No what I was referring to there Mr Mid, was that i was Done with why roker had been banned.... that was now a moot point as you all had explained it to me.
and I was doing as suggested moving back on to the point of the thread ,something you seem to be having difficulty with?
sp you have COMPLETLY mis-represented what i said I want that on the record

here is a small blurb concerning some of the variety of weapons systems and other items currently being tested

this ifo was taken from:http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20040501.htm




A glimpse into new death technologies under construction4 is in legislation introduced by Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinch. His unsuccessful Space Preservation Act of 2001 was intended to ban space deployment of:

* electronic, psychotronic and information weaponry

* high altitude ultra low frequency weapons

* plasma, electromagnetic, sonic and ultrasonic weapons

* laser weapons

* strategic, theater, tactical or extraterrestrial weapons

* chemical biological, environmental climate or tectonic weapons

* chemtrails (this item was stricken from a later version, suggesting duress)

In their quest to remain top dog in the kill chain, the purveyors of perpetual war have deliberately dimmed earth’s life-giving sunlight5 and reduced atmospheric visibility6 with lung-clogging particulates and polymers. This ecological terrorism has severely compromised public health, according to thousands of testimonials. Years of mass appeals to legislators, media and military officials for information, and for cessation of catastrophic atmospheric degradation, have fallen on deaf bureaucratic ears. Public awareness of what befalls us remains as murky as our skies because those "in the know" are muzzled by national secrecy laws and Americans have no authority to challenge matters of national security. Left to gather clues, we know this much so far:

1. At least part of the aerosol project has been dubbed Operation Cloverleaf,7 probably due to its multi-faceted operations, which include: weather modification, military communications, space weapons development, ozone and global warming research plus biological weaponry and detection testing.

2. Dumping tons of particulate matter from aircraft has geo-engineered our planetary atmosphere into a highly charged, electrically-conductive plasma useful for military projects.8 The air we breathe is laden with asbestos-sized synthetic fibers and toxic metals, including barium salts, aluminum, and reportedly, radioactive thorium.9 These materials act as electrolytes to enhance conductivity of military radar and radio waves.10 Poisonous on par with arsenic and a proven suppressant of the human immune system,11 atmospheric barium weakens human muscles, including those of the heart.12 Inhaled aluminum goes directly to the brain and medical specialists confirm that it causes oxidative stress within brain tissue, leading to formation of Alzheimer's like neurofibrillary tangles.13 Radioactive thorium is known to cause leukemia and other cancers.14

3. Only a small percentage of the military’s atmospheric modification projects are visibly obvious. What we can’t see is equally dangerous. The ionosphere, the earth and its inhabitants are continually bombarded with high frequency microwaves used to manipulate the charged atmosphere for weather modification, information gathering and for tectonic (earthquake-producing) weaponry.15 Independent chemtrail researcher Clifford Carnicom confirms that we are also continuously subjected to extremely low electromagnetic frequencies (ELF) pulsing at 4 hertz multiples, frequencies known to profoundly affect human biological and mental functioning.16

4. There is a well-documented biological component to continuously ongoing atmospheric studies in which nations and regions are furtively inoculated via specially designed delivery systems with combinations of viruses, bacteria, fungi, mycoplasma, desiccated blood cells and exotic biological markers so that testmasters can assess human, animal and plant response.17

Duress huh? And just how do you get that from the fact that it was dropped? There are a few other possibilities. Kucinich didn't write the act himself and later removed it when he found out what chemtrails are or are supposed to be. Or he did write it and others removed it thinking Kucinich is a nut. I personally favor the latter. In Kucinich's last bid for President he didn't even win the primary in the city he once was Mayor of. Many thought he was a nut then and many still do. But, that is still just a possibility.

Mr Nat. I did Not author the post, I presented a Blurb from it, with a link to the article from which it was taken.I dont get anything from that ???I didnt write it ,,,i was clear it was an excerpt. and posted a link, that question will have to be answered by its author.

Oh Yes Mr Nat the possibilities are almost limitless, as To WHY it was re-written. But the fact remains that "Chemtrails" was written in the original proposal.there is a reason for that Choice of word, no matter what the reason MAY have been to change it...


Well sir Mr. Nat we all thank you for your Opinions on the political ambitions of a man.what they have to do with the thread is questionable? but each is allowed theyre own musings. The article really had no bearing On anyones political aspirations, funny that you chose THAT of all things to nit pick....
Classic....... your an old school guy, more challenging, and not so insulting, they should have kept more of you..... the young guys are ruining your gig they are transparent and predictable

OK, I felt bad and decided to do MORE research and follow the thread some more.

The sources in the last link are questionable at best. This is all reported and reposted all over the web by what MOST people would consider extreme right wing conspiracy theorists, survivalists, etc. connected to the Idaho Observer as far as I can tell. Chemtrails are just one of many government conspiracies they cover, along with the New World Order, the impending martial law in America and so on. I just don't see the science here. Just because an "independent researcher" says it's so, does not mean it is. Sorry guys, I think your barking up the wrong tree here.

The chemtrail saga began in August 1997, when the late Dr. Edward Teller presented a paper prepared by the US government’s National Academy of Sciences to the 22nd International Seminar on Planetary Emergencies in Sicily. Teller predicted, “Increases in average world-wide temperature of the magnitude currently predicted can be canceled by preventing about 1% of incoming solar radiation” from reaching the Earth. “The total cost of such an enhanced scattering operation would probably be at most $1 billion per year.”

