Full Version: Chemtrails over North Texas
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > News, Media & World Events > Conspiracies & Secret Societies
Jets fly where I live all the time and they leave those contrails and I never feel weak or sickly when I see them.
Hi
Actully No Sir I havent given away any information that is not public knowledge.I havent divulged any classified information. I confirmed a program that is in use.
one can easily read up about it in many different places.The program itself is not classified. so sir i am sorry you saw something other than what was intended.
well thats great to see you have looked into it .and i also see you say there are bits and pieces of it..... well keep digging then maybe those pices are a part of something bigger than what you see right now? maybe notI myself have looked into alot of this and i find much of it to be worth looking at more as i find the pieces are making something whole
thats my opinion anyways
I notice you mention weather propogation has been around since the early forties .I dont dispute that but that sir is Weather Modification I am not purporting any of this to have anything with weather modification.Yes those techonologies exist and we have been perfecting thme for years they are conducted by Both Air Force and private companies.
the rocker guy mentioned that too i believe that it had been around for some time and that cloud seeding was not what this was about.I dont believe that either.
I do in fact believe that HAARP and D.A.R.P.A. work on a different TYPE of weather modification using scalar tecnology and elf,vlf, and ulf and "broiling" the atmosphere to affect
changes in the atmosphere and flow of the stream China and Russia also use scalar tecnology....some chemtrail exercises are used to detect scalar warping in the atmosphere
DARPAs using haarp in other ways also,The inventor of HAARP has been very upfront in discussing the myriad of technology it posess
well it is fine to have differeng opinions
as we apprently do thanks for taking the time
Mr.Eggmumby its been a pleasure
Jimmy phelps
Actully No Sir I havent given away any information that is not public knowledge.I havent divulged any classified information. I confirmed a program that is in use.
one can easily read up about it in many different places.The program itself is not classified. so sir i am sorry you saw something other than what was intended.
well thats great to see you have looked into it .and i also see you say there are bits and pieces of it..... well keep digging then maybe those pices are a part of something bigger than what you see right now? maybe notI myself have looked into alot of this and i find much of it to be worth looking at more as i find the pieces are making something whole
thats my opinion anyways
I notice you mention weather propogation has been around since the early forties .I dont dispute that but that sir is Weather Modification I am not purporting any of this to have anything with weather modification.Yes those techonologies exist and we have been perfecting thme for years they are conducted by Both Air Force and private companies.
the rocker guy mentioned that too i believe that it had been around for some time and that cloud seeding was not what this was about.I dont believe that either.
I do in fact believe that HAARP and D.A.R.P.A. work on a different TYPE of weather modification using scalar tecnology and elf,vlf, and ulf and "broiling" the atmosphere to affect
changes in the atmosphere and flow of the stream China and Russia also use scalar tecnology....some chemtrail exercises are used to detect scalar warping in the atmosphere
DARPAs using haarp in other ways also,The inventor of HAARP has been very upfront in discussing the myriad of technology it posess
well it is fine to have differeng opinions
as we apprently do thanks for taking the time
Mr.Eggmumby its been a pleasure
Jimmy phelps
QUOTE(jimmyphelps @ Feb 2 2007, 05:18 AM) [snapback]1526398[/snapback]
Hi
Actully No Sir I havent given away any information that is not public knowledge.I havent divulged any classified information. I confirmed a program that is in use.
one can easily read up about it in many different places.The program itself is not classified. so sir i am sorry you saw something other than what was intended.
well thats great to see you have looked into it .and i also see you say there are bits and pieces of it..... well keep digging then maybe those pices are a part of something bigger than what you see right now? maybe notI myself have looked into alot of this and i find much of it to be worth looking at more as i find the pieces are making something whole
thats my opinion anyways
I notice you mention weather propogation has been around since the early forties .I dont dispute that but that sir is Weather Modification I am not purporting any of this to have anything with weather modification.Yes those techonologies exist and we have been perfecting thme for years they are conducted by Both Air Force and private companies.
the rocker guy mentioned that too i believe that it had been around for some time and that cloud seeding was not what this was about.I dont believe that either.
I do in fact believe that HAARP and D.A.R.P.A. work on a different TYPE of weather modification using scalar tecnology and elf,vlf, and ulf and "broiling" the atmosphere to affect
changes in the atmosphere and flow of the stream China and Russia also use scalar tecnology....some chemtrail exercises are used to detect scalar warping in the atmosphere
DARPAs using haarp in other ways also,The inventor of HAARP has been very upfront in discussing the myriad of technology it posess
well it is fine to have differeng opinions
as we apprently do thanks for taking the time
Mr.Eggmumby its been a pleasure
Jimmy phelps
Actully No Sir I havent given away any information that is not public knowledge.I havent divulged any classified information. I confirmed a program that is in use.
one can easily read up about it in many different places.The program itself is not classified. so sir i am sorry you saw something other than what was intended.
well thats great to see you have looked into it .and i also see you say there are bits and pieces of it..... well keep digging then maybe those pices are a part of something bigger than what you see right now? maybe notI myself have looked into alot of this and i find much of it to be worth looking at more as i find the pieces are making something whole
thats my opinion anyways
I notice you mention weather propogation has been around since the early forties .I dont dispute that but that sir is Weather Modification I am not purporting any of this to have anything with weather modification.Yes those techonologies exist and we have been perfecting thme for years they are conducted by Both Air Force and private companies.
the rocker guy mentioned that too i believe that it had been around for some time and that cloud seeding was not what this was about.I dont believe that either.
