Comon people!

1#It would require a massive cover-up operation involving hundreds of thousands of aviation employees, service businesses, airlines and/or military personnel, atmospheric scientists, and meteorologists all over the world.


2#Depending on what the alleged purpose of the chemtrail spraying would be, spray released above 30,000 feet is likely to be highly unpredictably dispersed due to high-altitude winds.

3#Assuming drugging the population is the purpose, some ask "why not just drug the water supply for a fraction of the cost"? Drugging the public via chemtrails would surely be extremely expensive and inefficient.

An important part of the chemtrail theories is that they are laid down in grids or crossing patterns. However, as successive aircraft follow the same established airways, and winds blow the resulting contrails aside, these contrail patterns occur without the aircraft actually following such patterns.

John Day, meteorologist. http://www.nmsr.org/chemtrls.htm#oldtimer

This con/chemtrail conspiracy is a really odd one, I personally can't see chemicals being sprayed from the backs of planes for a number of reasons, it wouldn't reach the ground in sufficient quantities to do anything to the people in the area, it would simply be blown over miles and miles of land, the reason they are seen more now is the increase in traffic up there, just think planes have to follow flight paths so they'll all be flying through these trails adding to the quantity of vapour left, the weather conditions will greatly influence how they behave after they leave the plane, if the weather is cold but with humidity in the air and little wind around then they will hang around for ages, and the weather conditions on the ground can be completely different to those up at high altitude where the planes fly and lastly, why would the government want to poison it's own people! If they poison and kill them then they no longer have any power.

There is no evidence that these "chemtrails" are other than expected, normal contrails from jet aircraft that vary in their shapes, duration, and general presentation based on prevailing weather conditions.

Anecdotal stories of persons getting sick after contrails from obviously supersaturated tropospheric conditions lend no basis for belief that there are chemicals or biological agents being released.
This type of story provides as much credence to "chemtrails" as does the belief that drinking milk is causally linked to heroin addiction. (Almost all heroin addicts in the US drank milk as children.)

-------------

Yes the air force has some planes used for weather modification.

What the chemtrail believers don't say is there are only 4 planes (I think, could be wrong about the exact number but its not many).

These are C-130s and are in no way secret.

The web page of that wing proudly advertises them. It is mainly a research thing as weather modification is limited in scope.

But too look up at the white lines in the sky screaming -WE ARE BEING SPRAYED!! Is pure ignorance.

A C-130 by the way is a 4 engine prop plane. Not a jet as the Chemtrail believers say are doing the spraying and not nearly as big.

They just can't seem to grasp that sometimes contrails persist.

Your bog-standard water-vapour and a little aviation fuel contrail does reflect more sunlight into space, and scientists have measured a quanitifiable decrease in the amount of light reaching the surface over the last fifty years as the number of flights (and particulate pollution in general) have increased.

It has a net cooling effect on our atmosphere, and so has actually been unwittingly counteracting some of the global warming effects of CO2 pollution.

Do a search for "global dimming" if you want to know more.

Chemtrails are just contrails. That is not to say that there could not be an occasional, purposeful experimental release of, say, high altitude barium for standard wind tracking experiments. There could also be other related experiments that occur from time-to-time which release agents into the atmosphere.

---------------
I contend that there is no visible or other physical evidence of high-altitude spraying, and so I do not believe in chemtrails but forget about getting the chemmies to listen. They have been going on about this for years with absolutely no evidence.


The moniker might just as well be applied to contrails, however, for both the visible and invisible (chemical) components of jet exhaust there are cause for at least some concern.

Bottom line, the large trails in the sky are normal jet aircraft water condensation trails (contrails). Some of the smaller streaks in the sky could be caused by small aircraft seeding clouds to produce rain.

In the US, local state governments regulate the cloud-seeding industry.

http://www.nawcinc.com/photos.html

Another brilliant post Hazz.
But do the chemmies stop being afraid of the "evil" white lines in the sky...

It's getting all muddled again.

