Full Version: Corn fed or grass fed?
wow why do u think cows eaty so much? because they can only break down a small portion of the grass they eat so they need to eat more and more and more grazing is the most efficent eating type there is. why do u tihnk they need to do it so much? because its efficnent in that they eat alot not efficent in that they cant get all the nutrients from it. alpha bonds they cannot break down. its amazing that u do not see how close buffalo and cattle physicly are to eachother. they graze the same way behave the same way and break down food the same way.
I still don't see how cows 'are not meant' to eat corn...They do.
okay first off lets get this steight can we all tell the differance between corn and grass?
can we see that they are 2 completely different things? with different moelcules makeing them up?
cows are better suited to eat grass that is how they evolved they graze on grass... would they have eaten corn in the wild? it's possible but it would never have been their main source of nutrition it is was they would have been better suited to eat it now which they aren't becuse it makes them sick and we have to give them medicins that inturn make us sick...
it's not practacle and arguing over grass and corn being the same isn't helping at all becuase we can all tell they are very different....
can we see that they are 2 completely different things? with different moelcules makeing them up?
cows are better suited to eat grass that is how they evolved they graze on grass... would they have eaten corn in the wild? it's possible but it would never have been their main source of nutrition it is was they would have been better suited to eat it now which they aren't becuse it makes them sick and we have to give them medicins that inturn make us sick...
it's not practacle and arguing over grass and corn being the same isn't helping at all becuase we can all tell they are very different....
Manapa thanks for posting on this thread 
Frog to answer your question about whuy a cow isnot a grain eater.....
The co-evolutionary relationship between a cow and grass is one of nature's most unappreciated wonders.It also happens to be the key to understanding everything about modern meat.....the grasser which has evolved to withstand the grazing of remnets, the cow maintains and expands their habitat by preventing trees and shrubs from gaining 'domination" and hogging the sunlight..the animal aalso spreads grass seed, plants it with its hooves, then fertilizes it with his manure, in exchange the grasses that grow provide the cows with lunch thus the cirlce of life as it happens naturally... See these animals have this special ability to convert these grasses iinto a high quality protien..they have a very highly evolved digestive organ called a rumen...nature has provided us with an excellent system.....yet it takes time and what industry doesn't have is time.....How does a 80 pound steer get to 1,100 lbs in fourteen months??????In days of past a steer reached slaughter at 5 years or better(before the fast food revolution)
A cow will reach slaughter with tremendous amounts of corn ( remeber this is not there natural food, protien, and fat supplements, and a arsenal of new drugs.....weaning defines the moment (within days )this animal begins its journey to your dinner plate....weaning is the hardest time for the animal and farmer alike the animal will bellow and cry for days the stress often makes the calves sick ( there are a few reasons this is done so soon one is to free the mother to have more calves and to get the animals ready for the feedlot.......
the truth is a animal that is feed grain isn't gonna have any measure of health after about 150 days, their systems can't handle it, the first thing that happens is they bloat remember the rumen i mentioned , the corn produces a horrendous amount of gas in the rumen which would normally be released through belching by runminatioin, but there diets contain way too much starch and not enough roughage and the rumen inflates like a balloon and a foamy slime forms and that traps the gas until it presses against the animals lungs, unless action is taken immediatlely the animal will suffocate, (the action usually taken is a hose forced down the animals esophogas to release the gas....)
A concentrated diet of corn can give an animal acidosis, a cows rumen is neutral unlike ours which is acid , corn is acidic and it creates a kind of heartburn that can kill the animal, but it ususally makes them sick ..Acidotic animals go off their feed, pant and salivate excessively, paw and scratch their bellies and eat dirt..This often leads to diarreah, ulcers, bloat, rumentitis,liver disease, and general weaking of the immune sytem that leaves the animal at peril for a myriad of feedlot disease such as pneumonia, coccidiosis, enterotoxemia, feedlot polio...Just like humans animals are susceptatble to all sorts of disease too.....more often than not this diet blows out there livers, over time the acid eats throught he rumen wall and the bacterias enter the animals blood stream, these microbes end up in the liver which impairs the livers funtions...So you see antiobiotics are needed for some semblence of kindness to these animals.....
Frog to answer your question about whuy a cow isnot a grain eater..... The co-evolutionary relationship between a cow and grass is one of nature's most unappreciated wonders.It also happens to be the key to understanding everything about modern meat.....the grasser which has evolved to withstand the grazing of remnets, the cow maintains and expands their habitat by preventing trees and shrubs from gaining 'domination" and hogging the sunlight..the animal aalso spreads grass seed, plants it with its hooves, then fertilizes it with his manure, in exchange the grasses that grow provide the cows with lunch thus the cirlce of life as it happens naturally... See these animals have this special ability to convert these grasses iinto a high quality protien..they have a very highly evolved digestive organ called a rumen...nature has provided us with an excellent system.....yet it takes time and what industry doesn't have is time.....How does a 80 pound steer get to 1,100 lbs in fourteen months??????In days of past a steer reached slaughter at 5 years or better(before the fast food revolution)
A cow will reach slaughter with tremendous amounts of corn ( remeber this is not there natural food, protien, and fat supplements, and a arsenal of new drugs.....weaning defines the moment (within days )this animal begins its journey to your dinner plate....weaning is the hardest time for the animal and farmer alike the animal will bellow and cry for days the stress often makes the calves sick ( there are a few reasons this is done so soon one is to free the mother to have more calves and to get the animals ready for the feedlot.......
