WELL WELL WELL

we have at least one government involved de-bunker in this thread to date i have read your entire seven page thread here
There are a few observations id like to make.first of all you are all buying into the surface arguments of contrails-vs.....Chemtrails
there is a glaring thechincality that many of you miss in arguing these theories

The fact is the "Chemtrails" are IN FACT contrails..............................but THEY ARE NOT NORMAL by any stretch of the word
Contrails are being used as the medium in which SEVERAL us GOVT funded technologies are DISPERSING heavy metals as Barium and Aluminum oxide as well as others and in SOME instances actually testing a new technology that basically destroys all micro organisms in the atmosphere
it kills anthrax spores and other biological matter...............................

some of you have touched the fact that these metals are EXTREMLY harmful to mammalian life we are absorbing Barium salts through our gastrointestinal tracts and it is slowly poisioning us ........some people who already have health issues are getting worse and actually in some cases DYING

they allow all of the perpetuatiuon of chemtrail stories and the killing off of the population BY THE NWO as a means to keep you from the truth and a means for your theories to immediatly be dismissed as Garbage science and they are RIGHT they are hiding what they are doing for several reasons
I have been activley researching and taking info from all across the country for almost 4 solid years now sometimes 8 hrs a day

i belong to another MB that this is also a hugely disputed issue at our site we have over 45 pages on this post and some 5,500 views as well as almost 1000 responses

one thing to take notice of here as wel as my other site is the SHEER NUMBER of hits and response the chemtrail threads actually get at the other site i belong to we have had no less than 7 different Govt agencies who seem to be watching the thread as it progress's we had a guy like frenat who came in and basically posted ALL OF THE SAME THINGS FRENAT DID turned out the guy was posting from a militray installation in california

Fenat has not had anyone really challenge his de-bunking to date and probably feels very smug in his ability to keep em guessing.....not anymore frenat as i welcome you to once again try what you all need to know is this is not a singular event nor is it just trails alone


and most of all DO NOT FALL INTO THE TRAP OF CHEMTRAILS ARE DIFFERENT THEY LAST LONGER BLAH BLAH BLAH

TECHNICALLY THE DE-BUNKERS ARE CORRECT THEY ARE CONTRAILS .............................................bUT THAT IS WHERE THE SIMILARITY ENDS I WILL SHOW YOU ALL WHAT I MEAN AS I POST MORE INFO

BE FOREWARNED YOU ARE PROBABLY ALREADY BEING WATCHED BY FEDS IN THIS THREAD AND I GUARANTEE YOU WILL BE WTACHED MORE NOW AS THEY TEND TO FOLLOW ME A BIT

NICE TO MEET YOU ALL AND LOOKING FORWARD TO GETTING TO THE MEAT OF THE MATTER SO TO SPEAK

ONWARD

We will talk about four active projects ongoing in the atmosphere.

The first project is an effort to block the rays of the sun from hitting the earth including the ultra violet radiation that will come through without an adequate layer of ozone in the upper regions above the earth. This, it is hoped, will lower temperature on the surface of the earth and block ultra
violet radiation from causing skin cancer in humans. The aerosol is probably aluminum oxide or a compound that would have similar properties.

The second and most secretive project is the United States Navy's, RFMP, Radio Frequency Mission Planner, military program. The RFMP is the system name given to a group of computer programs and one of the supporting,
subprograms within the RFMP system is called the VTRPE computer program. VTRPE is an acronym that stands for Variable Terrain Radio Parabolic Equation, It is a computer Radio Frequency propagation program that deals
with radio waves and enables the RFMP system to visually see the battlefield terrain in 3 dimensions (3-D) on a television screen. The RFMP system also
depends on satellites to feed their images of the battlefield into the RFMP system to be combined with the battlefield picture painted from the ground thus producing 3-D images.

By providing an extremely interactive and visual (television type radar screens) environment, the Radio Frequency Mission Planner, RFMP system allows the computer operator to develop familiarity with the "Radio Frequency" environment before a battlefield war mission occurs by playing a variety of "what-if" virtual warfare scenarios on his computer screen. Since all major modes of Radio Frequency propagation are modeled in his computer, (RFMP system), special, sometimes counter- intuitive, cases can be examined
in detail and exploited during a warfare battle mission.

The VTRPE computer program only worked accurately over water and along coastal areas but not over land masses because the system's radar waves required an atmospheric condition known as "ducting", over land, to operate
accurately.

The government and military solved the "ducting" problem by releasing an aerosol, a mixture of barium salts into the atmosphere over America. They made an atmospheric RF duct with a base of barium aerosol from aircraft. The
chemical and electrical characterics of the mixture will cause water moisture to stay in clouds. Again, the aerosol sets up an electrical and chemical environment that supports RF ducting for the RFMP / VTRPE warfare
system. Fibers with barium may support ducting. The mixture of barium salt aerosol when sprayed in a straight line will also provide a ducting path from point A to point B and will enable high frequency communications along
that path, even over the curvature of the earth, in both directions. Enemy high frequency communications can be monitored easier with the straight line A to B ducting medium.

The third project also utilizes the mixture of barium salts in the atmosphere. Weather control is a project of the U.S. Air Force and utilizes Nikola Tesla concepts of radio frequency radiation (HAARP) against the ionosphere above the earth. Fragile life support systems in our environment
are being manipulated, tested and altered by government for military advantage. Air Force documents implied, "the risks are high but the rewards are worth it." The mixture of barium salts, supporting moisture, is encouraged along the weather fronts and manipulated in a control fashion. It
is believed microwave energy is also utilized in the weather control program. Weather data is also a required input to the VTRPE program of the RFMP system. Perfected weather control technology will enable a military to withhold rain, cause floods, cause drought, cause storms, withhold sunshine, damage food crops, and bring any country to its knees without firing a shot.

The fourth project in the atmosphere is the DARPA, Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, biological detection and decontamination programs. The program also utilizes the mixture of barium salts as the base vehicle in
aerosol along with special polymer fibers in the atmosphere. They have released biological into the atmosphere in trials, testing the detection and decontamination systems.