1. compartmentalization takes care of logistics and leaks
2. the assumption of intentional poisoning is several issues in one
- intent, unknown

because it's unknown, we don't know that high altitude dispersement would be ineffective for the "purpose"

it may be, and probably is, that those doing it don't know they're doing it

but then, if you haven't heard the crazy people in power talk about population control and overpopulation, I don't know if you want to... it's pretty scary stuff the things they say.

I still like the idea that they're putting stuff into the upper atmosphere to create the "global warming" hysteria, and some of that eventually gets into our respiratory system and is causing some of the sinus and allergy type illness that *seem* to be on the rise... but again I can't find a good epidemic/clinic admission site that tracks this stuff in the way that would show it.

Who cares? If the gov't is experimenting on us, you can't stop it, just accept it. A few poeple made the point of why poison the air when you could poison the water or food? How would the "poisons" fall to earth in an organized way? I recall seeing these "Chemtrails" for as long as I can remember and even my parents recall seeing them in the early 70's.
Anyhow the chemtrails are very pretty to look at, so enjoy the sights before we all die.

If the government is experimenting on you...you don't care? I'm not saying they are...I am just aghast that you don't care if they are. I have stated several times that I don't know what the chemtrails are....but I am pretty sure they aren't contrails...I do however, default to the position that it is somewhat likely that they are and that it is all much to do about nothing.

You haven't been seeing chemtrails since the '70s. You have been seeing contrails as long as there have been jets in the skys....chemtrails are not contrails...so don't confuse the two.

Okay well...January 9th, 2007 was a clear blue sky day in North Texas...not one cloud in the sky. I was working outside in the far North Dallas Corridor (North Dallas and Plano area) when I began noticing chemtrails about 11:00am. Classic criss-crossing patterns and non-dispersing vapor. By 2:00pm the sky over Dallas and Plano was full of the criss-crossing trails to the point that it looked as though it was 'partly cloudy' instead of clear blue skies. However, immediately North of Plano not one chemtrail was to be found....to the South of Plano...the sky was full of them...to the immediate North...nothing.

Today....the same thing, except today there were more and they were over the Northern sky as well.

I am convinced these are not normal patterns of jets. Jets fly the same patterns over and over day after day, night after night...jet travel is non-stop....why then, if these were contrails would they be only in a certain part of the sky and only during a set number of hours during the day? I turned around to go get my telescope to check out the planes but I realized I didn't have time so I just blew it off... I am certain that this is not normal.

It's basically impossible to prove that they are not chemtrails, because you would need to test every single contrail to show that it was not a chemtrail. That being said, I'm certain they are not. The descriptions match normal contrails.

What you could do, though, is to record the date, time, location, and patterns you see. It's important to note what direction the trail is coming from / going to.

Then contact the local Air Traffic Controllers for that area. You'll probably find that the 'criss-cross' area is an intersection of air routes (basically 'roads' in the sky). They can also tell you how they separate & route the traffic flow in that area. You'll probably find that there are areas that have a large concentration of traffic, and adjacent areas that have little to none. With the your recorded data, they should be able to tell you what altitudes the aircraft you saw were flying at.

Also take the same data to your local weather guesser, and ask them to find out the met data for that area / altitude on the day & time you saw the aircraft. They can then tell you whether or not the conditions were right for contrail formation.

An excellent suggestion, Obviousman...scientific inquiry.

In this fashion, one can learn about things and understand.

Contrails are a well understood phenomenon, completely explainable, and common. Nothing in the pictures shown are anything but these contrails. There is nothing "chemtrail" about them (well, OK, water vapor is a chemical, sure....). A bit of inquiry, and study, will clearly show that these are essentially nothing harmful whatsoever.

Hi Spacenut:

I live up here in the Northwest part of the US in Oregon, and I heard recently that we have an epidemic of children born with Autism. I also heard that there is a high percentage of these births especially in Oregon where I live.