the truth is a animal that is feed grain isn't gonna have any measure of health after about 150 days, their systems can't handle it, the first thing that happens is they bloat remember the rumen i mentioned , the corn produces a horrendous amount of gas in the rumen which would normally be released through belching by runminatioin, but there diets contain way too much starch and not enough roughage and the rumen inflates like a balloon and a foamy slime forms and that traps the gas until it presses against the animals lungs, unless action is taken immediatlely the animal will suffocate, (the action usually taken is a hose forced down the animals esophogas to release the gas....)
A concentrated diet of corn can give an animal acidosis, a cows rumen is neutral unlike ours which is acid , corn is acidic and it creates a kind of heartburn that can kill the animal, but it ususally makes them sick ..Acidotic animals go off their feed, pant and salivate excessively, paw and scratch their bellies and eat dirt..This often leads to diarreah, ulcers, bloat, rumentitis,liver disease, and general weaking of the immune sytem that leaves the animal at peril for a myriad of feedlot disease such as pneumonia, coccidiosis, enterotoxemia, feedlot polio...Just like humans animals are susceptatble to all sorts of disease too.....more often than not this diet blows out there livers, over time the acid eats throught he rumen wall and the bacterias enter the animals blood stream, these microbes end up in the liver which impairs the livers funtions...So you see antiobiotics are needed for some semblence of kindness to these animals.....
sherri do u knwo waht a rumen is? whats ur defination of one
Robbie part of participating in a discussion is reading the material, the post above you tells what a rumen is and I also talk about it quite a bit on the feedlot thread......
no u never once said what a rumen was. from how u tlak aobut it questions weither u realy know what it is or not. hence i asked
Robbie give me a break...The Feedlot explains it and a few posts above....lol You make me laugh........ha ha ha ha ha
i didnt think this was hard i wanted to hear u say what a rumen was. u stil havent done that for me yet. why not? jsut say what u think a rumen is.
QUOTE(robbieb @ Jun 1 2006, 04:38 PM) [snapback]1213818[/snapback]
i didnt think this was hard i wanted to hear u say what a rumen was. u stil havent done that for me yet. why not? jsut say what u think a rumen is.
why are you acting like a 3 year old?
you're arguing just for the sake of argument, this in no way adds to the discussion and you're taking it off topic for what seems to be your own personal means to attack someone else
if you do however have something to add to the discussion then please by all means...
but if all you're going to do is argue just to make your self feel better then you can take it somewhere else. personaly i'm very interested int his discussion and i would like to see it stay civil...
no i do have ap int behind this if she would only answer.
so in other words because you're a zooologist you want her to restate something you can say is wrong so you feel better?
eventhough we've already went over the fact that corn is definantly different then grass and cows are most certainly evolved to eat such things as grass and not corn as a main ingrediant in their diet?
if you're trolling now would be the time to stop becuse it's not making you look to good
eventhough we've already went over the fact that corn is definantly different then grass and cows are most certainly evolved to eat such things as grass and not corn as a main ingrediant in their diet?
if you're trolling now would be the time to stop becuse it's not making you look to good
QUOTE(robbieb @ May 31 2006, 11:47 AM) [snapback]1212448[/snapback]
wow why do u think cows eaty so much? because they can only break down a small portion of the grass they eat so they need to eat more and more and more grazing is the most efficent eating type there is. why do u tihnk they need to do it so much? because its efficnent in that they eat alot not efficent in that they cant get all the nutrients from it. alpha bonds they cannot break down. its amazing that u do not see how close buffalo and cattle physicly are to eachother. they graze the same way behave the same way and break down food the same way.
Hi. Way to repeat everything I just said...
Except the buffalo part. Yes, speaking in physiology, cattle and bison are closely knit, but they aren't the same animal. They graze the same way. But don't judge a book by its cover. They are still quite different. I'll explain my reasoning in a sec..
QUOTE(manapa99 @ May 31 2006, 10:38 PM) [snapback]1213112[/snapback]
okay first off lets get this steight can we all tell the differance between corn and grass?
can we see that they are 2 completely different things? with different moelcules makeing them up?
cows are better suited to eat grass that is how they evolved they graze on grass... would they have eaten corn in the wild? it's possible but it would never have been their main source of nutrition it is was they would have been better suited to eat it now which they aren't becuse it makes them sick and we have to give them medicins that inturn make us sick...
it's not practacle and arguing over grass and corn being the same isn't helping at all becuase we can all tell they are very different....
