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Hermetic Hermit
Imagine for a monent you had never heard of Christianity or Christ for that matter. Unaware you find yourself in a Church during Mass.

Those attending move to the front to eat "The Body of Christ" and drink "The Blood of Christ". Looking up from this display you see a large image of the brutally tortured body of an individual.

user posted image

What would your thoughts be of this apparent act of ritual cannibalism and the worship of this image of torture?
zandore
QUOTE(Hermetic Hermit @ May 24 2006, 02:33 PM) [snapback]1203735[/snapback]

What would your thoughts be of this apparent act of ritual cannibalism and the worship of this image of torture?
What would my reaction be......

Am I on the menu?


*Hits the ground running*
Hermetic Hermit
QUOTE(zandore @ May 24 2006, 11:40 AM) [snapback]1203740[/snapback]

What would my reaction be......

Am I on the menu?
*Hits the ground running*


LOL that was what I was thinking too.

I wonder if any "thumping" parents have ever thought of the conflicting message they are sending their kids when they tell them they can't watch any TV or movies due to the violent content but take them to Church every Sunday to stare at an image of torture called God.
Imaginary Friend
I love this thread. thumbsup.gif

Given all that, if I saw a giant baptismal tank behind that altar and below that tortured effigy, and learned that was where regular people were submerged in the blood of that dead man and washed clean of their old lives, dedicated unto their new, I'd think what many have cause to today; it is a necromantic blood cult that worships the embodiment of death and devours the living flesh and life force (blood) , as a ritual act of communion with the spirit that commands it.

Then I'd get that door for fleeing Zandore. rofl.gif
Azalin
The same can be said about anything. Fear is lack of knowledge. If you don't know whats going on, your instantly put in a state of fear. If you took a tribesman from Africa and put him in the middle of a freeway with passing cars, whats he going to think ?.
Beckys_Mom
If I never was taught anything about it and all of a sudden found myself in mss...and saw that..I would think I was in a freak show to be honest...and pinch myself to wake up hoping it was just a weird dream blink.gif
Never_Hit_Nirvana
What would I think? I would pretty much wonder what the man had done to warrant such a death and if it was in defense of something since it seems to be revered. Then it would dawn on me: all these people in here are serial killers. I'd start looking around for the Mason jar full of brains, or the severed genitalia floating in formaldehyde. Maybe for Pinhead to come out and preside over the services. When you stop and think about, Christianity is a sick @#%$-ing religion.
A side thought: Why is it that all 3 of the major Western religions come from desert regions? Did the originators not know of shade? Did Jesus, Abraham and Mohammed just have sunstroke?
zandore
QUOTE(Hermetic Hermit @ May 24 2006, 04:13 PM) [snapback]1203848[/snapback]

I wonder if any "thumping" parents have ever thought of the conflicting message they are sending their kids when they tell them they can't watch any TV or movies due to the violent content but take them to Church every Sunday to stare at an image of torture called God.

Bibles to be Published With Parental Advisory Labels

True Christian® Action Alert!

Freehold Iowa - Liberals are screaming bloody murder again over the accidental death of a Landover Baptist child whose sweet innocent faith in Scripture sent him home to Jesus with third-degree burns after attempting to re-enact a scene he had read in the Bible where God kept three people alive in a furnace to impress a king a few thousand years ago.

"This child's faith in God and his untimely death should be a cause for rejoicing, not dismay!" yelled Pastor Deacon Fred from the pulpit on Sunday morning. "Through little Billy's example, other children will want to pick up the Bible and read true stories! Re-enacting a true story from the Bible is a whole lot different than re-enacting something from a fictional cartoon! Our children are acting by faith on the true facts in God's Holy Word and if Jesus decides to melt the skin off a few of them each year for doing so, well - it's not for us to question! In my opinion, little Billy died a regal death, worthy of any king or martyr for Christ. At least our Christian parents don't have to run around trying to explain to people why their children can't tell the difference between fact and fiction! Our kids are reading the Bible! They are not watching Bugs Bunny swinging around from a noose while eating carrots! How outrageous!


