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Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Spirituality vs Skepticism
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Big cheese
QUOTE
And for all the people who don't beleive in evolution, the evidence is right in front of you!!! Especially in the UK with chavs who don't quite seem to have gotten those thumbs that humans today have... They are less evolved than us, there's your evidence...


lol i think you must be from my neck of the woods to chav or not to chav
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(rhyknow @ Jun 6 2006, 02:25 PM) [snapback]1220215[/snapback]

OK, from a skeptics view, Man created God... meaning that God didn't create man, right? So this is where we can use the theory of evolution (called EVILution by a lot of chritians i know grin2.gif ) and we're assuming that Man created God to fill the void in his existance, to give Man a reason to live.
And from a religious view, God was always there... again, it doesn't make sense... in fact, it contradicts itself in a way... God was always there... But what came before God? hmm.gif I know i'm repeating myself, but it just really doesn't make sense at all...

And for all the people who don't beleive in evolution, the evidence is right in front of you!!! Especially in the UK with chavs who don't quite seem to have gotten those thumbs that humans today have... They are less evolved than us, there's your evidence... w00t.gif

LOL I just said Man created God ya big chav w00t.gif (j//k you aint a chav)

I mentioned from a religious point of view....I mentioned a skeptics point of view.........now here is BM's point of view heh heh...

God created evolution...we ALL evolved over a period of billions of years...God created the bacteria from which every living thing came yes.gif thats MY point of view...good one init?? w00t.gif


PS for those of you that don't know what a chav is....its a british version of what most of your americans call red necksuser posted imagebling bling!!!
seanph
QUOTE
I'll tell you, it's the fact that me being younger means that I'll have the pleasure of still living even after you've pushed up daisies.


So, BW, is just a youngster, eh? Let me explain something to you, young man, from experience ... Do not think for one moment that you are invulnerable. I was paralyzed in a car accident at the ripe old age of seventeen. I died twice and was revived. I now sit, trapped within the prison that is my body, in a wheelchair, paralyzed from the neck down. Two years after my own accident, my dearest friend was killed in a car accident. She was seventeen as well.

It has now been over twenty years. That is a long time to sit and meditate on life. Trust me ... you're too young to be absolutely sure about how to live life and what it means. I sure don't.

QUOTE
So here's a piece of advice: don't mock the younger generation just because of their age


And I would say the same to you. Give a listen to those of us who have been there and done that. With age, comes wisdom--for some anyway. And don't make up your mind that something is true so hastily and without fully researching both sides of an issue first. This takes time--in some cases many years. Just do your best to be open-minded and objective. Believe me, I know from personal experience that this can be excruciatingly hard.

Respectfully,

Sean
rhyknow
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 6 2006, 04:33 PM) [snapback]1220289[/snapback]

LOL I just said Man created God ya big chav w00t.gif (j//k you aint a chav)

I mentioned from a religious point of view....I mentioned a skeptics point of view.........now here is BM's point of view heh heh...

God created evolution...we ALL evolved over a period of billions of years...God created the bacteria from which every living thing came yes.gif thats MY point of view...good one init?? w00t.gif
PS for those of you that don't know what a chav is....its a british version of what most of your americans call red necksuser posted imagebling bling!!!



hmm... yeah, it's a good theory... but since i don't beleive in God, i'd say that the Big Bang created this universe... But how? Well, consider that the universe is always expanding... Scientists think that at some point in time, it'll stop growing and start shrinking 'till it implodes on itself... Now, I think that when the universe implodes on itself, it creates the Big Bang that pushes the universe out and starts it expanding again, so technically, there could have been hundreds of billions of universes already... Then, due to the big bang, the remnants of bacteria from the previous universe landed on Earth and other planets, and that bacteria started to evolve, coincidentally enough, this bacteria helped shape the Earth's atmosphere to make it habitable... billions of years along the line, we come along and start trying to eat everything that moves and build condos on top of everything that doesn't move... And one day, we'll all evolve into a fat blob with a TV remote built into one hand, and a cup and a trough built into our chests so we can eat without using up any energy... The future generation will just sit indoors all day getting rickets from legs they don't use and getting fat from eating too many mars bars... grin2.gif

But seriously... the idea that God created woman from man is, to me, insane... Apparently when the human fetus is in the womb, all humans are female to start off with... Then some develop into males and some just stay female... so technically, we all are created from women... But God created woman from man?? That's sorta saying that women are like spare ribs you get with chinese take-aways w00t.gif which is insane...
zandore
QUOTE(Boltwave @ Jun 5 2006, 09:05 PM) [snapback]1219742[/snapback]