When I lived in California 6 years ago, I never noticed chemtrails as much as I did when I moved up here to Oregon. A nice day can't go by up here without the sky being filled with these chemtrails. I walk outside my home and see planes making these chemtrails. I go to the supermarket, and there they are again. I go see a movie and come out, and there are these chemtrails again.

I wonder why I never saw them like I'm seeing them up here, and now I'm wondering if these cases of autism could be caused by the chemtrail spraying. When I first came up here too, there were many reports of mysterious viral infections in the lungs that people were reporting. Some people attributed this also to the chemtrail spraying.

I just wish I knew what was going on.

http://ashiana.conforums.com/index.cgi

~ Isis

This chemtrail rubbish just goes to show how much some people have a dislike for their own government. The idea that there is a vast conspiracy to mass distribute chemicals on a worldwide scale to the general population, is absolutely proposterous. For a start, spraying from such high altitudes is extremely ineffective and inaccurate. If the government wanted to do such things, on a country wide basis, it would be fifty times easier to put it in the water supply. Oh, and if it's the government doing this then they are technically poisoning themselves! I don't see all government officials going around with oxygen masks, do you? Finally, all observable characteristics of 'chemtrails' can quite easily be attributed to the formation of normal contrails. Oh, and by the way, linking a disease and a method without proof is known as a logical fallacy. You can't just simply assume the diseases are caused by chemtrails without some kind of proof first.

One thing that's always puzzled me about this chemtrail theory is the sheer logistics of getting these chemicals on the aircraft and then spraying them out. There is absolutely no evidence that, apart from a few crop-spraying machines, aircraft carry any tanks for spraying unexplained chemicals. Thousands of aircraft manufactures' and airport maintenance staff would have to be in the know if they did. That leaves putting something in the fuel, which has a certain logic as the trails appear right behind the engines. However, the fuel is burnt in the engines, and a lot of expertise goes into making sure that it is nearly all burnt, as this is more efficient. The black exhaust trails of early jets are absent from modern ones. The question now is what mind-altering chemical could pass through a jet engine without being broken down?

It doesn't make sense.

If some sort of chemical is being sprayed from aircraft, it would only be visible as persistent contrail under exactly the same conditions under which normal aircraft contrails become persistent.......

And, given the altitude at which they appear, if any 'chemtrails' were to ever reach the ground they would do so hundreds or thousands of miles away from where they were sprayed.

If you want to spray the ground you'd do so at a lower altitude. And it wouldn't be visible.

Weather conditions aren't identical in california and oregon, so why would the frequency of contrails be the same?

Ah Gav...

You're impeccable logic triumphs again!

They're just "connies", as we call them, or course. Primarily water vapor trails caused by known atmospheric conditions at high altitude. They are utterly harmless, and simply trace jet routes along the skies at the higher flight levels, for those who like to look at them and be amazed that a huge piece of metal is vaulting along with ballet like grace some 7 miles above the surface of the planet...

UH OH, everyone get out your orgone generators the start of the new world order has begun!

joc are you ok? lols. Just doesn't seem to be the same joc that I know.

What struck me as the truth, is what scooby was posting.

I think the only reason chemtrails are secret is that there may be potential side affects. They want to test it without fear of backalsh, or blame.

I think that in this case their intentions are probably for the best.

You guys were asking the right questions, funny you didn't get the right answer though. You asked why not poison the water or food... Well, it's not poison then obviously.

These are high in the air and they hang around, so they are probably meant to stay up there for their effect, that is if they are real.

1500 scientists wrote to the UN in 1992. The subject was global warming. I can't believe it is even a question anymore.

reflection/absorbtion... that is what I think this is all about.

I have never looked into the sky to see if there really is a difference. I'm definately not going to act like I know anything. I always found chemtrails to be laughable, but in the context of global warming they may just make since.

