Some people believe God created all forms of life in Earth, others believe in the evolution.
But I think what really happened is a mix of both theories, for me, God created life in Earth, and he controls the evolution of all the creatures with his own powers, so evolution doesn't happen naturally, it happens cause God wants it to happen.
I have no proof, but I think nature, God and evolution are directly linked to each other, but God is the one who controls everything.

This should really be in the Spirituality vs Skepticism forum, but hopefully a mod will move it soon.

Personally I believe in the scientific explanation but I'm open minded, if someone showed me hard evidence that God was real and created then I wouldn't refuse to believe, but until then it's just science for me. It just seems to easy to say that some omnipotent entity did everything, without any real explanation.

You might be interested to read this thread.

Maybe we'll never know what really happened.

I don't imagine that we ever will, especially not in the near future.

i think both parties should keep a open mind.


you have some who refuse to believe that god created us. Then you have the others who refuse to believe that god might not exsist.

i know that skeptics will refuse to believe untill they have been shown proof but even sometimes when they have been shown proof they class that proof as fake and still cling to their stubboness, The same goes for some of those who believe in god they will cling to the story that god created man and the universe but if someone tries to tell them about how we evolved and show them how we evolved even if the evidence is right infont of them they will still believe that they were created by a higher being.


if both of them kept a open mind and did not try to belittle each other and make the other seem arrogant or stupid then i think they would get on great and get alot accomplished. You see science and religion seem to work against each other instead of working with each other. If science and religion worked together i think they would find the answers to things much quicker.

Three reasons (top ones) why evolution doesn't exists and proof that God created all forms of life and they only produce after their kind (unless rapped by fallen angels which we all know cause monsters to be born).

That said here are the top three reasons that show evolution is false: 1. Unchanged species 2. Pterasuars 3. X-Men


1. Unchanged species...... Along with the fact that there aren't any transitionary fossils to be found,........no scientist can argue the fact that their fossil records show that speicies of animals remain the same, unchanged, for millions upon millions of years. If evolution was real and every species was constantly changing and adapting, there wouldn't be species remaining the same for so long. If the evolutionist theory was correct any slight change in enviornment would triggor change, such as longer teeth, broader tails, new appendages, better sight, changing from cold to warm blooded.........but none of these changes can be found anywhere, not in the past or present. With all the animals that mankind has, without question from the scientific stand point, lived along side not a single one of them has changed, not even now with all of this global warming, if evolution existed we would see some changes near the polar regions and other areas changing climately right now. And with all our years on earth we would have seen at least one animal change or adapt molecularly, but we haven't. Animals simply produce after their kind, they don't change as all evidence shows from past and present.

2. Pterasaurs........The biggest fear of all evolutionists, is explaining pterasaurs. If we were to accept scientists' false time scale and evolutionary theory, then there would have to be concrete evidence of the evolution of the first flying animal (non insect) on earth. There isn't any. Why, because the existence of Pterasaurs makes evolution IMPOSSIBLE! No lie, just think about it. For one, there is not transitionary fossils which there would have to be for such a change in appearance. Two, during the evolution of this flying reptile, it would be the most vulnerable and easy prey of any creature to have ever lived. We can tell by Pterasaur mechanics that when they weren't in the air they weren't agile or very mobile, so during their transition if they were to evolve, from the time they began changing up until the point they finally could fly.....there would be a huge space of time when they'd be practically un mobile not being able to do anything, they would have gone extinct before they perched atop their first branch........and if someone were to argue that before they got wings that stayed in the water, like ducks or something it brings up the fact that a water animal would have no reason to develope wings. Simply put Pterasaurs blow evolution away completely. (Thank you God for your wonderful creations that always show your truth).

3. X-Men.... Now, who hasn't seen the movies or watched the cartoons growing up? X-Men is all about mutation and evolutioin, and in all honesty, if evolution was real, the world of X-Men is how the world would be. But it wouldn't just be human beings devoloping new appearances and abilities it would be every animal on earth. Basicly if evolution was real the world would be like X-Men with thousands of different mutations happening to every species on earth to test whether or not this new mutation would beat natural selection and become the norm. But........once again there is no such mutation in human beings or any other animal. And seeing as how human beings populate pretty much every envoirnment on earth, logically they should be the species mutating and changing 24/7 like in X-Men, but they're not. Once again God shows us that evolution is false and things were created by him to produced more of their own kind.