SOURCE



Bible Punishment Quiz




QUOTE(Imaginary Friend @ May 24 2006, 04:16 PM) [snapback]1203857[/snapback]

Then I'd get that door for fleeing Zandore. rofl.gif
Ladies first but you had better be quick! user posted image
Never_Hit_Nirvana
OK, that quiz is one of the sickest things I have ever seen. Yay Jesus!
RamboIII
QUOTE(Azalin @ May 24 2006, 03:21 PM) [snapback]1203864[/snapback]

The same can be said about anything. Fear is lack of knowledge. If you don't know whats going on, your instantly put in a state of fear. If you took a tribesman from Africa and put him in the middle of a freeway with passing cars, whats he going to think ?.


i appear to be missing the point on this one huh.gif
Lion of Judah
To me Jesus set a trend or an example of what life is really like under Babylon system through him he can save our souls from slavery war & pain so man can find hope in the darkest corners of the Earth.
Hermetic Hermit
QUOTE(Imaginary Friend @ May 24 2006, 01:16 PM) [snapback]1203857[/snapback]

I love this thread. thumbsup.gif

Given all that, if I saw a giant baptismal tank behind that altar and below that tortured effigy, and learned that was where regular people were submerged in the blood of that dead man and washed clean of their old lives, dedicated unto their new, I'd think what many have cause to today; it is a necromantic blood cult that worships the embodiment of death and devours the living flesh and life force (blood) , as a ritual act of communion with the spirit that commands it.


thumbsup.gif

God rejected Cain's offering of "fruit of the ground" preferring the blood sacrifice of Abel devil.gif

QUOTE(Azalin @ May 24 2006, 01:21 PM) [snapback]1203864[/snapback]

The same can be said about anything. Fear is lack of knowledge. If you don't know whats going on, your instantly put in a state of fear. If you took a tribesman from Africa and put him in the middle of a freeway with passing cars, whats he going to think ?.


What if the same conclusion comes from a knowledge of Christianity?

What's he going to think? Steel cows, very fast steel cows? Of course if he became curious and wanted to understand these steel cows be might be labelled a heretic by the Church which frowns upon seeking knowledge and understanding.

QUOTE(Lion of Judah @ May 24 2006, 01:56 PM) [snapback]1203915[/snapback]

To me Jesus set a trend or an example of what life is really like under Babylon system through him he can save our souls from slavery war & pain so man can find hope in the darkest corners of the Earth.


Uhhhmm... so you'd eat him?

Curious you mention being saved from "slavery, war & pain". I see the Church as the slave owners who used war and pain to keep their slaves in shackles.

Do you find it odd that the Church's behaviour reflects the opposite of what Jesus taught?
mako
In Anglo-Saxon England, the Church actually owned slaves! These poor wretches had iron collars welded around their necks and had no rights at all. Why were they (Anglo-Saxons and Christians all) enslaved? They couldn't pay their "Peter's Pence". And you say Christianity saves you from slavery and pain? no.gif
Imaginary Friend
Slavery In The Bible


Ritual Human Sacrifice In The Bible


What I find fascinating about materials such as that contained at the site above, is given the perception of satanism in the minds of the true believers that imagine that god or philosophy command such things, the one textual document that affirms a god that kills, enslaves, orders rapes, war, murder, etc... is the god of the christians that claim to fear satanists as evil! laugh.gif Satan tempts the flesh, but Yahweh desecrates it sadistically and it's called holy! This is the kind of thing that friends and I discuss about the contrariness in christianity. And causes us to ponder the question, given the history of altruism; what if all that we've been told is "good", is actually evil. And all that is "evil" is good?!

Think what worship of a god that commands such things as contained in the aforementioned links, says about the faith and the faithful that give it their life force to sustain it's existence as it commands it's faithful to take that same thing in others not like themselves. Life! Either exterminate it or enslave it to god's commandments and per god's law.

The Shepard and the sheep analogy is another issue we consider, with respect to the prior point. If one knows anything about sheep they know that they are inbred and stupid. Hence the need for the Shepard. What if,per the prior analogy about the conflict evil/good, the Shepard is simply the storyteller, the deceiver that posits the evil as the good and thus leads the sheep to slaughter, as were believers commanded to assume that tactic under god's law when god told them to invade and conquer other tribes.

Of all the gods considered false by the christian bible, the christian god is no different than any other of those gods that required blood sacrifice and slaughter as a declaration of faith.
Paranoid Android
Interesting thread thumbsup.gif It'd probably freak me out, to tell the truth. It's a pretty scary figure that guy on the cross yes.gif

Let me ask another question, along the same lines: If you had no idea about Christianity, or who Jesus was, and you walk into a church congregation during the monthly communion. The pastor hands out grapejuice and bread, says that this is symbolical of the selfless sacrifice of a kind loving gentleman - he apparently sacrificed himself for a bunch of people he'd never met - how would you feel? You look up and see a blank stone wall, no tortured figure on a cross or anything. There maybe a small cross-shape on the lectern, like this:

user posted image

but apart from that, the hall looks like any other community hall you might see at the local council. What are your thoughts on this seemingly courageous act of a selfless person, and the honour with which he is being afforded?