BC, just as a concluding statement, I have one thing in mind to look after that I don't have to worry about, and you know what that is? I'll tell you, it's the fact that me being younger means that I'll have the pleasure of still living even after you've pushed up daisies. grin2.gif
But while we coexist.....we 'senior citizens' have more knowledge that 'you children' thumbsup.gif


QUOTE(Boltwave @ Jun 5 2006, 09:05 PM) [snapback]1219742[/snapback]

So here's a piece of advice: don't mock the younger generation just because of their age, by the looks of it most of them will outlive you anyways on the expiry date scale.
Just as we were learning things before you were born laugh.gif thumbsup.gif
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(rhyknow @ Jun 6 2006, 03:46 PM) [snapback]1220306[/snapback]

hmm... yeah, it's a good theory... but since i don't beleive in God, i'd say that the Big Bang created this universe... But how? Well, consider that the universe is always expanding... Scientists think that at some point in time, it'll stop growing and start shrinking 'till it implodes on itself... Now, I think that when the universe implodes on itself, it creates the Big Bang that pushes the universe out and starts it expanding again, so technically, there could have been hundreds of billions of universes already... Then, due to the big bang, the remnants of bacteria from the previous universe landed on Earth and other planets, and that bacteria started to evolve, coincidentally enough, this bacteria helped shape the Earth's atmosphere to make it habitable... billions of years along the line, we come along and start trying to eat everything that moves and build condos on top of everything that doesn't move... And one day, we'll all evolve into a fat blob with a TV remote built into one hand, and a cup and a trough built into our chests so we can eat without using up any energy... The future generation will just sit indoors all day getting rickets from legs they don't use and getting fat from eating too many mars bars... grin2.gif

But seriously... the idea that God created woman from man is, to me, insane... Apparently when the human fetus is in the womb, all humans are female to start off with... Then some develop into males and some just stay female... so technically, we all are created from women... But God created woman from man?? That's sorta saying that women are like spare ribs you get with chinese take-aways w00t.gif which is insane...


The big bang is just another theory..but a good one...I cant dismiss it just because I believe in God right???

I was brought up to believe in the bible.....like you where brought up an athiest...difference is....I became a free thinker and dismissed the bible...and went alone....you havent dismissed your upbringing...not that I am mocking I am not..but you never got the best of both worlds like I have.....you can only look at it from ONE point of view...and thats a skeptics point of view grin2.gif

For all I know is that God probably created the big bang that to us is huge...but to him..iis just like blowing his nose LOL...one thing is for sure...we ALL EVOLVED..that is something I can agree on (well me and the skeptics not me and the christians lol) grin2.gif
seanph
Rhyknow, M-Theory--and I'm sure you're aware of this, but for those who are not--actually explains the Big Bang. We are a part, as the theory goes, of an infinite number of universes. Two of these universes collide ... and BANG, Einstein's Theory of Relitivity kicks in--energy becomes matter--and a new universe is created. Pretty amazing stuff.

Dr. Michio Kaku on M-Theory
http://www.mkaku.org/articles/mtheory_superstrings.shtml

Kindly,

Sean
zandore
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 6 2006, 08:56 AM) [snapback]1220187[/snapback]

...as I can look at it from both the religious views and the skeptics veiws....I can say....from a skeptical point...Man created God, as an explaination as to how we all got here, and as an explaination as to how all living things got here....
Skeptical point of view.....man created all gods.

Welcome to Godchecker - your Guide to the Gods

We have more Gods than you can shake a stick at. Godchecker's Mythology Encyclopedia currently features
over 2,850 deities.

Browse the pantheons of the world, explore ancient myths, and discover Gods of everything from Fertility to Fluff with the fully searchable Holy Database Of All Known Gods.

godchecker.com
rhyknow
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 6 2006, 04:53 PM) [snapback]1220323[/snapback]

The big bang is just another theory..but a good one...I cant dismiss it just because I believe in God right???

I was brought up to believe in the bible.....like you where brought up an athiest...difference is....I became a free thinker and dismissed the bible...and went alone....you havent dismissed your upbringing...not that I am mocking I am not..but you never got the best of both worlds like I have.....you can only look at it from ONE point of view...and thats a skeptics point of view grin2.gif

For all I know is that God probably created the big bang that to us is huge...but to him..iis just like blowing his nose LOL...one thing is for sure...we ALL EVOLVED..that is something I can agree on (well me and the skeptics not me and the christians lol) grin2.gif



True, you can't dismiss it just for beleiving in God... As for free thinking, I see where you are coming from... I have had many christians patiently explain to me what they all beleive, and i kept an open mind... even though i was brought up atheist... And I see how a lot of the christian faith contradicts itself on regular occasions... whenever I bring this up to christians they basically say "it's gods will" as if that answers everything... which it doesn't...