I do in fact believe that HAARP and D.A.R.P.A. work on a different TYPE of weather modification using scalar tecnology and elf,vlf, and ulf and "broiling" the atmosphere to affect
changes in the atmosphere and flow of the stream China and Russia also use scalar tecnology....some chemtrail exercises are used to detect scalar warping in the atmosphere
DARPAs using haarp in other ways also,The inventor of HAARP has been very upfront in discussing the myriad of technology it posess
well it is fine to have differeng opinions
as we apprently do thanks for taking the time
Mr.Eggmumby its been a pleasure
Jimmy phelps
Validating the existence of a classified program by stating your military status/position is wrong. If you worked for me I'd have you read the UCMJ and pick out the articles you violated. Any you missed you'd go to a Courts Martial for.
QUOTE
From what i have read the one man rocker has presented some very interesting points,but has been rather cocky in his presentation MID has also been a bit cocky in his reponses buth there have been some good posts and there is actually some real information in the post here
MID is actually "crotchety", not cocky.Just ask aqautus!
QUOTE
I dont believe the rocker guy was saying there were no Contrails,to the contrary he was saying there are contrails and that he understood how they worked.MID kept saying that this rocker was saying that all of the contrails were only military and secret ops. that is not what i read here. in fact the other guy said that contrails were normal and that all aircraft produced them,he went on to say he felt there were some contrails that were being used By D.A.R.P.A.,some being used By the navy,some being used by scientist etc.
he was also talking about the different reasons they were being used
he was also talking about the different reasons they were being used
If you read carefully, I think you'll see the problem was that rocker...wasn't being exactly clear in what he was implying.
I realize he knows what contrails are, and that they exist. I also realize he seems to think that some of these planes are being used for some secret research and experimentation.
The point is that there is an hypothesis presented, but no proof it. Thus, no one can draw a conclusion.
It is really very much like the current furor over "global warming", for which various consensi emerge. However, that in no way means that it is a proof. A consensus is meaningless in science. It means that some people agree on a hypothesis. It does not however succeed in proving the hypothesis.
QUOTE
the one guys says the other guy hasnt proven his point one bit. but the other guy has brough information on many areas relating to the subject. he has brought recent news articles supporting some of his theoris,and as a member of the United States navy i can only tell you that the RFMP program he cited is for real we are using it and it is considered secret the fact that we are doing it is known details are not known due to national security thats all i can say on that program mentioned......
I said he hasn't proved his idea. He is merely proposing a hypothesis. There is no evidence in support of the hypothesis as a provable fact. Information from many areas about programs that may well exist is not proof. It merely supports the hypothesis. There is a difference between that and proving the hypothesis. QUOTE
In some senate bills there are references to "chemtrails" as weapons and theyre being banned for use in warfare you can find these documents they are availible with a foia
You see, this is all about logic.
This thread is about "chemtrails". What people are talking about are contrails. Now, if there are references to alleged "chgemtrails" in senate bills as being banned for use in warfare, then one could conclude that there's a reason for it.
I don't think it's a long step to determine why that might be. Additionally if that is the case, then why would there be any experimentation with these things overland in the United States?
QUOTE
the one guy provided photographs of unusual patterns being flown and trails dispersing in to clouds well there are widespread reports of this activity all over the Us he is not alone.The guy also never disputed that they were contrails.he posted them in reponse to "normal" flight traffic patterns.he questioned as to whether anyone though these to be "normal" flight patterns in a rural area.you all mugged him for the "proof" of something nefarious he never made any claims to such only that there was something unusual happening
What were provided were photographs of rather usual contrail patterns.
The dispersion of contrails varies widely depending on conditions, and that has been explained. It was also pointed out that there are widespread reports of this sort of activity because this sort of phenomenon is widespread, happening thousands of time per day.
It was also explained that jet routes are voluminous and cross almost everywhere, including rural areas.
The point of this is that he did in fact seem to claim something unusual was happening. However, none of the material presented indicated any such thing, but rather supported normal phenomena associated with jet aircraft exhaust at high altitude.
If one wishes to contend that something unusual is happening, I think it encumbent to show something that would support the hypothesis. Discussions of Government programs, photographs of perfectly normal looking contrail patterns, don't really do that.
The premise here is that chemtrails have not been substantiated. It may be a belief, and that belief is generally centered on a fundamental mis-trust of government. But from a scientific standpoint, there is no proof.
Anyway, enough of that, and welcome to the board!
i don't know why you all have a hard time believing in these chem trails. its a non classified military FACT that they have ADMITTED TO DOING.
One example was the test spraying from Sept. 20-26, 1950 of bacillus globigi and syraceus maracezens over 117 square miles of the San Francisco area, causing pneumonia-like infections in many of the residents. The family of one elderly man who died in the test sued the government, but lost. To this day, syraceus is a leading cause of death among the elderly in the San Francisco area.
this is them admitting to spraying over cities before, so whats so hard to believe about them still doing it and not telling us? if you go to this website, it will explain a lot better. any questions PM me.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/aids.html
One example was the test spraying from Sept. 20-26, 1950 of bacillus globigi and syraceus maracezens over 117 square miles of the San Francisco area, causing pneumonia-like infections in many of the residents. The family of one elderly man who died in the test sued the government, but lost. To this day, syraceus is a leading cause of death among the elderly in the San Francisco area.
this is them admitting to spraying over cities before, so whats so hard to believe about them still doing it and not telling us? if you go to this website, it will explain a lot better. any questions PM me.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/aids.html
In that case, when one is spraying a biological mix and wants it to have any effect, it is done at altitudes of less than 5,000 feet. Usually less than 2,000 feet. The trails being discussed here are from commercial airliners at altitudes over 25,000 feet. At that altitude it doesn't matter what they might release as it will dissipate to nothing by the time it reaches the ground. Plus it would be hard to aim as it might take weeks for anything to reach the ground.