Thank you. I think you get my point - It's not natural for these animals to be living the life they live, but we are forcing them to adapt with "medications"... We looked for the quick fix so that these animals could live like machines and now, are paying for it. And you guys are fighting about corn? There's a larger problem at hand. I'm not into trying to convince others to be a veggie, I just want people to be educated, as many of you are not.. This is just a subject that is really important. To me, and to the animals that get stuck in steel cages, and beaten.
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ May 31 2006, 10:46 PM) [snapback]1213123[/snapback]
A concentrated diet of corn can give an animal acidosis, a cows rumen is neutral unlike ours which is acid , corn is acidic and it creates a kind of heartburn that can kill the animal, but it ususally makes them sick ..Acidotic animals go off their feed, pant and salivate excessively, paw and scratch their bellies and eat dirt..This often leads to diarreah, ulcers, bloat, rumentitis,liver disease, and general weaking of the immune sytem that leaves the animal at peril for a myriad of feedlot disease such as pneumonia, coccidiosis, enterotoxemia, feedlot polio.
Point one: Weaning is extremely harsh on the animals, you're right, but generally it is only dairy cows who are weaned early. All animals need to be weaned at some point, and it's never an easy process. Even weaning kittens or puppies, it's always hard. Dairy cows have it the worst, as their kids are taken away from them, the calves are used for veal, and we take her milk. As for beef cows though, the only time they would wean the young is if the calf was to be used for veal. Otherwise it is better to leave them together, since the cow will stop eating/drinking under stress. The other reason, is that orphaned calves need a lot of care, like any animal. I've raised a handful of farm animals.. lambie's, piglets, calves, foals, chicks, goats etc.. All of them are definately tricky and require time.. Once they lose the will to live, they just fall apart. Also, if weaned before proper age, a calf won't eat hay/water at all, since it just wants its mother's milk. But anyways.. If they wean the calves for veal, that's all the better in my opinion. They wouldn't have to go through a life of misery. Sad though... Baby cows are such sweethearts.
Sheri - where do you get your info? I'd be interested in reading it, if you could post.
About acidosis - It sounds a lot like colic, which I know horses can get, but am unsure as to how popular it is with cattle. I know horses can colic from a high-grain diet. It makes them hot, and creates gas. It can create blockages and "twists" in their intestines. It can lead to their insides bursting, basically. It's extremely painful for them. Symptoms are sweating, biting and kicking at sides/stomach, rolling, bloated/gantness, and so on. Very similar to acidosis.
Anyways - feedlot animals are treated like machines - that's my main problem. We treat them horribly and expect them to be able to keep up, and when they can't, we pump them full of drugs. Woooonderful.
I don't care if we feed them corn, because their lives are so short lived, if they die of colic or what have you, it's not any more brutal than their death. Feeding these animals a proper diet isn't going to make their lives any more enjoyable.
p.s: "robbieb Posted Today, 12:17 PM
no u never once said what a rumen was. from how u tlak aobut it questions weither u realy know what it is or not. hence i asked"
Robbie - there is no point in even saying that. Someone could just go google "rumen" and find out everything they need to know. Goes for you too. But just to clarify, I think she knows what it is, as she is talking like she knows what it is, and it's the first part of their stomach.
And I just realized I didn't explain how buffalo and cattle were different to robbie...
In all honesty, I don't want to repeat myself. Go read my post preceding my last one.
In all honesty, I don't want to repeat myself. Go read my post preceding my last one.
Robbie post # 54 on this thread paragraph one about mid way will explain to you what a rumen is......
But in any event if that is too complicated
A cow is a ruminant much like the sheep and bison and they have evolved this amazing ability to convert grass, which single tummy'd folks such as us can't digest...It makes a high quality protien the rumen that is thas why a cow should be eating grass not CORN...the rumen is a highly evolved digestive organ about the size of a medicine ball ( goggle if you don't know what it is 'robbie)in otherwords a 45 gallon fermentation tank on which bacteria dine.....
(manapa kids do this when they don't know something) This is a typical dialog appropriate to 8 year olds....Whats a rumen???? (the one that know asks this) The kid that dosen't know says" you are asking me cuz you don't know"......the kid that knows says "I know what it means already its a cows digestive organ" (much like my post 54)....the one that doesn't know says "no it isn't and says its not even a word" then the kid that knows will very firmly say "its a cows digestive organ...duh"...then the kid that doesn't know goes to his mom and asks? The mom says" its a cows digestive organ"..then the kid that dosen't know gets mad and goes home...........lol (((hugs to my 8 year for helping me with this))))))
But in any event if that is too complicated
A cow is a ruminant much like the sheep and bison and they have evolved this amazing ability to convert grass, which single tummy'd folks such as us can't digest...It makes a high quality protien the rumen that is thas why a cow should be eating grass not CORN...the rumen is a highly evolved digestive organ about the size of a medicine ball ( goggle if you don't know what it is 'robbie)in otherwords a 45 gallon fermentation tank on which bacteria dine.....