For the christians out there, I have one question... One little thing i am unsure about...
Do you beleive that God creates each and every human being? In other words, if a human I honestly don't know... or does he just leave the humans to it?

Rhy
rhyknow
QUOTE(seanph @ Jun 6 2006, 05:03 PM) [snapback]1220340[/snapback]

Rhyknow, M-Theory--and I'm sure you're aware of this, but for those who are not--actually explains the Big Bang. We are a part, as the theory goes, of an infinite number of universes. Two of these universes collide ... and BANG, Einstein's Theory of Relitivity kicks in--energy becomes matter--and a new universe is created. Pretty amazing stuff.

Dr. Michio Kaku on M-Theory
http://www.mkaku.org/articles/mtheory_superstrings.shtml

Kindly,

Sean



Yeah, i love astrology and physics... When you say infinite number of universes, do you mean parallel universes? If so, "Universe" is a bit of a misnomer LOL
seanph
Ah, yes, a multiverse existing in, I believe, 11 dimensions. Boggles the mind! wink2.gif

Kindly,

Sean
Beckys_Mom
I dunno about the rest of you but you have to hand it to Big Cheese for creating such a strong thread and Sean for keeping it strong thumbsup.gif Good for you guys!!!
Boltwave
QUOTE(seanph @ Jun 6 2006, 09:46 AM) [snapback]1220304[/snapback]

So, BW, is just a youngster, eh? Let me explain something to you, young man, from experience ... Do not think for one moment that you are invulnerable. I was paralyzed in a car accident at the ripe old age of seventeen. I died twice and was revived. I now sit, trapped within the prison that is my body, in a wheelchair, paralyzed from the neck down. Two years after my own accident, my dearest friend was killed in a car accident. She was seventeen as well.

It has now been over twenty years. That is a long time to sit and meditate on life. Trust me ... you're too young to be absolutely sure about how to live life and what it means. I sure don't.
And I would say the same to you. Give a listen to those of us who have been there and done that. With age, comes wisdom--for some anyway. And don't make up your mind that something is true so hastily and without fully researching both sides of an issue first. This takes time--in some cases many years. Just do your best to be open-minded and objective. Believe me, I know from personal experience that this can be excruciatingly hard.

Respectfully,

Sean


AND YOUR GOING TO GIVE ME THAT TYPE OF ADVICE? w00t.gif I'm sorry but you don't know who your talking too about these things, I'm not the typical "youngster" you'd be giving this type of lecture too.

First of all I too was hit by car, going nearly 50 miles per hour at tops, I was chucked flying in mid air while a large SUV came by and hit me on my right side of my chest, I was suspended in air (at least through my eye view) and I could have easily been up there 10 feet from the hard concrete ground, now this was because I was first then rammed in my side and I went toppling on the top of the vehicle from the windowshield up, before flinging back from the movement the car was going. Before I hit the street, I could remember just before crashing and landing on the back of my skull area, a bright light that almost 'dimmed' the sunlight out from showing, and soon after that, I black out seeing a nothingness as if I've been blinded and my ears ring like crazy, in a sudden instance (what it felt like to self) I had awoken after my vision had set in to see a crowd of people standing over me, at first I thought I was dead, but when I realized I wasn't, I became hysterical thinking for sure I was, I guess you could say I either had 'demons' or I was reacting from my body that underwent great amounts of shock, with this in mind I attacked the man trying to put the neck cast on, and you want to know something else that's interesting? I was still very concious to see myself act out of control, but I wasn't there to control it, it took a couple of men to pin me down to the ground and finely get the cast on me, then they loaded me up onto a slab and threw me inside the ambulance truck, as terrifyed as I was from my "episode" I felt the beating of my heart getting faster and faster (and also remember that I couldn't feel my lower body only the area around my neck and head) I had a bloody damn headache and on top of that I had thoughts racing through my head that where also out of control, I though of my family and everyone else I could remember, or that I've known throughout my past life, the worst out of all this was the feeling that I was an atheist and I felt something I couldn't before, it wasn't the typical 'fear of death' trauma that anyone would get, it was the fear that me being an atheist at that time brought much to think about it and the fact that I felt there was a supernatural deity and that very moment, so I did something I don't normally do or would have done, I prayed to God (if there was one) that I wouldn't die and go somewhere I might end up regretting for eternal life, whatever that may be, all in all the paramedics were asking me some additional information on where to contact my guardian and etc. etc., my mind could only think of these specific things so therefore I blocked them out from my heartbeating and the rush of fear that came over me, it was what you would call "overwhelming."