[b] It is believed that barium salt, polymer fibers and other chemicals, in the atmosphere are the physical irritants that are either directly or indirectly responsible, for the recent nationwide epidemic increase in cases of nose
bleed, asthma, allergies, pneumonia, upper respiratory symptoms and a noticeable increase in arthritis symptoms, recently reported nationwide. Chemicals illegally sprayed into the atmosphere are producing atmospheric
and ground conditions detrimental to human and animal health but favorable to the growth of harmful molds and fungus. These conditions are not conducive to good health. The soluble salts of barium, an earth metal, are
toxic in mammalian systems. They are absorbed rapidly from the gastrointestinal tract and are deposited in the muscles, lungs, and bone. No case data is available from the medical community on the long term effects of barium in the human body.

The programs are secret because the Federal EPA and State Environmental Quality Agencies need to "not know" about what the by-products of the metabolites of biological, illegal and harmful agents are. It's for that reason the project has been declared secret from the citizens.[/b]

Something tells me this thread has just gone completely over the edge....

Negative, Marley, these are not "chemtrails". They are contrails, and they do indeed appear at night.

My wife grew up in Grapevine, where the airport is, she said her home was dumped on by planes about 3 times a month, and what they were dumping sure wasnt vapors

It seems you all are experiencing what we have also I looked at all the threads in this forum and what is striking?


4367 views on THIS post...............................none of the other posts are that Viewed JUST THIS ONE


my Bet is if your techie guys take a look they will find you have been getting visitors from the government

as well as the military on this thread.....................ask him to take a look he will tell you

almost 5000 views on a thread in which most posters "CLAIM" this to be nonsense

then you all have a guy who must be just a govt worker posting things that appear at EVERY thread about this subject i find

Nasa lark and sattelite views noaa drivel etc.

EVERYWHERE ON THE WEB you find this subject you will find THOUSANDS of HITS

this is no coincidence folks this THREAD is BEING watched

ohhhhhh

what you really meant was

"oh sh** someone who actually has some solid research and information"


btw i also responded to you on the last page

this is what Dr Edward Teller came up with a "sunscreen for earth" using contrails as reflective shields Barium and aluminum oxide chrged with ions are delivered via jet exhaust causing the developed fake cirrus clouds to dissipate DARPA point HAARP into the atmosphere sending the opposite ionic charge to "repel" the particle keeping them aloft longer making what we are referring to "Chemtrails"the chemicals are not deadly to all but have differeng effects on different people
they are in fact teaching this in childrens textbooks

What roker is saying is striking me as very very true.

If you do some research on project stormfury (weather control back in the day ) You will notice that they used alluminum oxide I think it was to seed clouds, and to affect hurricanes...

Oh and it just so happens that someone I know very well is an electrical engineer and works for the US gov. He is the lead researcher on most of the projects that come out of his department (now he just gets called in for special projects and does not officially work for them). He has worked on nuclear subs (missles can't be jammed or something like that), battleships (turrets turn faster with less power/recharges itself without outside power source) improved 9mm handgun of some type, and other things that I won't get into. about 6-10 years ago he was asked to make man-made lightning. This means that they are still working on weather control.

Global warming could go over that unstopable avalanche edge at any time now. The earth sun-screen idea sounds like something they would try. Especially since they already made the delivery system for weather control. Like I said before, and like others have said: People getting sick (if true) is only a side effect. This stuff is sprayed at high altitude for a reason. It hangs in the air for a reason. It blankets out for a reason. Those three facts make this the dumbest poisoning of all time lols. Think about it... IT IS NOT POISON (by purpose) AND IS NOT MEANT TO AFFECT HUMANS...

-Muddy

thank you for that post

so where are the rest of you who "Know" about this?

no debate no attempt at trying to effectvly de-bunk this with actual information?
Nasa and the government info is really not of any value as they are the ones that are
working on these technologies..........................

nobody else has noticed the high number of views on this thread? dosent it make you wonder why this thread is viewed so many times???

ask your techie peeps theyll tell ya

the US govt and military are hitting this thread

they drop out until another person like me comes along with supported theory

youll see the more i post the more they will look

135 views since i posted the 4367 number

thats alot of lookin

Let's see.

What did I mean by this:


Well, we have this:




All the charts are propaganda...


And this:

Big Brother is watching UM.
And this guy here who must be a government worker...geez, I wonder who that might be. Perhaps that NASA Disinformation Specialist MID, loathsome creature that he is...!




Your sense of self-importance is astounding...


Thus, to answer your comment, posed to my statement:




No, not at all.
What I really meant was that the fringe left wing base has invaded the thread and rendered it untenable.


Now,

I've just received a call from the men in black. They've informed me that I've failed miserably in my NASA duties to convince the people that contrails are just water vapor trails at high altitudes. I was supposed to cover the fact that they're really vehicles for governmental programs which carry a high percentage of risk to the population of this planet.

The statement I received was this:

"You did such a wonderful of of covering for our Apollo moon landing hoax, we had complete confidence that you'd be able to dispel this chemtrail thing with the same ease. We are sorry to inform you that you've failed in your duties and your "contract must be terminated".

I think you know what that means.

I must get out of the country at once.

But beware. Big Brother is watching this thread, intensely! If you think I'm in trouble, well, you'd better disconnect your computer right now, and get rid of that hard drive!

funny it was you who has answered the post

you must be doing some extra curricualr reading eh?


are you in the business of disinformation?

interesting that the exact same nasa lark website

shows up so often in discussions about this subject

sorry there Mr.Mid Im not a left winger...................nor am i one of "you"

I march to the beat of a different drummer id prefer to actually make some real changes

your another one of those folks hung up on the Right/Left issue eh?

what a redundant mundane way of viewing things

so tell me then again why would i believe nasa or noaa information..................

if they are two of the entities INVOLVED in all of this ??

of course they want us to believe nothing is happening

i see you completly sidestepped any of the real research data................