(manapa kids do this when they don't know something) This is a typical dialog appropriate to 8 year olds....Whats a rumen???? (the one that know asks this) The kid that dosen't know says" you are asking me cuz you don't know"......the kid that knows says "I know what it means already its a cows digestive organ" (much like my post 54)....the one that doesn't know says "no it isn't and says its not even a word" then the kid that knows will very firmly say "its a cows digestive organ...duh"...then the kid that doesn't know goes to his mom and asks? The mom says" its a cows digestive organ"..then the kid that dosen't know gets mad and goes home...........lol (((hugs to my 8 year for helping me with this))))))
beef cows are a cross they ARE part buffalo. they bred them to them years ago to get larger animals. this is why u cant tlak aobut cows without looking at buffalo they ARE linked.
my point with the rumen was plants are hard to digest becuase opf alpha bonds. that is why they evolved the reticulorumen orifice. as i stated earlier cows need to eat for the bulk to the day and needed to develope this complex digestive systmtem to get enough nutrients to survive. why do u tihnk cow manure is so good? because therer are alot of nutrients in it that the cow couldnt absorbe. but the grass can reabsorb them easily. if the cow took the bulk of the nutrients from it then its manure wouldnt be anywhere near as valuable.
my point with the rumen was plants are hard to digest becuase opf alpha bonds. that is why they evolved the reticulorumen orifice. as i stated earlier cows need to eat for the bulk to the day and needed to develope this complex digestive systmtem to get enough nutrients to survive. why do u tihnk cow manure is so good? because therer are alot of nutrients in it that the cow couldnt absorbe. but the grass can reabsorb them easily. if the cow took the bulk of the nutrients from it then its manure wouldnt be anywhere near as valuable.
You are a hoot robbie i'll give you a free pass on this one........ha ha ahahahahhaha
what are u trying to say sometihng in that is wrong?
NO robbie just chill okay.....do you know what punking is????????
Scratch great post 
QUOTE
beef cows are a cross they ARE part buffalo. they bred them to them years ago to get larger animals. this is why u cant tlak aobut cows without looking at buffalo they ARE linked.
i'm quite sure you are mistken about that statment in my 3 years of animal science we discussed in great detail the different breeds of cattle and many of which are traced back to europe almost as certain as horses and some are crossed with buffalo these are called beefalo and there is a very big differance between them and regular cows
nope not mistake at all yes if u breed a current cow with a buffalo it is called a beefalo but this is simialr to austrilian shepards are decendants of border collies and other breeds but if u breed it back to a border collie its not longer a austrilan shepard its mut. dont forget eropue has its bison too. in any demostication process there are traits in wild animals that are desired so bred to them to get the trait and then back to breeding the domesticated stock.
but what exactly does that have to do with us feeding them nothing but corn and then making them sick then giving them medicines that in turn make us sick?
nouthing.
i was responding to the remark of why i keep connecting cows with bison.
i was responding to the remark of why i keep connecting cows with bison.
QUOTE(robbieb @ May 31 2006, 01:38 AM) [snapback]1211646[/snapback]
that is prolby because u are eating ateak foprm diffrent parts of the body liek a sholder steak is usualy rough. or how the meat was kept or for how long or how it was cooked. not nesicceraly what the cow ate
A lot of reports and experts will say it has to do with the feed as well as how its cooked and what part of the animal it comes from
I sure wouldnt eat meat from a cow you looked half starved and didnt look all that healthy...would you???
QUOTE(robbieb @ Jun 1 2006, 07:17 PM) [snapback]1213692[/snapback]
no u never once said what a rumen was. from how u tlak aobut it questions weither u realy know what it is or not. hence i asked
The large first chamber of a ruminant animal’s stomach in which microorganisms break down plant cellulose before the food is returned to the mouth as cud for additional chewing.
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 1 2006, 07:49 PM) [snapback]1214090[/snapback]
A lot of reports and experts will say it has to do with the feed as well as how its cooked and what part of the animal it comes from
I sure wouldnt eat meat from a cow you looked half starved and didnt look all that healthy...would you???
but then that's the point some of the beef we get come form cows that have had to take somuch medicine and are so sick because of what they eat and the conditions they are raised in that many of us if we really knew the health of the cow before ahnd wouldn't eat it at all
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 2 2006, 11:49 AM) [snapback]1214090[/snapback]
A lot of reports and experts will say it has to do with the feed as well as how its cooked and what part of the animal it comes from
I sure wouldnt eat meat from a cow you looked half starved and didnt look all that healthy...would you???
i'm pretty sure that cows aren't underfed and yes i have seen cows eat anything!
