I really didn't want to even weigh in on this one, but St Brendan sailed to the New World well before Columbus. The Templars were there 100 years before Columbus. The Vikes had several settlements in Newfoundland long before Columbus landed in the Bahamas. Where did Columbus get his charts and maps?

nothing it's just a fraud and it is dissmissed by chinese scholars.......

Gavin Menzies, an ex. RN Lt. Commander, wrote a book called "1421- TheYear The Chinese Discovered America'. Well, many contributors to this thread have already pointed out that humans have been in *the* Americas for quite a long time (as humans go.) Probably, given all the recent archaeological discoveries, about +30,000yrs BCE...
Certainly, the ancestors of native American peoples were way ahead of Vikings & Columbus. There is NO good evidence that the Chinese visited a la Menzies (and none, incidentally, that Olmecs were other than native Amerinds.)

O, just as a wee pointer: the study of ancient hominids is in flux but it *is* certain that AMHs (anatomically modern hominids=H.sapiens sapiens) *appear* to have started to appear (heh heh) about 150,000 years ago...there aint much evidence of us before this, folks

Phoenicians, Chinese, Egyptians, Vikings... all of em were here before Colombo.

What was it I read about Amerigo not being where the word America came from? Dang... think it was something from like scoobysnack posted or something... can't remember it. I liked that explination better than the Vespucci one though...

billion of people (ok im exagerating) have been there before Columbus....it would be brainless to belive the otherwise. But even if they find some evidence of a chinese of Celtic settlement there is no reason to rewrite the history.

Not really re-write, but maybe correct history? I mean, if the question "does columbo discover america" even has to be asked, someone's not doing their job right, no?

well I would add some chapters to history, but not rewrite it or even correct it.
Still it was Columbus who opened the "new world" to the great powers of that time, and after Columbus the colonitation of America began.
Before Columbus the new continent was (almust) unknow to the modern world.
So if the Celts or the Chinese settled there, it's irrilevant, because the knowledge of the american continent remained forgotten...uintil 1492.

I think he did.. mabey not.. we need more proof though..

What about the Irish, Scottish and welsh?

Ice Age Columbus


http://aolsearch.aol.co.uk/aol/redir?src=e...tion=WebResults

Coloumbus really didn't discover america..

Many people discovered america before colombus, vikings chinese etc. But i know that when colombus got there, via his muslim navigator, he saw people which were familiar to the moors in africa and had the same practices as them, meaning that muslims had settled there and intergrated with the native indians, who to seem to following the moors beliefs and traditions.

Colombus got america by accident... it s was the muslim navigator that took him to the americas.

Amerike discovered by a "christian"

On May 2, 1494, John Cabot sailed from Bristol with a crew of 18 men in a tiny ship called the Matthew. He made landfall on the coast of Canada on June 24, and returned home on August 6 of the same year. He claimed the new continent for his sponsor King Henry VII. It was not until his 3rd voyage that Columbus saw the South American coast on August 5, 1498.

In 1497, with the Royal Charter of the king to legalize his discovery, John Cabot sails again in the Matthew. He lands on the coast of Maine and then sails south as far as Florida mapping the coast of the New World. He names the New World AMERIKE after his Bristol financier... On his return voyage, he names an island after his barber (surgeon), and another island after a Burgundian friend.

Richard Amerike's family coat of arms is stars & stripes
Does columbus day need to be renamed Amerike day?

What do you mean by the term "discover"? Once we define this, we can make our assertions.

it is a shame Giovanni Caboto's account went lost...seriously

IMO if columbus day should be renamed, it should be Amerigo's day, it is the Vespucci guy who found out that the western India was a new and unkwon earth.

Actually, Amerigo Vesupucci sailed later than Columbus; however, he did detail the continent (not just islands as Columbus did) with maps. Not sure if the following is true, but it is a good twist that I've read somewhere:

A German mapmaker, using Amerigo's maps, left Amerigo's name on it. The land became, by accident, named "Amerigo" because people reading the map thought that "Amerigo" was the name of the land rather than of the originator of the map.

Yes, Vespucci sailed and explored the southcoast of america and other places, but he's is rememberd because he was to the to find out the this was in fact a whole new world, not the place were Marco Polo and he's unckles explored. And here is the name America, a feminine form of Americus Vespucius (if I remember right) the latin name he always used to sign many of he's letters.

Sort of right. The cartographer was Martin Waldseemuller* (there was a thread about the map not long ago, but that OP couldn't spell Waldseemuller's name properly). He deliberately labelled South America "America" -- short for Terra Australis America, "The Southern American Land" -- named for Vespucci, whom he thought was the discoverer of the Americas. He got flack for that and with the next edition of his book (the map was just an accompaniment to a book on cosmology), he changed it "Terra Incognita" ("an unknown land").

In any case, it wasn't for decades until the Northern America was referred to as "America"; America was South America.

--Jaylemurph

*And his partner Matthias Ringmann. Nobody ever mentions him.

