Full Version: The Kol Nidre..
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Has anyone ever read or heard of this? I came across it a while back and it seems like not too nice a thing.
QUOTE(What? @ Jun 15 2006, 10:43 AM) [snapback]1232533[/snapback]
(sic).... and it seems like not too nice a thing.
LINK Look under Kol Nidre. It's a Jewish prayer.
It is a prayer, whats "not nice" about it?
More here.
QUOTE
Refers Only to Individual Vows.
The teachers of the synagogues, however, have never failed to point out to their cobelievers that the dispensation from vows in the "Kol Nidre" refers only to those which an individual voluntarily assumes for himself alone (see RoSH to Ned. 23b) and in which no other persons or their interests are involved. In other words, the formula is restricted to those vows which concern only the relation of man to his conscience or to his Heavenly Judge (see especially Tos. to Ned. 23b). In the opinion of Jewish teachers, therefore, the object of the "Kol Nidre" in declaring oaths null and void is to give protection from divine punishment in case of violation of the vow. No vow, promise, or oath, however, which concerns another person, a court of justice, or a community is implied in the "Kol Nidre." It must be remembered, moreover, that five geonim were against while only one was in favor of reciting the prayer (Zunz, "G. V." p. 390, note a), and furthermore that even so early an authority as Saadia wished to restrict it to those vows which were extorted from the congregation in the synagogue in times of persecution ("Kol Bo," l.c.); and he declared explicitly that the "Kol Nidre" gave no absolution from oaths which an individual had taken during the year. Judah ben Barzillai, a Spanish author of the twelfth century, in his halakic work "Sefer ha-'Ittim," declares that the custom of reciting the "Kol Nidre" was unjustifiable and misleading, since many ignorant persons believe that all their vows and oaths are annulled through this formula, and consequently they take such obligations on themselves carelessly ("Orḥot Ḥayyim," p. 106a).
The teachers of the synagogues, however, have never failed to point out to their cobelievers that the dispensation from vows in the "Kol Nidre" refers only to those which an individual voluntarily assumes for himself alone (see RoSH to Ned. 23b) and in which no other persons or their interests are involved. In other words, the formula is restricted to those vows which concern only the relation of man to his conscience or to his Heavenly Judge (see especially Tos. to Ned. 23b). In the opinion of Jewish teachers, therefore, the object of the "Kol Nidre" in declaring oaths null and void is to give protection from divine punishment in case of violation of the vow. No vow, promise, or oath, however, which concerns another person, a court of justice, or a community is implied in the "Kol Nidre." It must be remembered, moreover, that five geonim were against while only one was in favor of reciting the prayer (Zunz, "G. V." p. 390, note a), and furthermore that even so early an authority as Saadia wished to restrict it to those vows which were extorted from the congregation in the synagogue in times of persecution ("Kol Bo," l.c.); and he declared explicitly that the "Kol Nidre" gave no absolution from oaths which an individual had taken during the year. Judah ben Barzillai, a Spanish author of the twelfth century, in his halakic work "Sefer ha-'Ittim," declares that the custom of reciting the "Kol Nidre" was unjustifiable and misleading, since many ignorant persons believe that all their vows and oaths are annulled through this formula, and consequently they take such obligations on themselves carelessly ("Orḥot Ḥayyim," p. 106a).
More here.
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Jun 15 2006, 12:06 PM) [snapback]1232558[/snapback]
Bad Link JM
Kol Nidre (Ashkenazi) or Kal nidré (Sephardi)
Kol Nidre... (ALL vows) A flat statement..
" All vows, obligations, oaths or anathemas, pledges of all names, which we have vowed, sworn, devoted, or bound ourselves to, from this day of atonement, until the day of atonement ( whose arriveal we hope for in happiness) we repent, aforehand, of them all, they all shall be adeemed absdolved, forgiven, annulled, void and made of no effect: they shall not be binding, nor have any power; the vows shall not be recokoned as vows, the obligations shall not be obligatory, nor the oaths considered oaths."
Some prayer!!! I do not think I would trust such.
" All vows, obligations, oaths or anathemas, pledges of all names, which we have vowed, sworn, devoted, or bound ourselves to, from this day of atonement, until the day of atonement ( whose arriveal we hope for in happiness) we repent, aforehand, of them all, they all shall be adeemed absdolved, forgiven, annulled, void and made of no effect: they shall not be binding, nor have any power; the vows shall not be recokoned as vows, the obligations shall not be obligatory, nor the oaths considered oaths."
Some prayer!!! I do not think I would trust such.
What? What is your point? It is not much different form Catholics going to confession and being absolved of all their sins. I don’t think a Jew is going to stop payment on his car because he said this prayer any more than a Catholic is going to commit murder because he can confess be absolved of it in the eyes to the church.
QUOTE(Darkwind @ Jun 16 2006, 03:05 AM) [snapback]1233414[/snapback]
What? What is your point? It is not much different form Catholics going to confession and being absolved of all their sins. I don?t think a Jew is going to stop payment on his car because he said this prayer any more than a Catholic is going to commit murder because he can confess be absolved of it in the eyes to the church.