But chemtrails are wrecking the atmosphere.

Radar observations reported by Air Traffic Controllers tracking US air force tankers and their lingering chemical plumes over Edmonton, Canada and every major airport in the USA report specially sequestered altitudes for these chemical lay downs at 37,000 feet—right at the floor of the stratosphere, which until recently began about 13 kilometers above the surface of the Earth.

The 7-10 million tons of aluminum oxide Teller urged to be added to jet fuel as a protective “sunscreen” are being released into an ozone layer that, if compressed at sea level would be no thicker than the gap in a spark plug (approximately 0.1 inch thick). [www.ucsusa.org]

Exactly as Caldera’s models forecast, chemtrails are reflecting enough sunlight from this planet’s upper atmosphere to cool the stratosphere and form giant ice-clouds that concentrate megatons of long-lingering ozone-destroying chemicals. Finley has discovered that a 3-degrees Fahrenheit temperature drop per decade at an altitude of 40 km has resulted in “about a 10% cooling of the stratosphere.”

GOING UP
After a year or two, Finley said, millions of tons of aluminum oxide in chemtrails and solid-fuel rocket exhausts falls downward to form a new boundary layer between the troposphere and the stratosphere above. According to Finley, these aluminum oxide deposits are allowing the troposphere where we live, and where weather is formed, to push higher into a weakened stratosphere.

Storm clouds are characteristically flat on their “anvil” tops because they are hitting the bottom of stratosphere. As the stratosphere weakens, storm tops broaden and rise. As convection updrafts drill upwards from 13 to14 to 15 kilometers, more moisture is sucked higher, where, Finley explained, “incredibly low temperatures holds hail up there become baseball-size killer stuff”—just like the monster hail that hammered Arizona, stripping paint off cars and causing flash floods, in late July 2006.

During the past three decades, researchers have measured a cooling of the stratosphere and a warming of the lower troposphere. These changes could affect the height of the tropopause, the boundary between the troposphere and the stratosphere. Such a change could, in turn, affect the height of convection currents within the troposphere, such as those associated with thunderstorms, and could possibly affect the intensity of those storms. It might also alter the positions of the planet's jet streams and thus the movement of weather systems. [www.msc-smc.ec.gc.ca]

The upwards-expanding troposphere is especially invasive of the stratosphere in the hot tropics, Finley added, “where typhoons and hurricanes form.”

Comparing the chemtrail and shuttle-shredded ozone layer to “a tire being eroded to core,” Finley warned that an atmospheric “blowout” could be fatal to life on Earth.

First, what's with the Mr. Nat crap? I suspect you're doing it to be annoying or insulting or both. So which is it?

Second, as the link was not hyperlinked, it was easier to miss. I apologize. But my comments are still valid if not directed at you. Where did the author get the idea that "chemtrails" was removed under duress? It is an unfounded assumption much like the many other unfounded assumptions that pepper the entire "chemtrail" movement.

Why Mr Nat i am insulted. I am adressing you as proper by calling you Mr. if you had read any of my postings you can see i address everyone By Mr. Or Mrs. its polite.
it had no hidden meanings, and was not done to annoy, or insult you!! it is Proper to address people in this manner sir.maybe you need to have a bit more tack in your dealings with others? pardon me for being polite.




As you finally figured out by actually reading the whole post.I did Not author the post and it was but a SMALL blurb of a much much larger article that has a multitude of information that may be mined from it. as Usual you have chosen to, and are Stuck on the Minutest of details.......and continue to ASK me................to explain the authors Position? How on earth would you expect me to speak for the author? Ill tell you why it is a POOR attempt at YOU trying to make it appear that i dont have any answers..............any third grader can se through the chararade..why is it you "De-Bunkers" ill use the term lightly, always get stuck on minute details that really have nothing to do with overall "Big Picture"?
Its always these small technicalities you chose to rake over the coals so to speak .....


It speaks Volumes on what your true position really is.You all behave in exactly the same manner, it must have something to do with a training course.people like you are being discussed in another thread here in this forum.as a matter of fact even in this post.Ill say it to you again since you dont seem to understand.................The question you continue to ask and be hung up on.is a question you will have to ASK THE AUTHOR.as i said this was but a small sampling of a VERY large read on these issues. I do not have the desire to bicker with you over a question that i cannot answer............ask the author

or better yet why dont one of you TRY and bring forth something other than Opinion ,questions, and insults?? answer me that Mr. Nat
why is it none of you have Brought anything to the table ....at all? you have completely diregarded a link to 3 pages of information all because you disagree with one of the authors points.your position is very telling my friend. neither you Nor MID have been able to actuate any type of validated response to any of the data myself and others continue to bring here.you are ineffectual debaters thats for sure. and certainly cant seem to get past the "Surface"


well to each theyre own id guess

have a great day

Drop the "Mr. Nat" crap. There is no reason to believe that my username has anything to do with my real name nor is there any reason to believe that Nat would be an appropriate abbreviation. It should be clear from my previous post that it was not appreciated so I'll kindly ask again for you to drop it. I still maintain that you are doing it to be annoying or insulting or both as you have persisted after it was clear that it was not appreciated. If you really wanted to do it to be polite you should have used Mr. frenat as again, there is no reason to believe that Nat would be an appropriate abbreviation. If you want to call me something use the full username.

