sadistic jellyfish of doom
Jun 4 2007, 10:17 PM
QUOTE(DigitalDreamer @ Apr 28 2007, 07:51 AM) [snapback]1650109[/snapback]
Frog that dosnt matter t-rex would kill them both,Im sick of people looking down at the most ferocious dinosaur that ever lived.Show some respect tot he dinosaur that could kill anything.
I'm tired of people saying Rex was a vicious predator. It was a carrion-eating scavenger. It's not even classed as a carnosaur anymore. Uh, nevermind. I did a bit of reaserch, I was wrong. And for the record, Allosaurus, Charcarodontosaurus, Giganotosaurus, and Spinosaurus all own it.
DigitalDreamer
Jun 4 2007, 10:48 PM
Ah your funny,Go become a stand up comidian and tell funny jokes like thatone cause it sure as hell made me lauph.I want proof that t-rex was 100% scavenger,Even if that 100% fake fact isnt true.Even if it was it could still pwn any thing.
frogfish
Jun 5 2007, 01:09 AM
QUOTE
I'm tired of people saying Rex was a vicious predator. It was a carrion-eating scavenger. It's not even classed as a carnosaur anymore. And for the record, Allosaurus, Charcarodontosaurus, Giganotosaurus, and Spinosaurus all own it.
I can't believe you listen to this Jack horner propoganda. T-Rex is still a Tyrannosaur.
DigitalDreamer
Jun 5 2007, 01:38 AM
You know what,If some day there is solid proof that t-rex was only a scavenger wich i highly doubt will ever happen.What will people try to say next?T-rex was a herbivore?I hate people who are so nitpicky about evry little thing that they try to make up facts and tell people they are true.
Blue_army
Jun 5 2007, 03:54 PM
Just because it has a larger jaw dosnt mean anything,If a croc had the bite force of a human would that do any good?Exactly it wouldnt which means bigger jaw dosnt mean anything,Oce again if you wnat to try to sound smart read the privious posts.As i said befor the arms of a spino would be useless in a fight so get over it,How could a t-rex be slow when it had to hunt saome times?The spino would be slower because all it has to do is shoot its head into the water,Ya that makes ense dosnt it a spino is fast.get real,T-rex isnt easilly injured if it faught most of its life.Generations of t-rex evolved tougher because the toughest males mated which means they wouldnt be injured easy,Especially by a spino.
Actulay if you had a tall person with long legs that would raced with a normal person, the taller person would win.
If you had a fight with a fat person you would lose. Because that person has weight beind the power.
You should look at the pictures between a spino and t-rex via size.
How old are you?
DigitalDreamer
Jun 5 2007, 04:57 PM
Oh ok so a 500 pound guy would win in a fight against a pro boxer?Besides if you knew anything wich i doubt spino was built lighter than t-rex wich means t-rex had a strong punch (Ram with head,ect) Because you say a "fat guy" would have power behind its punch wich means a spino fan boy just gave some more proof that t-rex would win in a fight.
Now after my statement,How old are YOU?
Blue_army
Jun 5 2007, 06:12 PM
Digital Dreamer:
you are dreaming lol
you only want t-rex because....its you fav dino right?
frogfish
Jun 5 2007, 07:00 PM
...how old are you guys?
Both T-rex and Spino were dangerous and powerful hunters. Spino had size, while T-rex had weight.
It would probably be like a powerful heavyweight vs. a fast mediumweight. A good fight!
DigitalDreamer
Jun 5 2007, 08:46 PM
How old is evryone but me?
eric you only want spino to win cause its your fav dino right?
I dont wnat t-rex to win,I know it would win.For once frog i agree,I think it would be a good match.
draconic chronicler
Jun 7 2007, 01:21 AM
QUOTE(DigitalDreamer @ Jun 5 2007, 03:46 PM) [snapback]1710571[/snapback]
How old is evryone but me?
eric you only want spino to win cause its your fav dino right?
I dont wnat t-rex to win,I know it would win.For once frog i agree,I think it would be a good match.
Its not a matter of favorites, it is a matter that the new Spino is a third larger than every other theropod based on the current fossils. Equally sized animals, yes it would be a close fight, but A THIRD BIGGER makes a lot of difference. Even though a spino the size of a Rex would be lighter, this biggest Spino would be heavier than any other Theropod as well. These are simple scientific facts that have nothing to do with fanboy preferences. Its like a heavyweight fighter versus a featherweight. The featherweight might win, but highly unlikey.
And that is why the scientists that helped with JP3 had the Spino win, it was supposed to be a much larger animal, even though it was not so apparent in the film. Grant called it a "superpredator" indicating it was a much larger animal than the Rex. But in real life, the two animals would probably not fight to the death, this almost never happens in nature betwen two closely matched predators.
Blue_army
Jun 7 2007, 04:47 PM
I agree you on that one.
and btw they just found out that t-rex didnt stand somehting or i duno?
DigitalDreamer
Jun 7 2007, 06:29 PM
Draconic,Hidden under your boxing example you basically said "the spino would win most of the time,And the t-rex would win some of the time" wich i expected you to say.but "feather weights" shouldnt be put down,Im sure any feather weight could take down any heavy weight.In boxing that is.
Hitchhiker
Jun 7 2007, 07:50 PM
No matter who would win in a one-on-one death match, I wouldn't want to be face-face-face with either one.
And besides, who can tell for certain how much more or less powerful one species was over the other? I hear so many conflicting theories about whether or not certain Theropods were scavengers or hunters that I dont know what to believe. I can accept the T. rex scavenger theory - even powerfully built animals such as the Kodiak bears are mainly omnivores with an emphasis on vegitation and carrion (T. rex:Bears, apples:oranges, I know).
I will also give the Spino supporters this: the bias towards T. rex is there. He's been almost everyone's childhood favorite since it was discovered because the simple fact remains: T. rex is bad ass.
Hitchhiker
Jun 7 2007, 08:17 PM
QUOTE(draconic chronicler @ May 12 2007, 06:42 AM) [snapback]1671495[/snapback]
You evidentally don't.
Believe it or not, real, famous, PHd carrying paleontologists were advisors in Jurassic Park, and they recognized Spino as both the largest, AND most formidable dino, and this was even before the new, possibly 60 foot super spino was found. Do you really think you know more about this than real paleontologists?
I really doubt it.
You are misquoting me. Yes a 60 foot spino is probably heavier than a forty foot Rex, but this is because it is a full third bigger. But it is still a more gracile built and therefor much faster animal, just as if there were a 60 foot velociraptor. The sail is not a hindrance, if anything, it helped this dino warm up and cool off quicker than ANY other large carnosaur, another great advantage.
We also know Spino hunted other large prey, not just fish. Their teeth have been found imbedded in other dinosaur bones. And if you knew anything about reptiles, you would know that young crocodiles eat mostly fish, but large crocs mostly go for big mammalian prey when it is available, often outsizing them like water buffalo. It was probably the same thing with Spino.
And here is another important thing that has been ignored in this discussion. Unlike the Rex, which was the only big Carnosaur of its time and place, Spinos seemed to live side by side, for millions of years with another awesome predator, possibly also larger than T Rex, the Charcodonosaurus. This suggestd Spino could hold its own against more conventional theropods of large size, and unlike Rex, may have sometimes actually fought with other species of carnosaur.
And although I do not agree, there are PHd carrying, famous paleotologists who know far more about dinos than you, that have made a reasonable argument that T Rex is nothing but a scavenger, whereas Spinos snatched pterodactlys out of the sky if we are to believe the fossil evidence, and catching fish requires a predators skill, unlike simply sniffing out and scarfing down rotten meet. No wonder it didn't need a predator's forearms, it may very well have been just an "overgrown garbage disposal on hind legs".
Indeed! There is evidence enough to show that spinosaur was a superb predator, as opposed to the possible hunter/scavenger routine of the T. rex. But just because there is a fossil of a spino with a half-digested pterosaur in its belly doesn't mean it was plucked out of the sky. Most large pterosaurs were slow and ungainly on land - easy pickings for any large predator.
sadistic jellyfish of doom
Jun 9 2007, 02:25 AM
Yeah, Frogfish, I did some research, and you're right. I've been a bit off on my knowledge lately. But that dosen't change Allosaurus being cooler.
Cormorant
Jul 1 2007, 06:42 AM
FRankly, I think your all off your rockers. Your too biases. They could bothe ither win or lose depending on the situation. Factors like age, experiance, weather habitat. It would all affect the fight. And I say again from earlier posts: you all need to calm down. We're not in a bloody boxing ring trying to knock each other out.
And just as a pointer, lets not give any personal info out. I mean this as age, name, where you live, etc. And dont ask for it either.
Now back to the matter at hand. The first thing I want you all to do is bring three articles supporting your side of the story. We will read them and then together way the outcome in a nonbiased manner. I will act as the fully non biased overviewer for as far as I know I am the only one who teaches college level. I do say its not paleontology but throuh biology Ive learned a thing or two as the people on other sites can agree to. Now if anyone has any discrepencies state them now and get on with the articles.
KillerOrca
Jul 6 2007, 01:13 PM
It's my FIRST post here, I like this place but I find this debate interesting so I'll participate
Here is a dino comparison chart, It's not the truth, as it shows a 50 foot spino. Spino was actually 60-70 feet

