator God, who is not subject to the Laws of this world, then it is quite possible to see this being does not fall under the same linear concept of "before" and "after" that this argument is based on.
Regards, PA
Regards, PA
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Jun 6 2006, 02:54 AM) [snapback]1219844[/snapback]
Everything has to start somewhere in the physical world. Something can not come from nothing. So the idea that the world just popped into being and started to evolve seems quite strange. If we add a Creator God, who is not subject to the Laws of this world, then it is quite possible to see this being does not fall under the same linear concept of "before" and "after" that this argument is based on.
Regards, PA
If God can simply pop into being without a prior cause, then why can't the universe itself? Because it "seems quite strange?" And God popping into existence and creating the universe doesn't?
QUOTE(boorite @ Jun 5 2006, 10:13 PM) [snapback]1219867[/snapback]
If God can simply pop into being without a prior cause, then why can't the universe itself? Because it "seems quite strange?" And God popping into existence and creating the universe doesn't?
God was ALWAYS there, he doesn't just pop into existence, he CREATES, let's say that the universe has always been there, what if God is the universe? That universe could have always been there, same thing with God.
As I said, a non-corporeal entity that isn't constrained by such human terms as "before" and "after" can easily always be there. Just "popping into existence" is a linear concept that our human minds are constrained to. If a creator did create our universe and everything in it, then it also created Time. Before that point, there was no such thing as before or after. It just Was.
QUOTE
BC, just as a concluding statement, I have one thing in mind to look after that I don't have to worry about, and you know what that is? I'll tell you, it's the fact that me being younger means that I'll have the pleasure of still living even after you've pushed up daisies.
So here's a piece of advice: don't mock the younger generation just because of their age, by the looks of it most of them will outlive you anyways on the expiry date scale.
Glad to have had this conversation with you (and to have more youth than you'll ever have.)
So here's a piece of advice: don't mock the younger generation just because of their age, by the looks of it most of them will outlive you anyways on the expiry date scale.
Glad to have had this conversation with you (and to have more youth than you'll ever have.)
first off i wasnt mocking your age only the content and manner of your posts now shush!
again back to the topic please
QUOTE
As I said, a non-corporeal entity that isn't constrained by such human terms as "before" and "after" can easily always be there. Just "popping into existence" is a linear concept that our human minds are constrained to. If a creator did create our universe and everything in it, then it also created Time. Before that point, there was no such thing as before or after. It just Was.
Sounds like the big bang ?
Is it not possible that the idea that the universe has no purpose no cause is also a concept that our human minds have trouble with conceptually? Like you say the linear nature of our consousness requires cause and effect for things to fit when we try to imagine out side of that it’s very hard and the idea of purpose and reason makes it a little easer. Maybe god is in our biology rather than our reality? And serves to help the human mind cope with what could be seen as a very large harsh universe totally unconnected to us as a sentient organism
Also it is said that god created time with the universe is time constant from the point of its creation and what is the purpose for the expansion of the universe in a religious context?
QUOTE(Boltwave @ Jun 6 2006, 03:05 AM) [snapback]1219742[/snapback]
BC, just as a concluding statement, I have one thing in mind to look after that I don't have to worry about, and you know what that is? I'll tell you, it's the fact that me being younger means that I'll have the pleasure of still living even after you've pushed up daisies.
You really go to extremes just to insult people, don't you? It is annoying to be treated differently because of age, but even so, I agree with BM, it does lower us to their level if we throw insults right back at them...
Getting back to the topic, the idea that God created himself, doesn't make sense to me... Because if God didn't exist before he created himself, how could he have been around to create himself?
QUOTE(rhyknow @ Jun 6 2006, 10:06 AM) [snapback]1220057[/snapback]
You really go to extremes just to insult people, don't you? It is annoying to be treated differently because of age, but even so, I agree with BM, it does lower us to their level if we throw insults right back at them...
Getting back to the topic, the idea that God created himself, doesn't make sense to me... Because if God didn't exist before he created himself, how could he have been around to create himself?
I am a believer in God...and to try and imagine what was there before him...it baffles me...I dont know to be honest...so like the rest of the believer ..............he was always there.....
We say he was always there because we dont know....it dont even say in the bible what created God...