QUOTE(manapa99 @ Jun 2 2006, 12:52 AM) [snapback]1214095[/snapback]
but then that's the point some of the beef we get come form cows that have had to take somuch medicine and are so sick because of what they eat and the conditions they are raised in that many of us if we really knew the health of the cow before ahnd wouldn't eat it at all
My grandfather used to sell all his live stock to meat markets and butchers...it was part of his business...he told me many years ago..his cows had to be fed right and kept healthy..otherwise he would lose out...he also kept a number of cows for milk....he had a huge farm...and he was a hunter...he used to go out shooting and bringing home somehting different each time for dinner and it was a hobby of his...he ket a lot of gun dogs...pretty much like the one I own - Springer Spaniel
My dog has never went hunting though..but when I have taken him out for walks over hte feilds he has killed a few magpies and rabbits.and I am the one that has to job of washing the blood off him..so I think Springer Spanials have it in their bloodQUOTE(Kahrie @ Jun 2 2006, 12:56 AM) [snapback]1214100[/snapback]
i'm pretty sure that cows aren't underfed and yes i have seen cows eat anything!
LOL well I wont dispute that I am sure they would LOL
Kinna like my dog..he would eat you out of house and home...anything he can sink his teeth into...even my make-up once grrrrrrrrr
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 1 2006, 05:00 PM) [snapback]1214104[/snapback]
My grandfather used to sell all his live stock to meat markets and butchers...it was part of his business...he told me many years ago..his cows had to be fed right and kept healthy..otherwise he would lose out...he also kept a number of cows for milk....he had a huge farm...and he was a hunter...he used to go out shooting and bringing home somehting different each time for dinner and it was a hobby of his...he ket a lot of gun dogs...pretty much like the one I own - Springer Spaniel
My dog has never went hunting though..but when I have taken him out for walks over hte feilds he has killed a few magpies and rabbits.and I am the one that has to job of washing the blood off him..so I think Springer Spanials have it in their bloodGeri, so true so true , a cow must be fed correctly to maintain its health..
Karhie .Corn doesn't do that...it definitely fattens them up but fat doesn't equate health.........
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 2 2006, 12:02 PM) [snapback]1214109[/snapback]
LOL well I wont dispute that I am sure they would LOL
Kinna like my dog..he would eat you out of house and home...anything he can sink his teeth into...even my make-up once grrrrrrrrr
lol so would my dog! you can't leave anything with him
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Jun 2 2006, 02:28 PM) [snapback]1214300[/snapback]
Geri, so true so true , a cow must be fed correctly to maintain its health..
Karhie .Corn doesn't do that...it definitely fattens them up but fat doesn't equate health.........
i'm sure it does Sherri, i'm not sure i havn't seen the full effects on corn feed cows just yet so i'm clueless on this side
QUOTE
Geri, so true so true , a cow must be fed correctly to maintain its health..
Karhie .Corn doesn't do that...it definitely fattens them up but fat doesn't equate health.........
Karhie .Corn doesn't do that...it definitely fattens them up but fat doesn't equate health.........
Tell me, why not corn, Sheri?
QUOTE(frogfish @ Jun 2 2006, 08:11 PM) [snapback]1215887[/snapback]
Tell me, why not corn, Sheri?
Frog I'm not following ????? i talk alot on the thread the feedlot about why not on corn.....
I'm not in favor of fish being bred to eat corn either, but they are.......as a fiish lover waht are your thoughts on this frog??????
QUOTE
I'm not in favor of fish being bred to eat corn either, but they are.......
Haha, read up Sheri...farm-raised fish aren't fed corn...BUT corn does make a great bait for Carp
QUOTE
Frog I'm not following ????? i talk alot on the thread the feedlot about why not on corn.....
Which none of says anything so far.
QUOTE(frogfish @ Jun 3 2006, 09:05 AM) [snapback]1216367[/snapback]
Haha, read up Sheri...farm-raised fish aren't fed corn...BUT corn does make a great bait for Carp
Which none of says anything so far.
frog on the feedlot thread and the corn fed cow fed thread it says plenty at which time you read it and then want to discuss it let me know otherwise find someone else to troll and flame........
QUOTE
troll and flame
This place right here is nice enough...
frog I'll report if it persists...
QUOTE
frog I'll report if it persists...
Report what? You not giving out correct information? You not presenting scientific facts, only claims?
Sheri, if someone disagrees with you, its not auomatically flaming...lose your ego, it will help
Frog Just give up. you can lead a horse to water but cant make it drink. you can lead sherri to fact but cant make her nbelive them. i have discoverd this from posting in any thread that she does.
Sherri its amazing ive lived this long being so stupid.
ur not the onyl one who knows a thing or two i mean u know i only studied zoology as my profession so why would i know anything about animals...... i mean what is ur education major? conspiricy? peta loving? p.s. peta does more harm to animals thne good.
Sherri its amazing ive lived this long being so stupid.
ur not the onyl one who knows a thing or two i mean u know i only studied zoology as my profession so why would i know anything about animals...... i mean what is ur education major? conspiricy? peta loving? p.s. peta does more harm to animals thne good.
Haha, read up Sheri...farm-raised fish aren't fed corn...BUT corn does make a great bait for Carp
Where is your scientific evidence fish aren't being bred to eat corn???????
I've yet to see you put up anything except flaming and trolling.....
