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Althalus
user posted imageA tension exists between witchcraft and our society's dominant religion, Christianity. The problem: Wicca may welcome Christianity but Christianity rejects Wicca. Three Christians _ two clergy and a retired history professor _ offer a spectrum of views on the subject of witchcraft. The Rev. Robert Wickizer, rector of St. Philip's Episcopal Church, takes a relatively generous view, with the caution that Wicca is a religion he knows little about. "I'm always concerned when we're quick to dismiss Wiccanism ... without understanding it," he said, pointing out that this led to a rash of witches being burned at the stake in the 16th and 17th centuries. "As long as a believer's practice is not causing harm, I'd like to get to know that person," he said, rather than become "hysterical." "Unless I see harm being done, I leave the judgment to God," he added. "Christ clearly says we are not to judge. ... My criteria are much looser than some of my clergy colleagues in other denominations."Wiccans attended the Episcopal Divinity School in Cambridge, Mass., with him, and would come to chapel, but not take communion, he said. "They were good and decent human beings," he said.

Christianity is not wholly separate from Wicca in that elements of Christian practice emanated from pagan roots, Wickizer said. Lighting incense to Thor for protection is comparable to wearing a St. Christopher's medal for protection, he said. Easter is "based on a pagan myth," he said. He agrees, however, that the Bible prohibits witchcraft.

user posted image View: Full Article | Source: Laurel leader
Vox
Well, I just had a question, why doesn't Wicca establish itself as a Religious Institution? It would hold more sway in the world today than it ever could just being a ramshackle organisation, whats more how does one learn to become a wiccan? Who teaches the way? and what about the magic you supposedly wield? Is there any scientific fact behind this?
Engulf
Can anyone explain to me about this Wicca??Sorry but i really don't know and would love to know about it.Read a book before (fictional) about this Wiccan and somehow it has some connections with...witchcraft?Sorry if i've said anything wrong but pls explain to me about this.... original.gif
Cufflink
In which part of the States is the tension in? I know that there are some parts of the US where faith is taken very seriously (and I'm not criticising that).

Over here in the UK we don't take witchcraft seriously enough for anyone to be offended. And anyway, the Church of England are a fairly forgiving bunch most of the time.

And Engulf, Wicca is just a posey name for witchcraft (the nicer side of it).
sarkypi
QUOTE
In which part of the States is the tension in?


Hmmm... That's kinda of a toughie.
Here in Chicago, in a lot of ways we are diverse, but I do meet ignorance.
I was raised Catholic, and we were not told to be tolerant of people of Wicca faith.

There is a case called the west memphis 3.
Supposedly this is kind of a modern day witch hunt. 3 little boys were stabbed, hogged tied and murdered in West Memphis. 2 of the boys died from drowning one from castration. Three men are on death row, one of them openly admits he is of wiccan faith. They were put their with circumstantial evidence. The evidence was one of the guys is wiccan and dresses goth. They raided his closet for the trial, and brought his black clothes in for evidence. Being that he was young, he was curious about over religions, so he had books on other religions. They brought in his books on wicca, and books on steiner. Also one of the guys was part cherokee, so he has long black hair, and they said he dyed it (he doesn't), and they used that against him.

Here is a link:WM3
Seraphina
And to think....I thought my faith in the US justice system was shakey to begin with dontgetit.gif

What the heck happened to freedom of religion, or freedom of expression? Or does that only apply if you excerise your expression by falling in with the mainstream christian faith in the US?

Hypocracy is the word of the day children...now, everyone stand up, face the flag, and swear allegiance to god like you're supposed to...and yes...yes I know there's an athiest in California who's in hiding right now along with his child because of death threats after he said it was unconstituational to force her to swear allegiance to god in school.