If named after Amerigo Vespucci it would be called "Vespucci" during this period first names were only used for royalty.


From the Spanish Archives at Simancas.


[London, July 25, I498.]

I think Your Highnesses have already heard how the king of England has equipped a fleet to explore certain islands or mainland which he has been assured certain persons who set out last year from Bristol in search of the same have discovered. I have seen the map made by the discoverer, who is another Genoese like Columbus, who has been in Seville and at Lisbon seeking to obtain persons to aid him in this discovery. For the last seven years the people of Bristol have equipped two, three [and] four caravels to go in search of the island of Brazil and the Seven Cities according to the fancy of this Genoese. The king made up up his mind to send thither, because last year sure proof was brought they had found land. The fleet he prepared, which consisted of five was provisioned for a year. News has come that one of these, in which sailed another Friar Buil, has made land in Ireland in a great storm with the ship badly damaged. The Genoese kept on his way. Having seen the course they are steering and the length of the voyage, I find that what they have discovered or are in search of is possessed by Your Highness because it is at the cape which fell to Your Highness by the convention with Portugal. It is hoped they will be back by September. I will let Your Highnesses know about it. The king has spoken to me several times on the subject. He hopes the affair may turn out profitable. I believe the distance is not 400 leagues. I told him that I believed the islands were those found by Your Highnesses, and although I gave him the main reason, he would not have it. Since I believe Your Highnesses will already have notice of all this and also of the chart or mappemonde which this man has made, I do not send it now, although it is here, and so far as I can see exceedingly false, in order to make believe that these are not part of the said islands.
London, 25 July, I498.

The famous Juan de la Cosa map.

Only John Cabot had charted the North American coast up to that time. Here is the oldest map of the New World showing English flags all the way from Newfoundland to Florida. For 3 centuries it lay in the Secret Archives of the Vatican until it was carried to Paris by Napoleon Bonaparte in 1810.
John Day's letter to Columbus informing him of the Cabot voyages of discovery in order to help Columbus find the New World!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

John Day was Bristol merchant and spy for the Spanish Inquisition. He sent detailed descriptions of John Cabot's voyages to help him (Columbus) find the New World.!!

This letter was discovered in the Spanish National Archives in Simancas in 1955 by Dr. Hayward Keniston of the University of Michigan and Dr. Louis André Vignaras. It was from a certain John Day (a spy for the Spanish Inquisition) to Christopher Columbus and was sent in 1497.


Richard Ameryk (1440-1503) was a wealthy landowner and merchant who traded with Spain and Portugal. He was one of the chief financial backers of the fishing expeditions to Brassyle, beginning in the 1470s, and he provided financial assistance to Cabot's expedition to the New World on the Matthew. Amerike was first appointed as the King's Customs Officer in Bristol in 1486.

I think we've had this argument before. At this time, royalty had both first and last names (and often locative ones, too) and there was a great mass of commoners who didn't have last name (for several different reasons, chiefest of which rampant illiteracy).

I think it's likely that there were English fishermen in the Great Banks, and that Cabot may well have been here. And while there's a lot of circumstantial evidence for it, there's not the hard proof to definitively make the claim. In any case, we all know there were plenty of people here already, and several other groups from Europe (and maybe even China) who had made it to the New World before Columbus.

--Jaylemurph

thanks for the clearing that up.

Not by any credible archeologists. Signs point to Polynesians as the first residences............


Lapiche

Basque fisherman too. It is probably that the RH negative factor found only in the blood of Coastal Algonquians ( but not Algonquians of the interior) came from them. We were notorious for sharing our wives with guests.


Lapiche

That's interesting; I didn't know that.

Of course, it's more clearly proof of an Atlantean civilisation influencing the Coastal people. They probably taught them to farm and hunt, too.

--Jaylemurph

But it is named after him, it is a synonim....it is not something I'm making up, it is written in all hstory books.

how do you know that?

They are all wrong, if we discoount the first humans coming from Asia, then the earliest evidence after this is the Roman merchant ship off the coast of South America. There also seems to have been even arlier celtic visitations. Read "America B.C. by Barry Fell, I think)

yes but Columbus was the man who open the new continet to the world, and Vespucci found out that was a new world (perhaps it is arguable...but for now this is still part of the official history) no doub there were others who came first. But it was still thanks to Columbus america became a solid part of this world.

This argument reminds me of the error you get in Excel: "Circular Reference". Please define what you mean by "discover" and this "Circular Reference" error will go away.

do you realize the post you quoted the word 'discover' isnt there?

Yes, didn't mean to quote it...new to this forum stuff; however, post #1 on this thread by "bosnian" defintely has the word discover in it.

Besides, the word discover is inherent in the postings. See, I'm learned how to not quote some one when I make a general reply. Thanks.

Happy Leif Eriksson Day!! *Dingadingadurgen*

That's off Spongebob! lol

I was going to vote for your dog in November ........................



Lapiche