Robbie what facts are you talking about????? that cookies can be dipped in milk and taste good, that your cannines are for taking down an animal and eating them.....How about corn isn't a grain no way , its a grass like all other grasses and does the same thing and there is no problemn witha cow being only fed only corn and I'm simply spreading vegan propaganda and am a conspirasict...these are generally your posts and the gist of your debates......:rolleyes
:" my point with the rumen was plants are hard to digest becuase of alpha bonds. that is why they evolved the reticulorumen orifice. as i stated earlier cows need to eat for the bulk to the day and needed to develope this complex digestive systmtem to get enough nutrients to survive." One of your quotes robbie , I don't want to split hairs but its in error.....
It is as obvious as a heart attack i know my subject, if it isn't to you, waht can I say thas on you.....and its your dilema, I'm not posting for you or frog....so if you have something to share great but if not i wouldn't be hurt in the slightest if you ingnored my posts......
Where is your scientific evidence fish aren't being bred to eat corn???????
I've yet to see you put up anything except flaming and trolling.....
Robbie what facts are you talking about????? that cookies can be dipped in milk and taste good, that your cannines are for taking down an animal and eating them.....How about corn isn't a grain no way , its a grass like all other grasses and does the same thing and there is no problemn witha cow being only fed only corn and I'm simply spreading vegan propaganda and am a conspirasict...these are generally your posts and the gist of your debates......:rolleyes
:" my point with the rumen was plants are hard to digest becuase of alpha bonds. that is why they evolved the reticulorumen orifice. as i stated earlier cows need to eat for the bulk to the day and needed to develope this complex digestive systmtem to get enough nutrients to survive." One of your quotes robbie , I don't want to split hairs but its in error.....
It is as obvious as a heart attack i know my subject, if it isn't to you, waht can I say thas on you.....and its your dilema, I'm not posting for you or frog....so if you have something to share great but if not i wouldn't be hurt in the slightest if you ingnored my posts......
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Jun 4 2006, 02:47 AM) [snapback]1217045[/snapback]
Haha, read up Sheri...farm-raised fish aren't fed corn...BUT corn does make a great bait for Carp
Where is your scientific evidence fish aren't being bred to eat corn???????
Robbie what facts are you talking about????? that cookies can be dipped in milk and taste good, that your cannines are for taking down an animal and eating them.....How about corn isn't a grain no way , its a grass like all other grasses and does the same thing and there is no problemn witha cow being only fed only corn and I'm simply spreading vegan propaganda and am a conspirasict...these are generally your posts and the gist of your debates......:rolleyes
:" my point with the rumen was plants are hard to digest becuase of alpha bonds. that is why they evolved the reticulorumen orifice. as i stated earlier cows need to eat for the bulk to the day and needed to develope this complex digestive systmtem to get enough nutrients to survive." One of your quotes robbie , I don't want to split hairs but its in error.....
Sherri idk if uve ever been around a fish but u cant breed thme to eat something. u can only give them a certain food but u cant breed them to eat it. idk what u ment by that.
next never said our teether were for biting an animals and killing it like a lion or sometihng never ever ever said that. i did however say that they are useful in the scavanging lifstyle we needed them for on the grasslands. milk and cookies do go good together ur nuts if u think other wise lol. corn is a grass i tihnk i made that clear. didnt say it was the same as kentuckey blue grass but i just wanted to point out it was a grass. and tell me what is in error weith my post my dear on the cows digestive system. u eat only grass and tell me if u dont die shortly after. and when u do ill go to ur grave and tell u why.
Robbie I Know how my digestive system works and how a ruminants works also.....
robbie cows have been taught to eat only corn which is not natural for them...fish are now being bred to do the same thing..... because you think it can't be done means nothing its being done.....
robbie in the 1600"s grains were always referred to as corn, corn is a grain that is not the natural food of a cow and leads to great sickness and a very hard life for the cow not to mention very bad health which in turn affects you and will give you a marked increase in poor health.........You don't have to care , you can gorge yourself on milk and cokies all you want ..I started a thread for those that are interested .....Its not you and thats okay....I have only asked you add something other than 'No it isn't" no it doesn't....Nah uh, flame troll and insult........
robbie cows have been taught to eat only corn which is not natural for them...fish are now being bred to do the same thing..... because you think it can't be done means nothing its being done.....
robbie in the 1600"s grains were always referred to as corn, corn is a grain that is not the natural food of a cow and leads to great sickness and a very hard life for the cow not to mention very bad health which in turn affects you and will give you a marked increase in poor health.........You don't have to care , you can gorge yourself on milk and cokies all you want ..I started a thread for those that are interested .....Its not you and thats okay....I have only asked you add something other than 'No it isn't" no it doesn't....Nah uh, flame troll and insult........
QUOTE
Where is your scientific evidence fish aren't being bred to eat corn???????
I've yet to see you put up anything except flaming and trolling.....
I've yet to see you put up anything except flaming and trolling.....
Where's your evidence? As Robbie said, you can't breed animals to eat corn. Farm-raised fish aren't fed corn...they are fed high-protien fish-food.