But that's okay, because god loves us all...provided, of course, you love him back. Just remember kids, the most important of the ten commandments: "Thou shalt not kill...except..." conclude sentance to exlude any minority group, small religion, athiests, or such like...after all, with the exception of budhists and quakers (who, to my knowledge, have never bothered anyone) ever religion seems to involve the idea that everyone who isn't part of their religion will, and should, burn in hell whistling2.gif

Hardly seems surprising that steps are being taken to stamp them out, or black mark them as quickly as can be, eh?
sarkypi
QUOTE (Seraphina @ Oct 5 2003, 01:22 AM)
And to think....I thought my faith in the US justice system was shakey to begin with dontgetit.gif

What the heck happened to freedom of religion, or freedom of expression? Or does that only apply if you excerise your expression by falling in with the mainstream christian faith in the US?


This was a very famous and sad case when it first came out. Only years later, did I find out why these men were convicted. Circumstantial evidence against these men is just outrageous, but in a lot of ways I'm not surprised. People like to stay insdie the box
I was telling a friend about Waldorff school. My friend keeps calling it a cult. blink.gif He's a fairly intelligent person, and he helps many people all the time, but then he shocks me a says something like that.

For any poster reading this, Waldorf school is a private school, and they are all over the world. The school is based on Steiner philosophy. (Steiner believed in reincarnation) A teacher stays with the same class until they graduate. The kids do not have homework, and they create their own textbooks. They also learn to read at a later age, sometimes as late as the 5th grade. Because of this he calls it a cult.
Waldorff
Engulf
Alright,thank you Cuffy thumbsup.gif .I heard that this witchcraft is divided by holy and black magick,anyway do all this of this magick really work??

sorry i know i'm out of the line of discussion here,just wanted to know more original.gif
Althalus
Most, if not all Wiccans try to live by the Wiccan Rede (see my signature), this says that in other ways that you should never harm or hurt anyone, An it harm none do as ye will.

3of5
Hello,
I'm new so Greetings to all.
I did research on Wicca a couple of years ago. The Internet has more info on this than anyone could read. The info is easy to find. There are hundreds of Wiccan sites.

I found in the research that this faith is serious but mostly light hearted - not the "Go to Hell if you don't believe and behave" stuff of the Christian faith. It is a feel good belief and, just because of that, I came to the conclusion that it should have a greater place in our society.

We need more feel good stuff, especially now, and as far as other relegions go, I think they all need to lighten up - some of them a lot.
Vox
Where does this Wiccan Reede come from? Who wrote it?
Starlyte
QUOTE
Where does this Wiccan Reede come from? Who wrote it?


Here is a link for you, Vox: The Wiccan Rede: A Historical Journey

Hope that helps!

This is one variation of the Rede, the wording changes slightly from version to version.

Bide the Wiccan laws you must, in perfect love and perfect trust.
Live and let live, fairly take and fairly give.
Cast the circle thrice about, to keep the unwelcome spirits out.
To bind the spell every time, let the spell be spake in rhyme.
Soft of eye and light of touch, speak little and listen much.
Deosil go by the waxing moon, chanting out the Wiccan rune.
Widdershins go by the waning moon, chanting out the baleful tune.
When the Lady's moon is new, kiss your hand to Her times two.
When the moon rides at Her peak, then the heart's desire seek.
Heed the North wind's mightly gale, lock the door and trim the sail.
When the wind comes from the South, love will kiss you on the mouth.
When the wind blows from the West, departed spirits will have no rest.
When the wind blows from the East, expect the new and set the feast.
Nine woods in the cauldron go, burn them quick and burn them slow.
Elder be the Lady's tree, burn it not or cursed you'll be.
When the wheel begins to turn, let the Beltane fire burn.
When the wheel has turned to Yule, light the log, the Horned One rules.
Heed you flower, bush and tree, by the Lady, blessed be.
Where the rippling waters go, cast a stone, the truth to know.
When you have and hold a need, harken not to other's greed.
With a fool no seasons spend, or be counted as his friend.
Merry meet and merry part, bright the cheeks and warm the heart.
Mind the Threefold Law you should, three times bad and three times good.
When misfortune is enow, wear the blue star on your brow.
True in love you must ever be, lest their love be false to thee.
These words the Wiccan Rede fulfll: An it harm none, do what you will.

original.gif
Vox
Ta very much Starlyte, you beautiful creature you. rolleyes.gif
TheOracle
Vox asked :
QUOTE
why doesn't Wicca establish itself as a Religious Institution? It would hold more sway in the world today than it ever could just being a ramshackle organisation


No offence Vox but I think this is the worst thing that could happen to the Wiccan religion. Wiccan's aren't about jamming their beliefs down everyone else's throats.

