Peace, Propaganda & The Promised Land



Very good education film, time to learn something useful, folks.

http://www.seconddraft.org/movies.php

Very Educational

Wow. Such an education.NOT.

^ what was wrong with it.

Yes I found this very educational, I had no idea the Palestinians were so 'backward'

They are backward because of occupation.
While they dont have normal amount of water to drink or wash themselfs, Isreali swim in their swiming pools on palestinain lands, the jewish settlements in west bank and Gaza are illegal.

What utter tosh..bish bosh. Palestinain land? I don't think so.. it all come down to whose got the bigger stick. In this case the Jews have the bigger stick. Thanks to the intervention of the USA. Why the USA supports isreal? I've NO goddamn idea!! It make little or no sense. I can smell the flowers I see the birds from where I stand but does that make me right?
I have no idea. Who knows, do you know?

They have no land. So I guess you hate Jews now.

You are ignorant, you know that?
Palestnians have lands and these lands are being populated by jew settlements what is illegal under geneva conventions. Israel is the occupant. They dont allow to estabilish Palestinian state and there was no generous offer from Israel in 2000 , it was a fround not an offer.
Israel should pull out from occupied teritories and leave palestinians be. Oh wait, just remembered, you are a american, your media shows that Israel is just defending from palestinian attacks, but how can they defend in occupied teritories? Its opression not defending, of course bombings in Jerusalem is a bad thing, but they need to find the real reson why is that happening and that is the opression of pales.

I remember you from another thread. I thought you were talking crap there and now you're talking crap here. I suggest you use science not faith! PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

im glad i saw this film it gives me hope,ive known about this stuff for years but never knew there were really educated people helping put the flipside of the twisted story.
some of you shouldnt be in here!! if you really do want to believe the stuff that gets spoon fed from that open sewer in the living room without question why are you here?
this kind of thing takes courage to put together, and no doubt some people have lost their jobs and livlihoods to put this information up.
you just cant spell it out for some people.

Your post makes no sense. Sanjuro is hatemonger, thats all there is to it.

RUBBISH SIR! Stop, think, listen and observe.
I dispair at such wanton low IQisim.
Bunkem sir bunkem ad hocum.

I realise this is a sensitive topic. Lets please keep it civil.

I wrote thin in another thread, but I feel it's fitting having it here as well;

As long as prudence is something unheard of in the Jewish-Muslim conflict, there will be morons, blood and agony on both sides.

Jews (with the US in their backs) are oppressing the Palestinians and referring to historical/religious aspects when they try to justify their imperialism and occupation of another people's land.
They are fond of exerting military operations on civilians and lying about them being "assaults on military targets". That's a really old war trick that everybody seems to swallow.
Of course, the ultimate Israeli goal isn't peace, but a Palestinian exile. Those who think otherwise are naive!

The Palestinians (and their muslim backups), on the other hand, are falling back to the aggressive parts of their religion and exerting furious terrorist attacks on all parts of the Israeli populace. Can you blame them?
And now they have this dictator government of Iran in their back, which doesn't make things better. But can they afford not having ANY allies at all...?

All in all, it's a dead end since each side will not back away from anything. It's like it has always been; two fighting sides yet nothing is black and white.

zzzzzzz.....i want reparations from the saxons who invaded england and the vikings who settled after raping and pillaging..oh and the normans while we are at it. The yanks are occupying english land stolen in 1776 or is it native anerican land? Its the way of the world pal, always was and always will be...remember the muslims occupied much of europe for centuries and still occupy places where they have no business being like bosnia, indonesia and chechnya which are all trouble zones (a coincidence?).The palestinians backed the wrong horse in 48 and 67, tough tits. They could have had over 93% back in 1998 and turned it down.

Thats for your ignorant post.

First of all we are talking about present times not about bloody vikings.

Second, they had offer from Israel in 2000 and it was 97%, but hey, it was a fraud, no palestinian leader would accept such thing, no borders, no control of natural resurces, no control of air space and israel check points and amry on every corner, its not a peace offer, but offer of "legal" occupation, but reptile media turned it all like palestinians refused such GENEROUES offer and how stupid they are.