-Muddy

Oh, brother. Not this topic again!
Look, if you want to use a chemical or biological agent to infect a population, it MUST be at a certain concentration to be effective.
Spraying it from 40,000 feet would not be effective. It would be so dispersed by high-altitude winds as to be useless.
Also, one thing that many conspiracy theorists don't know: biological agents are disseminated at night. Why? Because the ultraviolet in sunlight kills biological agents. Simple, no?
So why would these "mysterious" contrails be seen at all? If they truly contained biological agents, they'd be disseminated at night and, therefore, invisible to the naked eye.
As for chemical agent, disseminating it from tens of thousands of feet above the Earth would be a waste. Chemical agent such as VX (nerve gas) and HD (mustard gas) must be delivered in a certain concentration to be effective. That target concentration could not be reached by disseminating from such an altitude.
So what are you seeing?
Beats me. I've seen photos of so-called "chemtrails" that didn't look any different from a regular contrail, allowed to disperse naturally in the high altitude winds above us.
There is no conspiracy. There are no "chemtrails." It's something created by an opportunist looking to sell a book or articles, or by someone off their nut, or perhaps even by a prankster.
Look at it reasonably and realize it just doesn't make sense.
Give it up, already.

The One thing about the chem trails I dont buy in to is that the people who are supposed to be killing us live in the same citys we do and breathe the same air we do ,So arnt they too at risk?? ...........Untill I see politicians in Gas Masks on the streets, Im not jumping to conclusions.

On the other hand i do want to know why one day a jet flying in the air produces no trail while the next day the same jet dose produce a trail....So I some what think there may be a "Chem-Trail" reality, but how far and deep it goes....I'm not too sure....

Here ya go:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/wea00/wea00230.htm

maybe that the government officials have filtering technology put in their esophagus so that they look like they're breathing same air but actually they have a filter making them safe i think

At what stage in their careers is this fitted? When they get the job? At a certain seniority level? Do their children get it at birth? The public demands to know.

Most things I read about them talk about different Metals, not really chemicals or bio agents so much.
Various theoretical uses from HAARP to Project Bluebeam to Weather Modification to more benign reasons... "unknown" side effect of some crazy fuel regulation... nothing saying whatever "antidote" isn't in the "flu shots" given to our leaders either.

Actually they do. Its called flouride. And the Nazi's put it in the water they gave to their prisoners. Because it passified them. It made them "passive". It made them less likely to revolt against their captors.

Does that mean there is a simple antidote to heavy metal poisoning, with no highly unpleasant side effects? Why don't the doctors know this?

Flouride makes people passive? I strongly doubt this. My 18 year old son grew up taking flouride in his vitamins (we're in a rural area so we use well water). He has a black belt in American Kempo and a green belt in full contact Shodokan Karate as well. He's academically competitive too, he just got on the Dean's list at the University of Mass. Dartmouth's School of Business Admin. There are a lot of words I could use to describe this kid..."passive" isn't one of them. BTW, he has perfect teeth (no fillings). Oh, flouride doesn't seem to *stunt* one's growth either, he's 6' 3" 230lbs.

I don't know that it is heavy metal poisoning so at this point it isn't the point.

But, hypothetically if it were, I'd think compartmentalization would keep Most people from knowing even if they knew what they were looking for.

Some of you folks have mentioned that Chemtrails are nothing more than Contrails. I refuse to believe this for a minute. I live under one of the busiest airports in the U.S. Contrails do not develop into massive dusty colored cloud covers, like chemtrails. Many chemtrails also do not simply criss cross the sky, they also make u turns in the sky. I won't jump on any bandwagon speculating their purpose, but I doubt that it has anything to do with an attempt to serve up a toxic coctail to unwitting victums below. I would lean more towards weather modification. I read an article covering complaints raised by air traffic controllers that the chemtrails (when heavy) screw up their radar system. The only thing that I'm wondering now is if anybody is tracking or monitoring, the dates of heavy chemtrail spraying, in conjuction with weather patterns? I took some photos of some spraying here in So. Cal. a handful of days before the Midwest got spanked with the ice storm. I was wondering if any of these patterns go further than coincidence?

As a matter of fact I saw two such 'u turns' on the day I revived this thread.