Ignoring currently running programs that support the theory of something INSIDE of contrails

you convienintly sidestep all of the information and attack me rather than address the information

very telling of you..............typical though its what most of you always resort to

when confronted with irrefutable information relating to the thread

youll have to do better than that


Can you show me some charts that show the grid patterns and X's A's and H's that are several hundreds of miles from no airports?

why would planes fly west then turn and come back east only to go back west and so on?


are traffic patterns in the habit of flying x patterns?no i dont think so.......................is it a nefarious plan to kill off population? No i dont believe that either

i do have several areas of related data and you wont address any of them

what explanation do YOU have for the OUTRAGEOUS amount of views on this ONE POST?

I am Admin at several other forums that discuss this we ALL have OUTRAGEOUS amounts of views on chemtrails threads

and they all share that in common many many military and noaa and even nasa hits

ask the guys here theyll tell you.................


when your ready to step up to the plate let me know

Don't know if this has any truth to it but i found this article on dark truth's web site.

An airline mechanics firsthand experience with chemtrail devices

An Anonymous Email From An Airline Mechanic:

For reasons you will understand as you read this I can not divulge my identity.

I am an aircraft mechanic for a major airline. I work at one of our maintenance bases located at a large airport. I have discovered some information that I think you will find important.

First, I should tell you something about the "pecking order" among mechanics. It is important to my story and to the cause to which you have dedicated yourself.

Mechanics want to work on three things. The avionics, the engines, or the flight controls. The mechanics that work on these systems are considered at the top of the "pecking order".

Next come the mechanics that work on the hydraulics and air conditioning systems. Then come the ones who work on the galley and other non-essential systems. But at the very bottom of the list are the mechanics that work on the waste disposal systems.

No mechanic wants to work on the pumps, tanks, and pipes that are used to store the waste from the lavatories. But at every airport where I have worked there are always 2 or 3 mechanics that volunteer to work on the lavatory systems.

The other mechanics are happy to let them do it. Because of this you will have only 2 or 3 mechanics that work on these systems at any one airport. No one pays much attention to these guys and no mechanic socializes with another mechanic who only works on the waste systems.

Fact is, I had never even thought much about this situation until last month. Like most airlines we have reciprocal agreements with the other airlines that fly into this airport. If they have a problem with a plane one of our mechanics will take care of it.

Likewise, if one of our planes has a problem at an airport where the other airline has a maintenance base, they will fix our plane.

One day last month I was called out from our base to work on a plane for another airline. When I got the call the dispatcher did not know what the problem was. When I got to the plane I found out that the problem was in waste disposal system. There was nothing for me to do but to crawl in and fix the problem.

When I got into the bay I realized that something was not right. There were more tanks, pumps, and pipes then should have been there. At first I assumed that the waste disposal system had been changed. It had been about 10 years since I had worked on this particular model of aircraft.

As I tried to find the problem I quickly realized the extra piping and tanks were not connected to the waste disposal system, at all. I had just discovered this when another mechanic from my company showed up. It was one of the mechanics who usually works on this particular type of plane, and I happily turned the job over to him.

As I was leaving I asked him about the extra equipment. He told me to "worry about my end of the plane and let him worry about his end!"

The next day I was on the company computer to look up a wiring schematic. While I was there I decided to look up the extra equipment I had found. To my amazement the manuals did not show any of the extra equipment I had seen with my own eyes the day before. I even tied in to the manufacturer files and still found nothing. Now I was really determined to find out what that equipment did.

The next week we had three of our planes in our main hanger for periodic inspection. There are mechanics crawling all over a plane during these inspections. I had just finished my shift and I decided to have a look at the waste system on one of our planes. With all the mechanics around I figured that no one would notice an extra one on the plane.

Sure enough, the plane I choose had the extra equipment! I began to trace the system of pipes, pumps, and tanks. I found what appeared to be the control unit for the system. It was a standard looking avionics control box but it had no markings of any kind.

I could trace the control wires from the box to the pumps and valves but there were no control circuits coming into the unit. The only wires coming into the unit was a power connection to the aircraft's main power bus.

The system had 1 large tank and 2 smaller tanks. It was hard to tell in the cramped compartment, but it looked like the large tank could hold about 50 gallons. The tanks were connected to a fill and drain valve that passed through the fuselage just behind the drain valve for the waste system.

When I had a chance to look for this connection under the plane I found it cunningly hidden behind a panel under the panel used to access the waste drain.

I began to trace the piping from the pumps. These pipes lead to a network of small pipes that ended in the trailing edges of the wings and horizontal stabilizers.

If you look closely at the wings of a large airplane you will see a set of wires, about the size of your finger, extending from the trailing edge of the wing surfaces. These are the static discharge wicks. They are used to dissipate the static electric charge that builds up on a plane in flight.

I discovered that the pipes from this mystery system lead to every 1 out of 3 of these static discharge wicks. These wicks had been "hollowed out" to allow whatever flows through these pipes to be discharged through the fake wicks.

Chem Trails From Airliner It was while I was on the wing that one of the managers spotted me. He ordered me out of the hanger telling me that my shift was over and I had not been authorized any overtime.

The next couple of days were very busy and I had no time to continue my investigation. Late one afternoon, two days after my discovery, I was called to replace an engine temperature sensor on a plane due to take off in two hours. I finished the job and turned in the paperwork.

About 30 minutes later I was paged to see the General Manager. When I went in his office I found that our union rep and two others who I did not know were waiting on me. He told me that a serious problem had been discovered. He said that I was being written up and suspended for turning in false paperwork.

He handed me a disciplinary form stating that I had turned in false paperwork on the engine temperature sensor I had installed a few hours before. I was floored and began to protest. I told them that this was ridiculous and that I had done this work.

The union rep spoke up at this point and recommended that we take a look at the plane to see if we could straighten it all out. I then asked who the other two men were. The GM told me that they were airline safety inspectors but would not give me their names.

