You know a regular heathy number of Iraqi's have been slaughtered every day since the end of the war. OK, perhaps with careful research you will find the numbers are daily and above 15 per day.

Would you then bat an eye lid knowing that these attacks are american coordinated ?


Or that the origin of any terror action group is not religious originated, but nurtured through cooperated political starvation ?
No, nor me, but I have been hassled about this for three years by friends and finally i find this article.

http://truthpackagemachine.blogspot.com/20...ath-squads.html


sand pit is to the left gentlemen. Holes ready made. Ignorace is as valid as guilty in some courts though. Americans should have taken down the whitehouse by now, what's really going on to her people ?

well its concise and the arguement sways to the left, the extreme left.

Ever hear of Abraham Maslow?

He described the "heirarchy of values". An unconsciously known value system that is absolute to the human primordial mind.

What has happned to America is that corporations were enabled to use media unaccountably to manipulate the symbolisms of culture with semiotic, psychology controlling society, in order to increase profit, and weaken independance in the people or their ability to agree and cooperate and ressit assimilation.

Corporations have worked on creating as many differences as possible and reasons not to communicate directly or at all, unless at a supervised event. Military $ developed the web because testing showed that people had a difficult time making meaningful alliances with just text and images between them. They found technical ways to control the flow of data, over all reducing the communications between people in the same region.

Exploitations of instincts through manipulating symols has created blind consumerism. So blind that a group of adults cannot sit down and agree on the differences between what they want and what they need, if they were ever empowered to get together.

A new instinct was found, or a dynamic of several old ones, "Attitude", like a social medium of brute grace, automatic demand for respect.

Its +\- truth, US forces do a lot of illegal stuff over there as well as mercanaries, there has been many terror acts which look very un-Islamic.
Anyway with this kind of propoganda machine, US forces can do whatever they want in Iraq and only sometimes someone will get caught (like with these 7 marines who killed 24 civilians for fun).
Anyway there was no terrorism before the Attack on Iraq and now its in large numbers, so acctualy US created this terrorism and is creating even it now.
Who are these terrorists, mainly, yeah, they, arent heartless bastards, they are just a humans too, but they are blined by hate which is created by US so we need to blame both sides.

One report (2004) is indicating an estimated total of 100,000 deaths in Iraq mostly women and children, but does not include the number of wounded Iraqi civilians <-- caused by US forces.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0411/S00025.htm

One case: In a major Baghdad hospital, 12-year-old Fatima Harouz lay in her bed, dazed, amid a crowded hospital room. She limply waved her bruised arm at the flies that buzzed over the bed. Her shins, shattered by bullets when American soldiers fired through the front door of her house, were both covered in casts. Small plastic drainage bags filled with red fluid sat upon her abdomen, where she had taken shrapnel from another bullet.

She was from Latifiya, a city just south of Baghdad. Three days before I saw her, soldiers had attacked her home. Her mother, standing with us in the hospital, said, "They attacked our home and there weren't even any resistance fighters in our area." Her brother had been shot and killed, his wife wounded, and their home ransacked by soldiers. "Before they left, they killed all of our chickens," added Fatima's mother, her eyes a mixture of fear, shock, and rage. A doctor who was with us as Fatima's mother narrated the story looked at me and sternly asked, "This is the freedom … in their Disney Land are there kids just like this?"

The doctors' anger was mild if we consider the magnitude of suffering that has been inflicted upon the children of Iraq as a direct result of first the U.S.-backed sanctions and then the failed U.S. occupation.

So my point is that US is creating this terrorism, like if I would be brother of 12-year-old Fatima Harouz I would be mad as well and would join some freedom fighter organizations as well and I would count as a terrorist.
So only one who can stop terrorism is USA by pulling out of occupied countrys and cut the crap with this "war on terror".
And if we count all civilians, US forces are the biggest terrorist in the middle east and thats a fact.

Talking about US made terror acts to provoke more violence and excuses to stay is not nothing new, there are many stories about this.

Does anyone have a breakdown of how many of the civilian deaths in Iraq are the result of insugent killings and deaths from insurgent placed IEDs?