I already apologized for missing the link so you can drop that too. I also said that the question was then not directed at you so I'm not expecting you to answer anything. I don't expect you to speak for the author and I don't care whether you say anything at all. It is more of a rhetorical or thought question. You are coming off like you are trying to appear a victim and there has been no victimization

I really dont care what you think.My calling you Mr. is in NO way disrespectfull or meant to be such. Then if you dont like the abbreviation i shall Call you Mr. Frenat from this point forward, no abbreviation therefore no implied "hidden" meanings. Boy this really seems to have you mad, although why i am unsure .I clearly stated it was Not meant in disrespect, anyone can clearly see i address people here By Mr. frequently.why is this so important to you? I know it takes away from the post ,its a nice diversion from the subject at hand. you have really shown your colors today Mr Frenat.You never made it clear that it wasnt appreciated pal. you implied i was using it to someheow be demeaning or something.I CLEARLY STATED that was NOT the case.and here you are trying to lure me into the close the thread trap. sorry Im not taking the bait..so Mr Frenat

you shall be the Full name now since it seems to infuriate you so,,,,,what a sweet diversion from the subject material ,May i ask why is it that you CONTINUALLY change the subject? you are still ignoring the subject matter and YOURSELF are directing the post away from its origins.My only guess is to somehow get the post closed by continuing to be off topic..the topic was/is chemtrails and theyre probable/possible causes and effects in case you had forgotten ,Now Mr>Frenat would you like to attempt t stay on subject? or is this the best you have to bring to the table? so far you have done everything but discuss the topic..can you tell us why?

But Mr. frenat what then does this line of questioning mean?Dude your responses speak Volumes for you character and intent. Victim? No sir Mr Frenat Im not the Victim at this point i am The "VICTOR" as each and every time you chase this charade you show us all your colors


"

it certainly raed to me that you are still questioning the authors position.were you directly asking me ...of course not But the implication was Clear.... I never said anything to you about the hyperlink, other than after READING the post you saw it? What harm was there in saying that? I was not demeaning.nor was i implicating anything. Why are you and some others so darn angry when it comes to this subject? and why do you continue to direct the post away from the subject matter. 2 mods have requested we stay on topic .....actually you are one of them.....yet here we are Dilly Dallying over a few Minor points that actually have NOTHING to do with the subject? are you incapable of actual debate? or do you just chose to change the subject and nit pick things to keep the subject "Down" You tell Us sir?

what i clearly see is an attempt to push me "over the edge" in order to close the thread and somehow discredit my position. I have not gotten angry once, i have responded to everything that has come my way.I have provided information to support my position i have concurred with others positions all you have done is try and drag the post in the toilet....

I will have none of that Mr.Frenat

may we PLEASE move back to the subject of the posting?

This thread is in danger of:

Please keep it on track and refrain from personal bickering.
Thank you
Irish

Thank you VERY MUCH

i was wondering if anyone was going to step in and curb what has been occurring

as you can see i have been trying in vain to keep it on track i have requested we get back to the issue many times as have others in the thread


Thank you Mr. Irish

As recently as January 27th of this year there has been discussion of the White Paper theories developed by Dr edward Teller

this excerpt from the guardian was printed on the 27th

while i feel large parts of this article are mere dis-information several parts clearly refere to the teller sunscreen and its effectivness .one can easily summarize that if the US is urging scientist to do this there certainly has been some testing of the theory before imploring others to help in the effort




Washington urges scientists to develop ways to reflect sunlight as 'insurance'

David Adam, environment correspondent
Saturday January 27, 2007
The Guardian


linked-image
Smog above Phoenix, Arizona – US report suggests reflective dust could reduce warming. Photograph: Deirdre Hamill/AP

The US government wants the world's scientists to develop technology to block sunlight as a last-ditch way to halt global warming, the Guardian has learned. It says research into techniques such as giant mirrors in space or reflective dust pumped into the atmosphere would be "important insurance" against rising emissions, and has lobbied for such a strategy to be recommended by a major UN report on climate change, the first part of which will be published on Friday.

The US has also attempted to steer the UN report, prepared by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), away from conclusions that would support a new worldwide climate treaty based on binding targets to reduce emissions - as sought by Tony Blair. It has demanded a draft of the report be changed to emphasise the benefits of voluntary agreements and to include criticisms of the Kyoto Protocol, the existing treaty which the US administration opposes.
The final IPCC report, written by experts from across the world, will underpin international negotiations to devise a new emissions treaty to succeed Kyoto, the first phase of which expires in 2012. World governments were given a draft of the report last year and invited to comment.

The US response, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, says the idea of interfering with sunlight should be included in the summary for policymakers, the prominent chapter at the front of each IPCC report. It says: "Modifying solar radiance may be an important strategy if mitigation of emissions fails. Doing the R&D to estimate the consequences of applying such a strategy is important insurance that should be taken out. This is a very important possibility that should be considered."