Confession is after the fact. The jewish Kol Nidre starts at the begining.(yom kipper) They are saying they are not bound to anything,promises oaths etc. for the rest of year. It is a license to lie. Is that what you want of an elected official,judge etc.? The power they hold and the results of their actions are a far cry from buying a car! Read it again.
QUOTE(What? @ Jun 16 2006, 03:02 PM) [snapback]1234209[/snapback]
Confession is after the fact. The jewish Kol Nidre starts at the begining.(yom kipper) They are saying they are not bound to anything,promises oaths etc. for the rest of year. It is a license to lie. Is that what you want of an elected official,judge etc.? The power they hold and the results of their actions are a far cry from buying a car! Read it again.
Read the definition of it.
Kol Nidre (Ashkenazi) or Kal nidré (Sephardi) is a Jewish prayer recited in the synagogue at the beginning of the evening service on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. It is written in Aramaic, not Hebrew. Its name is taken from the opening words, meaning "All vows".
"Kol Nidre" has had an eventful history, both in itself and in its influence on the legal status of the Jews. Introduced into the liturgy despite the opposition of some rabbinic authorities, attacked in the course of time by some rabbis, and in the nineteenth century expunged from the prayer-book by many communities of western Europe, this prayer has often been employed out of context by anti-Semites to support their claims that Jews cannot be trusted.
Kol Nidre sometimes does not only refer to the actual prayer, but sometimes to the entire Yom Kippur evening service.
Philip Birnbaum, in his classic edition of the Mahzor (High holy day prayer book) comments on this passage: "It refers to vows assumed by an individual for himself alone, where no other persons or interests are involved. Though the context makes it perfectly obvious that no vows or obligations towards others are implied, there have been many who were misled into believeing that by means of this formula all their vows and oaths are annulled. In the eleventh century Rabbi Meir ben Samuel (Rashi's son-in-law) changed the original wording of Kol Nidre so as to make the Ashkenazi version apply to the future instead of the past; that is, to vows that one might not be able to fufill during the next year." The Sephardi version still refers to the past year.
SOURCE
SUCH IGNORANCE. PATHETIC.....Not sorry,but YOU,are woefully wrong..I hope there are others who are not as brain washed as you. And if you are not brain washed, you lack one.I hope some (real) Christians wake up before it is tooooo late. It is though. But, to leave ya's with a good thought......(Kol Nidre)
"By way of deception thou shall make war"...motto of israels Mossad.
Fools or liars you be.
"By way of deception thou shall make war"...motto of israels Mossad.
Fools or liars you be.
For my mind, it just brings into stark focus Jesus' teaching in Matthew 5, when he says do not swear oaths by anything, just let your yes be 'yes', and your no be 'no'. Whatever you promise to do, do it. Then these misunderstandings would be forgotten.
On a slight tangent, it's always amused me that people will get up in court and swear on the Bible, something the BIble tells you not to do
SOURCEIsn't it great how context can change the application and meaning of passages and/or laws, eh zandore.
Regards, PA
On a slight tangent, it's always amused me that people will get up in court and swear on the Bible, something the BIble tells you not to do
QUOTE(zandore)
SOURCE
Regards, PA
QUOTE(What?)
SUCH IGNORANCE. PATHETIC.....Not sorry,but YOU,are woefully wrong..I hope there are others who are not as brain washed as you. And if you are not brain washed, you lack one.I hope some (real) Christians wake up before it is tooooo late. It is though. But, to leave ya's with a good thought......(Kol Nidre)
"By way of deception thou shall make war"...motto of israels Mossad.
Fools or liars you be.
Your username is apt, what? It's what I thought when i read this post. Please leave inflammatory comments off the board, cheers."By way of deception thou shall make war"...motto of israels Mossad.
Fools or liars you be.
Regards, PA
Now if "what" had read the post I put up, or visited the site itself, he might have a chance of understanding the meaning of the Kol Nidre.
Although he is correct about the motto of the Mossad. And, seeing as the Mossad is a covert operations intelligence gathering force, it is apt.
However, "whats" hatred and bigotry towards the Jewish people and the Israeli state is quite evident and distasteful.
Christian jihad, anyone?
Although he is correct about the motto of the Mossad. And, seeing as the Mossad is a covert operations intelligence gathering force, it is apt.
However, "whats" hatred and bigotry towards the Jewish people and the Israeli state is quite evident and distasteful.
Christian jihad, anyone?
QUOTE(What? @ Jun 16 2006, 10:12 PM) [snapback]1234642[/snapback]
I hope some (real) Christians wake up before it is tooooo late.
I was a real "Christian" once and I did wake up and dropped Christianity like a hot potato.QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Jun 17 2006, 12:41 AM) [snapback]1234744[/snapback]
Christian jihad, anyone?
They been on one (Christian jihad) for thousand of years now.QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Jun 16 2006, 10:18 PM) [snapback]1234647[/snapback]
Isn't it great how context can change the application and meaning of passages and/or laws, eh zandore.