We proceeded to the plane, which should have been in the air but was parked on our maintenance ramp. We opened the engine cowling and the union rep pulled the sensor. He checked the serial number and told everyone that it was the old instrument. We then went to the parts bay and went back into the racks.

The union rep checked my report and pulled from the rack a sealed box. He opened the box and pulled out the engine temperature sensor with the serial number of the one I had installed. I was told that I was suspended for a week without pay and to leave immediately.

I sat at home the first day of my suspension wondering what the hell had happened to me. That evening I received a phone call. The voice told me "Now you know what happens to mechanics who poke around in things they shouldn't. The next time you start working on systems that are no concern of yours you will lose your job! As it is, I'm feeling generous, I believe that you'll be able to go back to work soon." CLICK.

Again, I had to pick myself from off the floor. As my mind raced, it was at this moment that I made the connection that what had happened to me must have been directly connected to my tracing the "mysterious" piping.

mechanic3 (33K) The next morning the General Manager called me. He said that due to my past excellent employment record that the suspension had been reduced to one day and that I should report back to work immediately. The only thing I could think of was "what are they trying to hide" and "who are 'THEY'"!

That day at work went by as if nothing had happened. None of the other mechanics mentioned the suspension and my union rep told me not to talk about it. That night I logged onto the Internet to try to find some answers.

I don't remember now how I got there but I came across a site that talked about chemically-laced contrails.

That's when it all came together. But the next morning at work I found a note inside my locked locker. It said, "Curiosity killed the cat. Don't be looking at Internet sites that are no concern of yours."

Well that's it. Now I know 'THEY' are watching me.

While I don't know what THEY are spraying, I can tell you how they are doing it. I figure they are using the "honey trucks". These are the trucks that empty the waste from the lavatory waste tanks.

The airports usually contract out this job and nobody goes near these trucks. Who wants to stand next a truck full of sh--. While these guys are emptying the waste tanks, it makes sense that they could easily be filling the tanks of the spray system.

They know the planes flight path so they probably program the control unit to start spraying some amount of time after the plane reaches a certain altitude. The spray nozzles in the fake static wicks are so small that no one in the plane would see a thing.

God help us all.

-- A concerned citizen
http://dark-truth.blogspot.com/2007/01/air...experience.html

IMO, this is a made-up story. There are several things that, if you'll pardon the pun, don't smell right.

The guy is assigned by dispatch but they don't know what the problem is? How do you know if it's avionics, airframe, hydraulics, electrical, mechanical, etc? So they send this guy. He's told the problem is in the waste disposal, so he goes into fix it. Then this other guy turns up, and he tells him not to worry about his end. So what was the first guy doing "fixing" a system he was not certified on? Aircraft are not like 'Joe Mechanic Autos'; you are certified on systems and types otherwise you don't touch them!

He then refers to wiring schematics but actually means fluid systems or tank diagrammes; maybe just a slip of the tongue.

He then "discovers" all these systems which aren't in the maintenance technical manuals. He confirms that they are in the aircraft but not in the books. remember that, and we'll return to it later.

he then has a run-in with the GM and two 'unidentified' inspectors. Bull - the union rep would know full well that if the inspectors had a problem, then they would have to identify themselves. John Smith from the FAA, etc. There would be paperwork from them saying that this was an unannounced or regular inspection, and that during the inspection the following problems had turned up. It would be necessary to substantiate any disciplinary or criminal action against the guy.

Now he gets all sorts of threats. What could he do?

Well, he could get a copy of the tech manuals and show that there are systems installed which are not listed. That's an airworthiness violation; the aircraft would be grounded, and the AMO investigated. That would substantiate his claim.

Nope, sorry, but the story is just that - a story. Little or no truth in it at all.

Oh - and I have 20 years experience in the aviation world.

The number of views on this thread are not that high when you consider how many replies it has. It only looks high when you see most of the other threads on the first page only have a few replies and a corresponding lower number of views. The ratio of views to replies is not statistically different from almost any other thread here.

As for the NASA and military views, you ahve yet to show that this thread is getting any. Since you are not involved with the moderation or admin of this forum, I doubt you ever will. Even if there were a higher number of views from those places, so what? How do you know that they aren't repeatedly viewing the thread to laugh at it and show their friends so they'll have a laugh? I know I do that with my friends.

The thread has been around since may, the number of views isn't strange at all. There are threads with over 1000 views in the last month.

quote by YOU
"As for the NASA and military views, you ahve yet to show that this thread is getting any"

what a childish stab in the dark so much so you realize and try to save yourself in the next sentance.................

of course i CANT prove it IM NOT PRIVVY TO THAT INFO HERE i asked you to ask THOSE THAT ARE and you will be surprised i am sure


I moderate at other Boards that share similar ideas and there has BEEN CONSISTENTLY a large percentage of hits on CHEMTRAIL THREADS by

NASA,NOAA and the United states Military ..............................also they too share the large number of views

btw this thread is actually small in comparison to others and yet still has the same number of views spin away spin away...........

Go on folks dont listen to anyone look at everything for yourself THEN decide

Buddy your not the sharpest crayon in the box ........better try another

Really?


I have another thread same as this somewhere else it has 47 pages


and 920 replies

and its been viewed

oh thats right 5179 times

only 600 more than THIS THREAD

your logic dosent hold up to those stats

another thread im in

59 pages............................................1254 replies.............................................................5432 views again only maybe 1000 views off of THIS thread but some 50

more pages and 5 times the responses


the other interesting thing at those2 sites is those chemtrail threads have the most views of any posts on theyre boards and both recieve regular hits from

NASA,NOAA,ARMY,and Navy

Washington urges scientists to develop ways to reflect sunlight as 'insurance'

David Adam, environment correspondent
Saturday January 27, 2007
The Guardian


linked-image
Smog above Phoenix, Arizona – US report suggests reflective dust could reduce warming. Photograph: Deirdre Hamill/AP

The US government wants the world's scientists to develop technology to block sunlight as a last-ditch way to halt global warming, the Guardian has learned. It says research into techniques such as giant mirrors in space or reflective dust pumped into the atmosphere would be "important insurance" against rising emissions, and has lobbied for such a strategy to be recommended by a major UN report on climate change, the first part of which will be published on Friday.