With that said, with all of my statements being completely true, and any evolutionist that says otherwise would be liying, you can see that evolution is false and everything was created by the God of Israel to produce after it's own kind like every real Christian and Jewish person has been saying for years and years.

Waterfowl fossils fill in a big missing link - 110 million-year-old birds bridge gap between age of dinosaurs and today

Evolution of the horse
Horse evolution at Wikipedia

Evolution of the cat

Molecular evolution of the dog family

Genetic and evolutionary studies in wheat
Evolution of wheat



Oh that's nice. Your statements are actually false and easily proven to be false by anyone with a brain, so just to cover all your bases, you put in a cheesebag statement like that so we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you must be saying the truch because you said so. Nice argument you got there.

You can't say that transitional fossils don't exist and then say we're lying when shown they do exist. We've known about transitional fossils for ages. There is significant change within species through the millions of years life has been on the planet. What you said about it not existing is completely and absolutely false.

But your statements are the absolute truth, right? You have a direct connection to God, who told you this, right? Or are you like Daulby and just know more than anyone else in the history of humanity, right? And I'm merely lying, right? All those transitional fossils in the museum I worked in just don't exist, right?

Sometimes I think people don't deserve the world god created. Not using the brain he blessed you with is the biggest insult to God anyone can make.

I am going to assume you are talking about the Abrahamic God. Since there are Gods and Goddesses that are far older than the Abrahamic God so their creation claims are more valid.

By the way, there is not a single working molecular biologist who doesn't use the the theory evolution by natural selection in their work daily. It is a practical application for them. Without it, their work would be useless and non-productive. It's like an aero engineer trying to design a plane without using the theory of gravitation or an electrician trying to work without Fourier Transform.

The theory of evolution by natural selection is just a theory all right. Just like the theory of gravitation is a theory.

*bangs head*

Why do I keep doing this?

no there aren't. Other gods= idols, rocks, things of stone or wood built by human hands. AFTER, God had created the humans.

the works of idols= 0

GOD= The one and only, the God of Abraham, YHVH, The one that always was, The one that contracted then expanded in the infinite nothingness to set aside a place for the finite world, who then brought forth the colors of the universe out of a colorless ring of cloudy mist, then manifested himself at the first point of light seen in his universe, the light that already existed outside in the infinite, who then expanded and filled his temple, Elohim, then while encompassing all of the infinite and the new finite of the universe created the heavens and the earth. The ageless, Ancient of Days, The Holy Father, The Creator.

The works of GOD= Being, Creating the universe, creating the angels, fashioning the earth, creating the animals, creating man, Flooding the whole earth, saving Noah and his family and the animals, destroying the tower of babel, seperating man into races and tongues, making a pact with his servant Abraham, brining Abraham's seed to egypt, freeing Abraham's seed from egypt (10 plagues, parting the red sea), giving Israel (through Moses) the torah, giving the Israelites manna from heaven, giving them meat, giving them water from a rock, countinuously forgiving them for their transgressions, giving them the land of Israel (fighting for them, stoping the rotation and movement of the sun, earth, and moon), giving Israel victories in battle, and giving victories to their enemies when they vexed him, establishing a king in Israel (even though they already had a King), having Elijah brought up to heaven in a flaming chariot, raising the dead, allowing barren women to have children, allowing Samson to slay 1000 men with only the jaw bone of a donkey, making water fresh, fortelling events to come that came, destroyed sodom, gomorah, and the walls of jericho, stopped the flowing of the Jordan river, dwelt in the tabernacle and in the temple, gave wisdom and understanding, saved the world with his only begotten son, brought and is still bringing the Jews back to Israel, sprung innocent men from jail, had one of his angels slay 185 thousand men (enemies of Judah who blasphemed the living God), gave Solomon great riches, opened the eyes of Saul/Paul, made a donkey speak, made someone hired to curse to bless, walked on water, calmed the seas, makes the heavenly bodies continue their movement, controls the weather, healed the sick, made cripples walk, made blind see, made dumb speak, expelled evil spirits, allowed Elijah to run faster than horses, took Enoch up with him, foretold his salvation of the world, chained the fallen angels, and is currently bringing about the end of days and is near his return, his wrath is close at hand, ect. ect. If I continued I'd probably never stop but for the reason that God's works are so many no one knows them all save Him.