But I did more to defend a valid belief (Judaism) then you did in this section ("Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs").
see post #11 for details.For whatever reason, I was defending YOUR right to your valid beliefs
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Jun 17 2006, 09:15 AM) [snapback]1235007[/snapback]
see post #11 for details.For whatever reason, I was defending YOUR right to your valid beliefs
When did I get a belief?As I said I was defending A religious belief.....I did not say it was mine.
QUOTE(zandore @ Jun 17 2006, 03:32 PM) [snapback]1235053[/snapback]
When did I get a belief?As I said I was defending A religious belief.....I did not say it was mine.
Do you.............believe in yourself?
Hi BM 
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 17 2006, 11:34 AM) [snapback]1235100[/snapback]
Do you.............believe in yourself?
The answer to your question though is yes.
Kol Nidrei: Jewish Prayer ....Or Akkadian Contract?
All Intercalations: (All terms herein)
By Confinements, and Debts, By Restraints, By Affections, By Submission to names, By Establishments.
In "forever ago," A treaty made (the land) bright,
The treaty delayed; hindered; restrained (the land),
The treaty confined the promised land, the place that was widely-owned.
That "day of cleaning waste,"
Up to the next "day of cleaning (seeking atonement from) the ancestors living in a foreign place that has one authoritative power across it."
By All "peasant prayers:" Mercy; forgiveness; pity, having gone along with them, All (these prayers) were empowered in the past accession year
Your debt was to be owed by the place of royal time, Not the accession year which is inferior and crosses not by Saturn.
The Intercalated herein, not being Intercalations
By The past Confined, not being confined
and Debts owed, not being Indebted
All Intercalations: (All terms herein)
By Confinements, and Debts, By Restraints, By Affections, By Submission to names, By Establishments.
In "forever ago," A treaty made (the land) bright,
The treaty delayed; hindered; restrained (the land),
The treaty confined the promised land, the place that was widely-owned.
That "day of cleaning waste,"
Up to the next "day of cleaning (seeking atonement from) the ancestors living in a foreign place that has one authoritative power across it."
By All "peasant prayers:" Mercy; forgiveness; pity, having gone along with them, All (these prayers) were empowered in the past accession year
Your debt was to be owed by the place of royal time, Not the accession year which is inferior and crosses not by Saturn.
The Intercalated herein, not being Intercalations
By The past Confined, not being confined
and Debts owed, not being Indebted
Kol Nidrei:
Ve'esarei, Ush'vuei, Vacharamei, Vekonamei, Vekinusei, Vechinuyei.
D'indarna, Ud'ishtabana, Ud'acharimna , Ud'assarna Al nafshatana
Miyom Kippurim zeh, ad Yom Kippurim haba aleinu letovah
Bechulhon Icharatna vehon, Kulhon yehon sharan
Sh'vikin sh'vitin, betelin umevutalin, lo sheririn v'lo kayamin
Nidrana lo nidrei, V'essarana lo essarei
Ush'vuatana lo shevuot.
Kalû Nidiru:
Bâ'u esaru ea, Ishû ea, Bâ'u karamu ea, Bâ'u kannû ema ea, Bâ'u kanasu ea, Bâ'u kianu ea,
Adianu darû an, Adû ishtu banu an, Adû karamu an, Adû esaru/Assura an Ali Napshu attu an,
Mi um Kaparu zû, adi Um Kaparu abu alanû letu bâ'u,
Bâ'u kalû an Ikkaru atnu bâ'u an, Kalû an ie'û an sharru an,
Ishû kin ishû attu an, bet el an um bet el an, la sharru an bâ'u la kayyamanu,
Nidiru an la nidiru ea, Bâ'u esaru an la esaru ea,
Ishû attu an la ishû attu.
Ve'esarei, Ush'vuei, Vacharamei, Vekonamei, Vekinusei, Vechinuyei.
D'indarna, Ud'ishtabana, Ud'acharimna , Ud'assarna Al nafshatana
Miyom Kippurim zeh, ad Yom Kippurim haba aleinu letovah
Bechulhon Icharatna vehon, Kulhon yehon sharan
Sh'vikin sh'vitin, betelin umevutalin, lo sheririn v'lo kayamin
Nidrana lo nidrei, V'essarana lo essarei
Ush'vuatana lo shevuot.
Kalû Nidiru:
Bâ'u esaru ea, Ishû ea, Bâ'u karamu ea, Bâ'u kannû ema ea, Bâ'u kanasu ea, Bâ'u kianu ea,
Adianu darû an, Adû ishtu banu an, Adû karamu an, Adû esaru/Assura an Ali Napshu attu an,
Mi um Kaparu zû, adi Um Kaparu abu alanû letu bâ'u,
Bâ'u kalû an Ikkaru atnu bâ'u an, Kalû an ie'û an sharru an,
Ishû kin ishû attu an, bet el an um bet el an, la sharru an bâ'u la kayyamanu,
Nidiru an la nidiru ea, Bâ'u esaru an la esaru ea,
Ishû attu an la ishû attu.
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