After I prayed, I didn't get a response of any kind or a voice inside my head that people hear of and want to get after, no, that didn't happen, I was assured that whatever God is up there had left me, because I was an atheist and I just gave up my chances, that increased my fear to the fullest, that I would die and also go somewhere I could not possibly imagine where, so with all of this crammed inside my jelly filled brain (after the concisioun I came out with secreated blood around the outside of my skull much like an sponge-like material with a fat-like thickness) I was rushed through the ER where they pushed me through cat scans and shoved tranqualizers down my throat until I was again slowly put to sleep, waking up later in a hospital bed in one of the rooms, with once again the bloody stiff neck cast around me, still unable to feel my torso and lower end, my dad was there and he wasn't crying or anything, I guess he just held it in, but then again he seemed so happy to be there at the hosptial with me, and I wasn't exactly sure as to why.

No I wasn't "miserable and unhappy" as you would think I would have been, I was more afraid of dying and not knowing what lyed ahead for me, whether it be heaven or hell, you know you take the time to think about these things even as an atheist, or at least I would hope for the most part, I know I did.


After a few more transfers to other hospital rooms the doctor was about to break the results of the cat scan and etc., etc., to my dad and self, and while waiting I could have only thought about the idea of the doctor saying "he is going to die", but I will tell you what happened instead, the doctor said I was going to live, and that my accident, although well near spent to death, that I would heal in at least two weeks, being mobile and completely functional again, the doctors say that despite the blood filled areas for some reason he couldn't make it out but I was going to live regardless, the doctors mentioned they hadn't seen anything like it before, as most people in these types of accidents would have died or end up being parilayzed for the rest of their lives, I couldn't believe it myself when I was said I was going to live again.

Over the two in a half days I was in the hospital, it seemed more like a week and a half spent in excruciating pain and unable to walk steadily out of bed just to get around only a slightly little, and the fact I was unable to move around much in my bed, meaning that I was stuck in the same position for two in a half days straight, and three hours seemed like twenty four, to put it in shorter words, the time I was experiencing was worse than any other as it only seemed to take longer for me to get out of the position I was in, nonetheless, knowing I was going to live.

I came out of the hosptial, luckily the neck cast was taken off and I could move the area that I was locked tightly in for the time being, and walking became a difficult task to get ahold of my mobility once again, it was much like learning how to take baby steps, much like a toddler does, a couple of the times I nearly fell down the stairs (grin2.gif), and a few times my dad would help me around the house, it was a miserable moment I was experiencing but I became convinced that things were for the better, I literally felt like a dead zombie, a person without a mind to control like their own, that wasn't the case for me, as it came across myself.

It was allot like when you watch a TV show about someone who goes through a "life changing experience" and then they have to at least try (although they sit around and became hesitant and give up on hope) and get back to the starting point from which they came from, despite their dispositions, which I know that's what you have and trust me I know slightly what that feels like, I can of course walk and gained all of my normal physical health, and with a few more extra sharp senses of course, I do feel sorry that I you live in a disposition and I don't, but the fact of the matter is that I came very close, and it's not easy when you feel death is coming after you and you can't even blink because that gets your guard down.

When the doctors said I would heal in two weeks, I healed in less, I started walking again just fine and got used to do doing so in three to four days after I had just come out of the hospital, I was completely healthy and I felt strong in some weak areas, I didn't feel invincible, and it's one of the main reasons I would love to get an inner connection to the creator of the universe, whatever the hell he is, I have no doubts in my mind that it's the God that was talked about in the bible, why? Because later on my dad tells me a story of how he had his friends pray, my entire family pray, even people I didn't know about but somehow had a connection to our family prayed, I didn't know what to think with all of this being thrown in my direction, my mom who came down all the way from Montana was driving all the way down to Colorado just to see me in the hospital, the roads were icy and she almost slipped and fell into a ditch, but ironically something stopped her on the way, you never know what happens in these types of situations, good thing she wasn't hurt and made it on her way.