The US has also attempted to steer the UN report, prepared by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), away from conclusions that would support a new worldwide climate treaty based on binding targets to reduce emissions - as sought by Tony Blair. It has demanded a draft of the report be changed to emphasise the benefits of voluntary agreements and to include criticisms of the Kyoto Protocol, the existing treaty which the US administration opposes.
The final IPCC report, written by experts from across the world, will underpin international negotiations to devise a new emissions treaty to succeed Kyoto, the first phase of which expires in 2012. World governments were given a draft of the report last year and invited to comment.

The US response, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, says the idea of interfering with sunlight should be included in the summary for policymakers, the prominent chapter at the front of each IPCC report. It says: "Modifying solar radiance may be an important strategy if mitigation of emissions fails. Doing the R&D to estimate the consequences of applying such a strategy is important insurance that should be taken out. This is a very important possibility that should be considered."

Scientists have previously estimated that reflecting less than 1% of sunlight back into space could compensate for the warming generated by all greenhouse gases emitted since the industrial revolution. Possible techniques include putting a giant screen into orbit, thousands of tiny, shiny balloons, or microscopic sulphate droplets pumped into the high atmosphere to mimic the cooling effects of a volcanic eruption. The IPCC draft said such ideas were "speculative, uncosted and with potential unknown side-effects".

The US submission is based on the views of dozens of government officials and is accompanied by a letter signed by Harlan Watson, senior climate negotiator at the US state department. It complains the IPCC draft report is "Kyoto-centric" and it wants to include the work of economists who have reported "the degree to which the Kyoto framework is found wanting". It takes issue with a statement that "one weakness of the [Kyoto] protocol, however, is its non-ratificiation by some significant greenhouse gas emitters" and asks: "Is this the only weakness worth mentioning? Are there others?"

It also insists the wording on the ineffectiveness of voluntary agreements be altered to include "a number of them have had significant impacts" and complains that overall "the report tends to overstate or focus on the negative effects of climate change." It also wants more emphasis on responsibilities of the developing world.

The IPCC report is made up of three sections. The first, on the science of climate change, will be launched on Friday. Sections on the impact and mitigation of climate change - in which the US wants to include references to the sun-blocking technology - will follow later this year.

The likely contents of the report have been an open secret since the Bush administration posted its draft copy on the internet in April. Next week's science report will say there is a 90% chance that human activity is warming the planet, and that global average temperatures will rise another 1.5C to 5.8C this century depending on emissions. The US response shows it accepts these statements, but it disagrees with a more tentative conclusion that rising temperatures have made hurricanes more powerful.

· See the US document here in pdf format.

Source THE GUARDIAN

Well, the “Pictures of Anneliese Michel” thread over in the Ghosts, Hauntings, & the Paranormal forum here has received 124,887 views since it started on March 17. Is the government now monitoring exorcism cases, too, or was this poor girl somehow part of the chemtrail conspiracy?

there are always exceptions and can be other threads with large views
i am speaking about THIS particular thread and my experience with chemtrail threads and what i have seen
why that thread you have shown has so many hits i could not really tell you


my initial thought is that its probably incorrect .........but i also could be dead wrong on that anyhow

these are the points you all chose to challenge leaving the meat of matter alone

quite telling

If Planes are up that high (30,000 - 40,000 ft) spraying , isnt that up in the jet stream , chemicals would get so diluted , there would be no point

thanks for the reply wookie

there is Still a point as they are using the contrails for several different areas of technology if you look into any of the 4 you will see just how they are utilizing the different technologies and for which purposes
DARPA and the HAARP facility are currently using the Jet Stream and Upper troposhphere to conduct theyre current experiments they are using ULF VLF and ELF along with aeresol sprays to conduct tests if you look into some of these projects you can see how the technology works and understand the priciples it takes a GREAT DEAL OF TIME to wade past the front "chemtrail" issue it has been a long road for myself in trying to wind through the maze

it is actually not as nefarious and sinister as many would have you to believe ............
these are the reports that are spread like a virus adding to the cloak of secrecy

if you take the time and follow at least loosely what i have layed out here you can start to connect the dots too

thanks for the reply

So, you're telling me that there's nothing unique about this thread getting a large number of views and that it's not the "meat of the matter," so it's not worth responding to. Right. Glad we could agree on this.

The General concensus on this particular piece is that it had been proven the the original writer "sprayplanepilot"

was someone who made up the entire thing, and posted it to prove how easily people would buy into something.

It made its way around the world, and appeared in almost every chemtrail thread out there............causing some

speculation on whether or not any or all of the story is true.......

MYSELF? I believe it is in fact DIS-information designed to discredit anyone who may have bought into the whole scheme

being that many websites circulated this bogus letter it defenitly lent a hand in declaring these sites as whackjobs

"proving" that they are easily "duped" by simply planting a bogus "letter" in theyre midst.......

so thats how i see it

Number one, if the Gov was "watching" your thread, you wouldn't know it.

Number two, the aircraft flight patterns you reference are actually not all that unreasonable if you take into account military aircraft that fly training missions all the time.

Number three, there are some missions that are flown that are active missions, around the clock, and none of these missions follow "normal" flight-paths.

Chemtrails are a great conspiracy theory. I have looked at the websites. There is no compelling evidence that anything is being intentionally pumped into the atmosphere by secret aircraft or shadow gov. agencies.

You should discuss this with straydog...well, forget it, that's not possible.
Of course I am in the business of NASA Disinformation. If you read deeply enough you would no that by now.

"Not one of you", eh?

What is 'one of me'? Rhetorical question.