Let's see what happens when i scale up the spino to fit its real size

Another example
Here is the T rex & spino comparison of JP3. And again here the spino is 45 feet

Let's see what happens when i scale up the spino to fit its real size

It's GREAT to be here
BTW i have a forum called
Combative Animals
KillerOrca
Jul 6 2007, 08:48 PM
No-replies?
DigitalDreamer
Jul 7 2007, 01:10 AM
QUOTE(KillerOrca @ Jul 6 2007, 09:13 AM)

It's my FIRST post here, I like this place but I find this debate interesting so I'll participate
Here is a dino comparison chart, It's not the truth, as it shows a 50 foot spino. Spino was actually 60-70 feet

Let's see what happens when i scale up the spino to fit its real size

Another example
Here is the T rex & spino comparison of JP3. And again here the spino is 45 feet

Let's see what happens when i scale up the spino to fit its real size

It's GREAT to be here
BTW i have a forum called
Combative AnimalsWelcome to um orca,But since when do pictures prove anything when theres nothing to back the pictures up?I could post a pic of a rex 3 times larger than a spino and that would be acurate?Unless theres a bite behind a bark than all thats left is hot air.ANd by the way there was no dinosaur in jp3 called spinosaurus,All i saw was a movie monster that continuously changed size and was able to brake thrue a small plane with just its snout.The real spinosaurus isnt that long and just because wiki sas it is dosnt mean its true becase people can edit wiki and change it to what ever they want it to say.
sadistic jellyfish of doom
Jul 7 2007, 02:37 AM
QUOTE(DigitalDreamer @ Jul 6 2007, 06:10 PM)

Welcome to um orca,But since when do pictures prove anything when theres nothing to back the pictures up?
Nothing except fossilized remains.
DigitalDreamer
Jul 7 2007, 03:31 AM
QUOTE(sadistic jellyfish of doom @ Jul 6 2007, 10:37 PM)

Nothing except fossilized remains.