Vox asked :
QUOTE
and what about the magic you supposedly wield? Is there any scientific fact behind this?


No, I don't believe there is, but... Is there any scientific fact behind the "miracles" that other religions profess to be true ?.
Vox
Touché Oracle wink2.gif
Starlyte
QUOTE
Ta very much Starlyte, you beautiful creature you.


Glad I could help! wink2.gif
Empath!
Jesus died for somebody sins but not mine - patti smith devil.gif www.wicca.com www.witchvox.com two sites with great information about wicca and witchcraft ( TWO DIFFERENT THINGS ) disgust.gif i'm so tired of this confusion .. Gerald Gardner is the founder of wicca ... he wrote a novel " high magic's aid " and then he wrote two books " witchcraft today " and " the meaning of witchcraft " wicca has influences from ceremonial magic (Gardner and Aleister Crowley were close friends ) from mansonory , form hinduism and from traditional withcraft ( he claims he was initiated by Dorothy clutterbuck) and this is why many wiccans call themselfs witches. In the 80's new age writers changed wicca specially scott cunningham who wrote ( a guide to the solitary witch, living wicca among others ) this new wicca has almost nothing to do with the system reinvented by gardner, was more connected to ecletic paganism ! Today you'll find enormous differences between tradicionalists and ecletic wiccans ... to know more about wiccan's beliefs check the sites... by the way this is just my point of view...
unplughaven
Former Wiccan Here

Hello all. I’m new to the board. I’ve been browsing the board for a few days and when I came across this article, I just had to comment on a few things.

I came across Wicca in 1988. I was 15 years old at the time and was very much searching the world via books for something whereby I could flesh out my identity as separate from parents, home, school, society, etc. Between 1988 and 1991 there was NOTHING you could tell me about Wicca that I didn’t already know (or so I thought). I was a self-professed witch in high-school. Of course in the ‘80s that was synonymous with “Satanist.” And I’ll admit, I had read some Aliester Crowley and Anton Levey just to get an understanding of where these diabolical cult leaders came from. But all in all, I delved deeply into the feminine spirit of the religion. Though I am no longer Wiccan, I will always treasure my time in that practice because it taught me the importance of being a woman.

Being raised in an urban, Christian home, I always had a sense of guilt – duh – about just about everything I did as a child. As a teenage girl developing her sexuality, I REALLY had problems and I think Wicca helped me to understand my body, my sexuality, my importance as a female on this planet. Goddess worship attracted me greatly and that’s when I noticed many similarities between Wicca and Christianity. I began to question my parents about the Virgin Mary (and her ties to the Ephesians’ goddess Diana), Easter (Ostara), All Saints Day (Halloween) and Christmas (Yule Tide). By time I was 18, I had developed a strong sense of church angst, but I felt that even though I had “found flaws” with the religion – practices, superstitions, etc. – I knew that at least the foundation, the very core of Christ’s teachings, had to be pure.

I had concluded that Christianity, as well as many other world religions, had fallen prey to corrupt leaders such as King James who had an obvious agenda against women and non-Christians. In researching the Bible and exterior Hebrew texts, I had come to revere Lilith, Adam’s first wife, as a heroine, not a demon. I found verses that actually alluded to God being feminine in the Old Testament, but I found verses in the New Testament that really degraded women and put them at what I call an “Islamic level” (interpret as you will). But then I had to sit back and start looking at the Bible not from a religious standpoint but from an anthropological standpoint. It was at that moment that a lot of things were beginning to make sense. Concurrently, it was also making my blood boil to know that people of today are still trying to impose laws that made sense back in 100 A.D. but really have no place in the 21st century. The ideals of woman being second to man, that God views his “second” creation as inferior and something to be held as property are still prevalent in the Church. In fact, there is a Catholic conference being held (either this week or next week) in Toledo, OH where they will be focusing on the use of altar girls. The article highlighting this conference leaned toward “well, to avert the attention on priests and altar boys, we’ll begin bringing girls to pulpit, but let us remind them that they ARE females and they have a “special” place in the Church.”