Regards, PA
Imaginary Friend
Hypothetical's about faith, isn't that a zen riddle?! wink2.gif

Given the new 'what if'; Were I to be handed grape juice and bread. (same as the blood/flesh sacrament, given the wine at the last supper was "unfortified" i.e. non-alcoholic.) and was told a man gave his life to wash away my sins: I'd wonder what he was thinking, since sin is still an issue for his believers and the world at large.

Then I'd do a little research, being new to the philosophy afforded that first encounter with this religion, and later ask why the christian faith has turned to idolotry , contrary to gods holy writ in the OT, wherein believers in the son of man of the NT, worship him as the embodiment of god, making him an idol by definition. Whether the podium is inscribed with a cross or a crucifix, or a little gold pendent hanging about a believers neck, the religious god like effigy is the same in a religious house or upon a believer. It's an idol. And as such is contrary to gods law, via all those passages dedicated to condemning pagan graven images throughout the OT.

QUOTE

'"Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven."
To achieve this end, the koan is the most famous Zen "device."'~C.Humphreys, Zen Buddhism, (pg. 148.)
Hermetic Hermit
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ May 25 2006, 05:08 AM) [snapback]1204642[/snapback]

Let me ask another question, along the same lines: If you had no idea about Christianity, or who Jesus was, and you walk into a church congregation during the monthly communion. The pastor hands out grapejuice and bread, says that this is symbolical of the selfless sacrifice of a kind loving gentleman - he apparently sacrificed himself for a bunch of people he'd never met - how would you feel?


First I would obviously feel like this person was a very good person, a kind-hearted and selfless person. Second I would ask, for what reason was this sacrifice made? And for the reasons Imaginary Friend stated the story would unravel quite quickly and I would be left with the feeling of being deceived.

Not to mention being told that the grape juice/wine and bread was "symbolical of the selfless sacrifice" which in fact it had nothing to do with his sacrifice would leave me with the feeling of being lied to.

Now I don't feel I can trust these people anymore.

Which brings me to some other questions...

What if I/you had a very good understanding of Jesus and Christianity, knowing that the two messages were very contradictory, and still saw this ritual as symbolically cannibalistic and saw this effigy or idol as the worship of torture?

And what if you looked back to their history and saw that the contradictory message of Jesus and the Church was just the beginning of the hypocrisy and saw the same images of violence and torture but this time at the hands of the Church?

Could you ever respect that belief? Could you ever quiet that anger?

Imagine if the Nazis had won World War II and we were discussing(in German lol) at what lengths they went to to win(though we probably wouldn't be allowed to discuss it, quite similar to the Church's nearly 2000 year attempt at silencing the oppostion), would we see it as necessary for the greater good as they tell us?
wishes2
QUOTE(Hermetic Hermit @ May 24 2006, 10:33 AM) [snapback]1203735[/snapback]

Imagine for a monent you had never heard of Christianity or Christ for that matter. Unaware you find yourself in a Church during Mass.

Those attending move to the front to eat "The Body of Christ" and drink "The Blood of Christ". Looking up from this display you see a large image of the brutally tortured body of an individual.


Sure, it sounds bad, but look at the bigger picture:

"the brutally tortured body" is Jesus. He was tortured and killed for us. For humanity, because He loves us. An act of love.
Besides, we aren't worshipping the tortured body. We're worshipping the Creator. The body is the symbol of His love!

eating the Body of Christ and drinking the Blood of Christ symbolizes how He sacrificed Himself so we could live. Again, an act of love.

It looks bad, but it really isn't. It's the opposite.
chaostrom
QUOTE
Sure, it sounds bad, but look at the bigger picture:

"the brutally tortured body" is Jesus. He was tortured and killed for us. For humanity, because He loves us. An act of love.
Besides, we aren't worshipping the tortured body. We're worshipping the Creator. The body is the symbol of His love!

eating the Body of Christ and drinking the Blood of Christ symbolizes how He sacrificed Himself so we could live. Again, an act of love.

It looks bad, but it really isn't. It's the opposite.