Remains wich have no def facts about them
KillerOrca
Jul 7 2007, 11:57 AM
QUOTE(DigitalDreamer @ Jul 7 2007, 06:31 AM)

Remains wich have no def facts about them

The spino was ACTUALLY 60 ft -70ft & weighted 9tons-12 tons. With that size, I dont think the T Rex can survive. Not even a chance
KillerOrca
Jul 7 2007, 12:00 PM
QUOTE(sadistic jellyfish of doom @ Jul 7 2007, 05:37 AM)

Nothing except fossilized remains.

Yes, there are fossils to prove that. Some say that the spino specimens that were discovered & distroyed were actually 60 ft in length
KillerOrca
Jul 7 2007, 12:09 PM
QUOTE
But since when do pictures prove anything when theres nothing to back the pictures up?I could post a pic of a rex 3 times larger than a spino and that would be acurate?
Yes, there are fossils
QUOTE
I could post a pic of a rex 3 times larger than a spino and that would be acurate?
Nope, it wont be acurate coz the spino was WAY larger than t Rex
QUOTE
ANd by the way there was no dinosaur in jp3 called spinosaurus,All i saw was a movie monster that continuously changed size and was able to brake thrue a small plane with just its snout.
Yes,I agree ,it's not accurate coz the spino that was used there was 45 ft .The actual size was 60 -70 ft
QUOTE
The real spinosaurus isnt that long
The real spino was even bigger than the one in the movie. In JP3 they used a 45 ft one because they werent sure that the spino was actually 60 ft.
QUOTE
because wiki sas it is dosnt mean its true becase people can edit wiki and change it to what ever they want it to say
Oh, yes, it's true. I LIVE in Egypt & many people say that the specimens found were 57 ft -72 ft.
draconic chronicler
Jul 7 2007, 12:21 PM
QUOTE(KillerOrca @ Jul 7 2007, 06:57 AM)

The spino was ACTUALLY 60 ft -70ft & weighted 9tons-12 tons. With that size, I dont think the T Rex can survive. Not even a chance
Great work Orca, and welcome to UM. You won't get an argument from me, as you'll know if you read all the posts. But your illustrations prove how absurd the notion of such a fight even being close. I'll be the first to say however that it is silly to assume such animals would automatically fight to the death. But when the size disparity is so great as we now know it was, it is very possible that other "large" theropods could simply be regarded as "prey" to the enormous adult Spino. It is probably a good thing for T-Rex that Spino DID live in another place and time, or it may have regularly been on the Spino's menu! The lumbering rex with almost useless front claws might have been considered easier prey to a huge spino than a triceratops, if the huge spinos were somehow transported to late Cretaceous Montana.
I believe the reason Spino got so large was that its environment was UNIQUE in that it lived in the same place and time as another large theropod, the Charcodonosaurus, something T REx never had to contend with, although it is clear they did fight among themselves as the fossil evidence shows.
So in what is now modern North Africa, we see a Theropod "Arms Race" between these two monsters, and it seems the Spino won. The reason these two species could co=exist may be becasue Spino may have favored a semi aquatic environment as it jaws indicate, and Charco may have wisely kept to the more arid areas.
I'll have to check out your site now.
KillerOrca
Jul 7 2007, 12:31 PM
Thanks. I agree with everything you say.
There are lots & lots of dinos to be discovered that can possibly be larger than the spino
BTW, you have to join to see all the forums. I hide most of them from guests
eyesaurSy
Jul 8 2007, 03:42 AM
It's unfortunate that so many of you are so certain of the Spino's superiority. If you are trying to express your opinion, and even if you believe there is solid proof behind your statement, you need to say "I think _____," otherwise you're going to come off as a pompous self-absorbed jackass. At least admit there there is a slight possibility of your opponent being correct.
It comes down to the fact that size isn't everything. Look at us. We have the largest EQ of any vertebrate on the planet, and yet we cannot see what is right beneath our noses. The people in this community should know that better than anyone. Many of you people believe that UFOs, Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster exist, and yet there are still people who are not willing to admit that there is even anything close to things like that out there. We are so immeasurably ignorant of the world around us, and we are even ignorant of that simple fact itself.
Spinosaurus and T-Rex died out sixty-five million years ago. They were separated by oceans, deserts, and forests, and even by the vast expanses of geologic time itself. We cannot possible know what these two creatures were like.
I'd like to inform everyone participating in this discussion that Jack Horner, paleontological adviser for the makers of Jurassic Park ///, has gained enormous infamy from making the Spinosaurus kill T-Rex. The animal in the movie is over-exaggerated, inaccurately strong and a failure in terms of monetary gain and fandom. Even if Spinosaurus was larger, most scientists think it was more lightly built than Tyrannosaurus, and its skull is considerably lighter and more fragile than that of T-Rex. The Rex's arms are so small because they weren't necessary for it to fill its ecological niche. The Spinosaurus's arms are larger and have claws because, like a bear's claws, it needs them to fish. T-Rex's jaws are designed to bite, crush, and hold on tight. Spino's are designed to snap up fish and other prey.
The evidence is there, folks. You just need to open your eyes and be willing to see it.
sadistic jellyfish of doom
Jul 8 2007, 05:37 AM
QUOTE(KillerOrca @ Jul 7 2007, 05:00 AM)