QUOTE(undersquiggle @ Feb 3 2007, 10:25 AM) [snapback]1528064[/snapback]
i don't know why you all have a hard time believing in these chem trails. its a non classified military FACT that they have ADMITTED TO DOING.
One example was the test spraying from Sept. 20-26, 1950 of bacillus globigi and syraceus maracezens over 117 square miles of the San Francisco area, causing pneumonia-like infections in many of the residents. The family of one elderly man who died in the test sued the government, but lost. To this day, syraceus is a leading cause of death among the elderly in the San Francisco area.
this is them admitting to spraying over cities before, so whats so hard to believe about them still doing it and not telling us? if you go to this website, it will explain a lot better. any questions PM me.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/aids.html
One example was the test spraying from Sept. 20-26, 1950 of bacillus globigi and syraceus maracezens over 117 square miles of the San Francisco area, causing pneumonia-like infections in many of the residents. The family of one elderly man who died in the test sued the government, but lost. To this day, syraceus is a leading cause of death among the elderly in the San Francisco area.
this is them admitting to spraying over cities before, so whats so hard to believe about them still doing it and not telling us? if you go to this website, it will explain a lot better. any questions PM me.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/aids.html
As frenat said, this allegation has nothing to do with the discussion regarding "chemtrails".
Additionally, the link provided sends one to a CT site. This immediately places the content under scrutiny by reasonable people, because to think there's not a bias associated with it would be folly.
I'd be willing to bet that actual research into this would reveal something completely different...for instance, bacillus globigi(BG) was used in the 1960s by DOD tests involving analysis of biochemical agent dispersion compared to meteorologic models...tests conducted out in the Pacific, far from populated areas, with BG, a biological dispersant which is not associated with any adverse health effects to healthy individuals. I'd be willing to bet that this so-called 1950's project was a creative manipulation of facts and fiction, for the purposes of supporting an agenda...
Oddly, I can't find a single reference to syraceus...save in assocition with the linked article. I'm betting I know why.
QUOTE
MID is actually \\\"crotchety\\\", not cocky.
Just ask aqautus!
If you read carefully, I think you\\\'ll see the problem was that rocker...wasn\\\'t being exactly clear in what he was implying.
I realize he knows what contrails are, and that they exist. I also realize he seems to think that some of these planes are being used for some secret research and experimentation.
From what i was reading in this posting,I found that Rocker was fairly clear in the fact that there are contrails and that there are no real \\\"Chemtrails\\\". what i read from the postings were that somehow the Contrail issues is being used to divert attention from what some are seeing and reporting and CALLING Chemtrails. The guy made a clear distinction that he felt there were no such thing as ACTUAL chemtrails. rather he poised some technological research being conducted that are being erroneously reprted as \\\"chemtrails\\\"
The point is that there is an hypothesis presented, but no proof it. Thus, no one can draw a conclusion.
It is really very much like the current furor over \\\"global warming\\\", for which various consensi emerge. However, that in no way means that it is a proof. A consensus is meaningless in science. It means that some people agree on a hypothesis. It does not however succeed in proving the hypothesis.
Yes You are correct the guy introduced a hypothesis as well as some clear information to support such. I myself did not see anywhere that he claimed to have the truth,or that this was truth. What i saw was a guy presenting his theory and information.He didnt say he was right. he didnt say you were wrong. when it comes to Global warming there are RHEAMS of proof that it is in fact occurring it has ben admitted by virtually every accredited scientist that has been asked. Also your very own Government and president have admitted its existence and the fact that is accelerating far faster than originall thought. I find this comparison incongruent with the discussion at hand.
why are we \\\"changing\\\" the subject? to illustrate your point? well actually im not so sure that you have been able to o that based on scientific proof concerning Global warming
I said he hasn\\\'t proved his idea. He is merely proposing a hypothesis. There is no evidence in support of the hypothesis as a provable fact. Information from many areas about programs that may well exist is not proof. It merely supports the hypothesis. There is a difference between that and proving the hypothesis.
Again I myself did not read anywhere that any of these folks Stated that they had Proven anything? what they clearly stated was what they had been wintessing as well as alot of different data they had read on the subject,from what i have seen in this posting we are about 50/50 here some have actual information that is pointing To what MAY in fact be happening.Others have fallen headlong for the \\\"conspiratorial\\\" aspects of this complex issue.I do not believe there is a \\\"smoking gun\\\" of proof.But i also dont believe that mainstream news and persons such as your self have provided any PROOF to the contrary. You Continue to mention Contrails the man that seemed to have the most in depth views in this thread has repeatedly said that Contrails exist,they are Normally occurring . but he felt there was more....why do you fixate on things he never said?
You see, this is all about logic.
This thread is about \\\"chemtrails\\\". What people are talking about are contrails. Now, if there are references to alleged \\\"chgemtrails\\\" in senate bills as being banned for use in warfare, then one could conclude that there\\\'s a reason for it.
what i see is the posting is \\\"titled\\\" chemtrails, I see that some of the posters have simply fallen for the internet tripe designed to divert attention. But what i have also seen are more than one individual who have taken this several steps further,and deeper only to be ridiculed and have words put in theyre mouths.There were CLEAR terms that referred to \\\"chemtrails \\\" in 2 senate Bills .....as the controversy surrounding this issue grew the wording was stricken from the record and re-written. the chemtrails they referred to in these senate bills were tied to Biological warfare. something that D.A.R.P.A. as one poster said is in fact working on....it is de-classified and readily availible in the L.O.C.