In other words, women should be seen, not heard.

I’m not even Christian, but I would stand shoulder to shoulder with a woman desiring to become an ordained priest in two seconds. This is more than an issue of equal rights; it’s an issue of faith in oneself as well as the Divine. It is an issue of bridging humankind with its maker, if you believe such a thing. Women have just as much potential as their counterparts for “holiness”, “sanctity” or “divinity” even, yet religions world wide continue to undermine this truth every chance they get. This is why I think I clung to Wicca for so long. I was hungering for something that acknowledged me, the female, as equal.

Now I’m not slamming Christianity or its brothers Judaism and Islam because there are Buddhist, Hindu and perhaps even Wiccan teachings in which women are inferior. Needless to say, I follow a school of teaching were all life is equal, where all of humanity is to be treasured and celebrated. And though I still get heated when I hear about non-Christians wrongfully persecuted or state/local laws being Christian-based (i.e. anti-gay marriage laws, “morality” laws, b.s. and more b.s.), I have to just take a deep breath and pray that one day humanity will rise above this 2000 year divide and realize that every human being, no matter his class, culture, belief, sex or sexual preference, has a right to peace and happiness.

No one…no one can deny the impact that culture and social standards have on a religion. I think as advanced human beings in the 21st century, we need to reevaluate ideas and concepts that have roots in ancient traditions (superstitions, myths, ceremonies and whatnot) and give ourselves a religious over-haul by objectively asking ourselves, “now, is that God’s word or man’s?” After all, money and power set aside, religion (imo) is one of the top causes of war. It has been since the beginning of the civilized world. Isn’t about time we said, “enough’s enough?”

And if I haven’t already damaged my credibility in my first post here today, I will do so now by asking, “Can’t we all just get along?”

Final note: The Etymology of “religion” gets me every time.

Merriam Webster Dictionary

Main Entry: re•li•gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
Date: 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
- re•li•gion•less adjective



Haven
Althalus
There is an update of sorts, here:

link
unplughaven
From the link posted above:

>>The Rev. Larry Perry, pastor of Tuckasegee Baptist Church, addressed Sylva board members for the second time in as many months.

"I'm not here to say that anyone does not have the right to speak or worship," Perry said. "That is not what I intended to do.

"I was asked by a lot of people to circulate a petition, so that members of our county could let their names be known in opposition," he said. "I'm very much opposed to the pagan religion because of my faith."

Perry indicated he would continue his stance against the group.

"I won't oppose (the pagan group) violently, because I don't support violence, but I will fight with all the resources I have to keep Christianity strong in Jackson County," Perry said.<<

It's the word "fight" that bothers me.
Why the NEED to fight? To save souls? To keep the church's cashflow going? To be able to sleep at night whilst devils are afoot? What? What? What?

What ever happened to free will? If the whole damn town converts to Paganism, let them. If Chrisitans be right and in the end Jackson goes up in flames, that's on the heads of those converted. If the Pagans are right and the Christians miss out on one hell of an educational experience, that's on the heads of who didn't convert.

(However, I'm the only one right in this and I think everyone will wind up going to their respective corners of the universe when the time comes. rainfro.gif )

My summation: If you have faith enough in what you're doing and you live by example and proof of your faith, others will follow. If they be swayed by another, pray and hope they find their truth wherever their new path leads them.


Haven
Empath!
po.gif po.gif po.gif i can't stand hipocrisy .. the same old story - my God is better than yours.. you know what - rev. larry perry - go to hell sasmokin.gif sasmokin.gif sasmokin.gif i fell so much better now!!!!!! icon_mrgreen.gif icon_mrgreen.gif icon_mrgreen.gif
Kira
*sigh* and here we go back to the same old thing... name calling and slander.