Yes, there are fossils to prove that. Some say that the spino specimens that were discovered & distroyed were actually 60 ft in length
Sad thing they bombed the museum that was holding them during WWII, though. Another casualty of war.
draconic chronicler
Jul 8 2007, 02:44 PM
QUOTE(eyesaurSy @ Jul 7 2007, 10:42 PM)

It's unfortunate that so many of you are so certain of the Spino's superiority. If you are trying to express your opinion, and even if you believe there is solid proof behind your statement, you need to say "I think _____," otherwise you're going to come off as a pompous self-absorbed jackass. At least admit there there is a slight possibility of your opponent being correct.
It comes down to the fact that size isn't everything. Look at us. We have the largest EQ of any vertebrate on the planet, and yet we cannot see what is right beneath our noses. The people in this community should know that better than anyone. Many of you people believe that UFOs, Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster exist, and yet there are still people who are not willing to admit that there is even anything close to things like that out there. We are so immeasurably ignorant of the world around us, and we are even ignorant of that simple fact itself.
Spinosaurus and T-Rex died out sixty-five million years ago. They were separated by oceans, deserts, and forests, and even by the vast expanses of geologic time itself. We cannot possible know what these two creatures were like.
I'd like to inform everyone participating in this discussion that Jack Horner, paleontological adviser for the makers of Jurassic Park ///, has gained enormous infamy from making the Spinosaurus kill T-Rex. The animal in the movie is over-exaggerated, inaccurately strong and a failure in terms of monetary gain and fandom. Even if Spinosaurus was larger, most scientists think it was more lightly built than Tyrannosaurus, and its skull is considerably lighter and more fragile than that of T-Rex. The Rex's arms are so small because they weren't necessary for it to fill its ecological niche. The Spinosaurus's arms are larger and have claws because, like a bear's claws, it needs them to fish. T-Rex's jaws are designed to bite, crush, and hold on tight. Spino's are designed to snap up fish and other prey.
The evidence is there, folks. You just need to open your eyes and be willing to see it.
I have stated many times, that it probably incorrect to imagine different species of theropods automatically fighting to the death like in a B Grade monster movie. But the vast disparity in size of Spino to all the other theorpods now suggests that if these species did coexist, T-Rex might be regarded as nothing more than an "easy meal" to an almost 70 foot Spinosaur as scientists now estimate its size based on the enormous new skull found by the University of Milan team.
The only "Infamy" Horner gained from his depiction of Spino in JP3 was from "adolescent T-Rex Fanboys", who know nothing about real animals. In fact, though I do not agree with a lot of things Horner says, this time he was prophetically "spot on" about Spino, as we now know from the recent discovery of the gigantic new Spinosaur that dwarfs every other theropod. At the same length of say 40 feet, then yes, T-Rex would probably be heavier. But when you compare a typical T-Rex to the "new" 60-70 foot Spino, you'd have to be on drugs to think there would be any contest. It would outweight the T-Rex by many tons, have a much larger and more powerful bite, huge forearms with vicious claws and being a far more gracile built animal, even at the larger size, it would probably be faster and more maneuverable than the T-Rex, just as if you could enlarge a velociraptor to sixty feet long. Unless something new is discovered, Spino is now the ultimate theropod, and the undisputed largest land dwelling carnivore that ever walked the earth. Deal with it.
KillerOrca
Jul 8 2007, 04:17 PM
Exactly, if the spino was a 60-70ft MONSTER, the T Rex stands NO chance neither will the Giganoto.
If the skull was THAT HUGE ,an estimated of 8 ft (even larger than the deinosuchus skull), then the spino would be ENORMOUS.
Also in JP3 the neck snap, believe it or not, is legit. If you took a pair of pliers and got a solid pinch grip on your finger you would find that your finger can not move. A slight turn of the pliers, even 30-40 degrees, would easily snap the joints of the finger. That’s what happened with Rex. If you look at it, the Spino turned his head in towards his body, twisting the neck about 30 degrees or so. With the neck not being able to move an inch in the plier-like jaws the snap was easily achieved.
draconic chronicler
Jul 8 2007, 04:37 PM
QUOTE(KillerOrca @ Jul 8 2007, 11:17 AM)