[quote name='Sanjuro' date='Jun 10 2006, 10:43 AM' post='1226139']
Thats for your ignorat post.

That seems your favorite thing to say. Everyone is ignorant instead of you. Even if you misspell ignorant.

You want to see something educational?

Here:

Palestine was not even recognized as a nation until 1988. Until then it was just a region called Palestine by most. Israel was declared a nation in 1947 so there is no way that you could "steal" from a "nation" that wasn't even there at the time. And it's also not like the United States said: Here Jews of Europe, we'll take you all to Israel because it says to in the Bible. And Israelis didn't force out Palestinians either. Jewish people from Europe came to Israel because most either had family and friends there, or wanted to move to the place where they came from. (It's not just in the bible that Jews were from that area either in history just so you know). All jewish people can trace their roots back to the Israeli region because it's fact that is where they come from. You don't even have to be religious to know that.

So why have Arabs treated Israel so badly? What has made the conflict between Jews and Muslims sparked? It's really hard to say because most Arabs that hate Israel don't really have any agruement except for "They are jews, they are the enemy". Israel has done almost nothing wrong as it is others who keep the hostility because it declared itself a Jewish nation in an Islamic region. Israel time after time again has asked for peace, but most of it's neighbor countries are and have been illogical beyond all state of mind. They are filled with too many radicals and not enough thinkers of peace. I know that's one thing Sanjuro wants, peace.

In 1967 Israel invaded in a Sneak Attack. They occupied the West Bank, Gaza, and other territories.

There were people living there before, during, and after the Sneak Attack.

Two generations later Israel is still denying these people freedom, and today they number over four million.

Denying freedom four million people for two generations is not wrong?

Where has a greater number of people been denied freedom from a foreign power for so long?

It is the biggest wrong in the entire world!

Even this Jewish guy?

And your response about my 'ignorant' post about bosnia, indonesia, chechnya etc is?.....really!! you my son have not got a clue..where are you? whats your situation? sound like some know nothing undergraduate to me...get in touch i will give you my mail, phone number ands we can talk...really sonshine...dont beleive the hype!!!

Palestine was created by the British when they carved up the Ottoman Empire after WWI, and existed until 1948.

If not Palestine what was the land called from 1922 to 1948?

by the way you guys need to get your facts straight .....i aint jewish or anything but have researched the situation to a larger extent than most and used more widespread references so just cos the ayatollah says it is so dont make it true...call or mail mate...some of you really need to get a big dose of reality...and i dont have an agenda, just a knowledgeable bystander...the 97% thing included 4% that was to be a nature reserve btw...ignorance is bliss..lol

The nature reserve included an Israeli Toxic Waste Dump.

israeli 'toxic' waste dump where is that exactly can you give me a grid reference or a general area? 1922 (cmon!!)?, please expand on your knowledge of both historical and present problems as it sounds to me like you are believing the hype and have little or no actual grasp of the situation opast or present. Facts are facts and are easily proven, undergraduate waffle doesnt count i'm afraid. Yes, i agree the israelis are a bunch of ***** but spouting heresay and rumour will only harm the palestinian cause in the long run

I have read nearly a mile of pages on mid-east history from many different perspectives.

I doubt you know much more than the typical propaganda.

can i just say please watch the film this can be interpreted in many ways.
some people are too quick to forget the ramifications of ignoring this situation!!
this is akin to watching a pair of proffesional boxers beat up a retarded old man with his hands tied behind his back.
anyone who supported that treatment would be sick no?
just standing by watching the show until some of the old mans friends come along and give you a dig..AND youd deserve it!!!
you may not like the old man but ...theres a quote in the film jfk that says something like
"to remain silent when we should speak makes a coward of a man"
a fair break thats all thats ask for here...just watch the film please

o...i think i might my friend...try me....i had a look at that site you quoted, cmon purrrlease!!!

I believe I already know the holes in your understanding.