The main difference between you and I is that I prayed, even though I was a completely non-believing atheist, you might also find it suprising, that a month before that accident, a man from Nigeria told me that I was to be a great preacher, and this is no lie, he was a minister who has lived under much opression and hatred by his government towards his people, I didn't take this into mind and soon forgot about it and went on living because I thought this guy (like any other Christian) was a whackjob and didn't know what he was talking about, looks like this was my mistake.

I'm not going to go into much detail of how that happened, but please don't give me a lecture on how to appreciate life because you went through your accident, I certaintly went through mine, and it's not very pleasant as you and I can both see, I'm trying to look for answers and I'm still seeking to this very day, because of all that's happened to me, no I'm not making any of this up so you'll believe me, every detail down to the last word happened, I'm confused at how the world works, but I'm going to keep on trying to seek a spirituality of sorts, allot of you might try to tear at me and tell me how I survived this accident without the doing of a "supernatural deity", and the fact is it doesn't matter, and I'm not here to compare stories, but please don't hand out lectures like that one to me again, I'm serious, because despite the situation your in, I went through hell trying to get out and make it and survive, thanks for trying to give me a "life lesson" but I don't really need that criticism even though it's constructive, and no one here please tell that I do, because I don't, no matter how much you decide to pick apart at this, so I'd appreciate it if we don't have conversations like this one in the future, I had to control myself from getting crazy and cussing and showing a bad sense of character, so please, don't tell me anything like that again, I find it offensive and ignorant, that's just my opinion but only because I've been there, I thank you for your time trying to be a role figure though, but I don't need the specific criticism your throwing my way.

Thank you for reading.
Big cheese
[quote]Ah, yes, a multiverse existing in, I believe, 11 dimensions. Boggles the mind[quote]

I think there was even a split in the scientific comunity as to wether it was 10 dimentions or 11 huh.gif gets confusing after that

[quote] dunno about the rest of you but you have to hand it to Big Cheese for creating such a strong thread and Sean for keeping it strong Good for you guys!!![/quote]

Theres plenty of inteligence out there in all camps just takes 1 match to start the fire grin2.gif
boorite
QUOTE(Boltwave @ Jun 6 2006, 01:05 AM) [snapback]1219742[/snapback]

BC, just as a concluding statement, I have one thing in mind to look after that I don't have to worry about, and you know what that is? I'll tell you, it's the fact that me being younger means that I'll have the pleasure of still living even after you've pushed up daisies. grin2.gif


Not if I come over there and stomp a hole in your assumptions. wink2.gif

Edit: The above is just a friendly joke. LOL, J/K, etc. Someone PM'ed me saying I ought to change the post, and I thought, surely we're not that uptight here...?
seanph
BW, I was trying to offer friendly advice and be polite as promised in another thread. My lecture was not that at all, just a personal experience that I thought a young man such as yourself might appreciate and be grateful for. Of course, you found my advice "offensive and ignorant" and I should have known better. Sorry for simply trying to be kind and bury the hatchet.

As for your accident ... You received a nasty bump on the head and recovered. You're fortunate, and I'm glad that it was not more serious. I died twice, spent six months in the hospital, was left quadriplegic, confined to an electric wheelchair, and am now in declining health. I'll be heading to a nursing home in the next couple of years to live out the rest of my days (I just turned 38). It can happen to you as well, which was a point I was trying to make above (youth offers no protection against life). I hope it doesn't. This is something I would not wish on my worst enemy.

Sorry to have wasted your time and mine.

Sean
boorite
QUOTE(seanph @ Jun 6 2006, 03:03 PM) [snapback]1220340[/snapback]

Rhyknow, M-Theory--and I'm sure you're aware of this, but for those who are not--actually explains the Big Bang. We are a part, as the theory goes, of an infinite number of universes. Two of these universes collide ... and BANG


Or SPLAT, according to Paul Steinhardt and the ekpyrotic model.
Boltwave
QUOTE(seanph @ Jun 6 2006, 03:21 PM) [snapback]1220768[/snapback]

BW, I was trying to offer friendly advice and be polite as promised in another thread. My lecture was not that at all, just a personal experience that I thought a young man such as yourself might appreciate and be grateful for. Of course, you found my advice "offensive and ignorant" and I should have known better. Sorry for simply trying to be kind and bury the hatchet.

As for your accident ... You received a nasty bump on the head and recovered. You're fortunate, and I'm glad that it was not more serious. I died twice, spent six months in the hospital, was left quadriplegic, confined to an electric wheelchair, and am now in declining health. I'll be heading to a nursing home in the next couple of years to live out the rest of my days (I just turned 38). It can happen to you as well, which was a point I was trying to make above. I hope it doesn't. This is something I would not wish on my worst enemy.

