"Canadian Muslims absolutely condemn an act of violence or threat of violence," Muhammad Alam, president of the Islamic Foundation of Toronto, told a crowded hall where many Muslims expressed concern about the arrests.

"This is not about religion or faith," but about political and social situations around the world, he said.

Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair agreed, saying the accused were motivated by an ideology based on politics and violence, not by faith. "This is not the action of the Muslim community."

The Muslim leaders thanked Blair for his assurances that the police would try to protect Muslims from angry responses to the arrests. Vandals who damaged a Toronto mosque overnight may have been motivated by hatred after the arrests earlier in the weekend, Blair said.

Sheik Hussein Patel, representing the Canadian Council of Muslim Theologians, a group of more than 100 scholars, thanked the police for making the arrests.

"Any threat to Canada poses a threat to Muslims in Canada as well," he said, adding that the group is concerned that the accused were resorting to "anti-Islamic behaviour."

On its website, the group posted a statement saying if the allegations are true, "then this is a wake-up call, especially for Muslim leaders and parents, that more must be done to ensure that our children do not get involved in activities that are contrary to the teachings of Islam."

In all, 12 men and five youths were arrested. Police allege they were inspired by al-Qaeda.

The accused are charged with knowingly participating in a terrorist group and either receiving or providing terrorist training in Ontario.

Muslims attending Sunday's media conference with Blair and community leaders said they feared the public and media are rushing to judgment.

One man pleaded for the families of the accused.

"Don't isolate the families. They are the first victims," he said.

Link

Islam is no different than christianity in that it can be used to justify violence. After looking at the quron it is definately more violent than the bible, but still the two religions are so fundementally messed up in my opinion that the end result is violence for violences' sake.

True.

Not all muslims are like this, just the extremists, insurgents or radicals as the media likes to call them.

The Koran can be took 2 ways, violent or peaceful. A muslim told me this once .

I just hope Canada isn't the next target we don't deserve it, but i guess they are really trying to get their point accross.

"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)

"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)

"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

Yes kratos, but still it doesn't say anything about physical violence, hence why it can be tooken 2 ways.

You can fight with words and wisdom.

"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or to have their hands and feet chopped off on opposite sides, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)

"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)

I sort of like my head where it is now, as do I like all my body parts in one whole piece.

Agreed.

I think the koran is more violent due to mohammid being a warrior. and the bible slightly less violent due to to jesus being 'peaceful', apart from the times he wanted disbelievers to be killed at his feet .

islam and christanity are actually just diffrent branches of the same tree.

Have I missed something in the Bible? I don't recall Jesus wanting unbelievers to be killed at his feet. In fact, his philosophy was exactly the opposite. See Matthew 5:44. (Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, etc.)

"Those enemies of mine who do not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me." - Jesus (Luke 19:27)

It's part of a story telling, not actual commanding. So, he was still a peace loving guy if you can believe that.

Yes, that's part of a parable, not an acutal commandment, if you will. Jesus himself never wanted anyone killed, before him, or far away. He told his followers to love their neighbors (everyone else) as themselves, and to behave to other people as they would have other people behave to them. That doesn't sound like killing to me. Unless you're suicidal.

as are all religions. they all sprouted and formed when we worshipped spirits, when we found how to create fire.

I hear you on that.



Maybe so.

Whatever,

Take a religion, any religion.
Now ask yourself if it promotes death and/or violence.

The answer 'Yes' is highly probable.

That's just the way things are.

Violence in the NT

This can apply to just about anything. Take a philosophy any philosophy. Take a political party, any political party. There is going to be conflict and war no matter what. It is in the nature of all humans. Only on an individual level can humans be totally peaceful. Groups will always have conflict and violence.

As an asside Jesus was always talking about slaying people. Slaying them in the Spirit. So that they could start a new life (reborn) as a Christian.

it makes me giggle when I see people going around quoting the "violent" parts in the Koran just to "prove" that it is a "violent" religion. Why? because people don't even bother to read the whole chapter. If you do read the whole chapter, you be reading a story. just like any Bible chapters. Some of those quoted "violent" quotes are just merely metaphors.