I don\\\'t think it\\\'s a long step to determine why that might be. Additionally if that is the case, then why would there be any experimentation with these things overland in the United States?
What were provided were photographs of rather usual contrail patterns.
The dispersion of contrails varies widely depending on conditions, and that has been explained. It was also pointed out that there are widespread reports of this sort of activity because this sort of phenomenon is widespread, happening thousands of time per day.
So it is of YOUR OPINION that the photographed evidence provided in this postin are of the \\\"USUAL\\\" variety? Well we thank you for your opinion on that matter. As i see the photographs the first one to strike me of course is the largest picture,the one with a \\\"tic-tac-toe grid in it.I myself have seen this pattern maybe 6 or seven times in different geographical areas of the Unite States.I am sorry But How is it that THIS IS A NORMAL contrail pattern? tic tac toe? do you really expect folks to believe this to be a NORMAL flight pattern? Im sorry but i find that Rather hard to swallow.I also have seen many different \\\"designs\\\" left by jet contrails some like those in the pictures .My personal experience and what i have been watching does not appear by any stretch to be normal contrail patterns.I have seen regular contrails as well as these others many of them occur on the same days at the same times.
It was also explained that jet routes are voluminous and cross almost everywhere, including rural areas.
Jet routes are Voluminous there are many many patterns and as someone mentioned they are generally square or rectangular. yes rural areas do recieve air traffic i dont belive anybod was trying to dispute that fact. what i saw some people saying is that in theyre areas where they grew up all theyre lives some of the \\\"new\\\" patterns make absolutly no sense. why are they flying tic tac toes and X pattarns in the middle of nowhere? and why is it there seems to be a pattern of time of day and weather fronts connected to the traffic? There are many days when atmospheric conditions are not present to support contrails yet there they are.Some of the patterns i have witnessed as well as what many many people have been posting in many online forums suggest something other than natural occurring contrails.
The point of this is that he did in fact seem to claim something unusual was happening. However, none of the material presented indicated any such thing, but rather supported normal phenomena associated with jet aircraft exhaust at high altitude.
I feel that many of the photographs did in fact show something other than Normal traffic patterns and contrails. Also several of the people here had provided some information that clearly supports something other than normal condensation and ice crystals. so there are many differenig points of opinion i feel that many of the points raised here are valuable enough to support further discussion and further exploration.That is My opinion
If one wishes to contend that something unusual is happening, I think it encumbent to show something that would support the hypothesis. Discussions of Government programs, photographs of perfectly normal looking contrail patterns, don\\\'t really do that.
I think by people posting theyre personal observations coupled with photographic evidence is indeed bringing forth data to support theyre hypothesis. None of the posters claimed Proof,None of them claimed they were right and anyone was wrong? what they did was present personal experience,photographic proof of what they had witnesses as well as providing some information they had gathered that would certainly lend some creedance to theyre convictions.the thought being rather than being jumped tht others may investigate that information before responding to them.At this point i see that YOU yourself have provided nothing but insinuation, your own opinion as well as a smattering of insults. Really it seems to me that some of the others have provided compelling enough info to warrant a second look and so i shall
The premise here is that chemtrails have not been substantiated. It may be a belief, and that belief is generally centered on a fundamental mis-trust of government. But from a scientific standpoint, there is no proof.
Anyway, enough of that, and welcome to the board!
I would tend to agree with you only a small percentage on this assesment of what has happened in this posting.some people have indeed tryed to \\\"prove\\\" the existence of some dangerous scary thing \\\"Chemtrails\\\" and perhaps yes they have failed in part due to theyre being stuck on the disinformation so widely availible on this subject.While others in the post have Certainly tried to distance themselves by accepting the \\\"techinicality\\\" that kills most theory the fact that there are NO CHEMTRAILS ......not in the sense they wish to find BUT in FACT there are only CONTRAILS,yet some of them indeed contro; more than just Moisure and ice crystals.The problem being is that you all dont want to see the difference in the two types of people reponding.instead many times the easy button is used.insults and degradation.All the while never giving information or observation to support that theory
it has been an interesting read i hope you all enjoy many more postings on this currently evolving issue
Cheers
Just ask aqautus!
If you read carefully, I think you\\\'ll see the problem was that rocker...wasn\\\'t being exactly clear in what he was implying.
I realize he knows what contrails are, and that they exist. I also realize he seems to think that some of these planes are being used for some secret research and experimentation.
From what i was reading in this posting,I found that Rocker was fairly clear in the fact that there are contrails and that there are no real \\\"Chemtrails\\\". what i read from the postings were that somehow the Contrail issues is being used to divert attention from what some are seeing and reporting and CALLING Chemtrails. The guy made a clear distinction that he felt there were no such thing as ACTUAL chemtrails. rather he poised some technological research being conducted that are being erroneously reprted as \\\"chemtrails\\\"
The point is that there is an hypothesis presented, but no proof it. Thus, no one can draw a conclusion.
It is really very much like the current furor over \\\"global warming\\\", for which various consensi emerge. However, that in no way means that it is a proof. A consensus is meaningless in science. It means that some people agree on a hypothesis. It does not however succeed in proving the hypothesis.