Sorry to have wasted your time and mine.

Sean


I'm awfully sorry to hear that......seriously. no.gif hmm.gif
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(Boltwave @ Jun 6 2006, 10:12 PM) [snapback]1220846[/snapback]

I'm awfully sorry to hear that......seriously. no.gif hmm.gif

Just when you think you have problems Bolt..always remember there are those worse off than you yes.gif
Boltwave
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 6 2006, 04:25 PM) [snapback]1220865[/snapback]

Just when you think you have problems Bolt..always remember there are those worse off than you yes.gif


huh.gif Uhhhh......I don't think I ever doubted that. no.gif
cutewhenyoubiteme
QUOTE(Big cheese @ Jun 6 2006, 08:29 PM) [snapback]1220687[/snapback]

I think there was even a split in the scientific comunity as to wether it was 10 dimentions or 11 gets confusing after that



Yea, actually with the 10 dimensions there was 5 different, seemingly correct, yet slightly contradictory theories. The eleventh dimension solved the equation in regards to showing these were 5 seperate viewpoints of the same thing and unifying the theory/equations , known now as M theory.

Also when thinking of these different dimensions it seems wild, but they are micro variations (in our space at least) that give the vibrating string the abilty to bend above the 4 dimensions they need that are familiar to us, on this scale.

Heres a full 3 hours of video (some of the comparisons he makes for the layman are in my op way more confusing than it would be if he just laid it straight lol) but it is by far the best video i know on this subject!

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

hope someone enjoys this wink2.gif

[edited for spelling]
rhyknow
QUOTE(seanph @ Jun 6 2006, 10:21 PM) [snapback]1220768[/snapback]

BW, I was trying to offer friendly advice and be polite as promised in another thread. My lecture was not that at all, just a personal experience that I thought a young man such as yourself might appreciate and be grateful for. Of course, you found my advice "offensive and ignorant" and I should have known better. Sorry for simply trying to be kind and bury the hatchet.

As for your accident ... You received a nasty bump on the head and recovered. You're fortunate, and I'm glad that it was not more serious. I died twice, spent six months in the hospital, was left quadriplegic, confined to an electric wheelchair, and am now in declining health. I'll be heading to a nursing home in the next couple of years to live out the rest of my days (I just turned 38). It can happen to you as well, which was a point I was trying to make above (youth offers no protection against life). I hope it doesn't. This is something I would not wish on my worst enemy.

Sorry to have wasted your time and mine.

Sean



Our thoughts are with you Sean...

I recently got stabbed... That was scary and I am still trying to get over it, but Sean, you are a brave guy...

Take Care

Rhy
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(rhyknow @ Jun 7 2006, 07:44 PM) [snapback]1222094[/snapback]

Our thoughts are with you Sean...

I recently got stabbed... That was scary and I am still trying to get over it, but Sean, you are a brave guy...

Take Care

Rhy

Sean is indeed very brave....I am glad he is here with us yes.gif I hope he stays with us...he is a good guy and a smart one at that thumbsup.gif
rhyknow
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 7 2006, 10:55 PM) [snapback]1222230[/snapback]

Sean is indeed very brave....I am glad he is here with us yes.gif I hope he stays with us...he is a good guy and a smart one at that thumbsup.gif


indeedy... yes.gif a rare type these days...
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(rhyknow @ Jun 7 2006, 10:00 PM) [snapback]1222239[/snapback]

indeedy... yes.gif a rare type these days...

LOL lets not praise him too much...cuz his head just might get that big, I would be able to scratch it for him over here in Ireland w00t.gif
seanph
Thanks guys ... wub.gif wub.gif wub.gif

rhyknow ... My deepest sympathies. Get better. You have our support--always.

BM ... Me Irish lass ... wink2.gif wub.gif

You guys are the best! wub.gif

Sean
zandore
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 7 2006, 04:55 PM) [snapback]1222230[/snapback]

Sean is indeed very brave....I am glad he is here with us yes.gif I hope he stays with us...he is a good guy and a smart one at that thumbsup.gif
A spirit of a true warrior thumbsup.gif

user posted image
Bone_Collector
I hope you recover soon seanph. Take care.

Why wouldn't evolution work for most religious believers?
Because it makes sense laugh.gif
rhyknow
QUOTE(Bone_Collector @ Jun 9 2006, 11:14 AM) [snapback]1224552[/snapback]

I hope you recover soon seanph. Take care.