Scientists have previously estimated that reflecting less than 1% of sunlight back into space could compensate for the warming generated by all greenhouse gases emitted since the industrial revolution. Possible techniques include putting a giant screen into orbit, thousands of tiny, shiny balloons, or microscopic sulphate droplets pumped into the high atmosphere to mimic the cooling effects of a volcanic eruption. The IPCC draft said such ideas were "speculative, uncosted and with potential unknown side-effects".

The US submission is based on the views of dozens of government officials and is accompanied by a letter signed by Harlan Watson, senior climate negotiator at the US state department. It complains the IPCC draft report is "Kyoto-centric" and it wants to include the work of economists who have reported "the degree to which the Kyoto framework is found wanting". It takes issue with a statement that "one weakness of the [Kyoto] protocol, however, is its non-ratificiation by some significant greenhouse gas emitters" and asks: "Is this the only weakness worth mentioning? Are there others?"

It also insists the wording on the ineffectiveness of voluntary agreements be altered to include "a number of them have had significant impacts" and complains that overall "the report tends to overstate or focus on the negative effects of climate change." It also wants more emphasis on responsibilities of the developing world.

The IPCC report is made up of three sections. The first, on the science of climate change, will be launched on Friday. Sections on the impact and mitigation of climate change - in which the US wants to include references to the sun-blocking technology - will follow later this year.

The likely contents of the report have been an open secret since the Bush administration posted its draft copy on the internet in April. Next week's science report will say there is a 90% chance that human activity is warming the planet, and that global average temperatures will rise another 1.5C to 5.8C this century depending on emissions. The US response shows it accepts these statements, but it disagrees with a more tentative conclusion that rising temperatures have made hurricanes more powerful.

· See the US document here in pdf format.

I think my first post on the subject where I called it crap should be evidence that it wasn't appreciated. That and the fact that I implied you were using it to be demeaning.
You stated it was not the case but persisted in using the term. I would actually prefer you don't even use Mr. because as stated before my username has nothing to do with my name and it is not needed.


I have stated my thoughts on the subject as early as the first few pages of the thread. If I care to comment further then I will. For now though I don't.

You claim to use "Mr." to be proper and polite then use dude and pal? It was my view that you were trying to appear a victim. If I am wrong then so be it.


I read the post the first and every subsequent time I looked at it. I missed the hyperlink and apologized. I commented on the part that was available. If you wold like to elicit comments on other parts, then why not post them here?

I am not a mod (at least not the last time I checked), nor have I ever commented on the need to stay on topic (although we should and this will be my last post on this tangent). Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else?


As I stated before, I have stated my thoughts on the subject as early as the first few pages of the thread. If I care to comment further then I will. For now though I don't. I was not trying to change the subject and nit pick to keep the subject "Down". What really is the problem with making sure my username is not truncated? Or would you appreciate it if I called you Mr. Elps?

I have not tried to push anyone over the edge. I simply did not appreciate the way my username was being truncated.


By all means, go ahead. And again, in case you missed it, I would actually prefer you don't even use Mr. because as stated before my username has nothing to do with my name and it is not needed.

Edit: Look we obviously got off on the wrong foot and both made some incorrect assumptions about the other. I apologize and will try to avoid it in the future. Just use only my username with nothing else in the future, please. I would appreciate it.

Now, let's return to the thread at hand. Sorry for the disruption.

Ahm, I see this is an old thread.. but since it has been pulled back up.. I'm going to swing it back to topic from the first pages. Since I loose patience easily.. and it has 16 pages worth of reading.. I'm just going to take a stab at it. I see chemtrails all of the time. It's the ones that last for 3-4 hours and spread out within their little area. I saw them just before dusk, yesterday as a matter of fact. 3 lines in a row. Today it has been "misting" all day. No rain, just mist as well as cloudy of course. Now.. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with "chemtrails." but it is unusual. Our forcast was for supposed to be sunny today, of course it's been changed to cloudy.

Your Observations

Match many many of the "reported" chemtrail sightings. the crux of the problem is the "technicality" in the name being used
So so many dismiss this as Junk science based on the word"chemtrail" what myself and others have been trying to do here is Distance ourselves from the rroneous term "chemtrail" it is in fact Mis-leading and is not a fair representation of what you have been wintessing. what of course you sre seeing are in Fcat "contrails" BUT that alone does NOT discredit "chemtrails" all it does is correctly apply the name Contrails to the "trails" which you are seeing.

Yes at first read this may in fact sound even MORE misleading But if you will please follow along i will show you what i mean.Contraisl are in fact a normal sometimes daily occurrence produced By hot Jet engine exhaust in the right atmospheric conditions with the right amount of moisture present aloft.the engines create the contrails by melting and freezing moisture particals in the air.Any of the CONTRAIL sites provided in this can explain the science of How contrails work.None of this is disputd by myself and other researchers whic immediatly seperates us from the mainstream Chemtrail clan

what we are proposing to you all is that there are SEVERAL concurrent technologies both Military as well as civillian that any one of which can support the reasoning behind LINGERING, Oil tainted, biologically tainetd contrail exhausts. Mr. Rokerijdude somewhere around page 8 layed out a very concise detailed overview of Four current active programs,sinsce the it has been nothing but ridicule and name calling .Many of the technologies he brought to the table are completly Viable and Validated and are in fact being conducted to this point they have all been ignored,rather than debated as no one yet has provided any real data to show where he was erroneus in what he brought here