One would think that would be an important number to have for evaluating whos to blame....or doesn't it matter?

the word insurgent is a polarizing political tool of the LIARS that sent our boys over there to protect the interests of israel-- if a young boy is seen running into a house to hide after throwing a rock at a tank,him and everyone inside the building just got labeled "insurgents" or the harborers of the same and just as guilty--INSURGENT=CITIZEN-- we are in iraq because of LIES and continue our occupation because of criminals within the american govt-- there is NO IRAQI MILITARY and the majority of ieds are the result of british and american intelligence psy ops(they've been caught red-handed MORE THAN ONCE) with the same purpose as 9/11,to divide the people through manufactured terror by using media and propaganda to spin the truth during the peoples trauma induced state-- c'mon those people can hardly find food and water yet we are supposed to accept the notion that they can muster up lbs of C4 a day?--

Now there can be no way in hell you actually believe that.

...then again, the "psy-ops" of the conspiracy theorists sure did a job on you.

One's terrorist can easily be anothers revolutionist. This can work vice versa, either for the Iraqi's or the Americans.

but according to dennison he states that terrorist by definition is a government in and of itself lol

exactly. terrorist... or ...freedom fighter. same thing, opposite view on them.

Thats just way too simplistic. A "black/white" slogan.

OK, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5026378.stm




The good news is, they uncovered masses of bomb making equipment, the bad news is the equipment was too sofisticated for Iraqi builds, must have been american or soviet or even british manufactured.


I don't buy this Multinational corp making more and more money out of war unless they need it to make legit these continual merger options being made in the stock markets. Do they really need money to consolodate two companies owned by the same dark forces ?



Do a google on David icke's site, he holds the numbers.


In truth, I don't give a damn, because all I will do is write and sleep safely in my bed without putting my life at risk, or maybe not.

yes it is, your point?

my comment is just. it depends on a persons veiw on whether a person is a terrorist or a freedom fighter.

what, you thought it was more complicated.

Dpends on who buys the freedom fighter's mind. Like the way we allowed the west to down trade africa, the same has been happening in the Middle east to a point where CIA paid institutions were set up to train the disolutioned kids in their market poverty countries to hate the west and become Islamic freedom fighters, the proof is online, on TV and should be known by all. Massage the markets to make a country poor then seed insurgence ideology=freedom fighters. That is unless there is a popularist movement, like for the French resistance in WWII.

The opposite to `freedom fighters` are those who see no evil, speak no evil and hear `nothin at all`. But I don't thoink Americans would ever allow Bush or his successor to invade Iran. But then again, change the face of the Prez and Joe Bloggs sighs relief thinking it now OK to remain seated on his hands. Not me.

The Nazis believed they were right in what they were doing. Did their belief of being right therefore make them right? No.

A person who rapes and kills little girls and takes great joy in it somehow doesn't see the 'wrongness' of their acts. Because they fail to see the wrongness does that make their acts less wrong? No.

The Insurgency is not an Iraqi Nationalist protecting our country kind of thing....it is a pro-Sadaam (Which equals pro-little girl raping and murdering) loyal fight till the death kind of thing...plus, ...and mostly...it is an Iranian Insurgency. Neither the Iranians nor the Syrians want democracy in Iraq. Why would they? It only means that their governments are going to loose power as democracy increases.

Do you know what democracy really is? What it boils down to in reality is that you can sit at your computer and feed your opinions to the world without impunity. Insurgents want to destroy that....freedom fighters are fighting for that. Freedom is not just a point of view.

I just "love" people like you who thinks of being hero and freedom figher, US ILLEGALY occupys a country , then kills a lot of people and harass them daily and now claim themselfs as a freedom fighters..just pathetic..
You are brainwashed.

My point is that simplistic slogans are not reality...Yet reality exists. Your idea that its simply a "view" that creates either a "freedom fighter" or a "terrorist" is just wrong. Freedom has a definition. It implies the indivdual right to choose one thing over another. If there is a force that fights for this..that would would be a freedom fighter...if theres a force that SAYS they fight of those things, but in reality would kill you if they gained power and you disagreed with them...it doesn't matter what the hell they CALL themselves, reality makes them anything but "freedom fighters". A freedom fighter or a terrorist IS NOT just a point of view. Thats a simplistic slogan and a lame rationalization.

So do you think that Sad-Ham Whos-Sane?'s rule was all up and up legal?...his elections? were all fair and square?..his butchering brutality was the "good kind"?..pathetic!

I see what you mean, but who cares what Saddam does in his country. Right or Wrong? Many people are slowly adopting the ideology required for the new world order. Instead of having competing nation states you want a higher authority over the nations to make decisions based on human rights for the world, to then be enforced by global authorities. Today it's America doing the policing. I assume you are American, as I am, so it's not that bad when the US is doing the policing, but what happens when it becomes our rival policing the world including enforcing global controls on American citizens, overriding our own constitution? What if China was doing the same thing? Who's going to save the US citizens from our corrupt leadership?