People only choose to read what they see fits and what they want to see cause it is easier to scan for the words "destroy" and "kill" than to read the whole thing.

Just like Christianity, the bible isn't the only book to read out there, but they are gospels along the side to be must read as well. It's the same with the Koran.

It's even funnier to see 1/2 of the world are blaming the whole religion and the people who embrace that religion just because some jacka$$ decided to do some crime against humanity because of some political feud (which is wrong in any other religion). It's funny and sad to see how people would rather succumb into being an ignorant than to actually do something to better themselves.

I mean hey, people with every known different religions live in my country and can actually live peacefully with each other and actually be friends with each other, why can't the rest of the world?

I'm sorry, it's just too funny and sad in the same time for me. It's like some people claiming themselves to not being a racist but they actually still do in some other areas.

That is just it Bluefenix...the verses (both Bible and Quran) that talk about violence....some people take seriously and literally. If both religions were true peaceful religions why are there "violent" passages in their Holy Books?

Religion is always violent when mixed with politics.

Religion does not have to be mixed with politics to be violent.

Yeah, politics will screw Anything up, religion isn't exempt.

Islam isn't a religion of peace. Yes christianity, over its life has done a lot of damage. But the current threat to the world is Islam. Muhammad commanded the non-believers to kill, anyone who reads both will admit that Quran is by far the more dangerous and violent book.
www.blessedcause.com/quran.htm is a good site that points this out. Even though I am an atheist, it is pretty obvious that Islam is a threat to the world, while christianity these days is promoting a more peaceful message.

true!
Kratos really thinks he's cleaver when he quotes the same text over and over again
just to advertise his anti Islamic way of thinking.

maybe you should learn to respect relegions
even though they are all pathetic myths

The fact still is those quotes are there.

Quite frankly, when a holy book calls for my death because I don't want to be a "believer", I kind of don't like that. I like living freely.

I agree.




Oh man. I hope you were joking.

In the words of Jesus.....

Lu 19:27 (NAS)
"But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence."

Relgions tend to always fight. When Christianity is #1, and Muslim is #2, on the world Religion chart... There will always be war. When will we wise up?

That's part of a story from Jesus though. It's not his word.

I don't like Christians much better either if not worse. Mainly because they directly effect me more then the Muslims do right now.

Religion has always, since the beginning of man, a creator of violence and war...bloodshed and death...pain and grief. What a glorious day it would be when religions ceased to war, to fight.

Per Christian belief.....he did speak those words.

SearchGodsWord.org

Isn't Buddhism the whole 'non-violence' deal?

If so, let's all just become Buddhist.

People always say "They wouldn't attack cause they are ___________<----insert religion here."

Well, in my opinion, your religion is irrelevant,you are still able to cause pain and destruction on someone/something. If anything religion ENCOURAGES this behaviour, some of the terrorists say they do this because "allah" told them to.

Bottom Line, dont mess with us mother canuckers. WE GOT B&A's and Cannonballs son!

well, B&A is just a fancy more intimidating name for bow and arrow V.V

No matter what anybody hides behind in the end instinct and our feelings will show and then people get hurt or killed. We have the uncanny abillity to hurt everything. The human race suck lol.

Luke 19:11

While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately.
----------------------------------
Please... Never again make me defend Christian believes.

Christianity is just as savage as Islam

Or have you forgotten all the various things in Christian history, Kratos?

wrong, the bible didn't tell the christian crusaders to do their crusading. Niether did the bible say "burn witches", the church did.

Kratos....that is what I was said.....Jesus's words.

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." (Exodus 22:18)

And the Church is the mouthpiece for their religion, same as a islamic clerics,etc. are the mouthpiece for their religion, and the bible is far from innocent, shall we talk about how it condones slavery, how in the old testament we have cases of genocide and so forth?



You'll have to become vegeterian

There all the same they just get twisted around to suite other people. I wonder what the world would be like without religion i know killing would still be the same but i wonder if there would be a change for the better or worse.

There has been a lot of death in this religions or that religions name.....so I would have to say this world might be a better place without.