Exactly, if the spino was a 60-70ft MONSTER, the T Rex stands NO chance neither will the Giganoto.
If the skull was THAT HUGE ,an estimated of 8 ft (even larger than the deinosuchus skull), then the spino would be ENORMOUS.
Also in JP3 the neck snap, believe it or not, is legit. If you took a pair of pliers and got a solid pinch grip on your finger you would find that your finger can not move. A slight turn of the pliers, even 30-40 degrees, would easily snap the joints of the finger. That’s what happened with Rex. If you look at it, the Spino turned his head in towards his body, twisting the neck about 30 degrees or so. With the neck not being able to move an inch in the plier-like jaws the snap was easily achieved.
I hadn't studied the JP3 battle to the degree you have, but that sounds correct, and I didn't have problems with the otcome. Let's face it. A great deal of money went into making that scene, and a large staff of experts put in their recommendations. It is amusing how some kids become unglued just becasue they "favorite dino" is beaten in a movie fight scene. I did think it was silly though that the same Spino spent the rest of the movie chasing a handful of people that would hardly make a light snack, when he had a vertitable mountain of meat with the dead T-Rex. But maybe he thought the first couple of humans he ate were so tasty that he became hopelessly addicted to them!
DigitalDreamer
Jul 8 2007, 04:59 PM
I'd like to inform everyone participating in this discussion that Jack Horner, paleontological adviser for the makers of Jurassic Park ///, has gained enormous infamy from making the Spinosaurus kill T-Rex. The animal in the movie is over-exaggerated, inaccurately strong and a failure in terms of monetary gain and fandom. Even if Spinosaurus was larger, most scientists think it was more lightly built than Tyrannosaurus, and its skull is considerably lighter and more fragile than that of T-Rex. The Rex's arms are so small because they weren't necessary for it to fill its ecological niche. The Spinosaurus's arms are larger and have claws because, like a bear's claws, it needs them to fish. T-Rex's jaws are designed to bite, crush, and hold on tight. Spino's are designed to snap up fish and other prey.
The evidence is there, folks. You just need to open your eyes and be willing to see it.
[/quote]
I doubt that will happen sy,These peoples eyes and ears are glued shut and keep repeating the same thing over and over but in a different way.In all of my days of seeing Spino fanboys i have never seen it this bad,You all have actully convinced yourselves that the spino would win when Sy clearly posted the reason as to why it would lose.So i think you all cant read because if you did you would have shut your mouth and opened your eyes to the facts about its jaw,It dosnt matter what dam size it was if quote "Even if Spinosaurus was larger, most scientists think it was more lightly built than Tyrannosaurus, and its skull is considerably lighter and more fragile than that of T-Rex".So it dosnt matter that thats been said right?You people cant handle the truth thats right in front of you,So you turn around and deny it.I have never seen a fanbase this obsessed with anything in my entire life.And for the love of god stop saying its arms were usefull in a fight,"The Spinosaurus's arms are larger and have claws because, like a bear's claws, it needs them to fish. T-Rex's jaws are designed to bite, crush, and hold on tight. Spino's are designed to snap up fish and other prey." ok so what lie will you guys make up now about the spino haveing a strog bite?Or that its arms could be some help in a fight?Id like to see you make up another lie if you actully bother to read this.
draconic chronicler
Jul 8 2007, 05:35 PM
QUOTE(DigitalDreamer @ Jul 8 2007, 11:59 AM)

I'd like to inform everyone participating in this discussion that Jack Horner, paleontological adviser for the makers of Jurassic Park ///, has gained enormous infamy from making the Spinosaurus kill T-Rex. The animal in the movie is over-exaggerated, inaccurately strong and a failure in terms of monetary gain and fandom. Even if Spinosaurus was larger, most scientists think it was more lightly built than Tyrannosaurus, and its skull is considerably lighter and more fragile than that of T-Rex. The Rex's arms are so small because they weren't necessary for it to fill its ecological niche. The Spinosaurus's arms are larger and have claws because, like a bear's claws, it needs them to fish. T-Rex's jaws are designed to bite, crush, and hold on tight. Spino's are designed to snap up fish and other prey.
The evidence is there, folks. You just need to open your eyes and be willing to see it.
I doubt that will happen sy,These peoples eyes and ears are glued shut and keep repeating the same thing over and over but in a different way.In all of my days of seeing Spino fanboys i have never seen it this bad,You all have actully convinced yourselves that the spino would win when Sy clearly posted the reason as to why it would lose.So i think you all cant read because if you did you would have shut your mouth and opened your eyes to the facts about its jaw,It dosnt matter what dam size it was if quote "Even if Spinosaurus was larger, most scientists think it was more lightly built than Tyrannosaurus, and its skull is considerably lighter and more fragile than that of T-Rex".So it dosnt matter that thats been said right?You people cant handle the truth thats right in front of you,So you turn around and deny it.I have never seen a fanbase this obsessed with anything in my entire life.And for the love of god stop saying its arms were usefull in a fight,"The Spinosaurus's arms are larger and have claws because, like a bear's claws, it needs them to fish. T-Rex's jaws are designed to bite, crush, and hold on tight. Spino's are designed to snap up fish and other prey." ok so what lie will you guys make up now about the spino haveing a strog bite?Or that its arms could be some help in a fight?Id like to see you make up another lie if you actully bother to read this.
No it doesn't matter. Nothing he said matters because the Adult Spino is so much bigger than T Rex that it would not even be a "fight". It would just be a really big dinosaur catching and eating a much smaller dinosaur. That's it, end of story. Look at the pictures KO has so kindly provided, and then watch what happens when a Timber Wolf is hungry enough to eat a fox. That is about EXACTLY the same size disparity between the new Spino and the largest T-Rex. Oh wait, you're a fox fanboy too, so you think it could kill the wolf, right?
KillerOrca
Jul 8 2007, 06:03 PM
QUOTE(draconic chronicler @ Jul 8 2007, 08:35 PM)