Witches have been around since the dawn of time in one shape or another: Shamans, Medecine Men, Herbalists, Alchemists, or the the lady that lives on her own with a load of cats.....
My point is this, we have been around before Christianity. In fact a lot of the Holy days and Holidays fall around Pagan Sabbats, and festivals. Many of the Old Gods have been turned in to something into what they are not eg: Pan has been turned in to the Devil... dontgetit.gif
We will be here after the Christian faith has tried to do it's worst to wipe us off the face of the earth, but yet we will harm none. Why because as Pagan's and Wiccans we believe that every one has a right to choose what they believe in. huh.gif
Thor77
Most christians today don`t really understand what it means to be a christian. Being a christian means that you have to believe what the whole bible says and all its teachings especially the new testament and most of all the last book.

I was a christian till i was 19 years old, today I`m 26. Generally I believe that the bible should be a highly controversial book. Honestly it really shoud be put the HISTORY shelf, never to be used as a basis for religion. There is way too many far fetchd stories in that book. Like I said earlier if christians really read some of the stories in there with a sensable and logical mind they would probably begin to question the bible and their faith.
We don`t know if Jesus of Nazareth illitterate or not but I dont think that he sat around composing books, it was supposidly his followers and its not certain that they wrote things exactlly the way things happend or the way Jesus of Nazareth said things. I dont think that jesus`s diciples where all sitting around everytime with their pens and paper writing these things down. I mean how can you even trust the translations of the bible today or the interpretations of it. That book the bible is an ancient book. Those people in the bible lived way back then and how can we really trust a book this old? how do we know that its true even if its a little bit true then it shouldnt be taken so seriously. christianity is a pretty hard core religion and really its just a PRODUCT! I mean if i was to point a gun at a christians face, he wont just stand their smiling waiting to go to heaven, he would be scared shitless becouse NOBODY IS 100% CERTIAN ABOUT IT, ITS NOT REALLY BULLET PROOF. Do you get my drift? Are they really ready to die for it?!

Look at "greek mythology" and "nordic mythology" they had their own religions and beliefs and stories but when the church came along they push their religion and making all else "mythology" .
The bible really should be in the mythology section. It is mythology and there is nothing people can really compare and argue about it. The things that jesus said wasn`t really very "news flashy" like people have never heard of things like that. I mean its common knowledge that for example that we should be nice to our neighbors and not to hit or it will bounce back to you. ha ha ha i mean get real!!!
You see jesus was only bringing his own philosofy to the world but the christians are only successfull thanks to all of their wars and forcing people to believe. I mean talk about being imperialistic, over dominent and brainwashing the world thru very sly technics like thru music, traditions and songs etc.

Jesus did not walk on the water litterally its logically not possible. What happend was that he was walking on an extremelly shallow part of the beach which went a way out probably a couple hundred meters or so, there is nothing strange about that. I guess his disciples didnt bring there glasses that day and they sure didnt ask jesus if he really floated on the water or how he did it. I mean every one walks on water every time you are on the beach LOL.

People werent born to automaticlly become christian and live the bible and its teachings. We are free people with our own minds and ways of living according to what makes us most comfortable, right?

I suggest seriously that in the future when the world or the UN can finally bring up the long suppressed subject on "RELIGION" that they will put an age limit to all religions so that children will have the right to choose wich walk of life they would like to take. What do you think of that? Pretty good huh? And that it will be punishable for parents or anyone who will try to get there underaged children or students etc to believe in THEIR religion. Because if they do, then they are already making pretty big decisions for their life on how they should live and think and react- IT SHOULD BE A CRIME JUST LIKE RAPE. They should be accused of trying to tamper with the individuals RIGHT TO CHOOSE.