Well, you wouldn't. I think that's the point here.
NASA and NOAA information, despite the fact that pilots have been using it for decades (myself included), with pretty good reliability (all those false charts you speak of), is a complete crock. I think you've proven that beyond any shadow of a doubt.




No one attacked you.
It was simply pointing out that your general premise is beyond the pale, unsubstantiated, and unproven. "Irrefutable information?" OK, fine...

There are several possible scenarios.
However, jet routes do not include 180s or S turns.
You'd have to site specific instances, places, times, etc., in order to have any explanations of strange patterns in the skies.



None.
The Moon Hoax Thread here was the most viewed thread in this block before it ended...over 4000 replies and 150000 views....about 31 times the responses, and about 31 times the views of this thread...

Of course, the Government pays close attention to that sort of discussion too (believe me, I know, I was instructed to watch it every single day, and get rid of it!).


There is absolutely nothing outrageous about the amount of views on this thread.
Your contention that military, NOAA and NASA hits on this thread are many is ridiculous, and cannot be substantiated (believe me, none of the aforementioned care one bit about what's going on at UM or any other board where "conspiracies" are discussed. They are a little too busy to worry about this kind of thing! I realize that you may not realize that, but the people who work at NASA could care less, about this thread, or the Apollo hoax, or any other CT stuff).



As a baseball player for over 30 years, I can tell you...


It's always more fun to step up to the plate when there's a pitcher on the mound who can actually pitch...

this is where i am coming from.........................................



i believe that Chemtrails is an incorrect term for what we are witnessing they are using CONTRAILS to deliver heavy metals and barium for several seperate technologies

here is a brief rundown of what i am finding and i will continue to discuss my theory this is a re-post of earlier info i posted for those to lazy to look

four active projects ongoing in the atmosphere.

The first project is an effort to block the rays of the sun from hitting the earth including the ultra violet radiation that will come through without an adequate layer of ozone in the upper regions above the earth. This, it is hoped, will lower temperature on the surface of the earth and block ultra
violet radiation from causing skin cancer in humans. The aerosol is probably aluminum oxide or a compound that would have similar properties.

The second and most secretive project is the United States Navy's, RFMP, Radio Frequency Mission Planner, military program. The RFMP is the system name given to a group of computer programs and one of the supporting,
subprograms within the RFMP system is called the VTRPE computer program. VTRPE is an acronym that stands for Variable Terrain Radio Parabolic Equation, It is a computer Radio Frequency propagation program that deals
with radio waves and enables the RFMP system to visually see the battlefield terrain in 3 dimensions (3-D) on a television screen. The RFMP system also
depends on satellites to feed their images of the battlefield into the RFMP system to be combined with the battlefield picture painted from the ground thus producing 3-D images.

By providing an extremely interactive and visual (television type radar screens) environment, the Radio Frequency Mission Planner, RFMP system allows the computer operator to develop familiarity with the "Radio Frequency" environment before a battlefield war mission occurs by playing a variety of "what-if" virtual warfare scenarios on his computer screen. Since all major modes of Radio Frequency propagation are modeled in his computer, (RFMP system), special, sometimes counter- intuitive, cases can be examined
in detail and exploited during a warfare battle mission.

The VTRPE computer program only worked accurately over water and along coastal areas but not over land masses because the system's radar waves required an atmospheric condition known as "ducting", over land, to operate
accurately.

The government and military solved the "ducting" problem by releasing an aerosol, a mixture of barium salts into the atmosphere over America. They made an atmospheric RF duct with a base of barium aerosol from aircraft. The
chemical and electrical characterics of the mixture will cause water moisture to stay in clouds. Again, the aerosol sets up an electrical and chemical environment that supports RF ducting for the RFMP / VTRPE warfare
system. Fibers with barium may support ducting. The mixture of barium salt aerosol when sprayed in a straight line will also provide a ducting path from point A to point B and will enable high frequency communications along
that path, even over the curvature of the earth, in both directions. Enemy high frequency communications can be monitored easier with the straight line A to B ducting medium.

The third project also utilizes the mixture of barium salts in the atmosphere. Weather control is a project of the U.S. Air Force and utilizes Nikola Tesla concepts of radio frequency radiation (HAARP) against the ionosphere above the earth. Fragile life support systems in our environment
are being manipulated, tested and altered by government for military advantage. Air Force documents implied, "the risks are high but the rewards are worth it." The mixture of barium salts, supporting moisture, is encouraged along the weather fronts and manipulated in a control fashion. It
is believed microwave energy is also utilized in the weather control program. Weather data is also a required input to the VTRPE program of the RFMP system. Perfected weather control technology will enable a military to withhold rain, cause floods, cause drought, cause storms, withhold sunshine, damage food crops, and bring any country to its knees without firing a shot.

The fourth project in the atmosphere is the DARPA, Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, biological detection and decontamination programs. The program also utilizes the mixture of barium salts as the base vehicle in
aerosol along with special polymer fibers in the atmosphere. They have released biological into the atmosphere in trials, testing the detection and decontamination systems.

[b] It is believed that barium salt, polymer fibers and other chemicals, in the atmosphere are the physical irritants that are either directly or indirectly responsible, for the recent nationwide epidemic increase in cases of nose
bleed, asthma, allergies, pneumonia, upper respiratory symptoms and a noticeable increase in arthritis symptoms, recently reported nationwide. Chemicals illegally sprayed into the atmosphere are producing atmospheric
and ground conditions detrimental to human and animal health but favorable to the growth of harmful molds and fungus. These conditions are not conducive to good health. The soluble salts of barium, an earth metal, are
toxic in mammalian systems. They are absorbed rapidly from the gastrointestinal tract and are deposited in the muscles, lungs, and bone. No case data is available from the medical community on the long term effects of barium in the human body.