Look at the pictures KO has so kindly provided, and then watch what happens when a Timber Wolf is hungry enough to eat a fox. That is about EXACTLY the same size disparity between the new Spino and the largest T-Rex. Oh wait, you're a fox fanboy too, so you think it could kill the wolf, right?
Yeah, and that pic is for a 60 ft spino not 70ft. Hmmmmmmmm....................Also the largest spino might be around 80ft !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
eyesaurSy
Jul 8 2007, 06:09 PM
See, you're still not saying "I think ______" when you state something, so you're still coming off as a pompous, self-absorbed jackass. And you look even more like a jackass by teasing and insulting Dreamer.
All right, raise your hand if you're Christian. Raise your hand if you're not. All right, we've got a number of Christians on this site. We all know how hard Christians fight for their beliefs, beliefs that some of us consider absolute garbage. They will keep on coming with their evidence from the Bible and their signs of God, regardless of the evidence we try to show them. Imagine this thread is like that. Regardless of all the evidence you throw at me or Dreamer, we still hold strong because of our faith in Tyrannosaurus Rex. Any Christian who's had their faith attacked should understand that. We are immovable.
I have yet to find a single source on the internet that says that Spinosaurus grew any larger than fifty-five feet, let alone a reliable source. Anyone who has a RELIABLE source, please, by all means, show it to me.
In the end, it comes down to this: WE DON'T KNOW. We can't be sure of anything. Until we are able to send some sort of probe back in time, we won't know how these animals behaved. Even then, we would NEVER, absolutely NEVER find a Spinosaurus and TRex fighting. This is all hypothetical. It would never have happened. We should REALLY be talking about whether or not Charcharodontosaurus could win in a fight with Spino.
KillerOrca
Jul 8 2007, 06:11 PM
ALSO who said the long arms couldnt help T Rex in a fight??????????????????????????????
OFCOURSE IT WILL. If the T Rex fell, lol IT WILL FIND VERY HARD TIME STANDING UP AGAIN!
Spino will stand up quite easily
KillerOrca
Jul 8 2007, 06:22 PM
QUOTE(eyesaurSy @ Jul 8 2007, 09:09 PM)

I have yet to find a single source on the internet that says that Spinosaurus grew any larger than fifty-five feet, let alone a reliable source. Anyone who has a RELIABLE source, please, by all means, show it to me.
ERM.....................here
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com/Dino...saurus_Fossils/But the weight is inaccurate
draconic chronicler
Jul 8 2007, 07:47 PM
QUOTE(eyesaurSy @ Jul 8 2007, 01:09 PM)

All right, raise your hand if you're Christian. Raise your hand if you're not. All right, we've got a number of Christians on this site. We all know how hard Christians fight for their beliefs, beliefs that some of us consider absolute garbage. They will keep on coming with their evidence from the Bible and their signs of God, regardless of the evidence we try to show them. Imagine this thread is like that. Regardless of all the evidence you throw at me or Dreamer, we still hold strong because of our faith in Tyrannosaurus Rex. Any Christian who's had their faith attacked should understand that. We are immovable.
Your "faith in t-rex"? Like he is going to forgive your sins or something?
I'm still not sure what this "loyalty" to an extinct dinosaur is all about.
A lot of people/websites are still not aware of the new "Super Spino", but it is for real. Only the skull and few other bones were found, but there are enough other spinosaurides now to accurately estimate the probable size, esitmated to be be up to 70 feet. And these are real scientists making these estimates not dino movie fanboys.
And computer models reveal T-Rex is a slow, chunky dino with virtually useless arms. Spino is built like a giant velociraptor, so even being over a third larger it is probably more agile, like the biggest bengal tiger versus a mediumish American blackbear, with all of his front claws removed.
If the sail is a temperature regulator as some believe, this is another big advantage over virtually every other Theropod. It could heat up or cool down faster than any other theropod.
As KO has said, it is silly to ignore the fact T Rex has almost useless arms, versus Spino with probably the largest and most powerful arms of all Theropods.
o
Cormorant
Jul 9 2007, 03:29 AM
Why do you (draconis chronicler) put so much faith into the giant "not new anymore" spinosaur discovered? How do you know that it was'nt just a really large one. Maybe it was one in a millon born. Maybe old spiney only averaged 40-50 ft. Theres not been enough skeletons dug up to get a 100% average size for spino.
Stop bringing up the freaking arms!!! Spinosaurus probably used them to fish which made them have some sort of muscular structure, but the claws were probably kept alongside the body in a fight just like when komodos are fighting. this prevents any injury to them and spiny was probably at least that smart to figure it out that he should only use his jaws.
And for Gods sakes the bloody sail could not heat and cool him on a whim!!! Sure it would take less time but it would still take a couple of hours to heat and cool the whole body. How your saying is this::
"Oh, the Spino is always growing to be 70ft long with a massive sail that will cool the entire 15+ ton body in mere minutes! He would grapple and play with little ole rexy for minutes before snapping it in half with its superbly structured long and narrow jaws."
Now I hope everbody sees how rediculously this imbecile sounds. Because to me he sounds like a real person who has no time in the real world and is actually trying to outclass the other people who actually know what theyre talking about.
draconic chronicler
Jul 9 2007, 11:41 AM
QUOTE(Cormorant @ Jul 8 2007, 10:29 PM)