Yes You are correct the guy introduced a hypothesis as well as some clear information to support such. I myself did not see anywhere that he claimed to have the truth,or that this was truth. What i saw was a guy presenting his theory and information.He didnt say he was right. he didnt say you were wrong. when it comes to Global warming there are RHEAMS of proof that it is in fact occurring it has ben admitted by virtually every accredited scientist that has been asked. Also your very own Government and president have admitted its existence and the fact that is accelerating far faster than originall thought. I find this comparison incongruent with the discussion at hand.
why are we \\\"changing\\\" the subject? to illustrate your point? well actually im not so sure that you have been able to o that based on scientific proof concerning Global warming
I said he hasn\\\'t proved his idea. He is merely proposing a hypothesis. There is no evidence in support of the hypothesis as a provable fact. Information from many areas about programs that may well exist is not proof. It merely supports the hypothesis. There is a difference between that and proving the hypothesis.
Again I myself did not read anywhere that any of these folks Stated that they had Proven anything? what they clearly stated was what they had been wintessing as well as alot of different data they had read on the subject,from what i have seen in this posting we are about 50/50 here some have actual information that is pointing To what MAY in fact be happening.Others have fallen headlong for the \\\"conspiratorial\\\" aspects of this complex issue.I do not believe there is a \\\"smoking gun\\\" of proof.But i also dont believe that mainstream news and persons such as your self have provided any PROOF to the contrary. You Continue to mention Contrails the man that seemed to have the most in depth views in this thread has repeatedly said that Contrails exist,they are Normally occurring . but he felt there was more....why do you fixate on things he never said?
You see, this is all about logic.
This thread is about \\\"chemtrails\\\". What people are talking about are contrails. Now, if there are references to alleged \\\"chgemtrails\\\" in senate bills as being banned for use in warfare, then one could conclude that there\\\'s a reason for it.
what i see is the posting is \\\"titled\\\" chemtrails, I see that some of the posters have simply fallen for the internet tripe designed to divert attention. But what i have also seen are more than one individual who have taken this several steps further,and deeper only to be ridiculed and have words put in theyre mouths.There were CLEAR terms that referred to \\\"chemtrails \\\" in 2 senate Bills .....as the controversy surrounding this issue grew the wording was stricken from the record and re-written. the chemtrails they referred to in these senate bills were tied to Biological warfare. something that D.A.R.P.A. as one poster said is in fact working on....it is de-classified and readily availible in the L.O.C.
I don\\\'t think it\\\'s a long step to determine why that might be. Additionally if that is the case, then why would there be any experimentation with these things overland in the United States?
What were provided were photographs of rather usual contrail patterns.
The dispersion of contrails varies widely depending on conditions, and that has been explained. It was also pointed out that there are widespread reports of this sort of activity because this sort of phenomenon is widespread, happening thousands of time per day.
So it is of YOUR OPINION that the photographed evidence provided in this postin are of the \\\"USUAL\\\" variety? Well we thank you for your opinion on that matter. As i see the photographs the first one to strike me of course is the largest picture,the one with a \\\"tic-tac-toe grid in it.I myself have seen this pattern maybe 6 or seven times in different geographical areas of the Unite States.I am sorry But How is it that THIS IS A NORMAL contrail pattern? tic tac toe? do you really expect folks to believe this to be a NORMAL flight pattern? Im sorry but i find that Rather hard to swallow.I also have seen many different \\\"designs\\\" left by jet contrails some like those in the pictures .My personal experience and what i have been watching does not appear by any stretch to be normal contrail patterns.I have seen regular contrails as well as these others many of them occur on the same days at the same times.
It was also explained that jet routes are voluminous and cross almost everywhere, including rural areas.
Jet routes are Voluminous there are many many patterns and as someone mentioned they are generally square or rectangular. yes rural areas do recieve air traffic i dont belive anybod was trying to dispute that fact. what i saw some people saying is that in theyre areas where they grew up all theyre lives some of the \\\"new\\\" patterns make absolutly no sense. why are they flying tic tac toes and X pattarns in the middle of nowhere? and why is it there seems to be a pattern of time of day and weather fronts connected to the traffic? There are many days when atmospheric conditions are not present to support contrails yet there they are.Some of the patterns i have witnessed as well as what many many people have been posting in many online forums suggest something other than natural occurring contrails.
The point of this is that he did in fact seem to claim something unusual was happening. However, none of the material presented indicated any such thing, but rather supported normal phenomena associated with jet aircraft exhaust at high altitude.
I feel that many of the photographs did in fact show something other than Normal traffic patterns and contrails. Also several of the people here had provided some information that clearly supports something other than normal condensation and ice crystals. so there are many differenig points of opinion i feel that many of the points raised here are valuable enough to support further discussion and further exploration.That is My opinion
If one wishes to contend that something unusual is happening, I think it encumbent to show something that would support the hypothesis. Discussions of Government programs, photographs of perfectly normal looking contrail patterns, don\\\'t really do that.
I think by people posting theyre personal observations coupled with photographic evidence is indeed bringing forth data to support theyre hypothesis. None of the posters claimed Proof,None of them claimed they were right and anyone was wrong? what they did was present personal experience,photographic proof of what they had witnesses as well as providing some information they had gathered that would certainly lend some creedance to theyre convictions.the thought being rather than being jumped tht others may investigate that information before responding to them.At this point i see that YOU yourself have provided nothing but insinuation, your own opinion as well as a smattering of insults. Really it seems to me that some of the others have provided compelling enough info to warrant a second look and so i shall
The premise here is that chemtrails have not been substantiated. It may be a belief, and that belief is generally centered on a fundamental mis-trust of government. But from a scientific standpoint, there is no proof.