And no, transitional fossils do not exists, fossils of different animals exists, not transitionary fossils. in order to prove transition you would need a fossil from say a 100 m y a of an animal, then an fossil (of the same animal) a few million years later with a very slight difference, but a difference a majority of that species had (like an extra toe or something, actually first it would only be a small percentage of the species that had this difference, and then over time it would become a majority feature) then you would need a fossil (once again, of the Same animal) now with all the species or majority with that same difference as before, but not maybe another limbs seems to be larger on average then before, then a few million years later again you would need the same thing, a fossil of the SAME animal with the same changes still there and now another SMALL, barely noticable change.........so, that after you counted a species down from 100 million years ago to today you'd have a different animal, but definate proof that it was once a different animal that slowly changed.

No one has that, you have fossils of an animal that weighed 10 tons and stood 15 feet high........then you have a fossil that is dated newer (a totaly different animal) that is now 13 tons and 25 feet high, with a different bone structure and diffirent physical features. The only link between the two seperate species is that they look generally the same and live in the same area, such as a coyote and a fox for example, the two animals aren't the same nor did they come from the other, they're just similar in some ways they didn't evolve from the other they just were.

the fossil record shows big leaps....huge, changes as far as scientists can tell.
But accroding to the evolutionary theory though, there should be tons of tiny changes that happen every few hundred generations or so, there aren't any.

The scientists' dating and theories are all wrong, everything was created and produce after it's own kind, that's it.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_HorseTHE EVOLUTION OF THE F%^*^&! HORSE!!![/url]



You don't bother to read or learn. In fact, you already stated that what you spoke of is the truth and any evidence presented otherwise is a lie. There is evidence that refutes what you said about transitional fossils and molecular evolution. But you automatically dismiss it because you have already made up your mind that your "truth" is the only one and anything else is false.

You are wrong. Completely wrong. The evidence that you are wrong is overwhelming, but you already covered all your bases by immediately denying the validity of any evidence. You have your faith, that's fine. We aren't telling you to deny your faith. We're here for a discussion, but you are here to proselytize. You have no interest in discussion beyond telling us what to think.

You therefore, are not qualified to take part in a discussion on evolution because you refuse to even open yourself to the possibility of discussion. Which means there is no discussion with you. And if you refuse to participate in an actual discussion about this topic, then that means:

You have no right to be in this discussion.

If you have something to contribute, then fine. But you don't have anything for a contribution other than telling everyone that anything except your interpretation is a lie.

And I stand by what I said earlier. Not using the brain God gifted you with is the biggest insult you can do to Him. Congratulations. I bet Satan is laughing it up right now.

13. Evolutionists cannot point to any transitional fossils--creatures that are half reptile and half bird, for instance.

Actually, paleontologists know of many detailed examples of fossils intermediate in form between various taxonomic groups. One of the most famous fossils of all time is Archaeopteryx, which combines feathers and skeletal structures peculiar to birds with features of dinosaurs. A flock's worth of other feathered fossil species, some more avian and some less, has also been found. A sequence of fossils spans the evolution of modern horses from the tiny Eohippus. Whales had four-legged ancestors that walked on land, and creatures known as Ambulocetus and Rodhocetus helped to make that transition [see "The Mammals That Conquered the Seas," by Kate Wong; Scientific American, May]. Fossil seashells trace the evolution of various mollusks through millions of years. Perhaps 20 or more hominids (not all of them our ancestors) fill the gap between Lucy the australopithecine and modern humans.