One of the most telling and obvious programs is the one talked about briefly in the article above.This program was invented by a highly renowned scientist who was in on the atomic bomb development as well as the pioneer for the hydrogyn Bomb, he was ostracised later in his career for trying to expose some things that others did not want disclosed a scientist by the name of oppenheimer was the one who led the smear campaign..interstingly enough here in January 2007 is a article desribing uses of the very technology we speak of....it has simply been called "earths sunscreen" it was in a white paper written By teller and 2 other prominent scientists at the bequest of the US government..

the theory involves using aluminum aeresols or other oarticulates that can be charged Ionically and sprayed aloft High in the atmosphere...using Dr Bernard Eastlunds HAARP installation in Gakona alaska ,Like charged electrical impulse can be firedinto the stratospher via ULF ELF and VLF radio transmissions the polarizing of the particles combined with polarized...radio waves acts as a worldwide magnet repelling the chaffe in the atmosphere keeping it aloft for longer periods of time .the reasons for this are somewhat detailed in the above article.........the basis for this theory arose from US naval Communications developed BY HAARP and used for global radio transmissions anywhere in the globe by "bouncing" radion waves off of a artificial screen layed by naval planes spryaing a Chaffe into the air......VERY similar to the RFMP program which has taken it even further allowing 3 dimensional views of the battlefield by using electrically charged Reflective Microparticles in the atmosphere above the Battlefield


The United states air force has adopted a similar technology and is now in its testing stages..as well the US Air Force has been involved in Ozone remidiation exercises for quite some years now as well as GLOBAL weather modification these thechonologies are yeat another facet of the multi pronged arm that some are erroneously calling Chemtrails. dont fall into the chemtrail trap.Rokerijdude has an excellent post on page 8 or 9 anyone truly interested in getting to the meat can statrt there i find it highly informative and personally feel that is what got him canned.............no matter none of my bizwacks



this is a highly complex issue involving lots of chemistry science and weather Knowledge.I started this oddeysy some 4 or 5 years ago I have switched direction no less than 6 times before discovering that there is NO SINGLE theory here......NO SINGLE technology Here.............and i know afr far more about science weather nad all of the above than i ever dreamed i would...............it is a long quest my friend i am here to answer questions if i can and provide insight or direction if needed

thanks for the post

Jimmy phelps

You Know Jimmy

scalar technology is heavily in use and many of us believ that scalar warping and chemtrails are being used to change weather patterns

here is some info on scalar technologies

http://www.freedomdomain.com/weathercontro...arweapon01.html



--SOVIET SCALAR ELECTROMAGNETIC WEAPONS--

This briefing presents the basic concepts of Soviet Scalar
electromagnetic weapons, some of the major types available, and evidence of
their widespread testing.

- Scalar Electromagnetics is Electrogravitation -

Scalar electromagnetics is an extension of present electromagnetics (EM)
to include gravitation. That is, a unified electrogravitation, and, what is
more important, it is a unified engineering theory. Its basis was discovered
by Nikola Tesla.

In the scalar EM extension, EM field energy can be turned into
gravitational field energy and vice versa. This exchange can be patterned and
localized, in specific areas and objects. Such a controlled change of
electromagnetics to gravitation is not possible in the normal EM or physics
presently taught in Western textbooks. However, the bits and pieces of the
theory have been scattered through the physics literature for some time, but
no orthodox western scientist seems to have realized that these anomalous
portions could be integrated into a startling new physics. Unorthodox
experimenters, inventors, and scientists have made discoveries in this arena
for several decades, but again have not realized the exact implications or
the precise manner in which their results could be combined with present
electrical physics.

- Fer-De-Lance -

Such sluggishness is certainly not present in the Soviet Union. For
over three decades, the Soviet Union has been developing electrogravitation
and app,ying it to develop strange new s%cret weapons of incredible power
and capability. They have sustained the largest weapons development program
ever launched by any nation, and they have kept it effectively hidden from
prying western eyes. I have called this program "Fer-De-Lance", after the
deadly South American pit viper of the same name.

The dreaded fer-de-lance is a snake of great agility and lethal effect.
It often ambushes its hapless prey, and strikes unexpectedly and without
warning. Its first sudden strike is usually lethal to its victim, which
promptly expires in writhing agony. Since the Soviet development of scalar EM
weapons has been designed for the same purpose, the name seems appropriate.

The equivalent effort of about seven Manhattan projects has been poured
into fer-de-lance by the Soviets, and the program has been successful almost
beyond imagination. The eerie weapons are now developed, deployed, and
tested. The ambush has been completed; Fer-de-Lance is coiled and ready to
strike.

Yes this is typical of many days and weeks here also. i have noticed heavier spraying in the early morning and late afternoon

I have read reports that some of the trail missions are done in front of weather fronts particularly when they are of the scalar type.i have also heard thatChina too posess Scalar technology.Haarp is basically the same thing and could be used to counter effect soviet ops. this is yet another facet of the whole thing.the web is deep and has many paths I am aware of this just have my hands full at this moment with what i have found and am researching.perhaps you could keep focused in that area while i focus on the "earth sunscreen" side of it?
deal?


jimmyphelps

I'm having a bit of trouble following you, but I think I agree in principle. You really cannot disprove "chemtrails" because you would need to analyse each of them to see if they contained any components not expected from ordinary jet-engine combustion.