Why do you (draconis chronicler) put so much faith into the giant "not new anymore" spinosaur discovered? How do you know that it was'nt just a really large one. Maybe it was one in a millon born. Maybe old spiney only averaged 40-50 ft. Theres not been enough skeletons dug up to get a 100% average size for spino.
Stop bringing up the freaking arms!!! Spinosaurus probably used them to fish which made them have some sort of muscular structure, but the claws were probably kept alongside the body in a fight just like when komodos are fighting. this prevents any injury to them and spiny was probably at least that smart to figure it out that he should only use his jaws.
And for Gods sakes the bloody sail could not heat and cool him on a whim!!! Sure it would take less time but it would still take a couple of hours to heat and cool the whole body. How your saying is this::
"Oh, the Spino is always growing to be 70ft long with a massive sail that will cool the entire 15+ ton body in mere minutes! He would grapple and play with little ole rexy for minutes before snapping it in half with its superbly structured long and narrow jaws."
Now I hope everbody sees how rediculously this imbecile sounds. Because to me he sounds like a real person who has no time in the real world and is actually trying to outclass the other people who actually know what theyre talking about.
Obviously you haven't studied the scientific literature very much. Only two spinosaurus Aegyptus have been found, though large quantities of their teeth, because they are the strongest thing in a body. Stromer's 1915 Spino destroyed in Berlin MAY have been the longest Theropod until the new Spino skull was found, but because it was destroyed in WWII, many people dismissed it. Horner recommended it as a bigger deadlier Theropod than T Rex becasue he is a real paleontologist, and knew Stromer's Spino was real even if it had been destroyed. And the important thing aobut this fossil is that it was already the biggest theropod in the world and it was only a JUVENILE!!! as we know by unfused portions of the skeleton, just as anthropoligists can determine the skeletons of Juvenile humans.
So lets see. The previous biggest theropod in the world was just a teenager of what we now know is unquestionably the biggest theropod. So what is really the liklihood that the ONLY adult fossil remains of a Spino would be some freakish giant? Virtually none. Even the Juvenile Sprino was bigger than all the rest.
Are you beginning to see the picture now?
Cormorant
Jul 10 2007, 12:32 AM
The only picture I'm seeing is half the things you just said are repeted from what I said. I said:
QUOTE
Theres not been enough skeletons dug up to get a 100% average size for spino.
And then you said:
QUOTE
Obviously you haven't studied the scientific literature very much. Only two spinosaurus Aegyptus have been found, though large quantities of their teeth.
You can insome cases figure out the size of an animal by the size of its teeth, such as in the case of Charcharodon Megalodon. But the Spinosaurus does not have a constant tooth size due to it probably being a fish eater as part of it's life.
The fossil destroyed in Berlin was a destroyed piece of history and I mourne it, but as we only have Stromers drawings of it and notes from it we cannot be certain about much.
I'm not saying Horner is not a real paleontologist. I have a contact who is a friend of his and I'm trying to set up a dig expedition with him. I don't hate him as your displaying I do, I just dissagree with him on several issues. I would prefer to go on a dig with Robbert Bakker but the one I had this summer was unfortunately canceled because I had issues with 2 sister barquentines of mine.
Now I apologize if I'm being a little too mean for your liking because your really starting to act too flustered for your own good. Now you can stop letting emotion enter into your argument because for anyone reading whose not participating, your really turning them off. Your anger is blinding you. Not about your Spino is better argument but to your overall attack on the Rex fans.
And let me just go ahead and tell you and the other jackasses who are acting as you are:
I AM NOT A REX FAN. I've never been a terrestrial carnivore fan. I go for Liopleurodon as the biggest and longest carnivore that could eat both your Spiny and Rexy for lunch. But aside from that fact is that I look at the whole picture while you and your friends look at the nitpicky details::
The arms are big and clawed, unlike Rex's tiny arms- while swiping at Rex, Rex can get ahold of it and as your friend Killer Orca from Egypt said a slight twitch of about 30 degrees would snap the arm.
Spinosaurus can get up if it fell down- well ,my friend,: if it fell down its weight would crack the sail. And with the sail cracked and with so many blood vessels probably in it; it would most likely bleed to death. So even if it killed Rexy the Spino would probably die in about and hour, from blood loss.
eyesaurSy
Jul 10 2007, 08:34 PM
QUOTE(draconic chronicler @ Jul 9 2007, 04:41 AM)

And the important thing aobut this fossil is that it was already the biggest theropod in the world and it was only a JUVENILE!!!
We have no way to prove that Spinosaurus was the biggest theropod. If you said the biggest theropod
known than I would agree with you. However, until either we find a larger theropod skeleton or we go back in time and look for one, we will never know. 90% of species are never fossilized, so we won't know who was the biggest dude until we build a time machine. Who knows, fifty years from now there will probably be people arguing over if Megatyrannus Titanis could kick Spino's ass.
QUOTE
Your "faith in t-rex"? Like he is going to forgive your sins or something?
Like some cultist who died two thousand years ago is going to forgive your sins, either?
QUOTE
I'm still not sure what this "loyalty" to an extinct dinosaur is all about.
Then you really need to get a grip on reality cuz I'm seeing an even more desperate form of it in you and your arguments.
draconic chronicler
Jul 13 2007, 06:06 PM
QUOTE(eyesaurSy @ Jul 10 2007, 03:34 PM)