Anyway, enough of that, and welcome to the board!
I would tend to agree with you only a small percentage on this assesment of what has happened in this posting.some people have indeed tryed to \\\"prove\\\" the existence of some dangerous scary thing \\\"Chemtrails\\\" and perhaps yes they have failed in part due to theyre being stuck on the disinformation so widely availible on this subject.While others in the post have Certainly tried to distance themselves by accepting the \\\"techinicality\\\" that kills most theory the fact that there are NO CHEMTRAILS ......not in the sense they wish to find BUT in FACT there are only CONTRAILS,yet some of them indeed contro; more than just Moisure and ice crystals.The problem being is that you all dont want to see the difference in the two types of people reponding.instead many times the easy button is used.insults and degradation.All the while never giving information or observation to support that theory
it has been an interesting read i hope you all enjoy many more postings on this currently evolving issue
Cheers
QUOTE(MID @ Feb 3 2007, 01:47 PM) [snapback]1528279[/snapback]
Oddly, I can't find a single reference to syraceus...save in assocition with the linked article. I'm betting I know why.
Not surprisingly, you can't find any references to "syraceus maracezens" ... because it doesn't exist. I did a similar search to yours and found only conspiracy websites parroting the same story. If any of these sites had bothered doing any real research, they would have found the bacteria in question is actually Serratia marcescens. It was indeed used as a simulant in biological warfare testing in the 1950's because it's extremely common and was thought to be completely harmless to humans. In fact, it was also used as a tracer in medical and dental research for the same reason. It wasn't until the late 1960's that it became clear that S. marcescens wasn't as harmless as first thought. See here for a reference to its use in dental research and initial warnings of potential risks. The full pdf text makes it clear that the reference to aerosol tracer studies is relating to dental research, not military use. Finally, a quick look at the Army's own report to Congress (U.S. Army Activity in the U.S. Biological Warfare Programs) shows that the first use of S. marcescens as a test simulant was at the Pentagon in 1949 (see also here). If they thought there was any risk from this material, would the Army really spread it throughout their own headquarters?
Now, back on topic. Could someone be spraying the globe with mysterious chemicals from high-flying aircraft? Sure, it's possible but THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO REAL EVIDENCE FOR THIS. The contrails shown in this thread are just normal condensation trails from hot engine exhaust mixing with the cold atmosphere. They can be found everywhere in the world where aircraft fly, including over the middle of the ocean. To see just how busy the skies over the United States can be, take a look at these charts (link). Each red dot is an IFR aircraft in flight over the U.S. If you have Quicktime installed, watch the animation linked at the top of the page. There are a LOT of aircraft flying, even in the middle of the night.
A great NASA resource for understanding contrails can be found here. This site has some excellent examples of persistent contrails and contrail-triggered cirrus cloud formation. It also has helpful instructions for using NASA satellite resources to track contrail activity over a given area. Pretty darned nice of the government to help the public monitor its own top-secret chemtrail spraying activity!
QUOTE
Not surprisingly, you can\\\'t find any references to \\\"syraceus maracezens\\\" ... because it doesn\\\'t exist. I did a similar search to yours and found only conspiracy websites parroting the same story. If any of these sites had bothered doing any real research, they would have found the bacteria in question is actually Serratia marcescens. It was indeed used as a simulant in biological warfare testing in the 1950\\\'s because it\\\'s extremely common and was thought to be completely harmless to humans. In fact, it was also used as a tracer in medical and dental research for the same reason. It wasn\\\'t until the late 1960\\\'s that it became clear that S. marcescens wasn\\\'t as harmless as first thought. See here for a reference to its use in dental research and initial warnings of potential risks. The full pdf text makes it clear that the reference to aerosol tracer studies is relating to dental research, not military use. Finally, a quick look at the Army\\\'s own report to Congress (U.S. Army Activity in the U.S. Biological Warfare Programs) shows that the first use of S. marcescens as a test simulant was at the Pentagon in 1949 (see also here). If they thought there was any risk from this material, would the Army really spread it throughout their own headquarters?
Excellent researching kudos and as you say it has nothing to do with the subject at hand
it simply muddies the waters further and complicates the issue further.
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Now, back on topic. Could someone be spraying the globe with mysterious chemicals from high-flying aircraft? Sure, it\\\'s possible but THERE\\\'S ABSOLUTELY NO REAL EVIDENCE FOR THIS.
The chemicals in use are not really chemicals but rather heavy metals and Barium salts yes they have chemical compounds but they are not being administered for some bilogical plot. several ahve been clear here in differentiating the seperate issues again this too is an \\\"attempt\\\" to again muddy waters...the metals are not being used to harm mankind or in any sort of plot. they are apart of several ongoing experiments that are being conducted I as others have eluded to that here. You all casually dismiss tham as nothing. they are happening..the chemicals are not mysterious and from what i have seen most here are not claining so either
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The contrails shown in this thread are just normal condensation trails from hot engine exhaust mixing with the cold atmosphere. They can be found everywhere in the world where aircraft fly, including over the middle of the ocean.
Again myself Rocker and several others here have Continued to AGREE with you that CONTRAILS are normal ,and that they do OCCUR, and yes they can be found all over the world Nobody here disputes what you all keep going over and over.Can you tell me EXACTLY WHY there are planes flying and making tic tac toe patterns? do you have the defenitive answer to that? like the photo shown.How about the Grid patterns shown..why exactly are there planes flying tose patterns all in the span of an hour? and then why do they fly and Make A\\\'s and X\\\'s and sveral of them all in repeating patterns in the same air space in an hour ? specifics please? what air traffic pattern EXACTLY are they following?