Creationists, though, dismiss these fossil studies. They argue that Archaeopteryx is not a missing link between reptiles and birds--it is just an extinct bird with reptilian features. They want evolutionists to produce a weird, chimeric monster that cannot be classified as belonging to any known group. Even if a creationist does accept a fossil as transitional between two species, he or she may then insist on seeing other fossils intermediate between it and the first two. These frustrating requests can proceed ad infinitum and place an unreasonable burden on the always incomplete fossil record.

Nevertheless, evolutionists can cite further supportive evidence from molecular biology. All organisms share most of the same genes, but as evolution predicts, the structures of these genes and their products diverge among species, in keeping with their evolutionary relationships. Geneticists speak of the "molecular clock" that records the passage of time. These molecular data also show how various organisms are transitional within evolution.

SOURCE

Your source.....OH thats right the Bible.

What is it exactly that makes your God, the Abrahamic God, the "true" God? How is this the be all end all of knowledge for you?

Care to give some proof of this statement? Something other than mythology!

FOOL!!! HIS WORD IS LAW LOL


did you not read it god is the only real god because he said so.



just joking im just teasing ya TheEssenceofExcellence.

Now this is just a thought!
But what if we are one of many races that have cycled through a progression on this, planet! And what if a species has come back to worn us in a way they think would be suitable enough for us to latch onto and believe! "Christianity" or well any relgion consisting of a god! you get the point.
Anyway mabe this Divine Entity we call god is just an Alien for whom sent down a liking of him for whom we call jesus christ! to give us something to believe in!
And in the end after all this war a famin/total earth destruction!
We are wisped away in a flash 'Alien Technology"
Sounds to far fetched HUH!?
really why not the earth is billions of years old! So why couldnt there have been many of advanced species before us on this planet?

Scientists can say what they want. But i'm figuring most of what we dont know about is hidden by the government or has been destroyed through the decades so no evidence can be proven!
But it all still comes down to one thing everybody has a belief and there own opinion.

Pr 26:11
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.


Mako:
Pr 23:9
Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.

Good thinking..God could well have created evolution and watched it all work...no one can prove this theory wrong with real facts

Anyone truly interested in the topic of science proving creation should check out the Creation Evidence Museum in Glen Rose, Texas. Founded by Dr. Carl Baugh Ph.D. an atheist who set out on a mission to prove the bible wrong with science, found himself proving it right! check it out! If the stuff really interests you i definitely recommend some videos. This man shows that creation as described in the bible can be proven with science, and that the "theory" is much more sound than that of evolution.
check it out at www.creationevidence.org

Why do science and religion always have to be at war. Science should end where faith begins. They are two seperate things.

I am curious as to why religion tried to suppress science?

i am curious as to the opposite....why is so important to disprove God when most of the time science reinforces creation and God our creator?

randomhit10

Who is trying to "disprove God"?

I saw a programme in Rs at college today on this subject.

It was called "the root of all evil" Uk members may remember it, it was on last year i think. It was presented by a evolutionary scientist who was investigating how religion is causing so much chaos nowadays.

The dude went to some scary modern evangelical church in the US, and spoke to the pastor their who apparently has weekly meetings with Bush :S He was one of the most arrogant people i have ever seen! i would of loved to have had an argument with him. Basically he wouldnt listen to the scientist guy who was challenging him with the evolution theory. The pastor actually said "if u embraced the bible you would be as great as me." Its scary how closed minded people are! He then proceeded to kick them out saying that he called his people "animals" because he believed in the evolution theory. RIDICULOUS.

It actually scared me that so many people like this can ignore all the evidence that has been discovered. It looked like pure brainwashing to me.

I do admit the programme didnt exactly portray religion in a good way, and he only looked at the minority of religious extremists, but it was very interesting all the same.

This is why i am buddhist , the belief is that there is no point in dwelling on questions to do with creation or afterlife, because your never going to find out! It just is.

x

Aye, this is fact. The Bible and Science do coexist and can do so in harmony.