I could go on and on on alot more things and in even greater detail but i have to go right now but if anyone is intressted to talk about things or argue about some of the things i have just talked about just e-mail me at thor_palmqvist@hotmail.com

Thanks and goodbye

With Nordic Greetings

Thor.
Thor77
QUOTATIONS ON THE SUBJECT OF-WICCA (this even applies to Norse Belief)

" We are not evil. We don`t harm or seduce people. We are not dangerous. We are ordinary people like you. We have families, jobs, hopes, and dreams.
We are not a cult. This religion is not a joke. We are not what you think we are from looking at T.V We are real. We laugh, we cry. We are serious. We have a sense of humor. You don`t have to be afraid of us. We don`t want to convert you. And please don`t try to convert us. Just give us the same right we give you-- to live in peace. We are much more similar to you than you think."
" Margot Adler"
If you take the Christian Bible and put it out in the wind and the rain, soon the paper on which the the words are printed on will disintegrate and the words will be gone. Our bible IS the wind and the rain. "Herbalist Carol McGrath as told to her by a Native-American woman.
thefirstman
As far as i know there has always been a lot of discrimination towards the Wiccan religions,not just by other religions but by normal people too.It was seen as a sort of devil worship,and opposing against Christ and in the burning days,all Witches were considered evil and harmful to people.Therefore the sudden obsession with burning witches and also drowning them.Iv never believed that Witches are evil,and i suppose maybe it is possible that there are those who use their gift to harm others,but i see no rational reason for the burning and drowning of the witches in the early days,if i ever meet the people who did it,ill give them, a piece of my dead mind. tongue.gif
crosswarrior
OOOOOHHH Boy....Lets see....
I would have to say that it is my personal opinion that magic is not safe. The reason being is that it works. And if someone want to use magic for harm what is too stop them? From where do Wiccans get there power? Where is the line between White and Black magic? huh.gif

Of coarse in the Christian and Jewish religions there are Blessings, and cursings and miricles; and many would say that there is no difference between them and magic. I do not believe so. When i bless someone or curse them it is for God to receive the glory in their prosperity; or the glory in their downfall, and a curse is only to be the last resort against an evil person. When a person performs magic who gets the glory?
bathory
Their Pagan Moon Gods?
Just because your religion dictates something doesn't mean its right:)
crosswarrior
Now. Now. Let's try to be a little objective about this shall we? Lest this degenerate into a "my god is better than your god debate;"
My reservations on this subject are born of having known many people who started in the White side but quickly went into the black,and it ruined them. Any wonder why I should be less than enthusiastic about Wicca? Maybe it is not overtly wrong; but I feel it is far too dangerous a doorway.
doomgirl
It is my understanding that the rede was written by a French monk name François Rabelais (c1500's) and was used in his book "Garguantua & Pantagruel"



QUOTE
Where does this Wiccan Reede come from? Who wrote it?



Kira
crosswarrior Posted on Dec 14 2003, 02:32 PM
QUOTE
And if someone want to use magic for harm what is too stop them? From where do Wiccans get there power? Where is the line between White and Black magic?


QUOTE
My reservations on this subject are born of having known many people who started in the White side but quickly went into the black,and it ruined them.


Hmmmmm Magick is niether White or Black, it's a neutral force. It's how you choose to use it's power for good or bad.. I have seen people go bad, not just within the Pagan element, but also in all other types of faith. If you cannot control your own personal will, then that at the end of the day is down to you. Yes because of the power that you have be it religious, spiritual, or even political.. it is You and You alone who can pull yourself back from a major missuse of it.
So you although you have personal experience of people turning to the dark arts, it cannot be wholly attributed to the force they are using. Somewhere inside, there has to be that spark, to have brought it to life.
Xenojjin
woot . I only defend christianity when an atheist calls it Fubar . I dont try to shove it down people's throats .

I generally like to go by the rule " let he who has no sin , cast the first stone"

So if Witchraft is a sin , who am I to say anything ?