On the balance of probability, however, I think we can discount their existence (IMO). To convince me otherwise, I would like to see chemical analytical results of verified samples taken from what would otherwise be described as contrails.



Nitpicking, but the engines take moisture-laden air and via compression / combustion in the engine cause the exhaust gases to contain more moisture than would be normal. These gases (vapor) then condense into minute water particles / ice, which forms the contrail. It's a combination of the moisture content of the air, and the ambient air temperature when the engine exhaust is expelled. Dry air - no contrail. Relatively warm air - no contrail.



Please excuse me if I have misinterpreted some of the articles you linked to, but I thought that they were saying that it was a theoretical method which should be included in further studies.



Yes, Oppenheimer came into conflict with Teller because Teller advocated the development of the Hydrogen Bomb (thermonuclear). Oppenheimer had misgivings about his involvement in the development of the atomic bomb.



Yes, but HAARP involves the ionosphere; the ionosphere is above 260 000 feet! That is WAY above the operating heights of commercial airliners, and way above which so-called "chemtrails" are reported.

Another nitpick, but the "Soviets" no longer exist. The USSR is no more. If you refer to Russia, you should correct yourself.

that is of course if we are 100% sure that the particles are in fact being delivered VIA the contrail itself..................or if they are somehow being introduced through either wingtip nozles or nozzle arranged similarly to the array used for afterburners in fighter jets.at this point i havent delved that far into the conversation i am just establishing my premise that the "trails" being seen and CALLED "chemtrails" are probably just Contrails that are also laden with the metals and particulates i have discussed .i havent really gotten into any of the mechanics of why or how yet but thanks
there have been such samplings taken around the country Clifford Carnicom has presented many samples for analysis and i have read other accounts of air samples taken During HEAVY spraying ops what the concensus of these tests are is Barium.Barium Salyts as well as aluminum oxide. as i have netioned here as has Rokerijdude there are at least 4 currently running military ops/experiments that WIDELY USE aluminum oxide and barium......the programs have been mentioned and how they operate has also been mentioned ...on its own just chemtrails.........????but when there are several concurrent technologies that all spray particulates in the air for different reasons there is high probability of "CHEMTRAIL" as it is Aluminum oxide particulates that contain ionic charges ..they are used for a variety of purposes including Military ops/experiments


feel free to nitpick anyone investigating the phenomenon would have picked those detils out on theyre own.I thank you for Clarifying My simplistic explanation
now based on your explanation several things occur to these NORMAL contrails the most distinctive of all ......they dissipate as the plane moves through the sky .they do not spread horizon to horizon they do not play tic tac toe in the sky with NORMAL contrails .......and also according to the official contrail explanation which is correct and i do not dispute BTW the atmospheric conditions have to be right.well my question then is why is it EVERY SINGLE DAY where i live the conditions are pERFECT whether its sunny,rainy,windy,cold.hot.dry.wet etc

they leave these trails DAILY i guess i must live in the prime atmospheric area for contrails? hardly thank you for the textbook contrail explanation for many of those who have NO IDEA what we are talking about they will come in handy


Oh yes sir your correct that IS what the MAINSTREAM news articl indeed said.....considering Teller came up with this idea, and wrote the white paper in around 96-98.and there has BEEN WIDESPREAD questioning chronicling and witnessing of what some are Calling Chemtrails ,the coincidental timing is uncanny teller writes a paper within 2 years the trails begin to appear in earnest the operation continues throughout the 90's and into the current day. last year Senate Bill 517 hits the house concerning trails and weather modification it is trying to be passed. fast forward to an article in which the United States is is pressuring Other countries to adopt a theoretical propsition
that just so happens to be a part of Tellers white Paper.
Knowing the United states and the government as well as i do i acn come to NO other conclusion that the united states has itself been engaged in the practice and has pioneered the technology we know it works we know how it works and we are prepared to assist other countries in this operation for Money ,fuel .resources........on its surface it is in fact a viable solution to averting SOME global warming.....this is of course assuming that this is the ONLY operation being conducted using barium barium salts selenium.................but as discussed there are several technologie all using heavy metals that have been aeresolized..........Btw the article is merly a reference to show that this theory is plausible and is being explored i believe the article did its job on that premise
Fine................. the point being they were BOTH genius Scientists, with Impeccable backrounds, which establishes Teller as a prominent scientist.which was my point

[quote]
Yes, but HAARP involves the ionosphere; the ionosphere is above 260 000 feet! That is WAY above the operating heights of commercial airliners, and way above which so-called "chemtrails" are reported.[/quote

No sir HAARP is not only used for Broiling the ionsphere, it has and is also used to bounce radio communications world wide, based on technology wrongfully accredited to Marconi .yes the HAARP does deal with Ionspheric boiling, and it is also used as a Combatant to Scalar technology, which was Invented By Nikola Tesla ,and is now in use By china ,and Russia.Scalar weaponry is a sound technology, and it can be detailed ,and researched. Over all my theory on the trails, is in conjunction with HAARP, they are used to track Scalar Fronts .This is in a entirely different area of thechnology though, and only Blurrs the lines of the current discussion. As most can see, yourself included ,there is NOT one area that can be Pinpointed.......... that is what makes this mystery so so hard to unravel ,it cannot simply be answered in a few posts on a message board ,Much of the information is impossible to work with unless you are a TELLER or a scientist of that magnitude.