I still don't see any of this said flaming and trolling...Wait, there's one! Hurry, its running away! Its hiding in Sheri's post! Get it!
Well that settles it 
LOL anyhoo moving on......
LOL anyhoo moving on......
sherri i proived to u scientificly how corn is a grass who cares what they said in the 1600's corn is a grass and if u re read the link i gave u will see its scientific name classifies it as a grass. its a grass jsut as much as bamboo is a grass.
i dont tihnk u know aobut fish breeding enough to say that statment sherri. i however have breed angel fish koy beta fish discuc plattys sword tails and the like. used ot make some money doing it too. u cant breed new feeding into anaimal. u can breed them ore tolreant of the fish to the new food but its not that same.
again u didnt tell me how my statment on the cow was wrong thats twice u said its worong but never said why id apericate it if u did. because i know how the digestive system works too ive disected enough things to know my way aund an animals insides.
i dont tihnk u know aobut fish breeding enough to say that statment sherri. i however have breed angel fish koy beta fish discuc plattys sword tails and the like. used ot make some money doing it too. u cant breed new feeding into anaimal. u can breed them ore tolreant of the fish to the new food but its not that same.
again u didnt tell me how my statment on the cow was wrong thats twice u said its worong but never said why id apericate it if u did. because i know how the digestive system works too ive disected enough things to know my way aund an animals insides.
QUOTE(robbieb @ Jun 3 2006, 09:02 PM) [snapback]1217142[/snapback]
sherri i proived to u scientificly how corn is a grass who cares what they said in the 1600's corn is a grass and if u re read the link i gave u will see its scientific name classifies it as a grass. its a grass jsut as much as bamboo is a grass.
i dont tihnk u know aobut fish breeding enough to say that statment sherri. i however have breed angel fish koy beta fish discuc plattys sword tails and the like. used ot make some money doing it too. u cant breed new feeding into anaimal. u can breed them ore tolreant of the fish to the new food but its not that same.
again u didnt tell me how my statment on the cow was wrong thats twice u said its worong but never said why id apericate it if u did. because i know how the digestive system works too ive disected enough things to know my way aund an animals insides.
Robbie You are wrong simple as that......I said they ( fish) are being bred to tolerate corn,that can be done, cows have been made to eat corn ......
basically what i have been saying YOU CAn't feed a cow just corn and here in america we do, ( its rectified by mass amounts of antibiotics) for the most part there may be a rancher here and there but the majority is feedlot.......Grass is basically photovoltiac panels the moment a cow shears a clump of grass, it sets into motion a sequence of events that will confer a measurable benefit to this square foot of pasture..this shorn grass plant, restores the rough balance between the roots and leaves and will proceed to shed as much root mass as its just lost in leaf mass..When the discarded roots die , the soils population of bacteria, fungi, earth worms will get to work breaking them down into a rich brown humus. what had been the grass plants roots will run channels through which worms, air, and rainwater will move through the earth, stimualting the process by which new topsoil is formed.......now back on top the cows shearing of the grass will stimulate new growth, as the crown redirects reserves of carbhydrates energy from the roots to form new shoots.you see the cows are good for the enviorment they have a place a very important place...what they take they give back .......
Robbie, its misleading to speak of any grass plant in isolation since many different plant species form many different functions and occupy one square foot of pasture..this biodiversity has a great many benefits to all parties at the most basic level it allows the farms land to capture the maximum amount of solar energy, if the areas that are now being used to grow corn were used for pastures it would go along way in restoring the planet....the biggest problem is many don't get the whole picture , they only see bits and pieces nature is a interdeepndent relationship all parts are interrelated and connected for the good of the whole.....
cows eat white clover, bluish fescue, timothy clumps , orchard grass, red clover, millet, plaintain, bluegrass, sweet grass each of these provides the cow with nutrients and minerals it needs, if it is feeling alittle off it will inherently know which grass to eat to help....AGAIN CORN IS A GRAIN NOT THE NATURAL FOOD OF THE COW.......
A concentrated diet of corn can give an animal acidosis, a COWS RUMEN is neutral unlike ours which is acid , CORN IS ACIDIC and it creates a kind of heartburn that can kill the animal, but it ususally makes them sick ..Acidotic animals go off their feed, pant and salivate excessively, paw and scratch their bellies and eat dirt..This often leads to diarreah, ulcers, bloat, rumentitis,liver disease, and general weaking of the immune sytem that leaves the animal at peril for a myriad of feedlot disease such as pneumonia, coccidiosis, enterotoxemia, feedlot polio...Just like humans animals are susceptatble to all sorts of disease too.....more often than not this diet blows out there livers, over time the acid eats throught he rumen wall and the bacterias enter the animals blood stream, these microbes end up in the liver which impairs the livers funtions...So you see antiobiotics are needed for some semblence of kindness to these animals.....