Why wouldn't evolution work for most religious believers?
Because it makes sense laugh.gif



Because, according to evolution, the world is a lot older than it is in the Bible... Plus evolution states that we evolved from apes, and according to the bible we didn't evolve, God made us... there are a few people who beleive in God and beleive that God created evolution though, so I get along with them more than creationists yes.gif
googlybear
Another thing in the Bible that a lot of people overlook is the passage that goes ...each day is as a thousand years. How are we as humans to understand "God's time". The creation story may have taken billions of years which is incomprehensible to most people. So why not give us the condensed version which happened in seven days?
D.vandyke

Of course evolution works! Look at africa!
We all originated from africa. Did we indeed? You tell me.
No actually don't tell me.. let me think about it.

Ok I thought about it and to tell you the truth! the god's honest truth, I've no idea!




ivytheplant
QUOTE(rhyknow @ Jun 9 2006, 03:59 AM) [snapback]1224570[/snapback]

Because, according to evolution, the world is a lot older than it is in the Bible... Plus evolution states that we evolved from apes, and according to the bible we didn't evolve, God made us... there are a few people who beleive in God and beleive that God created evolution though, so I get along with them more than creationists yes.gif


Don't forget there are civilizations older than creationism's age of the earth.
rhyknow
QUOTE(ivytheplant @ Jun 9 2006, 07:07 PM) [snapback]1224899[/snapback]

Don't forget there are civilizations older than creationism's age of the earth.


Yep and Dinosaurs... however some christians counter this argument by saying "God put fossils here to test our faith!" I think God put these guys here to test my faith...
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(rhyknow @ Jun 9 2006, 06:19 PM) [snapback]1224907[/snapback]

Yep and Dinosaurs... however some christians counter this argument by saying "God put fossils here to test our faith!" I think God put these guys here to test my faith...

Do they think that?? OMNG LOL rofl.gif
rhyknow
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 10 2006, 01:54 AM) [snapback]1225366[/snapback]

Do they think that?? OMNG LOL rofl.gif



You betcha!! More fundamentalist christians than others... Fundis beleive that the world is 12 000 years old... Because they added up the ages of all the people descended from Adam and Eve... Roughly 12 000 years old... How scientific! I can't argue with that little... equation w00t.gif

And also, I love watching the Pope bounce around in his little Pope mobile... Behind 3 foot of plexiglass... That shows faith in action. You can tell he's God's Spokesman because only God's spokesman would need that much protection...
ivytheplant
QUOTE(rhyknow @ Jun 9 2006, 06:03 PM) [snapback]1225374[/snapback]

You betcha!! More fundamentalist christians than others... Fundis beleive that the world is 12 000 years old... Because they added up the ages of all the people descended from Adam and Eve... Roughly 12 000 years old... How scientific! I can't argue with that little... equation w00t.gif


Wow, it's gotten a lot older since I last looked. Last time I was in Sunday school (albeit 10 years ago) it was 6,000 years old.

Maybe they decided that those civilizations that are obviously older than 6,000 years and have been proven beyond a doubt to be at least older than they said the earth is, meant they should revise their thinking a bit.

12,000 years down, 4,599,988,000 to go. grin2.gif
Paranoid Android
QUOTE(googlybear @ Jun 9 2006, 11:07 PM) [snapback]1224675[/snapback]

Another thing in the Bible that a lot of people overlook is the passage that goes ...each day is as a thousand years. How are we as humans to understand "God's time". The creation story may have taken billions of years which is incomprehensible to most people. So why not give us the condensed version which happened in seven days?
And even if it is literally a period between the sun rising and setting, there are multiple occassions in the Bible where God stops this. The sun freezes in the sky and does not move, even goes backwards in one instnace if I remember right. If God really did create in one day, who's to say he didn't take millions of years, but just stopped the clock, so to speak.

I'm not saying that's what I believe, I'm just offering a possible alternative for the creationists.

Regards, PA
ivytheplant
That's what I always argued for. I mean, God is a GOD. Omnipotent. To think that s/he/it would be held to a lousy 24 hour cycle is absurd.

If I had even a fraction of God's power, I know I'd make sure the day lasted a week so I could at least get chores done.
Boltwave
I happen to know a verse where dinosaurs are listed in the bible, yes indeed it is true.
ivytheplant
QUOTE(Boltwave @ Jun 9 2006, 10:27 PM) [snapback]1225650[/snapback]

I happen to know a verse where dinosaurs are listed in the bible, yes indeed it is true.