I didn't know joc was a yankee...

And you are US basher with nothing better to do. I guess we should have kept the wonderful Sadam in power. NOT. The truth is that there will never be peace anywhere over there. It shows how religon can pervert peace and cause war.

You again?
I am not a US basher, I respect open-minded americans like scoobysnack, but I deeply disrespect americans who are puppets of elite.

You are a puppet of your conspiracy mind. Learn to think.

Ok, I will try a bit:

Bush is great, I love how he is liberating people from evil dictators like Sadam is. There is no such things like NWO. Bohemian grove is just a club where men go to drink beer.
All muslims are terrorists and cowards. Rumsfeld is a great man.
I think its ok for US marines to kill some innocent people, they are so far from home they need some fun!
Skulls and Bones is a good organization, i am proud that Bush and his buddys are members of it.
9/11 was done by evil terrorists and I think that Afghanistan needs to suffer because of it.
Naa, naa, war in Iraq isnt about power and greed.

The end.

Ok I just sounded like you and your narrow-minded buddys, is that the way of learning to think?
Well i dont think so, I feel like I just lost some IQ points.

All that shows is that you don't understand the position of your opposition.

See you have somethings right. The only IQ points you loose are from reading too many conspiracy websites.

LOL. The problem is ..thats not thinking on your part. You're just parroting what you've been told to ...crystal pure brainwashing on your part..and oblivious of the fact.

Wtf?

this topic is all perspective...

So a whole nation needs to pay because of one group?
How about a group of Americans kill some random countries people in a riot or something, then the whole American nation must die. You make me sick…

Perhaps a better mentality for a supposed NWO would be to have people not care what happens in other countries, that way they can do whatever they want without interference...



Rest assured you didnt. You'd need to have IQ points in the first place for that to happen.



The same can be said about certain members who are on the other side of the spectrum.

Thats true providing that there is at least an indication...if not evidence, that the issues are not being addressed in favor of broad sweeping generalities.

It seems very consistant the the people on the side of debunking CTs tend to stay on topic while the CTs always jump not only from one topic to another, but from one generation to another in what seems to be an attempt to deflect from addressing the topic or point they have no answer for.

This trait, to me seems much more in line with the responses of blind belief rather than researched information.

....HIS country?? If you can't see the hypocracy of whats implied in that statement...well I just don't know what you're getting at. On the one hand you seem sooo concerned about "humanity"..and whats right or wrong....and then say "Who cares what a brutal butcher does to the innocent citizens of HIS country".

How does that work in your mind??..Please connect the dots for everyone.

Take an asprin and call me in the morning.

I think you read my comment wrong. I wasnt implying its the terrorist's/freedom fighters view, I was implying that its the by-standers view, on said terrorist/freedom fighter. I know terrorists or freedom fighters don't veiw themselves the same, but in fact they are.

terrorists - fighting for freedom on the opposite side. Freedom fighters - fighting for freedom on your side.

Could be a misunderstanding. My point was reality vs. perception/opinion. It is not the same thing.

How completely absurd! Please define 'freedom'. On one side there is the freedom to say what you want, to practice whatever religion you prefer or none at all...on the other side there is the freedom to rape your young daughters and then kill you and your wife if you complain about it, there is the freedom to torture and maim all who disagree with you...

May I remind you that the US did not invade Iraq until after they were forced to disam. Only then did those butchers move in for the slaughter. What our American "war heroes" are doing in Iraq on a daily basis is a worse crime against humanity than the holoocaust. It is also anti-semitic. The troops are taught to think of the Arabs as "untermenschen" or subhuman.
And the worse thing is that while those troops are conducting their sadistic escapades, they themselves are being poisoned with depleted uranium.
When they come back to civilian life with all their problems, they often join your local police force and continue their sadism on US citizens.
"killing is our business; business is good." that little motto of the US Marines says paragraphs. Guilty as charged.

I don't like you.

Of course.



Oh, they are, are they? Did you just think that up all by yourself?



Yes, look how evil the police are...



It only says "paragraphs" to those ignorant of what it really is like in the military.

Marine bumper sticker I saw:

To err is human, to forgive is divine....

... neither is Marine Corp policy!

You're making that crap up as you go.