The programs are secret because the Federal EPA and State Environmental Quality Agencies need to "not know" about what the by-products of the metabolites of biological, illegal and harmful agents are. It's for that reason the project has been declared secret from the citizens.[/b]

heres a few pics of some of those normal flight paths

So what's wrong with them? Are paths not supposed to cross? The parallel ones have a simple explanation. A plane could lay one contrail which is then blown some by the wind. When the next plane comes along a similar path, it is next to the previous contrail as it has moved some from the wind. The crossed ones just happen to be where two jets crossed at different times and likely slightly different altitudes as well.


Incidentally, your first photo is severly distorting the forum. Could you perhaps resize it?

are paths not supposed to cross...................cmon a tic tac toe formation that was formed while someone watched it without an airshow or stunt show or military aircraft and the x's appear several at a time yeah jets alway fly and make these patterns as normal flight paths.....not hardly several of thos pictures were taken by me i watched the planes actually flying and making the xs the h's and those grids.........all of which eventually spread into cloud cover some of which you can see beginning to happen in some of my photos

this took place where there are no military flights nor is it in the traffic lanes for commercial or passenger flights i have seen it almost daily for years now some days its just unbelievable
those jets didnt cross at "DIFFERENT" times i witnessed them laying the x's myself i also watched the same 3 planes go back and forth for 2 hrs laying parralell lines that morphed into a light "cloud cover"
they are creating a sunscreen it is above in a couple of the posts

i dont know how to re-size it?

They're not from jets? What the HELL? I thought they were? I ALWAYS see those. O_o

some chemtrails are weather modification attempts...I dont think they have much success...

You miss my point. If the gov did not want you to know, you would not know. If some bored dude on a base or at NASA checks out your site, so what?

As for the air-traffic, I find your assesment unreal. Do you know anything about how certain missions work? How multiple aircraft work in tandem, etc? There are aircraft that are located in the middle of America that fly missions to the middle of the Atlantic EVERYDAY, sometimes around the world. At higher altitudes, they will fly missions or practice missions for hours and hours over areas that are not normally traveled by aircraft.

I still see little if any evidence that what you claim or what you suppose is true. It's just another conspiracy theory if you ask me.

The organized jet route airspace over the United States is busy, and concentrated. None of the photos shown indicate anything unusual.

Something most people don't realize (and there's no reason they should) is that a jet route is actually a rectangular cubic structure, which extends from 18000 feet ASL(above sea level, flight level (FL) 180) to FL 450 (45000 feet ASL). They are also approximately 9 1/4 statute miles wide.

It is not uncommon to see several parallel flying aircraft all going in the same direction. They are on the same jet route. It is also not uncommon to see planes going in exactly opposite directions on the same jet routes. It rather looks like planes on a collision course, but they are not...they are at separate altitudes based on their headings. Additionally, jet routes are numerous, and go in all directions across the United States, and planes frequently appear to be criss-crossing each other as they fly on different jet routes and at different altitudes.

There are also virtually no places in the continental United States that don't have jet routes overhead. People see them almost everywhere on a daily basis, weather permitting, of course.

The paths you illustrate are are normal patterns that occur every day.
You didn't watch the same airplanes going back and forth for two hours. You saw different airplanes flying the same jet routes. This is typical.

How would you possibly know that no jet routes cross the airspace where you live?
Jet routes cross almost everywhere in the U.S.

How additionally would you know that the same jets were making these patterns, when the jets themselves are not visible, you cannot identify them, and they're all jets enroute to someplace, with a bunch of people who would make one hell of a stink if the pilot decided to fly back and forth for two hours...?

All you're seeing here is some of the busy U.S. air traffic that populates our skies every single day.
About 14,000 (+) flights take place every day in the U.S. alone.
What do you think the odds are, of NOT seeing contrails in the sky?

And as a pilot for alot longer than you were a mechanic...I can tell you that despite the fact that the government is indeed testing new technologies, contrails have to do with high altitude water vapor condensation provided by exhaust particulates which act as condensation nuclei. I've pulled a few, and there was never anything in the fuel I burned which contained anything but kerosene!

Contrails are typical. They appear when the conditions aloft are conducive to them. Sometimes, they appear, and stick around for a time. Sometimes, they appear, and dissapate quickly, and sometimes, they don't appear at all.

This is all due to humidity levels at flight level altitudes. (18000 feet and above). It has nothing to do with chemicals.
We're testing these new technologies on passenger aircraft...right (you honestly think that non-military, ciivilian passenger aircraft are being used for these military programs?).

Look, this has gone way over the edge, as I've said.
You say, "better go back to the bullpen."


I'd like to remind you that it was you who asked me to step up to the plate. Thus, I am the hitter. You were the pitcher.
It seems the pitcher never came out of the bullpen...

Actually weather modification is a REAL TIME science it is performed by Both The US Air Force as well as private companies
Both in the United States and abroad...they do not use chemtrails or contrails the rely mostly on "Cloud seeding" yet a ANOTHER facet in the gem that is "Chemtrail"
weather modification has been being conducted for more than 20 yrs in the United States it is used for hail abatement drought relief as well as flood relief
The united states govt is currently await a Senate Bill Number 517 to bo made law it completly details weather modification being conducted


No it is not a perfect science but it is a REAL science

the relation in this case with chemtrails and weather is the Earth Sunscreen theory developed By Dr Edward Teller and perfected BY the US Military and Government
they use reflective chaffe to re direct sunlight.....there has even been a recent move to make that govt approved also it is in the article i just posted about it

thats a quote from this website
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/aids.html

its creepy why the people of the united states dont just all march into some of these "forbidden" areas, like area 51. what are they going to do? kill maybe 1000+ people who are trying to find out whats in there? get media coverage, that'll do the trick.