QUOTE
To see just how busy the skies over the United States can be, take a look at these charts (link). Each red dot is an IFR aircraft in flight over the U.S. If you have Quicktime installed, watch the animation linked at the top of the page. There are a LOT of aircraft flying, even in the middle of the night.
Yes most of us in this post have REPEATEDLY said that CONTRAILS ARE REAL they occur daily thy are NORMAL you can see the in sattelite imagery .......why you all are repeating thisover and over i cant figure out.
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A great NASA resource for understanding contrails can be found here. This site has some excellent examples of persistent contrails and contrail-triggered cirrus cloud formation. It also has helpful instructions for using NASA satellite resources to track contrail activity over a given area. Pretty darned nice of the government to help the public monitor its own top-secret chemtrail spraying activity!
Pretty well EVERY SINGLE \\\"de-bunker\\\" that i have ever met online including yourself has brought this \\\"ONE\\\" singualr ONE website to the discussion.There is almost NEVER another site brought up because this is the primary googled site the NASA lark website.Ahem well sir i find that more than coincidental and actually laughable i could have bet money that one of you if not more of you would bring this EXACT website to the mix. I have seen it a dozen times now I find it actually comical they are enlisting the \\\"help\\\" of children in \\\"playing\\\" a game by counting the contrails.....for like the Hundredth time NOBODY is DENYING contrails............you just cant seem to get past that \\\"technicality\\\" which the majority of us have no issue with you are redundantly saying over and over.Contrails exist.contrails are normal here are good pictures of contrails NASA has pictures of contrails...etc etc etc. dont you understand we arent saying there arent contrails you need to move beyond that stumbling block as many of you cannot seem to get past that
thanks
Jimmy Phelps
QUOTE
Oddly, I can't find a single reference to syraceus...save in assocition with the linked article. I'm betting I know why.
More bologna. All it takes is ONE article to make it on the web and from there it gets distorted. It is NOT anyone admitting to anything as some have described it.
The only experiment that I've seen info on regarding the real release of Barium it was done at an altitude greater than 100,000 feet by a rocket. It is not done at the altitudes where one finds contrails because metals like barium and aluminum would likely foul the engines of the many many planes that would have to fly through it. It is for this same reason that I can say they are not adding any metals to commercial or military jet fuel. It would hurt any engines that it went through.
I guess if you cut thru all this fluff..you ask is they're any detrimental affects on texas?...I think it's mostly paranoia..texas beef is sweet.
Just a bit of info on the bacteria issue: Serratia marcescens is a member of the family Enterobacteriaceae, and is indeed responsible for a variety of common human infections. However, Bacillus globigii isn't very dangerous at all, it's often used in biological studies as a replacement for more pathogenic bacteria. I suspect that it would be Bacillus globigii that would have been used in any type of testing regarding biochemical agent dispersion.
QUOTE(jimmyphelps @ Feb 3 2007, 05:31 PM) [snapback]1528501[/snapback]
Again myself Rocker and several others here have Continued to AGREE with you that CONTRAILS are normal ,and that they do OCCUR, and yes they can be found all over the world Nobody here disputes what you all keep going over and over.Can you tell me EXACTLY WHY there are planes flying and making tic tac toe patterns? do you have the defenitive answer to that? like the photo shown.How about the Grid patterns shown..why exactly are there planes flying tose patterns all in the span of an hour? and then why do they fly and Make A\\\'s and X\\\'s and sveral of them all in repeating patterns in the same air space in an hour ? specifics please? what air traffic pattern EXACTLY are they following?
So, you agree that the contrails themselves are common and appear perfectly normal, but the patterns in which they appear are unusual and are evidence of a secret project? Then let's examine the patterns. I'll refer you back to MID's post 139 for a great description of the jet route system. These routes cover the U.S. (and other countries) like a road system. Like a road system, there are many intersections where the routes come together and branch off in different directions. Planes often cross paths at these intersections and sometimes turn from one route to another. Here's an example of the jet route system over Texas:
The green, yellow, and orange lines are all jet routes. This is just a small portion of the maze of routes that connect throughout the nation. As MID explained, planes follow these routes at different altitudes and different offsets, so it's not unusual to see multiple aircraft following the same basic path, but in different directions or parallel lines. Watch this video for a good example of this. Here are four commercial aircraft all following the same basic route at the same time, but at different altitudes and offsets: (YouTube link)
Now, how do we end up with a tic-tac-toe pattern like this (posted earlier by Rokerijdude11)?