PsychicPenguin
Very wise there Xenojjin, like it thumbsup.gif
crosswarrior
I am not interested in trying to argue that witchcraft is a sin.; because it would do more harm than good in any discussion that went that way. What I want to know is who descides what is right or wrong. Lets just forget all religious equations for a minute and leave only logic. Where is the line? And if the line is crossed what can anybody do about it?
Xenojjin
without the aide of religion , tradition , or personall beliefs , Good and evil is Logically defined as what the majority defines it as . Subjective .
crosswarrior
Exactly and as seeing it is based merely on the majority it changes. But I almost refuse to believe that something like Wicca would not have an unmovable law if just only for safety.
babyforrest
Right and wrong are what you feel in your heart. For the normal nonpsychopathic/sociopathic member of society, right and wrong can usually be determined inside yourself with that angel and devil that sit on one's shoulder telling them what they should do. Freud called them the id and the superego. When you listen to the id, or devil then guilt usually kicks in. If you feel that witchcraft is not harmful to yourself or to others, than it is fine for you. Who am I to judge you? I don't. I have never rammed my religious beliefs onto anyone else, and I expect others to do the same for me. The only time I have expressed my opinions to anyone else, I have been asked to do so. I'm a Christian and Wiccans, you're alright with me. thumbsup.gif
bathory
QUOTE
Now. Now. Let's try to be a little objective about this shall we? Lest this degenerate into a "my god is better than your god debate;"


>.> This has nothing to do with god/s...
i was just trying to state that none of us are in a position to judge...
crosswarrior
ALL right I'm gonna come right out and say that I don't like Witches, Wicca, or Whatever; and the majority of my feelings are not based on what any pastor is telling me. I DON'T SEE IT AS SAFE. I see nothing that holds a person on the right side. I see no restaints. I don't want to get into a discussion about which god is right. Like I said previously I know a lot of people ruined by magic, and I want someone to give me some dead serious reasons of how they can guard that from happening. I WANT TO KNOW WHO, WHAT, OR HOW YOU DETERMINE WHAT IS GOOD OR EVIL MAGIC. Not this subjective junk, thats all great for the "What is God?" Forums; THIS is one of the subjects where the rubber mets the road, and you darn better be right or real people get HURT!!!!! You Wicca people say your not bad. FINE show me the proof!!!!
Or else if not then just come out and say it. Enough of this stupid beating around the bush, and name calling, and bashing. This is a serious subject; lets act like it. Shall we?
bathory
Need I point to the Inquisition and the Crusades, Septmeber 11 and the Bali Bombing. Religion is not exempt from 'evil', get off your self righteous high horse.

They don't have to justify anything to anyone.
Kira
click here bottom of the the page

I refer you to the answer I gave earlier in this thread...

crosswarrior, if you are openminded you will give people a chance other wise you are what you have accused others of doing
QUOTE
Enough of this stupid beating around the bush, and name calling, and bashing. This is a serious subject; lets act like it. Shall we?


Just my thoughts thank you.
moe eubleck
QUOTE (crosswarrior @ Dec 15 2003, 03:24 AM)
ALL right I'm gonna come right out and say that I don't like Witches, Wicca, or Whatever; and the majority of my feelings are...................

Before you formulate an opinion, I suggest you first educate yourself about wicca. Go out and read some books about it.
" To ride a sliver broomstick" by silver Ravenwolf would be a good place to start. Jesus had an open mind as well. You would do him justice by following his example. wink2.gif thumbsup.gif
crosswarrior
Thank-you for the information Celticwitch, this answered mostly all the questions that I was looking for. I am still intolerably uneasy with the whole matter, nor do I ever feel that any amount of discussion will make me budge from my stance in this issue. And as for what is right or wrong..... well I trust that most of us will find out that answer before the century has closed. For we are all mortal. dontgetit.gif
Fluffybunny
QUOTE (Xenojjin @ Dec 14 2003, 02:19 PM)
woot . I only defend christianity when an atheist calls it Fubar . I dont try to shove it down people's throats .

I generally like to go by the rule " let he who has no sin , cast the first stone"

So if Witchraft is a sin , who am I to say anything ?

That sounds good. I can't argue with you on this one.. tongue.gif
Kira
QUOTE
crosswarrior Posted on Dec 15 2003, 01:21 PM
  . I am still intolerably uneasy with the whole matter...........


Well all I can say is that I'm glad that you are honest in ur opinions, as you will appreciate that I'm glad that most people do not think that way any more.

QUOTE
And as for what is right or wrong..... well I trust that most of us will find out that answer before the century has closed. For we are all mortal. 


Yes we are, and whether it be Pagan, Christian, Islamic etc etc, the majority of people know the difference. Some however have and do use the ability to abuse power and trust, whatever background they come from. dontgetit.gif
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