So the Almighty chooses to show love through pain and death... devil.gif
zandore
QUOTE(chaostrom @ Jul 17 2006, 10:48 PM) [snapback]1273934[/snapback]
QUOTE(wishes2 @ Jul 16 2006, 04:06 PM) [snapback]1272311[/snapback]

Sure, it sounds bad, but look at the bigger picture:

"the brutally tortured body" is Jesus. He was tortured and killed for us. For humanity, because He loves us. An act of love.
Besides, we aren't worshipping the tortured body. We're worshipping the Creator. The body is the symbol of His love!

eating the Body of Christ and drinking the Blood of Christ symbolizes how He sacrificed Himself so we could live. Again, an act of love.

It looks bad, but it really isn't. It's the opposite.

So the Almighty chooses to show love through pain and death... devil.gif

You know....it sort of fits right in!
Bloody and violent history.
Bloody and violent followers.
Bloody and violent Holy book.
Bloody and violent God!
saucy
Here's a fact...the Catholics screwed everything up. #1 Jesus is no longer on the cross. They shouldn't be hanging up crosses with a bloody Jesus on them. #2--Communion is not eating the body of Christ or drinking His blood. It's in rememberance of the torn flesh and blood that He spilled for us when He died. Man, I hate to see fake religion messing things up.
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(saucy @ Jul 19 2006, 06:06 PM) [snapback]1275924[/snapback]

Here's a fact...the Catholics screwed everything up. I hate to see fake religion messing things up.

Catholics??? like all those billions of catholics...wow how did you ever get that info from every last catholic

Tell me sinse you are so ignorant to say its a FAKE religion....here a pop quiz for ya SAUCY...

How the feck can Catholic be called a RELIGION??? hmm.gif

News Flash coming right up.... -- >> It BELONGS to a RELIGION..that is called --- CHRISTIANITY w00t.gif so what would that make it then??? any ideas??
a................................Religious FAITH within Christianity???Religious domination within the christianity RELIGION??? rofl.gif I can't believe you didn't know that...didn't you say you where a minister LOL??? umm dude I think you need to brush up on PROPPER Religious studies...cuz I dont know where you get your info from

Want help?? ..ok then....

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

if ya like...

Christianity

History of Christianity
Timeline of Christianity
The Apostles
Ecumenical councils
Great Schism
The Crusades
Reformation

The Trinity
God the Father
God the Son (Jesus Christ)
God the Holy Spirit

The Bible
Old Testament · LXX
New Testament
Apocrypha
The Gospels
Ten Commandments
Sermon on the Mount

Christian theology
Fall of Man · Grace
Salvation · Justification
Christian worship
Antichrist

Christian Church
Roman Catholicism
Orthodox Christianity
Anglicanism
Protestantism
Anabaptism

Christian denominations

Denominations

Christianity is comprised of four major divisions of Churches: Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Protestant. Denomination typically refers to one of the many Protestant churches. Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians, etc. are colloquially called denominations.

Linky -- >
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_denomination

And one last thing...can you prove ANY religious faith to be true or false??? I dont think ya can happy.gif
mako
QUOTE
To me Jesus set a trend or an example of what life is really like under Babylon system through him he can save our souls from slavery war & pain so man can find hope in the darkest corners of the Earth.



He can save us from slavery? Let’s look at history….
The early Church did indeed draw support from slaves, yet it never condemned the practice of slavery. It’s holy writ and that adopted from Judaism endorse the enslavement of others and for 1800 years aided and abetted this barbaric practice. Going so far as to teach that slavery was in accordance with Divine will! Ambrosiaster, in the 4th century CE, compounded this by offering up the idea that slavery originated with Noah’s curse upon Ham. Inferring that Ham’s son Canaan had turned black before settling in Africa, so in the true biblical justice, it was inflicted on all subsequent descendents. The centuries of enslavement and torture of millions of Africans is founded on a mythological yarn of drunken revelry!

When it came to power, the church was already a major slave owner and rapidly negated the laws of Rome that concerned the rights of slaves and the possibility of obtaining freedom…Christian slavery was for life. The Council of Gangra in 340 CE decreed, “If anyone, on the pretext of religion teaches another man’s lave to despise his master, and to withdraw from his service, and not to serve his master with good will and respect, let him be anathema.” This was in reaction to Manicheans (a so-called heretical sect of Christianity)urging slaves to free themselves. This remained the standard Christian attitude during the intervening centuries, then with the discovery of the New World the Pope (Alexander VI) gave permission to enslave the natives and other non-believers in the Bull Eximiae Devotionis, 1493: “…full and free permission to invade, search out, capture and subjugate the Saracens and pagans and any other unbelievers and enemies of Christ wherever they may be, as well as their kingdoms, duchies, counties, principalities and other properties and to reduce their persons into perpetual slavery!” That those citizens of the southern states believed that the Confederacy was the last true Christian civilization is show by the pronouncement of the President of the Baptist State Convention, Rev Richard Furman, in Charleston, Dec 24, 1822, “On the lawfulness of holding slaves … the right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example. I think you can see that your god does not save anyone from slavery, in fact he advocates enslaving the lesser developed.