I don't think they are spraying poison...I don't know that they are 'spraying' anything. I will do some 'scientific
research' as suggested earlier next time.

I see lots of contrails all the time. If I see contrails from one or two jets that go all the way across the sky, why don't I see contrails from all the jets that are criss crossing at the same time? There is more to this than just simple contrails.

And remember...I was the exact same way...completely aghast at the entire notion...until I experienced them myself.

The contrails you might see near an airport will be different as planes coming in for landing or taking off will be flying much lower. The temperature of the air they are traveling through is higher than when they are at altitude so any contrails formed are less likely and will dissipate quicker. Planes flying over the area and not landing will be at cruising altitude and would be the ones creating the "chemtrails". The air up where they are flying is very cold and which makes persistent contrail formation easier. As for the u-turns, sometimes, even at altitude, an air traffic controller may have an airplane turn for spacing. Sometimes you may be seeing the contrail from an AWACS or air refueling tanker. They typically fly in oval patterns.

Some have noticed the dates when they see "chemtrails". They do appear to come right before fronts. Why is this? The conditions that are right for persistent contrail formation (clod air and high humidity) typically occur ahead of weather fronts. So you could say they are spraying something for weather modification, or you could go with the established science that has been in existence for over 70 years and know that you will see more contrails and persistent contrails preceeding a weather front.

Why don't you see contrails from all the jets? Because not all the jets are at the same altitude. Depending on the day, the contrail layer (area conducive to contrail formation) could be higher or lower than other days. On some days, virtually all of the high altitude jets will pass through it. Other days, only a few will.

Frenat, I appreciate your insight. That does make sense, your explination of U turns (didn't think about that). Although I've seen both incidences occur on the same day, at the same time, and the same altitudes. A liner will fly by and its trail will dissipate within a short time, whereas, another jet (at the same altitude) will leave trail that will expand, and weep as if it were raining from the trail. Later these trails grow into cloud cover. I've also seen liners make u turns when I've been in areas many miles from the nearest airport.

How can you tell from the ground what altitude they are at? They could be 5,000 feet different and look the same to the naked eye. The atmospheric conditions (especially the temperature) will most definitely not be the same though.

Why does an airliner have to be near an airport to be told to make a turn by ATC? They are under control constantly while in Class A airspace (above 18,000 feet).

Frenat:


Excellent, and correct explanations in all cases!

I might add that at jet-route altitudes, conditions may change variously en-route at the same altitude.
You may notice at times that contrails appear behind a jet, then stop for a time, then re-appear a couple miles "down the road", as-it-were. This of course is due to changing humidity conditions along the route at that particular flight level, which is not all that unusual either.

I also am curious to this insistence on the term "chemtrails".
What these folks are talking about are contrails, which of course are mostly water vapor with the appropriate condenstaion nuclei in the mix. No jet liner is spraying chemicals (?)...out of their engine exhaust cones (!) Cropdusters spray chemicals, the only actual "chemtrails" and of course at low altitude for a specific purpose.

I don't see them here... Therefore they do not exist! HAHA!

Except that people dont breath with their esophagus.

Illustrating the value of basic anatomical knowledge.
Can you imagine trying to breathe with one's esophagus?


Perhaps chemtrails cause one to try that...and the ensuing gas that results in the GI tract results in the grey overcasts and subsequent phenomena associated with them???

Frenat makes some very good points.

I find it hard to believe that a concerted effort to spray something could be pulled off on the scale that it is purported to be.

So...for the moment...I am going with Frenat.......but I shall keep looking up!

I've seen enough contrails to know that they don't linger for hours, spreading out until they blanket the entire sky in white "clouds". The weather reports in the early morning say "Clear blue sky". By late afternoon, the weather reports say "Light cloud cover". Uh...not cloud cover, because it was entirely created by the high-flying jets making neatly parallel patterns that morning.

Contrails disperse very quickly - except under very rare atmospheric conditions.