Job 26:7. Keep in mind that this text was written in the 15th century B.C.E. It reads: “[God] is stretching out the north over the empty place, hanging the earth upon nothing.” Next, turn to Isaiah 40:22, noting that the book of Isaiah was written in the eighth century B.C.E. This verse reads: “There is One who is dwelling above the ***circle*** of the earth

This is proven of course, and should reaffirm Gods creative powers, that, when we fly to the moon, can see that the earth hangs on nothing, and that it wis round/spherical. How'd a rather primitive scienticfic community back then hit the nail on the head without divine knowledge?

Even about the Flood that many say never happened. Anthropology sciences can back up this fact. That the Flood did happen is seen in the fact that mankind never forgot it. All around the world, in locations as far apart as Alaska and the South Sea Islands, there are ancient stories about it. Native, pre-Columbian civilizations of America, as well as Aborigines of Australia, all have stories about the Flood. While some of the accounts differ in detail, the basic fact that the earth was flooded and only a few humans were saved in a man-made vessel comes through in nearly all versions. The only explanation for such a widespread acceptance is that the Flood was a historical event

So yeah, science proves the Bible correct

The rest of Isaiah 40:22:
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Gives a different perspective
"heavens like a curtain"....."like a tent to dwell in"......you say that is like science?

I suggest you read the original Hebrew to get a better idea of what the authors was trying to say.

I apologize...i did not make this clear. i am not accusing you of trying to disprove God. i was talking about many of the others on these forums who attack God, Jesus and the entire concept of the Gospel. again, i am sorry if you took this that i was speaking about you.

randomhit10

No need to apologize

I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Do you mean the earth is said not to be round in scripture or what? As a matter of transalation, some say the sphere of the earth, others say circle

It's been a long time! Anyway, I still believe God controls the evolution, maybe humans evoluted from apes cause God made us evolute from apes.
I came to my God+evolution theory cause we have proofs of both the religious and the scientific theories.
I think I'm the only person in the world who believes in the God+evolution theory, but that's not a prob.

^You're not alone Ahuizotl. Your belief is more common than you might think, and more people are coming that conclusion every day

It is statements like this and sites like the one linked to that annoy scientists. On that site in the section marked "Scientific Evidence for Creation" it offers not one single piece of evidence for Creation at all. What it does do is offer some evidence that some of the assumptions made by other theories (mostly evolution) are wrong. This is not the same thing. Evidence against one theory does not consistute evidence for another. Think about it this way, if I provide evidence that your front door isn't green have I proved that it must be red? Clearly I haven't. The same is the case here. The claims of this site are so non-scientific as to be dishonest.

The amount of evidence for evolution keeps growing every year so that leaves only one choice for believers.....the age old excuse......God did it.

I'm nor a religious maniac, nor a science maniac. I just mixed religion and science together. I mean, why can't God have created and control evolution?
I didn't know there are more people who think like me.

Yeah really. Its amazing how many Christians get upset when you logically put things together (me being christian too). I mean if you really believe god created this universe and its laws, why can't science work along with religion which alot of people reject as a whole. People really shouldn't take the bible word for word.

And you find issue with a Creator Force behind evolution?

How is it an excuse? As we find out more and more knowledge, it's only logical for religious people to incorperate facts into their faith. If you do follow a monotheistic religion, you are usually taught that your god runs this universe.

See I believe that god created this universe, he created everything to have its own special function, and most of those functions can be explained through modern science.

Where in your bible does it say God made evolution?

Last time I looked it said God created the world.

Evidence for God: N/A

Evidence for evolution: Massive Amount

Either there is a God or there isn't. Either view is frightening. If there is a God we better find out who he is what he wants and start obeying because he is in charge and he has the right to judge his creation. If there isn't a God then we are in trouble because we are spinning around in space and no one is in charge.

The believing in evolution requires in my opinion more faith than it does to believe in creation. I have found absolutely no proof fopr evolution but I am open to talk to people about the topic because I would like to lear more.

I believe in The God of the Bible.