Well I think a distinction needs to be made between organized religion and faith, nothing wrong with faith, however in organized groups people tend to start following blindly in a kind of mob mentality.

no not really, the church is just a home for the bible - hence the "house of god". the bible is the religions mouthpeice, the church just helps reinforce it. and then make up new rules...

please... stop making me defend the bible...

The church has been responsible throughout history for what version of the Bible is shown to the people, sorry but its more than just the house for god, and you didn't answer my question, does not the bible condone slavery, genocide, murder, rape, etc. all within its texts?

i have asked this question hudreds of times most of the time its either edited out from my post by the great mods on here, or no1 wants to answer it,,,

Prists that LIVE by the bible, BELIVE IN GOD, and live by the "CODE" are found every day MELESTING CHILDREN ???

if they are belivers, and they spent a half of their life spreading the GODS WORD, i am pretty sure they know what punishment is for such deed as this, so why would they EVER consider doing it ???

i mean if you know you shall burn in fire for this, and so far in your life you have done nothing bad why do it ?? unless you never really belived ???

mods please leave this post be, and people please answer it if you could, i am just open minded wonderer who would really like to know the truth

Umm maybe because they know that no matter what they do if they confess there sins or repent then they will get away scott free so one child molester priest could confess to another child molester priest then boom there sins are wiped clean. And i dont believe all priests are child molesters just a few sick individuals who use the church as a easy way to get near children or being a priest can be a lonely thing so i guess that twists them and they commit such horrible acts and its just wrong.

yeah it does, you wouldn't be asking me if you didn't know the answer. so your question in that sense was pointless .
it also condones betrayal - the cain and... uh... his brother.

yet for the slavery, slavery was accepted within the era when the bible was written, so it makes sense it would be included in the bible.

The church is just a house for 'god'. which, in the earlier history of the church, was used to make and enforce rules that they wanted. and then were able to punish those that broke their rules, such as forcing someone to put their hand into a bucket of boiling water to retreive a rock at the bottom, if their wounds looked like they were healing later on. then that meant god had forgiven them, if not it meant god had been un-forgiving.

so the church is/was more violent, than that of the bible. (think of the crusades ect)

Nope sorry

And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them."

And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

"So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. And Joshua smote them from Kadesh-barnea even unto Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon."

I see violence here, big time violence.



Does that make it Moral? Nope, sorry, when the Qur'an was written a lot of things were more accepted than now, does that make it moral, again no.



And they based none of this off the bible?

What about all the references to stoning people to death, bashing the heads of babies against rocks, etc. etc., you're telling me that that didn't influence the church?

if you have to bring god into it, the death toll compared to the church is far greater, but is there proof of god destroying cities ect? no. so due to evidence, the church is still far more violent, in a physical sense



who said it was moral? we weren't talking about whether it was moral or not. in the days of of when the bible was written it was an accepted sense of power and authority. I never said it was moral, read my post before making accusations



Stoning people was around before the bible was ever around, way before jesus. it was an accepted punishment in that period, just as sending someone to jail or putting them on the death sentence is now. (I'm not comparing them, I am stating how jail and the death sentence are accepted by our social structure. just as stoning was then.)
Bashing babies heads against rocks has been around since forever, since man were sheltering in caves. if food was short and not enough to supply the mother and her baby, the baby was took off the mother and killed, so that the group would'nt starve and obvisually put them at risk if they were attacked.
this happened every where, it happened in rome as well, if a woman was unable to provide for her new born, it was killed to prevent it from to much suffering. was it incredibly difficult for the mother to do this, obviusally yes.

did it influence the church? no it didnt. did the punishments of the time of the period influence the bible? yes, it did. The church grew in power, and then that contributed to their authority, which enabled them to introduce laws and punishments, as well as gaining wealth. This has been going on ever since religion led to religious building being built, for example the teegyptianmples; the preists grew in wealth and began to oppose the pharoah. just as the church bagan to oppose the king.

you cannot blame a book for making people violent. human violence has been around since we formed solid social groups, what you can blame religion on is the fact that it says violence is alright.
Religion is about peace, whether or not a god exists (I'm an atheist, yet defending the bible...ugh) though its a shame the preachers dont practice what they preach about peace.