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Jun 4 2006, 04:53 AM) [snapback]1217197[/snapback]
Robbie You are wrong simple as that......I said they ( fish) are being bred to tolerate corn,that can be done, cows have been made to eat corn ......
basically what i have been saying YOU CAn't feed a cow just corn and here in america we do, ( its rectified by mass amounts of antibiotics) for the most part there may be a rancher here and there but the majority is feedlot.......Grass is basically photovoltiac panels the moment a cow shears a clump of grass, it sets into motion a sequence of events that will confer a measurable benefit to this square foot of pasture..this shorn grass plant, restores the rough balance between the roots and leaves and will proceed to shed as much root mass as its just lost in leaf mass..When the discarded roots die , the soils population of bacteria, fungi, earth worms will get to work breaking them down into a rich brown humus. what had been the grass plants roots will run channels through which worms, air, and rainwater will move through the earth, stimualting the process by which new topsoil is formed.......now back on top the cows shearing of the grass will stimulate new growth, as the crown redirects reserves of carbhydrates energy from the roots to form new shoots.you see the cows are good for the enviorment they have a place a very important place...what they take they give back .......
Robbie, its misleading to speak of any grass plant in isolation since many different plant species form many different functions and occupy one square foot of pasture..this biodiversity has a great many benefits to all parties at the most basic level it allows the farms land to capture the maximum amount of solar energy, if the areas that are now being used to grow corn were used for pastures it would go along way in restoring the planet....the biggest problem is many don't get the whole picture , they only see bits and pieces nature is a interdeepndent relationship all parts are interrelated and connected for the good of the whole.....
cows eat white clover, bluish fescue, timothy clumps , orchard grass, red clover, millet, plaintain, bluegrass, sweet grass each of these provides the cow with nutrients and minerals it needs, if it is feeling alittle off it will inherently know which grass to eat to help....AGAIN CORN IS A GRAIN NOT THE NATURAL FOOD OF THE COW.......
A concentrated diet of corn can give an animal acidosis, a COWS RUMEN is neutral unlike ours which is acid , CORN IS ACIDIC and it creates a kind of heartburn that can kill the animal, but it ususally makes them sick ..Acidotic animals go off their feed, pant and salivate excessively, paw and scratch their bellies and eat dirt..This often leads to diarreah, ulcers, bloat, rumentitis,liver disease, and general weaking of the immune sytem that leaves the animal at peril for a myriad of feedlot disease such as pneumonia, coccidiosis, enterotoxemia, feedlot polio...Just like humans animals are susceptatble to all sorts of disease too.....more often than not this diet blows out there livers, over time the acid eats throught he rumen wall and the bacterias enter the animals blood stream, these microbes end up in the liver which impairs the livers funtions...So you see antiobiotics are needed for some semblence of kindness to these animals.....
what does an antibiotic have to do with hearburn? its not like its a tums.
i belive that if u go bakc i was the first one who stated that cows eat alot more thne just grass thnaks. dont tell me aobut the complexities of nature my dear. idc how much u knwo of it u dont knwo more then me so dont think u do i spent my entire highschool life taking every possible science class i could including anatomy bio 1 bio 2 bio 3 ecology 1 2 and 3 bio chemistry and the like. and my college haa well lets just say i took one or two in the field. my specialties are herps big cats primates and animal behavior. here the tricky part. a cow is a grazier naturaly a cow will eat ANY plant material it finds. grazing is the most efficet means of gathering food. problem is vunerability to readators because all focus is on food. hence hearding is foudnin animals that graze. next grass is acidic itself so idk what u were trying to say with that statment. grass wears the anamal off anamal off anuamls teeth. it takes specialised teeth to deal with that. now even with diversity in the diet alpha bonds are still not going to be broken down by an animals that does not have the proper equipment to deal with this. tada a cow developed an amazingly complex system to break down this other wise possibly dangerous food. think aobut this a termit cant evne digest wood. it realises on bacteria and protists to do it for him inside his gut. same thing cows use. they also chew there cud. another adaption to this food. u cant eat grass you would die. and even with this comple digestive system alot of the food is not broken down thats why there it grass that cna still be seen in there dung. if u lok at say a lions food u will possibly see some fur maby some bone fragments but other then othat u cant makeo ut and thing in them because like peopel we can break down beta bonds. grass is still held together with alpha bonds when u look at the dung. did u ever hear of corn poops? corn is held together with alpha bonds so it doenst get broek n down in your digestive system.
Robbie thanks for all that but you arent' telling me anything I don't already know.......I was giving info on why corn is a grain and why cows aren't meant to eat it as there only diet and why......
antibiotics are givin to sick animals, again the info I posted gives insight as to why antibiotics are used ..of course it adds extra water weigh to which gives the meat industry a huge extra chunk of a(secret) cash water adds weight the more the weigh the more the money per pound.....
antibiotics are givin to sick animals, again the info I posted gives insight as to why antibiotics are used ..of course it adds extra water weigh to which gives the meat industry a huge extra chunk of a(secret) cash water adds weight the more the weigh the more the money per pound.....
ok. itsj ust u tol me what i siad about the cows digestive system was wrong so i was wondering why u said that apparently i misunderstood thne?
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