as you can see if you have been following since about page 8, there are many facets that are all tied together

there is NO SINGLE smoking gun here ............................

and i DO NOT HAVE ALL OF THE ANSWERS

Nor have i ever eluded to that, just as with ANY scientific experimentation,or investigation, as i Continue to question, read, learn, my theory naturally changes, and evolves as i find errors in my theory, they need to be corrected. whenever this happens it changes many facades of my working hypothesis .i am still this very day expanding,shaping,learning and adjusting


thanks for responding


Jimmyphelps

Im thinking then someone shouls appraise Putin of this. and also his Russian Army.
there is MUCH more left of Communist Russia than most believe .......have you ever been there? quite the interesting country the Kremlin is CREEPY

http://carnicom.com/flame1.htm



A series of qualitative chemical tests and deductions now confirm without doubt the presence of significant amounts of barium within atmospheric samples. Citizens may now begin the process of collecting the sample materials for formal submission to public environmental agencies and private labs for identification. The testing process can be done at modest expense and the results from laboratory analysis can now be qualitatively and independently verified without great difficulty. Any testing service employed will need to be able to demonstrate no vested interest in the outcome of the results, accuracy of method, and the willingness to have the testing process independently monitored.

The material under analysis has been collected by a plate ionizing filter; it may also be collected with conventional fiber filtration over a longer period of time. HEPA filter collection and subsequent electrolysis of the filter material placed in distilled water has also proven successful. Extended time periods may be required to collect a sufficient volume of material for electrolytic processing and external testing preferences. Readers are referred to previous articles1,2 for two methods of collection. The use of electrolysis is significant in producing a final compound for testing purposes. The solid materials (powder/ crystals) collected by the plate ionizing filter, assuming they satisify the test procedures described on this page, will be sufficient for laboratory analysis. Qualitative chemical tests and flame tests positively establish the significant presence of barium compounds within the atmospheric sample.

Citizens with sufficient environmental concern are encouraged to begin this process of sample collection and identification, along with the documentation of the responses of both public and private environmental services.

All citizens are requested to become familiar with the following briefing paper. (

http://www.eisenhowerinstitute.org/program...resentation.pdf

The paper is written by Dennis Papadopoulos, Physics Department, of the University of Maryland, in connection with the Eisenhower Institute. The paper is in a .pdf format, and is entitled "Satellite Threat Due to High Altitude Nuclear Detonations". The paper outlines a method that employs the use of ELF propagation from the HAARP transmitter as a means to protect satellites from the effects of nuclear explosions at altitude. All constituents of this system are identified as primary research topics of the aerosol operations. Readers, researchers, citizens and activists are encouraged to become familiar with the conceptual basis of this briefing, and to disseminate this paper. Please devote special attention to the final pages of the report. The posting of this information is not meant in any way to impart finality or singularity of purpose to the aerosol operations; to the contrary, numerous applications have been identified as being feasible under the modified state of the atmosphere that now exists. As an example, biological operations, environmental modifications, alternative weapon systems and applications are not a consideration within this report. The comprehensive nature of the ELF - SATELLITE - HAARP -AEROSOL(charged particle control) connection, however, deserves careful evaluation by all citizens.

More cut and paste from here. http://www.carnicom.com/elf13.htm , which originates here http://www.carnicom.com

This is a quote from globalsecurity.org
I didn't see anything about chemtrails, or even aerosol anywhere related to this subject, other than there, which is NOT written by the good Dr. but from carnicom.com.

Not sure how it relates, just pointing out the specifics.
Edit: I don't have freakin spell check on this comp!

Oh my goodness, I JUST got it. I feel like a DOPE. Go to google, type in "phelps chemtrail".

I'll be accepting bonks all nite folks! The line starts here!

welll at least your trying to keep with it...Kudos
alas though myself and others have consistently pointed to SEVERAL technologies that all realate due to theyre very nature and design at elat 4 clear technologies have been posted this last article was written in reponse of HFB and his theory that Haarp somehow has something to do with the chemtrails..some of actually agree with that to an extent the forrays off into different area are needed in this subject as it is Multi faceted as we keep saying.....................

there is no Singular cause no singular smoking gun what we have here are a multitude of platforms all of which deliver aresolized mettalic particles int either the atmosphere.....the troposphere,,,,the ionsphere or basically any other area of the atmosphere that needs its molecular and ionization makeup changed fro whichever reasons
there is actually differing opinions on the actual technologies also

That why we all come here to try and discuss the things we learn and see if we can piece anything together ..why you come to the thread i can only speculate from your beahavior in previous postings............im not trying to convince you or anyone else of anything I am here to provide you with controversial thought provoking psitings and the tools to look into it for youselves..Im not hung up on your opposing position