Yes when there is no evidence of a creator



Yet God isn't needed to support these functions

You can't prove a religion to be wrong, thats the hole point of it. The scriptures or whatever was written in a way that u can't possibly come up with a proof of God's` existence or its nonexistence. Its an faith issue. And the people who choose to believe in God or gods (in any of them) do it not because they have found they're God to be real. They do it because they have chosen to believe in something non provable.
As I have said it in one other topic, I don't believe in monotheistic Hebrew God (which actually was not monotheistic at the beginning, and was combined from three different and old hebrew gods later) nor in any other polytheistic gods. However I agree that Gods exist but only in human consciousness and avery possible link between these human gods and universe are made up.
BUT, I also believe that there might some sort of intelligence, that created the universe and I if there is one, I strongly doubt that it is in some ways similar to the human made gods. In fact, i think it is something so drastically different from any think we humans have ever experienced, that our mind would never be able to grasp it.

And for those christians that believe in Teh only GOD, don't bother with prayers. Its pretty dumb to prey ant talk with someone that lives only in ur mind...

"You cannot petition the lord with prayer!" - Jim Morrison

I'm starting to believe in the God+evolution theory...

I've always believed in your theory Ahuitloz.

What always annoys me are the Creationists who assume that anyone who is a proponent of evolution is automatically an atheist trying to destroy/disprove god. That's clearly not the case. There's some atheists, sure, but agreeing that evolution is a proven fact and that the theory of natural selection is viable does in no way automatically mean one is an atheist.

I've made my Lego parallel about evolution vs creationism several times already. The bible says god created the world. So, where does it say that god had to follow a human's rules on how that was created? If god is a GOD and therefore omnipotent, then why can't s/he/it have put down fundamental rules, like physics, thermodynamics, evolution, and natural selection, for the universe to follow? Why in the world does evolution automatically mean the absence of god and vice versa?

Interesting, what annoys me about Evolutionists is the claim that evolution has been proven. Evolutionists try to claim the high ground in the Creation vs. Evolution debate by claiming that science is on their side. the problem is that SCIENCE is what does not allow the Theory of Evolution to be proven.

The Theory of Evolution, like the Theory of Creation, is part of Origins Science. This particular branch of science is special because it's theories cannot, currently, be proven by science.

You see, by convention, scientific theories are proved or disproved through the SCIENTIFIC METHOD. The Scientific Method, requires that the scientist:

1. directly observe an event or process

2. develop questions which will help him/her focus his/her further observations

3. arrive at a hypothesis or theory based on these observations

4. conduct verifyable, independently (that is by others on their own) repeatable experiments

5. evaluate the results of the experiments

6. determine whether the results of the experiments prove or disprove the theory.

The fact we are unable to do step 1 (we can't travel back in time to the origin, so we can't observe) by itself prevents proving, but we are also unable to do step 4, so from a scientific standpoint evolution and creation hold equal footing as UNPROVABLE THEORIES.

Although there is nothing to have kept God from having allowed Creation to occur through some sort of Evolutionary process, that is not what the Bible seems to indicate to me. There are Christians who believe this same compromise between evolution and creation.

Sigh, here we go again.

For the umpteenth thousandth time, evolution is a fact that has been observed both in and out of the laboratory. The thing we are arguing about is the theory of evolution by natural selection. I can't tell you how many times I've begged people to separate the two and stop getting them confused. This is why people think evolution is bunk, because they don't actually know anything about it and what they really don't believe in is the theory of evolution by natural selection.

You may call it an excuse. But you can at least consider the possability that the creator used evolution as a means to get to the result he/she/it wanted. Assuming there is a creator. I see no reason why this is not a possability.

Yep. Catholic schools don't teach evolution for nothing.

As I've said before, I would probably say I lean towards evolution as being the method by which our species came into being. And as a Christian, I've also said i believe God was behind that. And though the evidence indicates evolution as a very probable possibility, I have yet to see a scientific study that has confirmed this. It is not fact. It is not indisputable.

For one with such vast knowledge of the Scientific Method, you don't seem to know that, in science, the word "theory" does not suggest pure conjecture. Evolution is not unprovable. There are, as previously stated in this thread, MASSIVE AMOUNTS of proof for evolution.
Show me one shred of evidence that even suggests the Theory of Evolution is false. One.