Anyone who makes such an outrageous and obviously ignorant claim should back it up with some evidence.

..."move in for the slaughter"..."butchers"..anti-semite"..worse crime against humanity than the holocaust"..taught to think ..sub-human".."sadistic escapades"......poor brainwashed robot.

He had pretty good post over there, US marines do treat Iraqis as animals, they dont let them close if they look suspicious they get shot, woman cant get past them without being harassed and war crimes happen there on daily base. Yes I have talked with some bastards who have returned from Iraq and they are pretty aware of situation over there.
Of course there are good soldiers as well, but ,hell, too much ****heads to count, thats why people like me need to bash/whine, call it whatevr you want, about this situaton so US army leaders start doing something about this.
But they are not doing a **** because of pro-americans like you, they say "oh if we have so many supporters at home , its ok" , you are supporting this crimes, you are criminal supporter lol.
And yes, many marines are bloody anti-semites because of this harassement.

Pretty simple, Iraqi people would have revolted and demonstrated against the American troops by now if they are seen as the real terrorist. Few groups blowing up everyone does not represent the Iraqi people.

Thats total crap. Where do you get that information?

Form a soldier who had served in Iraq, he was a friend of my friend and a total asshole, he even said one story about car crash, like they crashed into Iraqi civilian car and civilian started whining about it and that these soldiers need to pay for his car now..what did they do? They kicked his ass and went away.
And there is a lot of these cases, solders over there has no respect for muslims , even worse they dont like them, they think that they are mindless animals.

And where do you get your info about soldiers in Iraq which are , as you think, heroes and freedom fighters who do good deeds and love Iraqi childrens and never harass their woman..

Freedom - to be unrestricted, unconfined or unfettered. (Iraq are fettered by america for their oil, confined by military forces. even when Iraq gets a more stable democracy, how long do you think the militeries will carry on staying there... until they get large amounts of oil? )

(also take notice of the word "militaries" thus stating a military presence other than americans)

and please... raping only goes on in iraq eh? how closed-eye you are to everything else. rapings go in america, england, germany, france (do you really want me to carry on through all these countries?)

yeah, by the way... you DO understand that iraq was under a dictator right? meaning they didnt have a choice in anything in their lives but only what sadam said was okay. and now throwing him in jail (not saying thats a bad thing, he was rightfully moved out of power) and throwing democracy, which iraq has never experienced in the modern world, did you really think it would have worked like a charm? please... as you say "How completely absurd"

Terrorism or Freedom Fighter, depends on the bystanders view on said person.



yeah... I guess thats because they'd either get blown up, and the women are forced to smuggle weaponary or explosives.

every man fights a battle deep within his own self ...and that is were it should be fought.


ghandi


ok its almost exact word for word but the message is there

there is two forces good bad
death life
god devil

love hate
evil good

not any nation or country is realy the responsible party,..think about it we all have a responsibility to ourselves and eachother and the forces we choose to support or destry that balance. we ,.each one of us 100 feet away perhaps might another be there next door across the street inside ourselves or across the seas a cerial killer hater evil aborbed impulses we dont know who is who anymore its time to start putting a framework on a politacl historical fact or event ,.cowboys and indians persay cops and robbers . we are all humankind and we should know better now more than ever that something besides our own better judgement should be a guideline for trust safety security or roll on hells confusion coaster to sprial down hill to crash or puke up such hated blame and other uncontructive or produvive ways to compromise mankind ,...being that we are all human mankind . if the battle is inside you as a question of what? youll soon find a way to make it or brake it time just tells my life as it goes on its going to get even herder to make such sound desicions .. caught in the crossfire ...



sorry got a little key happy
but its each man for him self now by himself or with support from a strength like no other a good one a sound judgement a good heart together as a group is when man does his best acheivements.
onward

Abecrombie a lil tired here but thanks realy no autographs pleases lol

yes it is, reality is defined by ones own mind (his perception). but I understand what you are saying

So you talk to one guy who has a story and says that there are more. "kicked his ass"...thats it?..not butcher?..no cutting ears off ala Saddam?..no murdering his child in front of him?...but I digress.

Surely you can see how someone may think you arrive at conclusions from a strong bias?

You talk to 1 and that = all..or most..or at least enough to form the conclusion that its representative of the behavior in general.

If you spoke to 20 soldiers or Iraqis who had a different story..how would you fit it in? Would you say that THEY'RE the exception and the 1 is the rule just to fit your bias..or what?