Here is the 'Cliff Notes' for much of it.

http://www.friesian.com/Islam.htm

ho humm...i can give you many muslims who know my experiences in this area, in fact most of my office are muslim guys who I consider friends. I have absolutley no axe to grind so take the ' is it cos me muslim?' chip off your shoulder and give facts/details not ridiculous websites links. What do you want from me a link to a christian nutter website?. Facts/details/proof please...still waiting for the location of the 'toxic' dump in the nature reserve...your grandads cousin was the blah, blah, blah is not proof...post evidence here please

What bloody evidences, monkey? You already sent me 2 PM about evidence, but didnt ask exacly what evidences..."I need evidence" about what I ask "you dont know nothing lololo!11" .. *sigh*
Maybe a quick tour to palestine ? To exact locations? lol
Be more specific..

Are we still talking about the 1998 OOPS!.... 2000 Israeli Generous offer?

http://www.arabmediawatch.com/amw/CountryB...54/Default.aspx


The stolen land to be exchanged for a Toxic Waste Dump.



Is this the Nature preserve you are refering to, or is it something else?

the independent and arab mediawatch?..thats your proof? enough now, you are both jokers, map references, anything? no? ok then i give up,let the thread die! I am able to travel to both palestine and israel at any time I want to Sanjuro and have done many times so locations are not a problem unless you dont give them to me as I am not willing to go through the weeks of research through the websites you have been brainwashed by. I will let this thread lie now until you provide anything other than rhetoric. The location of the toxic dump would be a start (next to gaza? lol why not slap it in the middle of gaza city?)and maybe some comment on the bosnia, indonesia and chechnya thing (is it cos we muslims?)...o btw the camp david top level meeting was 2000 but if you knew ANYTHING you would know it was supposed to dot i's and cross t's from a 1998 deal..but you dont

im wondering what youll consider as a reliable source other then a map ref ?
i realise you dont like to look at links but would you look at this link and give me JUST an opinion..would that be cool?
www.aqsa.org.uk click on leaflets go to the bottom row and its the second one along.
remember just cast a look and give me your opinion.

Well I dont know the location of toxic dump what was offered, but I know about Toxic waste in Golan, acctualy there are many places where Israel dumps its waste in muslim lands illegaly.

I had promised myself to leave this but 'there are many places..blah blah blah'...just one example will do, i am aware of many illegal dumps within Israel but you are talking specifically about the occupied territories, any general area slightly less vague than 'next to gaza' will do

And they are quoting David Clark.

therefore the locations should be well documented...just one to start with ok?

whats your opinion on this leaflet its quiet specific??

Look at the map of the Camp David proposal, and compare with the current one.

Undergraduates like yourself should figure out such simple answers for yourself.

al-asqa.org.uk? its hardly independent i'm afraid. Its like NASA saying 'we did go to the moon'. It may well be true but do you have more independent analysis? something this serious will have been widely received academically particularily with the current academic isolation of israel. Btw Tulkarm is within metres of jewish 'settlements' and therefore they would be also poisoning their own water supply, seems unlikely

cheeky twat... i might be your lecturer! however we will never know until you get in touch, PM, mail,phone etc?

well why not look at green peaces site or does this have to be an isreali thing is that the only source youll trust??

i dont remember ever mentioning any israeli source about anything at all but an al-asqa source is as polarised as quoting some nutty jewish 'gaza is ours and the arabs just want to kill us all' site.

i didnt say u said anything about isreali sites ..you did however say that u were very familiar with those areas in the leaflet. can you just clearly say that you know for sure this dump site does not exist?

also i just wondered if you could provide the exact location of the said nature reserve?
this would help us all to locate this non existant toxic dump!

I already asked, and he ignored it.

Don't expect much more than evasion on his part.

You actually believe Israel was the one that started the whole 6 day war? Border incidents and blockades on Israel made it attack other nations to ensure its people's exsistance. The hostility was made by others, Israel just launched a pre-emptive strike.



Please, tell me how these people's freedoms have been limited anymore than in other surrounding nation around Israel.



That scared me....



It wasn't a nation though, just a region like I said. Anyways, it was called Palestine-Transjordan FYI.

+If the countries in Israel stopping nagging about a false dispute, they might actually get something done and come to an agreement. Maybe the bloodshed could actually end.+