No idea what these trails are - chemtrails or whatever else. But they aren't naturally forming contrails emitting from these aircraft.

If someone can demonstrate contrails lasting for hours and spreading out over as large area, I'd be interested in seeing it.

If you think this is happening over your area, PLEASE, keep an accurate record. Note the time and direction. Try and take photographs FROM THE SAME SPOT over a period of time (depending on the dissipation rate, perhaps every 3-6 minutes). If there is a ground landmark that can be included in the image, use it; that way you can show the image was taken from the same spot.

Don't forget my previous post about asking ATC about traffic that was in the area at that time; that will allow a reasonably accurate altitude to be determined.

What do you mean happening? I see it happen occasionally - it's a well known meteorological phenomena that has become more common in recent years due to a big increase in commercial air traffic.

http://www.rmets.org/education/secondary/scisky3.php

(Note the satellite pics from 1987 - about 10 years before 'chemtrails' allegedly started appearing)

east alabama. no major airport. 20+ thousand college students. homeland security testing zone. chemtrails daily. usually in crosses. crosses like my avatar. possible they are students training in flight. but they appear to be jets and not small planes. i am no good at determining altitude. but i see them every single day in odd nonsensical directions.

even if they are spraying for bugs. i dissaprove of pesticides of all sorts and move to eleminate them. i personally think its weather modification.

You have no major airport near you but you definitely have loads of commercial traffic flying overhead. They would be up above 20,000 feet in cruise where the conditions are better for contrail formation. They definitely would not be spraying for bugs at that altitude as most of any particles released may not even reach the ground for weeks and would then be so dissipated to be useless.

Odd post.

What does East Alabama, and a lack of a major airport in proximity, more than 20,000 college students, and "homeland security testing" have to do with contrails?

Contrails are caused by jet engine exhaust, at higher jet route altitudes, when the conditions are ripe for their formation at those altitudes.
They would not be small planes, because small planes do not fly into the upper jet route altitudes, and they don't utilize jet engines.

It is typical for jets to fly along apparently intersecting routes. There are many, many jet routes crossing Alabama, and every other state, which go in varying directions and at different flight levels and altitudes. Seeing contrails crossing each other is common, normal, and in no way nonsensical. They all represent jet aircraft going someplace.

They are also not spraying for bugs. Very low flying aircraft do that in close proximity to the ground which they intend to spray.

well if the theory of the contrails being intentionally harmful was right then a college city would be a nice target. most resistance comes from college youngns. also not every city is selected for homeland security experimenttations.... whatever those may be. so that tidbit may apply somewhere. i dunno.

id like to find out the flight routes crossing. this is my least favority conspiracy theory. but people ahve been talking about it more and more. for some reason

Sorry - I didn't make myself quite clear.

I realise that contrails can persist. I realise that contrails can spread out. I wanted to see if anyone had photographic evidence of a contrail that speads out "blanketing" an area and persisting for hours.



I've seen contrails that spread out a little, but as they do they thin and dissipate.

Oh, OK...if the theory has some substance...

I can understand why this would be your least favorite CT. It really has no substance to it at all. Contrails are well understood, common, natural, and frequent, happening every single day over some place, somewhere, all over the world.

As far as finding out about particular jet routes crossing Alabama, one could look up air routes for various airlines. Those lines generally correspond to some jet routes, but for the actual information, the real jet routes, where they're located, what they actually represent, you'd have to go to the actual high altitude enroute charts published through the NOAA and available from a couple of sources (Jeppesen, being the one that comes to mind immediately).

These will cost you a few bucks, as they're published regulary and must be continually updated. The chart you'd be looking for would be H-9. Looking at that chart, you'd be able to see the jet routes crossing Alabama (they'd be the lines with the "J" designations on them (i.e., J12, J121, etc...). Most civil airports that can handle any jet traffic at all will likely have some of them available.

well thank you.

Sometimes when I look at the stars with my telescope i see planes chemtrails at night. Hiding something? Or is it really vapor trails?