The question you ask is a good question....a very good question...as I can look at it from both the religious views and the skeptics veiws....I can say....from a skeptical point...Man created God, as an explaination as to how we all got here, and as an explaination as to how all living things got here....its also an explaination as to how the universe was created....the easist answer is to say there has to be a God like being to create all of this...its the easiest answer there is...one that dont take much thinking...not too complex eh??
From a religious view...God was always there
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 6 2006, 02:56 PM) [snapback]1220187[/snapback]
...Man created God,[/b] as an explaination as to how we all got here, and as an explaination as to how all living things got here....its also an explaination as to how the universe was created....the easist answer is to say there has to be a God like being to create all of this...its the easiest answer there is...one that dont take much thinking...not too complex eh??
From a religious view...God was always there
OK, from a skeptics view, Man created God... meaning that God didn't create man, right? So this is where we can use the theory of evolution (called EVILution by a lot of chritians i know
) and we're assuming that Man created God to fill the void in his existance, to give Man a reason to live.And from a religious view, God was always there... again, it doesn't make sense... in fact, it contradicts itself in a way... God was always there... But what came before God?
I know i'm repeating myself, but it just really doesn't make sense at all...And for all the people who don't beleive in evolution, the evidence is right in front of you!!! Especially in the UK with chavs who don't quite seem to have gotten those thumbs that humans today have... They are less evolved than us, there's your evidence...
QUOTE
So I will answer your question, being that God created everything, he has been here since the beginning, the present, and even unto the end.
Fair enough.
QUOTE
And because God created EVERYTHING such as time itself, you'd see there is very little reason to even question who came before him, because he did in fact, create everything that there is.
I respectfully disagree. I think it vital to question and seek answers to all things. Even the scripture says this.
QUOTE
How are we to know what came before GOD ALMIGHTY?
I don't know ... but I'd sure like to find out!
QUOTE
As far as we are concerned, there are thousands upon thousands of more dimensions than just here on earth, God isn't a physical matter, and he's not a being
I agree. I believe that, as M-theory states, we are apart of a multiverse and there are an infinite number of universes. And, if god does exist, IT is unknowable and not of physical matter.
QUOTE
...despite that we are among some of the most intelligent creations in the universe.
I sometimes question this. It seems the only thing we have perfected ... is how to kill and hate one another.
QUOTE
The story of Genesis does go into hand with evolution, you just have to read it correctly, or consider that the creation of the earth wasn't just 7 days, perhaps 7 million years?
I respectfully disagree. Genesis is allegorical and not meant to be taken literally. It is a primeval narrative composed from older well known and very popular Assyrian/Babylonian et al creation epics. Even the Vatican and Hebrew scholars freely admit this.
... This explains in part the parallels to the themes of the creation story in many other cultures. These parallels were not necessarily due to literary derivation; rather, questions about origins were asked everywhere in early human history. Therefore, primeval events cannot be understood or described as the beginning of history; it is misguided to inquire about their “historicity.” The appropriate question to ask of this material is not, “Did it really happen that way?” but, “Is it our world that is being portrayed? Is this description of human beings accurate?” The essential fact is that, in describing creation, people for the first time grasped the world, and humanity, as a whole.--Oxford Companion to the Bible, CLAUS WESTERMANN, Professor of Old Testament at the University of Heidelberg
QUOTE
We'll never really know.
Completely agree.
Kindly,
Sean
QUOTE
OK, from a skeptics view, Man created God... meaning that God didn't create man, right? So this is where we can use the theory of evolution (called EVILution by a lot of chritians i know grin2.gif ) and we're assuming that Man created God to fill the void in his existance, to give Man a reason to live.
And from a religious view, God was always there... again, it doesn't make sense... in fact, it contradicts itself in a way... God was always there... But what came before God? hmm.gif I know i'm repeating myself, but it just really doesn't make sense at all...
And for all the people who don't beleive in evolution, the evidence is right in front of you!!! Especially in the UK with chavs who don't quite seem to have gotten those thumbs that humans today have... They are less evolved than us, there's your evidence...
And from a religious view, God was always there... again, it doesn't make sense... in fact, it contradicts itself in a way... God was always there... But what came before God? hmm.gif I know i'm repeating myself, but it just really doesn't make sense at all...
And for all the people who don't beleive in evolution, the evidence is right in front of you!!! Especially in the UK with chavs who don't quite seem to have gotten those thumbs that humans today have... They are less evolved than us, there's your evidence...
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.