True that it's in the bible or true that dinosaurs *coughsnicker* lived among humans?
boorite
QUOTE(Boltwave @ Jun 10 2006, 04:27 AM) [snapback]1225650[/snapback]

I happen to know a verse where dinosaurs are listed in the bible, yes indeed it is true.


Yes, it's in Crichton's Epistle to Hollywood.
Boltwave
QUOTE(ivytheplant @ Jun 9 2006, 11:38 PM) [snapback]1225662[/snapback]

True that it's in the bible or true that dinosaurs *coughsnicker* lived among humans?


Both.

If the bible talks about leviathan than walked on land, with "scale like armor" we can only assume they were talking about the dinosaurs.

Isn't it a bit ironic that's listed to begin with?
boorite
QUOTE(Boltwave @ Jun 10 2006, 05:20 AM) [snapback]1225714[/snapback]

Both.

If the bible talks about leviathan than walked on land, with "scale like armor" we can only assume they were talking about the dinosaurs.


Wrong. The Bible flatly contradicts any assumption that Leviathan is some kind of terrestrial dinosaur. It's mentioned 5 times in the OT, always in the ocean, sometimes breathing fire. We can only assume this is anything but a terrestrial dinosaur.

Interpretations of "Leviathan" include sea serpent, dragon, whale, Nile crocodile, "monstrous fish," and generic big monster. We cannot assume anything whatsoever about a terrestrial dinosaur.
ivytheplant
Stories from other cultures report great beasts similar to dinosaurs. However, current theory is they saw the fossilized remains of dinosaurs and incorporated them into the stories. The stories of the Thunderbird is thought to have arisen from fossilized pterodactlys that were found in the area the story originated. The story of the griffin is attributed to Triceratops. Ammonites were named because they were attributed to the descendents of Ammon, who had ram's horns on his head (which ammonites resemble).

Dinosaur remains are often found distorted and on occasion, mixed with other dinosaur remains. In the 1800's Iguanodon was reconstructed completely wrong. Then there's the whole Apatosaurus shenanigans. The one in our museum here had the wrong head for the longest time because it was found in the same area as the rest of the bones, so it was stuck on the neck with no thought. More recently, Allosaurus has been reconstructed with a broken neck and back (it has since been corrected).

So you can see how even though we had a decent understanding of animal physiology and had been studying dinosaurs specifically for two hundred years, we still had problems working out the animal's appearance. To a person in ancient times who had no knowledge of dinosaurs, they would reconstruct the animals the best they see fit.

Hence the griffon.

So the story of the Leviathan could be either something as simple as a whale or someone could have seen the remains of a dinosaur and created a story around it.
zandore
QUOTE(rhyknow @ Jun 9 2006, 08:03 PM) [snapback]1225374[/snapback]

And also, I love watching the Pope bounce around in his little Pope mobile... Behind 3 foot of plexiglass... That shows faith in action. You can tell he's God's Spokesman because only God's spokesman would need that much protection...

That reminds me of lighting rods on church steeples......lack of faith laugh.gif
zandore
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Jun 9 2006, 10:57 PM) [snapback]1225569[/snapback]

And even if it is literally a period between the sun rising and setting, there are multiple occassions in the Bible where God stops this. The sun freezes in the sky and does not move, even goes backwards in one instnace if I remember right.

The sun or the Earth?

The circumference of the Earth at the equator is 25,000 miles. The Earth rotates in about 24 hours. Therefore, if you were to hang above the surface of the Earth at the equator without moving, you would see 25,000 miles pass by in 24 hours, at a speed of 25000/24 or just over 1000 miles per hour.

Going from 1,000 MPH to zero......I hope he has good brakes. laugh.gif

It would have to be the Earth unless you think the sun revolves around the Earth still rolleyes.gif
Paranoid Android
w...w...whatever! Does it really matter for the purposes of that theory? Or are you just trying to argue again?
zandore
What theory.... the ID theory wacko.gif
Paranoid Android
You quoted my post - And even if it is literally a period between the sun rising and setting, there are multiple occassions in the Bible where God stops this. The sun freezes in the sky and does not move, even goes backwards in one instnace if I remember right. - whether the sun stopped or the earth stopped is irrelevant. So I said "w...w...whatever".
Imaginary Friend
user posted image And now for a bit of De-evolution....





It's interesting how threads that aren't going anywhere, seem to be getting the lock of late.
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