I am here to state mine provide reasonable information to support what i am leaning towards and as i go through it all i continually learn my theoris adjust and i move forward that is how scientific data is collected and validated over time and trial and error.I have never claimed to be the messiaha i have some good ideas good points of view and theory to support them afr more than just personal opinion and insult


for me this is all about waking up the American people even if its only one at a time ...............i am doing what i have set out to and that is to try and make a difference i have no need for your brand of mudslinging and Be-littling

yes sir the papers areFrom Carnicom .com one of the most authorative websites there is concerning chemtrails and several of the issues mentioned ..again i nake no secret of this yep thats where the info came from i use it because he is an actual scientist his words and theory make more sense than my laymens terms about things.nothing wrong with pasting pertinent ifno it it helps the thread

and as i and others have stated just as you are implyimg in your interjection NO sir this is NOT the singular Smoking Gun Nor did i or anyone else claim it to be so..........................you know so much? where is YOUR smoking Gun? henpecked inside your opinion?

this last article actually is in reference to Flea bagius and his Scalar technology quirie plese try and keep up it has to do with how haaarp works in conjunctions with scalar electro magnetic technologies you really need to read more of these posts your far behind the rest of us in understanding where we are in the conversation

have a nice day



jimmy phelps

what a dope............

that has nothing to do with me..............

ha ha ha there is a Jim Phelps related to chemtraisl




I got the name from the radical christian who is going to all the soldiers funerals and desecrating them ..................

had no idea.........hahahahah

thats excellent

great find ill be humored all night now too

actually im not Jimmy phelps at all

ill bet a few of you have it figured by now maybe not

ill stick to it

ha ha ha off i go to


\"to READ about ME\"


bawwwwhahahahahahahahaha frigging funny

bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

this is HILARIOUS Im famous with a made up Name

even funnier he supports mytheories

thsi is Fabulous bahahahahahahahahahahahahah

==========================================================



Jim Phelps - Chemtrail Whistleblower- Inventor of DOE\\\\\\\'s reme PostThu Jun 26, 2003 5:41 pm Reply with quote

Jim Phelps - Chemtrail Whistleblower- Inventor of DOE\\\\\\\'s remediation of the ozone

http://members.aol.com/magnu96196/chemtrails.html

Introduction:
Hello Nuclear Interest persons,

Welcome to the DOEWatch Web page. This page is written by the person that invented the DOE\\\\\\\'s biggest project on remediation for the ozone hole. The inventions came from direct experience at the Oak Ridge National Lab and working the Q-cleared world of DOE\\\\\\\'s nuclear weapons. This piece is about the origin of the Ozone Hole and the methods in use and being designed to attempt to fix what Man\\\\\\\'s pollution have done to our weather and our environment.

It is only wise that all the citizens become aware of these secret projects happening right over everyone\\\\\\\'s head, and demand that the Govt. be made accountable to the people. Heads-up people, the message is clear that we all need to get involved. The evil that we see today can only flourish when good people remain silent.

Sincerely,
Jim Phelps, Oak Ridge whistleblower

================== Part II DOE\\\\\\\'s chemtrails ======================

CHEMTRAILS OVERVIEW by Jim Phelps

From: \\\"Editor\\\" <editor@educate-yourself.org>
To: \\\"Donna S.\\\" <mighty_nut@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: INVENTOR OF HAARP BLOWS THE WHISTLE Date: Mon, 11 Apr
2005
01:08:57 -0700

Hi Donna,

You buy too easily. I know of a wonderful parcel within a wildlife habitat in the Everglades that\\\'s going for a song . Interested?

Regards, Ken

PS: \\\"Jim Phelps\\\" is from the TV series \\\'Mission Impssible\\\" and THIS parcel is pure disinformaiton. Did you actually read it?

----- Original Message -----
From: \\\"Donna S.\\\" <mighty_nut@hotmail.com>
To: <editor@educate-yourself.org>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: INVENTOR OF HAARP BLOWS THE WHISTLE

Thanks for the info.

----- Original Message -----
From: \\\"Donna S.\\\" <mighty_nut@hotmail.com>
To: <editor@educate-yourself.org>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: INVENTOR OF HAARP BLOWS THE WHISTLE

This also seems to be by the same Jim Phelps...????

http://members.aol.com/doewatch/

----- Original Message -----
From: \\\"Donna S.\\\" <mighty_nut@hotmail.com>
To: <editor@educate-yourself.org>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: INVENTOR OF HAARP BLOWS THE WHISTLE

http://members.aol.com/doewatch/jimphelps.html
His Bio, supposedly??

---- Original Message -----
From: \\\"Editor\\\" <editor@educate-yourself.org>
To: \\\"Donna S.\\\" <mighty_nut@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: INVENTOR OF HAARP BLOWS THE WHISTLE

Actually, I wondered why it was here in the chemtrail thread.
And everytime I question a link, do not assume I am mudslinging please.
I wasn't implying anything. And yes, I've been reading the posts.
And the Jimmy Phelps thing? That was damn funny wasn't it? As a fan of conspiracy theories (or an apparent fan at least) you have to admit, that's quite a coincidence. Or is it..............
Just kidding!

the Jim Phelps thing floors me

hahahahahahaha

thats too much

I tried to bring up Fred Phelps a while ago on this site and the reception was less than friendly. I don't know what was worse: THAT or when I suggested that Iraq was better off with Saddam Hussein as their leader...

I'm not sure which is worse either.

Actually Fred was who i was originally thinking of signing in as but he is such an out there weirdo i couldnt do it i picked Jimmy cuz it sounded good

and now ive been reading Jim Phelps sh** ....he has similar ideas as i do but hes way out there is there a way admin can change my screen name

to maybe Billyphelps?