Simple. Picture two aircraft following jet routes that intersect at some point. They pass the intersection at different altitudes and/or slightly different times, but from the ground their crossing contrails create an X in the sky. Now add in some wind at altitude. The wind causes the contrails to drift away from the jet routes, just like clouds moving across the sky. A few minutes later, another pair of aircraft come along, following the same two crossing routes. Their new contrails also form an X at the intersection, but it's offset from the first X because of the wind. Voila! A tic-tac-toe pattern:
QUOTE(jimmyphelps @ Feb 3 2007, 05:31 PM) [snapback]1528501[/snapback]
Pretty well EVERY SINGLE \\\"de-bunker\\\" that i have ever met online including yourself has brought this \\\"ONE\\\" singualr ONE website to the discussion.There is almost NEVER another site brought up because this is the primary googled site the NASA lark website.Ahem well sir i find that more than coincidental and actually laughable i could have bet money that one of you if not more of you would bring this EXACT website to the mix. I have seen it a dozen times now I find it actually comical they are enlisting the \\\"help\\\" of children in \\\"playing\\\" a game by counting the contrails.....for like the Hundredth time NOBODY is DENYING contrails............you just cant seem to get past that \\\"technicality\\\" which the majority of us have no issue with you are redundantly saying over and over.Contrails exist.contrails are normal here are good pictures of contrails NASA has pictures of contrails...etc etc etc. dont you understand we arent saying there arent contrails you need to move beyond that stumbling block as many of you cannot seem to get past that
I, too, find it "more than coincidental" that the NASA contrail site is often mentioned in chemtrail discussions. It's an excellent resource. It would be a shame not to make use of it.
Again, I'm glad we can agree that the contrails themselves are not unusual. So other than your opinion that the contrail patterns are suspicious, do you have any evidence that there is a world-wide secret spraying program underway involving enormous numbers of high-flying aircraft? If commercial aircraft are being used, how do they get away with not flying their normal routes? If they're military aircraft, what type are they and where are they all coming from?
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So, you agree that the contrails themselves are common and appear perfectly normal, but the patterns in which they appear are unusual and are evidence of a secret project? Then let\'s examine the patterns. I\'ll refer you back to MID\'s post
What i said is they are photos to support what we are witnessing in the skies above us. the projects actually arent secret ive never said they were what i said is that there were several experiments that are being conducted,one of which has been recently talked about quite a bit. the trails pictures are presented to back the persons eyewitness accounts
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139 for a great description of the jet route system. These routes cover the U.S. (and other countries) like a road system. Like a road system, there are many intersections where the routes come together and branch off in different directions. Planes often cross paths at these intersections and sometimes turn from one route to another. Here\'s an example of the jet route system over Texas:
yes sir there is a jet route system i am aware of that also and discussed it in my posting earlier. yes i see your map .i particularly like how it suits your story in its miniaturized version.Most people will not wrap theyre minds around the fact that these lines demonstrated in the map are way larger than represented. as they are now in the small form they really do make a good correlation to some of the photos.but it is simply a ratio issue and most wont make the connection kudos on that play
QUOTE
The green, yellow, and orange lines are all jet routes. This is just a small portion of the maze of routes that connect throughout the nation. As MID explained, planes follow these routes at different altitudes and different offsets, so it\'s not unusual to see multiple aircraft following the same basic path, but in different directions or parallel lines. Watch this video for a good example of this. Here are four commercial aircraft all following the same basic route at the same time, but at different altitudes and offsets: (YouTube link)
Again you go back to the mechanics of how contrails are formed .yet we have already determined that we understand these principles.these principles you have provided are all fine and they are sound theory.But they do not support what i MYSELF have been witnessing in the skies above me particularly where i live .its not just the fact that contrails are being formed that is not my angle here certainly it is why SOME of them being used for other purposes
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Now, how do we end up with a tic-tac-toe pattern like this (posted earlier by Rokerijdude11)?
Simple. Picture two aircraft following jet routes that intersect at some point. They pass the intersection at different altitudes and/or slightly different times, but from the ground their crossing contrails create an X in the sky. Now add in some wind at altitude. The wind causes the contrails to drift away from the jet routes, just like clouds moving across the sky. A few minutes later, another pair of aircraft come along, following the same two crossing routes. Their new contrails also form an X at the intersection, but it\'s offset from the first X because of the wind. Voila! A tic-tac-toe pattern:
hmmmm very convincing..............to a third grade student. Again you explain the science and the mechanics of how the contrails are formed and why they cross etc .
But you fails to answer the question that has been asked. again you go back to there are contrails.this id how they work. why are planes flying these patterns before My eyes
in plain acrobatic type flying ? pretaining to the grids and shapes i have watched myself as they are layed it does not fall into what you are describing im afraid.nice way to sidestep the issue to twist it typical.
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I, too, find it \"more than coincidental\" that the NASA contrail site is often mentioned in chemtrail discussions. It\'s an excellent resource. It would be a shame not to make use of it.
No sir it actually isnt that fine of a resource, but it sure seems to be the de-bunkers best friend.Even seventh grade science books are teaching our children about chemtrails for global warming abatement. yet some of you cling to the \"status\" quo .particularly individuals like yourself. Count the Contrails .propoganda they even have in childrens cartoons, chemtrails in the skies in the backround. you have come here with your best game but still i leave with more than doubt
as you have nothing but rhetoric to offer, not even anything original. pure rhetoric its like its in some sort of \"playbook\"
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Again, I\'m glad we can agree that the contrails themselves are not unusual. So other than your opinion that the contrail patterns are suspicious, do you have any evidence that there is a world-wide secret spraying program underway involving enormous numbers of high-flying aircraft?
Is that YOUR theory? that its a world wide SECRET program? I know i never said it was worldwide program, and to the contray i never said it was secret either.I never said it was a single thing .I never said i was right or you wrong.enormous numbers of high flying aircraft? hmmmmm i dont recall that being what i said either.although the Air force as well as many privat entities are suited for aeresol spraying. weather modification seeding is very similar to what i am describing.
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If commercial aircraft are being used, how do they get away with not flying their normal routes?
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If they\'re military aircraft, what type are they and where are they all coming from?
You of course are asking of me a question i obviously cannot answer.I find that very telling of your intentions