We have no way to prove that Spinosaurus was the biggest theropod. If you said the biggest theropod known than I would agree with you. However, until either we find a larger theropod skeleton or we go back in time and look for one, we will never know. 90% of species are never fossilized, so we won't know who was the biggest dude until we build a time machine. Who knows, fifty years from now there will probably be people arguing over if Megatyrannus Titanis could kick Spino's ass.
Like some cultist who died two thousand years ago is going to forgive your sins, either?
Then you really need to get a grip on reality cuz I'm seeing an even more desperate form of it in you and your arguments.
Desperate? What a stupid thing to say. Paleontology now recognizes Spinosaurus as the largest KNOWN Theropod, and it is SO MUCH LARGER, like almost twice as big, that this T-Rex fan boy stuff is just plain silly. I am going to predict that 45 feet is going to be about the maximum of any typical theropods like the Tyranasaurides and Allosaurides. Spino is so much bigger becasue it occupies a different Ecological niche. It may in fact, be the ONLY animal that EVER displaced the crocodilians as the top order semi-aquatic predator. And that is why it grew so huge.
speshall mareens
Jul 13 2007, 07:09 PM
yea,the allourids and tyrannisourids all filled a niche that had some compition, thoug smaller, they werent the only ones preying on anyone food item other them small saurapods (correct me if i am wrong). but yet even the measurement for largest therapod is not been established, is it heaviest or longest, because that argument brings giganotasaurus into the fray, and , yes, we dont know a whole lot about spinosaurus so sayin it oversurpased the crocodiles and adn the largest semi aquatic carnivore, well, are you forgetin sarchocuchas!? that obviously is competition as it was MASSIVE, so sayin so much about spino and its niche would be jumping to cunclusions, you say so much about spino since only two were found, yet then you go and describe its its niche nad sayin its the largest semi aquatic carnivore but only 2 have been discoverd. however, the idea of tyrannisaurus being the largest MUST be ditched, as more then once has a therepod been discovered larger then tyranosaurus.
Cormorant
Jul 13 2007, 08:15 PM
Nobodys really saying Rex was the largest, But I get your point. What we should truly be arguing over is if Spinosaurus could beat Sarcosuchus or the large marine reptiles in a fight. It would be like a Saltwater crocodile vs a bull shark in shallow water or a tiger/white tip in open water.
Draconic Chronicler:
Science also accepted the Giant squid (architeuthis) to be the largest cephalopod. But then the Colossal squid was found. You can't say that Spino was 100%the largest Theropod.
Again, after every single post you still do not get that size only takes you so far.
I'll say examples of brute force:
Hyena vs Lion
Bull/Tiger/White tip shark vs Saltwater Crocodile
Leopard vs Black Caiman
Giant Squid vs Sperm Whale
Spider Wasp vs Tarantula
King Fisher vs Amazon Tiger Fish
Anaconda vs Black Caiman
These all are fights between carnivores who each occupy a different niche in the environment. In EVERY single one of them the winner is never certain as they both can either win or lose depending on the different factors around them and about them themselves.
So now if you want to keep on arguing your point GET A NEW BASIS. Stop saying the same thing over and over again.
Just pointing out that when you post please look over your post. The least you can do is spell the words right. Screw punctuation and capitalization, but at least use spell check if your too lazy to do it yourself while your writing.
speshall mareens
Jul 14 2007, 01:52 AM
thank you for supporting my piont, and yes, i know i cant type worth crap. there is almost ALWAYS competion and rivalry, and spinosaurus is in no way an exeption, and when not, its when the ecosystem is isolated,a dnthere arent many species, and cretaceous sahara was a moist lush jungle/swampland.
sadistic jellyfish of doom
Jul 22 2007, 09:38 PM
Alright... Just to say something... I never said that a Rex and a Spinosaurus would actually fight... But all this "Lightly built" bullcrap is annoying. A Spinosaurus was thirty feeet longer than a rex, ten feet taller(Not counting the sail) and weighed in at a good 14 tons, 6 more than the T-Rex. Giganotosaurus was ALSO larger and more heavily built than Tyrannosaurus, and would have won. T-Rex was damn large, but does anyone realize something? The original "point" of this thread was for DigitalDreamer to attemt to prove that T-Rex was bigger than Spinosaurus. That is obviously untrue, and I'm going to report this thread, as it is pointless and has evolved into a flame war.
Magikman
Jul 22 2007, 10:24 PM
As stated, the discussion is quickly degenerating into unproductive bickering and insults. If the participants cannot argue their points without inflaming the issue with belittling comments, the thread will be closed and the instigators dealt with appropriately. Thank you for your co-operation.
MM
KillerOrca
Jul 25 2007, 12:41 AM
OK, we're back on topic.
The T Rex CANT claim the title back. It belonged to Giga then the spino. Spino is the king for now
DigitalDreamer
Jul 25 2007, 04:05 AM
QUOTE(KillerOrca @ Jul 24 2007, 08:41 PM)

OK, we're back on topic.
The T Rex CANT claim the title back. It belonged to Giga then the spino. Spino is the king for now
Last time i checked t-rex's name still means tyrant lizard KING and what the hell do you accomplish by saying that?No matter how many times you do say it it will never come true.
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