QUOTE
Here's a fact...the Catholics screwed everything up. #1 Jesus is no longer on the cross. They shouldn't be hanging up crosses with a bloody Jesus on them. #2--Communion is not eating the body of Christ or drinking His blood. It's in rememberance of the torn flesh and blood that He spilled for us when He died. Man, I hate to see fake religion messing things up.


I assume you are calling the Catholics a fake religion…well, unless you are a hold-out Arian or Manichean, your sect is descended from Catholicism and if religions had DNA, your sects genetic makeup would be closer to Catholic than Chimpanzee is to Man! As for communion, Jesus said, “…Take, eat: this is my body.” And then he gave the cup to them and they all drank of it and he said, “this is my blood…” I see nothing that says that it is in remembrance of the torn flesh and blood he shed. He specifies that it (the host and wine) is his body and blood to take and eat! Ritual cannibalism is a dogma of Christianity! yes.gif
Paranoid Android
Yes, Mako, Protestants and Catholics hail from the same roots, but that is why Protestants are called "Protestants" - protesters of the Catholic teaching. Luther, Calvin, et al, after studying the Bible (regular Catholics in those days had no access to Bible's, only the church and their priesthood had such) came to the conclusion that many hold today - that the Catholic church had it wrong. Rather than stay silent (which many had throughout history), they had the conviction of Faith to stand up and say "Hey, this is wrong". They attempted to get the Catholic church to revert to biblical teachings but failed, and thus left the Catholic church in protest, thus starting up a new branch of.

While I don't blame Catholics for changing and/or not following the BIble (for it was the papacy within the early church, not modern-day believers who did this), nor do I condemn a Catholic for choosing to be Catholic, Saucy has a valid point.

mako
QUOTE
but that is why Protestants are called "Protestants" - protesters of the Catholic teaching

And after they protested, they continued with 99.9% of the Catholic teachings. You might want to check out the horror, torment and death that resulted from the actions and teachings of Calvin, Luther and others! They seemed bent on teaching the Catholic Church how to persecute non-believers and heretics! yes.gif
Bella-Angelique
Hold out Arian <----------

I consider the concept of a Trinity non-biblical.
mako
But you are a latter day Arian, you were not born into an Arian congregation, but instead chose the belief after you learned of it. You are descended from the Catholic/Protestant branch of Christianity with along with the Orthodox and Coptic branches are the only extant Christianity today. All else are resurgences, similar to Wicca and Pagan resurgences. yes.gif
Darkwind
QUOTE(Hermetic Hermit @ May 24 2006, 06:33 PM) [snapback]1203735[/snapback]

Imagine for a monent you had never heard of Christianity or Christ for that matter. Unaware you find yourself in a Church during Mass.

Those attending move to the front to eat "The Body of Christ" and drink "The Blood of Christ". Looking up from this display you see a large image of the brutally tortured body of an individual.
What would your thoughts be of this apparent act of ritual cannibalism and the worship of this image of torture?



A lot would depend on my current belief system. If my tribe practiced trial by ordeal and cannibalism I would think we must have the same Gods. devil.gif

If not, I would start asking questions fast and maybe do a Jack Sparrow. ohmy.gif
(Heck I do that now. w00t.gif )
GIDEON MAGE
QUOTE(Bella-Angelique @ Jul 20 2006, 10:23 AM) [snapback]1277065[/snapback]

Hold out Arian <----------

I consider the concept of a Trinity non-biblical.

The entire concept of Christianity is non-biblical. I remember my earliest experiences in xian churches. I can definitely state, as a non-xian, feelings of forboding, especially, but not limited to , rcc churches.

QUOTE
And after they protested, they continued with 99.9% of the Catholic teachings. You might want to check out the horror, torment and death that resulted from the actions and teachings of Calvin, Luther and others! They seemed bent on teaching the Catholic Church how to persecute non-believers and heretics!


I agree 100%. The fervor against non-xians was even worse in protestant countries. They also made sure life was hell for catholics, not to mention Jews and pagans, especially in "Jolly Ole England" and its colonies.
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