Whatever dude. You're mixing fact and fiction. I've heard and seen the "sunscreen" thing before. Maybe I'm just replying to the whole chemtrail thing in general, but I think you're way off the mark, and making a mountain out of a molehill.

there is NO mixing of fact or fiction here
and if you are so covinced of such why dont you just show us where this mixing of things comes in eh? everything i have brought to you is common Knowledge technology
where is it EXACTLY that you have "SEEN" the suncreen theory in use? Dr Edward Teller only BROUGHT UP A THEORY it has been improved upon and s currently being instituted
I have brought you all a very RECENT article that discusses this theory and how the UNITED STATES is putting "Pressure" on others to "Adopt" a progaram similar to this
again making it NON-Fiction

so i am here awaiting your support of my Mixing fact and fiction................BTW im neither making mountains or mole hills i am simply reporting what i am finding behind the "Chemtrail" conspiracy.........and that is a multitude of programs being conducted ......some of which possibly are making people ill from these exercises ......particularly so when it comes to D.A.R.P.A.s use of HAARP and aeresol bilogical warfare

I look forward to discussing it with you more

have a great day


BTW


here is the Guardian article written 27th jan 2007



David Adam, environment correspondent
Saturday January 27, 2007
The Guardian


linked-image
Smog above Phoenix, Arizona – US report suggests reflective dust could reduce warming. Photograph: Deirdre Hamill/AP

The US government wants the world's scientists to develop technology to block sunlight as a last-ditch way to halt global warming, the Guardian has learned. It says research into techniques such as giant mirrors in space or reflective dust pumped into the atmosphere would be "important insurance" against rising emissions, and has lobbied for such a strategy to be recommended by a major UN report on climate change, the first part of which will be published on Friday.

The US has also attempted to steer the UN report, prepared by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), away from conclusions that would support a new worldwide climate treaty based on binding targets to reduce emissions - as sought by Tony Blair. It has demanded a draft of the report be changed to emphasise the benefits of voluntary agreements and to include criticisms of the Kyoto Protocol, the existing treaty which the US administration opposes.
The final IPCC report, written by experts from across the world, will underpin international negotiations to devise a new emissions treaty to succeed Kyoto, the first phase of which expires in 2012. World governments were given a draft of the report last year and invited to comment.

The US response, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, says the idea of interfering with sunlight should be included in the summary for policymakers, the prominent chapter at the front of each IPCC report. It says: "Modifying solar radiance may be an important strategy if mitigation of emissions fails. Doing the R&D to estimate the consequences of applying such a strategy is important insurance that should be taken out. This is a very important possibility that should be considered."

Scientists have previously estimated that reflecting less than 1% of sunlight back into space could compensate for the warming generated by all greenhouse gases emitted since the industrial revolution. Possible techniques include putting a giant screen into orbit, thousands of tiny, shiny balloons, or microscopic sulphate droplets pumped into the high atmosphere to mimic the cooling effects of a volcanic eruption. The IPCC draft said such ideas were "speculative, uncosted and with potential unknown side-effects".

The US submission is based on the views of dozens of government officials and is accompanied by a letter signed by Harlan Watson, senior climate negotiator at the US state department. It complains the IPCC draft report is "Kyoto-centric" and it wants to include the work of economists who have reported "the degree to which the Kyoto framework is found wanting". It takes issue with a statement that "one weakness of the [Kyoto] protocol, however, is its non-ratificiation by some significant greenhouse gas emitters" and asks: "Is this the only weakness worth mentioning? Are there others?"

It also insists the wording on the ineffectiveness of voluntary agreements be altered to include "a number of them have had significant impacts" and complains that overall "the report tends to overstate or focus on the negative effects of climate change." It also wants more emphasis on responsibilities of the developing world.

The IPCC report is made up of three sections. The first, on the science of climate change, will be launched on Friday. Sections on the impact and mitigation of climate change - in which the US wants to include references to the sun-blocking technology - will follow later this year.

The likely contents of the report have been an open secret since the Bush administration posted its draft copy on the internet in April. Next week's science report will say there is a 90% chance that human activity is warming the planet, and that global average temperatures will rise another 1.5C to 5.8C this century depending on emissions. The US response shows it accepts these statements, but it disagrees with a more tentative conclusion that rising temperatures have made hurricanes more powerful.

· See the US document here in pdf format.

Source THE GUARDIAN

I looked all over the web, here and on another network, and I find little of what you report to be fact. I see a lot of this stuff on websites that get their info from dubious sources. I read several technical papers that gave me a headache on the RF propagation theories and atmospheric testing and effects on laser as well as RF communication.
I looked at some official and un official documentation regarding the reflective ideas being tossed around to halt global warming. I even looked at stuff you can't look at.
The evidence you have is primarily anecdotal, mixed with hard science and theoretical proposals. That does not equal a conspiracy. Show me a picture of a plane loaded with an aerosol sprayer full of a barium solution, then get back to me.

Ok...

So, all these connies are not passenger planes, they are secret miltary OPS.

I see...

Well, there's one thing that hasn't been done yet, save alot of bold and colored type, which is now boring, and all too familiar to many of us here.

You haven't proved your ideas, a bit.

This of course has been apparent since you started the discussion, and it certainly looks like you're being challenged beyond you ability to defend...



Of course...


It appears that anyone who's read the last 4 pages has seen that you haven't proved your contention. It's a nice theory, but it is devoid of any substantive proof.


I pointed out that your photos were just connies, and you go off in bold type telling me of secret government projects...fine..


BELIEVE what you want.
Knowledge is in the proof.

That is absent.
Have fun with it.

Hi im new here, i have been reading all of the information you all have posted here in this string. I must say i find it rather intriguing i can see why it easily becomes heated when debating its specifics.some of you have done a fine job presenting yourselves others not so well.and seems like most everyone gets "mugged" when they post in favor of chemtrails being for real. From what i have read the one man rocker has presented some very interesting points,but has been rather cocky in his presentation MID has also been a bit cocky in his reponses buth there have been some good posts and there is actually some real information in the post here


I dont believe the rocker guy was saying there were no Contrails,to the contrary he was saying there are contrails and that he understood how they worked.MID kept saying that this rocker was saying that all of the contrails were only military and secret ops. that is not what i read here. in fact the other guy said that contrails were normal and that all aircraft produced them,he went on to say he felt there were some contrails that were being used By D.A.R.P.A.,some